Luke Shaw

[Smirking_Saint]

Funniest thing is, not one person has said they don't rate Shaw or that Fox is a great defender. Just most have questioned the OP about how he can state that he would be better as a premiership defender without anyone seeing him play against a prem team.

Then all those questioning are either boyfriends, Fox lovers, playground bullies or sheep. Now were all pathetic because apparently we all wanted the lad to fail today.

 

He is definately a strange on

 

This isnt my favourite thread of his though, the one about Fox was an absolute classic.

[trousers]

@alex_crook: Good news for #saintsfc fans #afc target Luke Shaw says he does not want to leave St Mary's. Read tomorrow's tabloids for more from him

[Saint Garrett]

Of course he is going to say that. However I hope the club have a nice new long term contract lines up for him to sign

[CanadaSaint]

Is it my imagination or has Lallana become more responsible with his defensive role since Shaw was brought into the starting line up?

 

It's almost as though he feels a (captain's) responsibility for bringing the youngster along, and both players' games have benefitted from it.

[S-Clarke]

Is it my imagination or has Lallana become more responsible with his defensive role since Shaw was brought into the starting line up?

 

It's almost as though he feels a (captain's) responsibility for bringing the youngster along, and both players' games have benefitted from it.

 

I think Lallana looks slighty better because he has a full back who knows his position, and doesn't wander.

[Matthew Le Tissier]

It was never lallanas issue as most stated on this post. It was because he had to play 2 positions. His and the teams performances have proved this.

 

Bye bye fox

[egg]

It was never lallanas issue as most stated on this post. It was because he had to play 2 positions. His and the teams performances have proved this.

 

Bye bye fox

 

Wrong on two counts.

 

1. Shaw has played in a sIde with two holding CM's giving protection to the whole back 4 inc the full backs. Lallana has less defensive responsibility in the new set up but nonetheless appears to be doing more.

 

2. Are you seriously saying that lallana has been doubling up as left back? He rarely covered Fox in that position, and certainly didn't fill in there.

[tajjuk]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4669141/Luke-Shaw-I-wont-quit-Southampton.html

 

Good to hear, maybe the experiences of Theo, and to a lesser extent Bale and Chamberlain are starting to show these youngsters that rushing off to a big club to play in the reserves isn't the best idea.

 

Hopefully we will get him signed up with a big contract.

[Thedelldays]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4669141/Luke-Shaw-I-wont-quit-Southampton.html

 

Good to hear, maybe the experiences of Theo, and to a lesser extent Bale and Chamberlain are starting to show these youngsters that rushing off to a big club to play in the reserves isn't the best idea.

 

Hopefully we will get him signed up with a big contract.

 

If anything. Those 3 show it was right to move.

 

Odd

[shirleysfc]

It was never lallanas issue as most stated on this post. It was because he had to play 2 positions. His and the teams performances have proved this.

 

Bye bye fox

 

Shaw has been caught out of position, the difference is he has the pace to recover. So far he's played against 3 fairly week teams, let's hope he's still looking good after facing Suarez, Sterling and co this weekend.

 

I certainly don't want the kid to fail but I wouldn't be calling him up to the England squad just yet.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

If anything. Those 3 show it was right to move.

 

Odd

 

As we weren't a prem side at the time, of course it was right. However, had we been a prem side, all 3 could arguably have done with a few seasons playing for us before moving on. Can't help but feel that Theo in particular is not fulfilling his promise. Shaw is surely better off learning his trade with us than going to a top 5 club and sitting on the bench?

[tajjuk]

If anything. Those 3 show it was right to move.

 

Odd

 

How exactly, Theo in particular spent a lot of time not playing football when he was at a crucial period where he needed to be playing regularly to develop his game.

 

He's not the player people expect him to be when he first broke onto the scene.

 

Bale also struggled for appearances his first two seasons.

[hypochondriac]

Woops wrong thread.

[The Kraken]

How exactly, Theo in particular spent a lot of time not playing football when he was at a crucial period where he needed to be playing regularly to develop his game.

 

He's not the player people expect him to be when he first broke onto the scene.

 

Bale also struggled for appearances his first two seasons.

 

Despite not playing for Arsenal's first team, Theo got picked in a world cup squad. Even if we were in the PL, would that have happened?? It was an enormous career progression that staying with us would not have achieved.

 

You have a point with Bale; he was playing for Wales anyway and initially struggled at Spurs.

 

Ox is similar to Theo; after his transfer he was accelerated through the U21s to the full side, with only a handful of first team appearances. Very doubtful that would have happened at Saints.

 

JWP is a great example; he's played a few first team games and looked right at home against the top sides. Yet he's not yet knocking on the door of even the U21s, he's still amongst the England junior sides. Its sadly too often that a "big" side player will much more readily be called up for England and therefore have a quicker career path to the top than those that stay at smaller clubs.

[The Kraken]

As we weren't a prem side at the time' date=' of course it was right. However, had we been a prem side, all 3 could arguably have done with a few seasons playing for us before moving on. Can't help but feel that Theo in particular is not fulfilling his promise. Shaw is surely better off learning his trade with us than going to a top 5 club and sitting on the bench?[/quote']

 

I maintain Theo is not playing in his natural position; he's not a winger. And I don't think he ever will be one, he's a very instinctive striker and that's where efforts should have been made to develop him IMO. Not too late yet, but arsenal have missed a trick I feel.

[shirleysfc]

Clyne plays every week and is good enough for England U21 so gets picked.

 

JWP is forth choice CM, has barely played in weeks and isn't good enough for England U21 (at the moment) so doesn't get picked.

 

It's fairly simple unless you're a conspiracy nut!!

[shirleysfc]

We need to re sign Theo, Bale and Oxo. That is all.

 

And Messi, Xavi and Kompany!!

[tajjuk]

Despite not playing for Arsenal's first team, Theo got picked in a world cup squad. Even if we were in the PL, would that have happened?? It was an enormous career progression that staying with us would not have achieved.

 

You have a point with Bale; he was playing for Wales anyway and initially struggled at Spurs.

 

Ox is similar to Theo; after his transfer he was accelerated through the U21s to the full side, with only a handful of first team appearances. Very doubtful that would have happened at Saints.

 

JWP is a great example; he's played a few first team games and looked right at home against the top sides. Yet he's not yet knocking on the door of even the U21s, he's still amongst the England junior sides. Its sadly too often that a "big" side player will much more readily be called up for England and therefore have a quicker career path to the top than those that stay at smaller clubs.

 

Yeh he did, but for a 16 year old considered good enough for England, at now 23 and with 7 years to develop he's not really progressed that much from when he played for us, certainly not as much as people expected him to have.

 

Moving from us as a championship or league 1 team to the premiership is fair enough, but in hindsight they would have been better moving to a more mid-table/lower premiership team for a few years and getting regular games.

 

Oxlaide-Chamberlain is maybe a bit different because he broke into the Arsenal team pretty much straight away, but both Walcott and Bale went from playing every week to a handful of appearances and it both took them a little while to recover from this.

 

This is hopefully what Shaw and JWP realise and they will stick with us for a bit longer.

[hypochondriac]

I doubt Bale has any regrets. It has hardly impeded his development.

[Saint Garrett]

Look at Gaston, he could have joined a top team, but didn't think he would play. He knows he's young and learning and he's much better playing week in week out for us than 10 minutes off the bench for a top side. If these young players are good enough, then they will get their move to the big stage.

[Saint86]

Wow, a civil and interesting debate. Good work ladies. I take my hat of to u x

[hypochondriac]

Look at Gaston, he could have joined a top team, but didn't think he would play. He knows he's young and learning and he's much better playing week in week out for us than 10 minutes off the bench for a top side. If these young players are good enough, then they will get their move to the big stage.

 

Didn't he say something along the lines of I had to sign they are paying me so much money?

[The Kraken]

Yeh he did, but for a 16 year old considered good enough for England, at now 23 and with 7 years to develop he's not really progressed that much from when he played for us, certainly not as much as people expected him to have.

 

Moving from us as a championship or league 1 team to the premiership is fair enough, but in hindsight they would have been better moving to a more mid-table/lower premiership team for a few years and getting regular games.

 

Bale is the only one I could say that for. If Theo can't develop at a top class side like Arsenal, I don't see why staying with a side like us would be monumentally better for him. Perhaps he over-achieved as a youngster and this is actually close to his natural level? In any case he has maximised his career opportunities by going to Arsenal when he did, without doubt.

 

Oxlade-Chamberlain is maybe a bit different because he broke into the Arsenal team pretty much straight away, but both Walcott and Bale went from playing every week to a handful of appearances and it both took them a little while to recover from this.

 

This is hopefully what Shaw and JWP realise and they will stick with us for a bit longer.

 

As I'm sure you know; footballers will naturally think less about their development as a player when moving clubs, and more about how much money they will earn, their chances of playing for a side that will win things, their chances of playing on the European stage, and their chances of getting noticed to play for their country (particularly if they're English). Shaw and JWP seem switched on, and while they're still on the fringes of the team or just breaking through they're only attracting a modicum of attention. Lets see what happens in summer; we all know that when the big boys come in with a determined offer there's very little that most clubs can do about that, let alone one of our size. We may think its better for them to stay; the power of money and all those other factors so often outweigh all that. We'll see.

[The Kraken]

Look at Gaston, he could have joined a top team, but didn't think he would play. He knows he's young and learning and he's much better playing week in week out for us than 10 minutes off the bench for a top side. If these young players are good enough, then they will get their move to the big stage.

 

Which top teams came in with a bid for him that was acceptable to Bologna?

[Greenridge]

Which top teams came in with a bid for him that was acceptable to Bologna?

 

You'd have to ask the Bologna Chairman or Gaston's agent.

[The Kraken]

You'd have to ask the Bologna Chairman or Gaston's agent.

 

Well I wouldn't, I'm not the one making the claim he could have joined a top team. Unless anyone can provide evidence to the contrary, I'm happy to suggest/believe that Saints were the only side to come in with an acceptable bid.

[hutch]

Look at Gaston, he could have joined a top team, ...

He did

[tajjuk]

Bale is the only one I could say that for. If Theo can't develop at a top class side like Arsenal, I don't see why staying with a side like us would be monumentally better for him. Perhaps he over-achieved as a youngster and this is actually close to his natural level? In any case he has maximised his career opportunities by going to Arsenal when he did, without doubt.

 

 

 

As I'm sure you know; footballers will naturally think less about their development as a player when moving clubs, and more about how much money they will earn, their chances of playing for a side that will win things, their chances of playing on the European stage, and their chances of getting noticed to play for their country (particularly if they're English). Shaw and JWP seem switched on, and while they're still on the fringes of the team or just breaking through they're only attracting a modicum of attention. Lets see what happens in summer; we all know that when the big boys come in with a determined offer there's very little that most clubs can do about that, let alone one of our size. We may think its better for them to stay; the power of money and all those other factors so often outweigh all that. We'll see.

 

I disagree about Theo I think his progress stalled at Arsenal and that has prevented him from becoming a top level player. He's a good player and an international, but with his talent he should be a better player than he is.

 

I'm not saying he should have stayed with us, we were in the championship and the club wasn;t that stable at the time, but a move to say an Everton or a Villa at the time I think would have benefitted him a lot more than his low appearances for Arsenal as he would have played a lot more, at 18,19, 20 players that play week in week out develop a lot quicker than those that don't. Maybe Arsenal should have loaned him out for a season or two like they did with Wilshere.

 

I'm more applying this thinking to where JWP and Shaw are now, with us currently they will get far more first team opportunities against top players and teams and in the long run this will make them better players than making an early move to a Man Utd or Arsenal where they appearances will be limited and they might have to fill in a position where they don't want to play.

 

You are correct though, they arent established in our team yet and not fully hitting the headlines. If Man Utd or Arsenal or Chelsea come knocking we will then see their resolve to develop with us tested.

[Saint Garrett]

Ok well I am not ITK so I can't prove that, but didn't he turn down a move to another Italian side last summer, and also Liverpool and Spurs were heavily linked. Probably something to dowith money, and also something to do with us building the team around him.

 

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/165563.html

 

 

Southampton have had a bid of €15 million accepted for Bologna winger Gaston Ramirez, beating off competition from Liverpool and Tottenham.

 

Uruguay international Ramirez, who was part of the Olympic squad, turned down a move to Tottenham but appears to be keen on a move to the South Coast in a stunning move for the newly promoted side.

 

Ramirez told Corriere Dello Sport: "They believe in me in every way... and above all I have said that they are going to grow. Southampton is a newly promoted team in the English top flight, but they have the means to stand tall in a few years. And with me they are going to build. It's all very stimulating. Even if it is a little strange."

 

The 21-year-old scored eight goals in 28 apperances in Serie A last season and revealed that he was offered a deal that was too hard to refuse.

 

"The truth? I think so, yes, this time," he said when asked if he was about to leave. "Bologna have reached an economic agreement with Southampton. There are only a few details to sort out, but they have found the agreement in principle, and the English club have reached an agreement with me.

 

"It is an offer that you cannot refuse. They will give me so much money (€2 million net per year and more than €1 million signing-on fee)."

 

Nicola Cortese, executive chairman of Southampton, is believed to have been key in bringing the youngster to the club from Italy.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

On the subject of Bale, I think he seriously needs to consider moving on. He's too good for Spurs. Are the rumours Barca are interested true? Can see Fergie being interested - Man U are crying out for a player like him.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Also, does anybody know if we have a sell on clause for Bale? Seem to remember us doing something begging for early payments when we were heading towards admin? Or was that Walcott?

[The Kraken]

Also' date=' does anybody know if we have a sell on clause for Bale? Seem to remember us doing something begging for early payments when we were heading towards admin? Or was that Walcott?[/quote']

 

We lost all sell on clauses when we cashed in on the players early on.

[Miltonaggro]

On the subject of Bale' date=' I think he seriously needs to consider moving on. He's too good for Spurs. Are the rumours Barca are interested true? Can see Fergie being interested - Man U are crying out for a player like him.[/quote']

 

Me too, and think he would thrive there - Giggs' replacement...