eelpie Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 So many of us have been pleading for a defence coach, but do we have one here already in Jason Dodd? Before I am shouted down, I know his short spell in joint charge of the team after Burley left was not exactly successful (when he was a relatively inexperienced coach) but he is doing an excellent job with the youth squad, and he was an excellent battling defender for Saints in his time. He must surely have a lot of views about the mistakes being made by our current back four (and midfielders). He has proved himself as a strong motivator with the under 18's and has learned a lot about coaching. Could he make the difference and teach and install better battling and positional defending skills with the first team if he were appointed first team defence coach working with Adkins? Views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 We certainly have defensive minded people at the club in Dodd/Jaidi and Crosby. Surprised we aren't using them to help the defence out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Ever thought that the problem might be the quality of the defenders, rather than the coaching? As Gary Neville was saying on Monday - they're getting in the right positions but making individual mistakes. You can't coach that out of someone, they're just not good enough. Our defence was shaky at best in the NPC, getting properly found out now. Simple as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 I was at the match, but Davie Provan's comment in the first couple of minutes about West Brom certainly having more protection for their defenders with Mulumbu and Yacob in front of them was probably the post pertinent thing I've heard on Sky's broadcast so far, having revisited the first 51 minutes yesterday. Watching it back, Mulumbu was fantastic, and there were a few occasions where he either got back or sat back, and cut out passes to our strikers near the box which if it had been the other way around would have necessitated our CBs breaking shape to close down the striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Ever thought that the problem might be the quality of the defenders, rather than the coaching? As Gary Neville was saying on Monday - they're getting in the right positions but making individual mistakes. You can't coach that out of someone, they're just not good enough. Our defence was shaky at best in the NPC, getting properly found out now. Simple as. Quality is something we can't improve on (well not until the tx window) but organisation certainly can be improved (marking, holding the line, cover etc.). Not sure Dodd is the answer though we need somebody that has played and/or coached in PL in the last 3 or 4 years IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Ever thought that the problem might be the quality of the defenders, rather than the coaching? As Gary Neville was saying on Monday - they're getting in the right positions but making individual mistakes. You can't coach that out of someone, they're just not good enough. Our defence was shaky at best in the NPC, getting properly found out now. Simple as. Exactly. Except having quoted Neville reasonably accurately you said the defenders arenot good enough. That's your view not what Phil said. The other relevant quote in recent times is from Fat Sam who said this was basically the same defence that got the win last season. So it's not about skill - its's about confidence. When confidence is fragile you apply pressure and they panic. As you say - you can't coach them out of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 We certainly have defensive minded people at the club in Dodd/Jaidi and Crosby. Surprised we aren't using them to help the defence out. you can probably add Butterfield to that list as I would imagine he will offer advice and opinion. My guess is they are all being used, but it's not strictly a back four issue, the defeat on Monday showed that ever position on the pitch is failing to do its job and that has a knock on effect defensively. Attacker and midfielders giving the ball away cheaply leads to pressure, which leads to chances, mistakes and goals conceded. Lambert, Ramirez or whoever making the right choice when we have the ball can ensure we keep it and that could mean one less attack to defend against. Dodd tell Fox he should get tighter won't revolutionise our defensive performances as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 would dodd..or a whoever manage to get adkins for stop being so gung ho..? THAT is the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 I was at the match, but Davie Provan's comment in the first couple of minutes about West Brom certainly having more protection for their defenders with Mulumbu and Yacob in front of them was probably the post pertinent thing I've heard on Sky's broadcast so far, having revisited the first 51 minutes yesterday. Watching it back, Mulumbu was fantastic, and there were a few occasions where he either got back or sat back, and cut out passes to our strikers near the box which if it had been the other way around would have necessitated our CBs breaking shape to close down the striker. I posted on the match thread he is exactly the sort of player we need. £175k!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
student Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 The problem for me isnt really the defense. Its that the CMs are too negative and get bypassed both offensively and defensively leaving the full backs needing to cover more ground to create and the CBs to give the ball away by hoofing over the top due to no options. So you need two midfielders who can retain the ball but also fill in when the other one tries to press up the field. Cork will certainly help this because he can cover clynes runs. You just need pace out wide and the ball keepers in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Our defence was shaky at best in the NPC, getting properly found out now. Simple as. Our "shaky" defence in the NPC had the 2nd highest number of clean sheets in that league, Reading had two more than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 I was at the match, but Davie Provan's comment in the first couple of minutes about West Brom certainly having more protection for their defenders with Mulumbu and Yacob in front of them was probably the post pertinent thing I've heard on Sky's broadcast so far, having revisited the first 51 minutes yesterday. Watching it back, Mulumbu was fantastic, and there were a few occasions where he either got back or sat back, and cut out passes to our strikers near the box which if it had been the other way around would have necessitated our CBs breaking shape to close down the striker. This is the key. We need somebody who can do that job defending properly from midfield. All our midfielders are hopeless defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 (edited) So many of us have been pleading for a defence coach, but do we have one here already in Jason Dodd? Before I am shouted down, I know his short spell in joint charge of the team after Burley left was not exactly successful (when he was a relatively inexperienced coach) but he is doing an excellent job with the youth squad, and he was an excellent battling defender for Saints in his time. He must surely have a lot of views about the mistakes being made by our current back four (and midfielders). He has proved himself as a strong motivator with the under 18's and has learned a lot about coaching. Could he make the difference and teach and install better battling and positional defending skills with the first team if he were appointed first team defence coach working with Adkins? Views? I don't think any reasonable person would shout you down, and much of what you wrote is generally agreed, .........but Dodd (example) whilst being a good defender himself ..isn't managing a team (U18) that faces Prem. strikers every game....and I don't believe that you can throw in people here and there just because they once had a good career themselves. I'm sure that MLT has a better record / knowledge of how to take penalties and free kicks ...but like Dodd... not everyone has his in-born skill. Nigel Adkins had been a VERY successful manager... until August of this year....I believe he is a great motivator - even in these dark times - but many of the players he's working with now, (whilst being good in the last couple of years)... have really found their level ...and it isn't the Premier League. We must soldier on and get some top class defenders in January ..perhaps not so young ...or world class.....but tall, tough S.O.Bs who can stop strikers properly before they do the damage. and EVEN IMHO ..yet another goalkeeper.. preferably the best we can find. Those we have have tried their utmost....but none of them has distinguished themself behind some poor defenders. Edited 7 November, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Hmm WBA worked for each other, and had adequate protection for the back four, Mulumbu was very good I thought, he was everywhere, very impressed as not only was he imposing and good in the tackle but had good feet and a decent pass. We looked the opposite, not really working for each other and seemingly shying away from the ball instead of wanting it, a sign that we are low on confidence. It certainly didnt help that we play so open either, we looked more solid with 3 in the middle and but conceeded from set pieces back then. Playing 4 attacking players is suicide TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Not a defensive coach needed but a midfield coach to teach midfield players their defensive duties, as Gary Neville said nothing wrong with shape just individual mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Ever thought that the problem might be the quality of the defenders, rather than the coaching? As Gary Neville was saying on Monday - they're getting in the right positions but making individual mistakes. You can't coach that out of someone, they're just not good enough. Our defence was shaky at best in the NPC, getting properly found out now. Simple as. I think the midfield has a lot to answer for as well. They put the defence under pressure by either losing the ball cheaply or attacking as forward 6 (7/8 when full backs involved) leaving us exposed to break aways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kirkup Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Not a defensive coach needed but a midfield coach to teach midfield players their defensive duties' date=' as Gary Neville said nothing wrong with shape just individual mistakes.[/quote'] This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Our "shaky" defence in the NPC had the 2nd highest number of clean sheets in that league, Reading had two more than us. I can't be arsed to look it up, but I bet we had one of the highest totals in the goals conceded column for an automatically promoted team to the Prem. Our defence WAS shaky last season, and CLEARLY needed strengthening to be able to compete in the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 I can't be arsed to look it up, but I bet we had one of the highest totals in the goals conceded column for an automatically promoted team to the Prem. Our defence WAS shaky last season, and CLEARLY needed strengthening to be able to compete in the Premier League. I agree with the bit in bold but the rest of the statement is rubbish. We conceded 46 goals in 46 games. Several teams have been promoted in the last 10 years conceding more than 50 and Burnley when they went up, conceded 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Doddisalegend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le Tissier Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Good idea but also I'm at the same opinion "you can't polish a turd" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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