Dangermouth Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 I seem to remember the first interview/piece I read on NC went like this. "NC arrived at SFC and looked at the trophy cabinet. 'Where are they?', he asked. 'That's it.' said someone pointing to a plastic replica cup. 'We'll have to change that' said NC" Ofc he's interested in 'yo-yoing', just as in his career as a Swiss Banker he was interested in losing money and hugging trees.... Is it now the case that people simply can't read any more? I know there is a huge amount of people picking on 3 words of someone's argument and trying to make a clever point, and that's not the WUMs, but actually having a bit of a clue when there actually is information out there or 'listening' properly to someone on what is called a 'mong spazzboard' might actually mean this forum is less mong and spazz and more like TSF (as was, unless I've forgotten the name of it now). As to the kit; if they paid for it let em suffer in it while we go back to the proper kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangermouth Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 ---------------------------- Gazza -------------------------------- Clyne ----------Yoshida --------------- Hooiveld -------------- Shaw --------- Cork ---------- Schneiderlin ------------- Fox ----------- ------------------ Ramirez --------- Lallana------------------------ -------------------------- Lambert -------------------------------- Although ****e in defence, I think Fox would give good support to Shaw and he gets to the bye line and crosses a lot more than Lallana. Have my doubts about Morgan at the moment, we really need a ball winner in the centre. Hopefully Cork will fill that role. Actually not a bad idea: the Fox/Shaw thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Minor updates to Monday's nights team -------- Boruc -------- Clyne - Fonte - Yosh - Fox ------- Morgan -------- Puncheon - Ramirez - Lallana ------ Lambert --------- --------- Mayuka ------ This would be a good starting line-up - HOWEVER - it just will not happen. And frankly if anyone thinks Swansea are going to be anything other than a huge challenge to overcome, think again...there is every likelyhood that we will lose this. Score : 2-2 at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 You two clowns really take the biscuit. You show no real understanding of even an elementary level of tactics/formations involved in blending a team, yet you criticise and belittle a team formation that has been successfully used for years. Gary Neville said that about an instant in time, then went on to hammer Schneiderlin, the same for the second goal and at the end descibed WBA as efficient and criticised our formation by saying he didn't understand what we were trying to do. As for a front sweeper, how you can criticise the concept when you then demonstrate that you don't even understand what the player does by talking about covering the full backs. The front sweeper covers across the whole width of the pitch and is either the first defender to try and block an attack or the first player to slot in and cover the first back four player that commits to block an attack leaving the defence compact. He also drops in behind as the circumstances dictate to cover for any gap that could occurr without the extra defender. Schneiderlin doesn't cover anyone neither does Davis but a proper defender or a proper defensive midfielder would, allowing for more attack minded midfielders which Schneiderlin and Davis aren't either. Maybe you should learn a bit about the game before you start pontificating about something you clearly know little about. With respect, managing at a semi pro level doesn't give you the ability/right to shout down others. I've played at that level and understand the game but welcome the views of others. I suspect that many people who have never kicked a ball understand the game better than you and I. As for your 505 formation, I think it's bonkers. Our weak midfield and lack of proper cover for the full backs, is the root of our problems. Sticking a CB in an unfamiliar role in front of the CB 's and expecting him to float and cover is a recipe for disaster. It leaves a player scampering crab like across the pitch for 90 mins with attackers filling in the midfield positions. Nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Actually not a bad idea: the Fox/Shaw thing. Daniel Fox the new Chris Marsden! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 With respect, managing at a semi pro level doesn't give you the ability/right to shout down others. I've played at that level and understand the game but welcome the views of others. I suspect that many people who have never kicked a ball understand the game better than you and I. As for your 505 formation, I think it's bonkers. Our weak midfield and lack of proper cover for the full backs, is the root of our problems. Sticking a CB in an unfamiliar role in front of the CB 's and expecting him to float and cover is a recipe for disaster. It leaves a player scampering crab like across the pitch for 90 mins with attackers filling in the midfield positions. Nuts. It's not 505 FFS, it's 4123 and Ramirez played as the midfield playmaker for Uruguay in his last match and Lallana has played there for us this season. And as for a front sweeper, if you've never experienced it why comment. I've used it very successfully to do precisely what I'm advocating here. And as for having never kicked a ball and understanding the game, where did you get that nonsense from. With that sort of thinking they might as well scrap coaching courses, I obviously wasted my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 It's not 505 FFS, it's 4123 and Ramirez played as the midfield playmaker for Uruguay in his last match and Lallana has played there for us this season. And as for a front sweeper, if you've never experienced it why comment. I've used it very successfully to do precisely what I'm advocating here. And as for having never kicked a ball and understanding the game, where did you get that nonsense from. With that sort of thinking they might as well scrap coaching courses, I obviously wasted my time. Never experienced it, I've played it! It can work with disciplined midfielders but won't work with attack minded players. As for 4123 or 505 they're one and the same when you're playing 5 defenders and five attackers. Ridiculous team selection whatever you call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 Never experienced it, I've played it! It can work with disciplined midfielders but won't work with attack minded players. As for 4123 or 505 they're one and the same when you're playing 5 defenders and five attackers. Ridiculous team selection whatever you call it. After watching us getting ripped apart by poor covering and inept defending, watching us change from one formation to another and still not working, I'd still be surprised if we do anything different against Swansea. If teams increase the number of defenders it usually stops goals at both ends but rarely changes the results just less goals. The existing CMs neither defend or attack and Ramirez is a much better player than Davis and so is Lallana. This was my opinion but like everything on this site plenty criticism for original thinking and loads of lineups that don't blend, just shuffling the pack. I'm not saying it would work or that we have anybody that is ideally suited but we have hardly been successful with our team selections to date. 28 goals is a lot of goals in 10 matches. I think the attacking players may well keep the opponents busy and take some of the pressure off the defence by being more direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 7 November, 2012 Share Posted 7 November, 2012 It's not 505 FFS, it's 4123 and Ramirez played as the midfield playmaker for Uruguay in his last match and Lallana has played there for us this season. And as for a front sweeper, if you've never experienced it why comment. I've used it very successfully to do precisely what I'm advocating here. And as for having never kicked a ball and understanding the game, where did you get that nonsense from. With that sort of thinking they might as well scrap coaching courses, I obviously wasted my time. If the best you've got to offer is a 505 formation to help us shore up our defence I'd suggest that maybe you did waste your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callysaint76 Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 A lot of your formations are far too attacking. You can't have Gaston and Lallana in a team as neither track back enough or have any pace. Team that we need to go for.... Gazzaniga Clyne Fonte Yoshida Fox Cork Morgan Davis Ramirez Mayuka Lambert Pace on both wings from Clyne one side and Mayuka the other side. Defence wouldn’t get as exposed because Cork and Morgan would be there and Lambert would have both speed (mayuka) and skill (Ramirez) supporting him! Then Lallana (who has been poor, West Ham goal aside) off the bench for one of the midfield 3 if it isn’t going to plan, to go more attacking. Jay Rod for Lambert when he tires..easy! The pace of Mayuka is crucial to stretch the opposing defence and make space for Lambert and Gaston. This formation means that Cork will cover Gaston when he wonders as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 There is only one way to solve this, MLG, get football manager out, there's going to be a network game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 @solentsport: Nigel Adkins will take his squad away for two days to change environment ahead of Swansea game #saintsfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 @officialsaints: Nigel Adkins: "I've changed things around, so we're going to take the team away for a couple of days for a different stimulus." #saintsfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 If I do **** at work I don't get taken on holiday!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 @solentsport: Nigel Adkins will take his squad away for two days to change environment ahead of Swansea game #saintsfc Good idea, could just do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 @solentsport: Nigel Adkins will take his squad away for two days to change environment ahead of Swansea game #saintsfc They can go on any short breaks they want. It's not going to change much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 @officialsaints: Nigel: "We're in a relegation dogfight, and we're fighting. We've got four points at the moment - that's not enough." #saintsfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 @officialsaints: Adkins says the 'thorough' investigation into Artur Boruc has now been concluded, and the goalkeeper is back in contention. #saintsfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 @officialsaints: Nigel: "We're in a relegation dogfight, and we're fighting. We've got four points at the moment - that's not enough." #saintsfc Could have fooled me. Not a lot of fight in that last performance. Hope we can recapture the second half of spurs for an entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 They can go on any short breaks they want. It's not going to change much. It's a good idea, gets the team together more, change of scenery etc. My main worry for this game is that Swansea will just sit back and soak up the pressure and just destroy us on the counter attack so I think we need a midfield with that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 It's a good idea, gets the team together more, change of scenery etc. My main worry for this game is that Swansea will just sit back and soak up the pressure and just destroy us on the counter attack so I think we need a midfield with that in mind. I'm not sure it's our togetherness that is the problem though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 I'm not sure it's our togetherness that is the problem though. It is one of the many problems I think. Our team doesn't particularly look like a 'team' does it. However, it's not going to help improve how good our defence is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 Get them down Butlins for a good **** up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 If the best you've got to offer is a 505 formation to help us shore up our defence I'd suggest that maybe you did waste your time. As I said 4123, which is basically a 433 which during a game can become 451 or any combination of it. Argentina won the world cup playing it with five attack minded players (4123), Mourinho played it at Chelsea albeit with Makelele in front of the back four, Essien and Lampard as the carrileros with Robben. Drogba and Duff. Roma amongst others played it. Other international teams have also used it. We don't have a competent defensive midfielder but we do have a couple of mobile centre backs (Yoshida was a midfielder) who probably could do the job. Either way as defenders, Lallana, Davis and Schneiderlin leave us wide open. Some of the best managers in the world have used it with defenders in front of the back four and you had no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 As I said 4123, which is basically a 433 which during a game can become 451 or any combination of it. Argentina won the world cup playing it with five attack minded players (4123), Mourinho played it at Chelsea albeit with Makelele in front of the back four, Essien and Lampard as the carrileros with Robben. Drogba and Duff. Roma amongst others played it. Other international teams have also used it. We don't have a competent defensive midfielder but we do have a couple of mobile centre backs (Yoshida was a midfielder) who probably could do the job. Either way as defenders, Lallana, Davis and Schneiderlin leave us wide open. Some of the best managers in the world have used it with defenders in front of the back four and you had no idea. Who are our poor-man's version of Essien and Lampard? In their heyday, they were genuinely box-to-box and would get back and cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 4123 is essentially what we played Vs Man Utd, with Morgan in that role in front of the back four and he was absolutely outstanding in that game. I just think we need to have a few options, but it can't help that we're changing formation so regularly. You suggesting a 505 won't help things, it will just cause more problems. And your arguement of it being more of a 4123 is wrong, as Lallana and Ramirez aren't capable of playing in a midfield 2. They'll go missing and essentially our team will be split into 5 defenders, and 5 attackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 I'm not sure it's our togetherness that is the problem though. I think it is, did anyone see early in the first half when Gaston cut in from the right and then laid the ball to the edge of the box but Lambert, Jay rod and Lallana had all run in, he (Gaston) smashed his arms down in annoyance. Remember we have quite a few new faces in the first team this year compared to last (Ramirez, Clyne, Yoshida, Mayuka, Davis, Boruc) some who came in very late, add in the young lads being involved more, and previous regular members like Hammond, Harding not being there, a few international breaks and the injuries the squad doesn't look very together to me. I also think up until maybe this week I got the feeling the squad thinks they weren't relegation fodder (maybe overconfidence from two years of constant winning?), and they are only now starting to realise they are all in a battle so some time away for the whole squad to do some self reflection will be good for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 As I said 4123, which is basically a 433 which during a game can become 451 or any combination of it. Argentina won the world cup playing it with five attack minded players (4123), Mourinho played it at Chelsea albeit with Makelele in front of the back four, Essien and Lampard as the carrileros with Robben. Drogba and Duff. Roma amongst others played it. Other international teams have also used it. We don't have a competent defensive midfielder but we do have a couple of mobile centre backs (Yoshida was a midfielder) who probably could do the job. Either way as defenders, Lallana, Davis and Schneiderlin leave us wide open. Some of the best managers in the world have used it with defenders in front of the back four and you had no idea. Er, so you're saying one of our CB's and GR and AL can do for us what Makelel, Essien and Lampard did for Chelsea? Ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 Who are our poor-man's version of Essien and Lampard? In their heyday, they were genuinely box-to-box and would get back and cover. True but Ardiles and Kempes were attackers. I had thought initially Schneiderlin and Davis but they are so negative, poor in defence, I thought sod it just put in our best player who is an international midfielder and give Lallana another chance. It doesn't mean just attack, the front three and middle two still have to track back(451) as they do now but if they get it wrong there is an added defender to cover. Just look at the way Schneiderlin and Lallana defended for that first goal, and it happens all the time, we have to find a way of defending better and we aren't going to get Davis, Schneiderlin, Lallana etc suddenly becoming competent or Fox not getting caught out. I don't like it any more than you do but we have to stop leaking goals but still be able to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 Er, so you're saying one of our CB's and GR and AL can do for us what Makelel, Essien and Lampard did for Chelsea? Ffs. No I'm not and I did say 'albeit' but Davis and Schneiderlin won't, Ramirez and Lallana can carry the ball and Yosida or Fonte could probably be the defensive midfielder until we get a proper defensive midfielder. A compromise but letting in shedloads of goals isn't going to keep us up, nor are the existing midfielders going to suddenly change, and close down competently. It's a sad choice, more of the same or do something different. Shuffling the names is just shuffling the names it won't change the porous defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 I'm not sure it's our togetherness that is the problem though. Its not. They are all sh*t - together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 I think it is, did anyone see early in the first half when Gaston cut in from the right and then laid the ball to the edge of the box but Lambert, Jay rod and Lallana had all run in, he (Gaston) smashed his arms down in annoyance. Remember we have quite a few new faces in the first team this year compared to last (Ramirez, Clyne, Yoshida, Mayuka, Davis, Boruc) some who came in very late, add in the young lads being involved more, and previous regular members like Hammond, Harding not being there, a few international breaks and the injuries the squad doesn't look very together to me. I also think up until maybe this week I got the feeling the squad thinks they weren't relegation fodder (maybe overconfidence from two years of constant winning?), and they are only now starting to realise they are all in a battle so some time away for the whole squad to do some self reflection will be good for them. The penny may have dropped all round. The Chairman suddenly aware passing isn't getting points, the manager and staff on borrowed time unless points are won, the players looking at being shipped out in due course. I'm not sure about the change in environment unless there is a major change in the way we play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 (edited) 4123 is essentially what we played Vs Man Utd, with Morgan in that role in front of the back four and he was absolutely outstanding in that game. I just think we need to have a few options, but it can't help that we're changing formation so regularly. You suggesting a 505 won't help things, it will just cause more problems. And your arguement of it being more of a 4123 is wrong, as Lallana and Ramirez aren't capable of playing in a midfield 2. They'll go missing and essentially our team will be split into 5 defenders, and 5 attackers. Read Derry's post. he is suggesting 4-1-2-3 not 5-0-5. The question is, could Lallana and Ramirez be our carrileros? For those who haven't done a coaching badge (I have FA Level 1 but this didn't come up) the definition is below: Carilleros Literally ’shuttlers’, this refers to the two widest players in a diamond midfield, inbetween a holding midfielder and an attacking playmaker. Now, IMO this role isn't for Ramirez or Lallana, as they are the attacking midfielders - not sure we have the personnel for a "shuttler" role? Also - within the 4-1-2-3 Mayuka and Jay Rod out would be Mezzalas for me. Edited 8 November, 2012 by Saint Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 Derry, instead of this sweeping defender crabbing along our 18 yard box, how about a "back striker" crabbing along the oppos 18 yard box instead? Something like the below: ....................Davis.......JWP..........Morgan............... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .....................Gaston...........Lambert..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 Derry, instead of this sweeping defender crabbing along our 18 yard box, how about a "back striker" crabbing along the oppos 18 yard box instead? Something like the below: ....................Davis.......JWP..........Morgan............... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .....................Gaston...........Lambert..................... Pretty sure that role is usually referred to as the no 10, which Gaston is made for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 Pretty sure that role is usually referred to as the no 10, which Gaston is made for. Maybe Lallana should patrol the area in front of Lambert and Gaston? Celta Vigo played it successfully in 1985. Can't believe you didn't know this:facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 Read Derry's post. he is suggesting 4-1-2-3 not 5-0-5. The question is, could Lallana and Ramirez be our carrileros? For those who haven't done a coaching badge (I have FA Level 1 but this didn't come up) the definition is below: Carilleros Literally ’shuttlers’, this refers to the two widest players in a diamond midfield, inbetween a holding midfielder and an attacking playmaker. Now, IMO this role isn't for Ramirez or Lallana, as they are the attacking midfielders - not sure we have the personnel for a "shuttler" role? Also - within the 4-1-2-3 Mayuka and Jay Rod out would be Mezzalas for me. This might be a literal translation but not tied to a diamond. Ardiles and Kempes both attacking players played behind Bertini, Luque and Ortiz, Essien and Lampard were totally different, all round international midfielders, but played behind Drogba there was no attacking playmaker in either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 Derry, instead of this sweeping defender crabbing along our 18 yard box, how about a "back striker" crabbing along the oppos 18 yard box instead? Something like the below: ....................Davis.......JWP..........Morgan............... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .....................Gaston...........Lambert..................... As long as it stops us conceding goals, not sure it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 And we'd have f-all width. We'll play 2 defensive midfielders, one roaming in front, 2 wider players and 1 up top. It works for plenty of other teams so no reason why it can't with us. Only problem is neither of our CM's are 'bruisers'. They're both quite happy with the ball and passing it about but not particularly great when they need to get stuck in. -----Morgan --- Cork------ Mayuka---Gaston---Lallana ----------J-Rod----------- Is probably the best we have at the moment. Maybe Guly/Punch/Lambert could be swapped in but thats how we're going to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 (edited) This might be a literal translation but not tied to a diamond. Ardiles and Kempes both attacking players played behind Bertini, Luque and Ortiz, Essien and Lampard were totally different, all round international midfielders, but played behind Drogba there was no attacking playmaker in either side. The current Uruguay team do play something similar as well as they have a wealth of attacking talent and just chuck in some midfield water carriers. With the current Saints team ultimately where do our strenghts lie? Surely the formation should be built to utilise these? For me, when we have played well this season it has been when there has been clear midfield rotation ie nobody fixed to certain areas of the pitch. In the 4-1-2-3 the '2' need to hold their shape or you become too open - that is why I don't think Lallana and Ramirez - our most able players are suited there. To stick with that formation I would play something more like this: - Morgan to pretty much never go past halfway and Lallana and Cork to be disciplined out of possession. - Another option would be to add Davis for Mayuka and switch AL to the more advanced role. ----------------------------Boruc-------------------------- Clyne------------Fonte----------------Yoshida------------Shaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------Cork--------------------Lallana--------------- -------Ramirez---------------------------------------Mayuka ---------------------------RL/JR------------------------------- Edited 8 November, 2012 by Saint Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 This might be a literal translation but not tied to a diamond. Ardiles and Kempes both attacking players played behind Bertini, Luque and Ortiz, Essien and Lampard were totally different, all round international midfielders, but played behind Drogba there was no attacking playmaker in either side. How does Ardiles famous five experiment at Spurs fit into this (with Popescu as the DM IIRC)? Great to watch and, for a brief period, quite successful but ultimately undone by defensive frailties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 The current Uruguay team do play something similar as well as they have a wealth of attacking talent and just chuck in some midfield water carriers. With the current Saints team ultimately where do our strenghts lie? Surely the formation should be built to utilise these? For me, when we have played well this season it has been when there has been clear midfield rotation ie nobody fixed to certain areas of the pitch. In the 4-1-2-3 the '2' need to hold their shape or you become too open - that is why I don't think Lallana and Ramirez - our most able players are suited there. To stick with that formation I would play something more like this: - Morgan to pretty much never go past halfway and Lallana and Cork to be disciplined out of possession. - Another option would be to add Davis for Mayuka and switch AL to the more advanced role. ----------------------------Boruc-------------------------- Clyne------------Fonte----------------Yoshida------------Shaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------Cork--------------------Lallana--------------- -------Ramirez---------------------------------------Mayuka ---------------------------RL/JR------------------------------- Well after you saying you wouldn't play Lallana in the '2' you have put him there, and our main strength is probably playing Gaston off the striker where he played Vs Villa and Everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 Well after you saying you wouldn't play Lallana in the '2' you have put him there, and our main strength is probably playing Gaston off the striker where he played Vs Villa and Everton. I wouldn't play both him and Gaston there, but a front 3 of Lallana, Ramirez and Lambert isn't exactly pacy so if Mayuka comes in there still needs to be a place for Lallana so he would act as a Carillero. Agree that for me a good 4-2-3-1 would be best with Gaston the central one of the 3, but Derrys formation could also be interesting to test... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 How does Ardiles famous five experiment at Spurs fit into this (with Popescu as the DM IIRC)? Great to watch and, for a brief period, quite successful but ultimately undone by defensive frailties. It could have worked, I bet it was good to watch. As you say the defence was it's undoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 Well after you saying you wouldn't play Lallana in the '2' you have put him there, and our main strength is probably playing Gaston off the striker where he played Vs Villa and Everton. Lallana isn't a CM, he's an attacking player. If we do not stop trying to shoe him in somewhere where he doesn't fit we will suffer. If you want to play 3 CMs it has to be Cork,Morgan and either Davis or JWP..same formation that was reasonably succesful at the start of the season. Then choices have to be made cos there's 3 places available for front men and we have a whole lot of them, you either have to drop JRod or Lallana if you want to start with Ramirez and SRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 Lallana isn't a CM, he's an attacking player. If we do not stop trying to shoe him in somewhere where he doesn't fit we will suffer. If you want to play 3 CMs it has to be Cork,Morgan and either Davis or JWP..same formation that was reasonably succesful at the start of the season. Then choices have to be made cos there's 3 places available for front men and we have a whole lot of them, you either have to drop JRod or Lallana if you want to start with Ramirez and SRL. Which is why I said I'd start with -----Morgan --- Cork------ Mayuka---Gaston---Lallana ----------J-Rod----------- Maybe chuck Lambert in at home and J-Rod away. Possibly change to more of a 3 CM's away from home in Cork, Morgan and Davis, and then have J-Rod, Gaston and one other in the front 3 places. We're not short of options it's just finding the right combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 The current Uruguay team do play something similar as well as they have a wealth of attacking talent and just chuck in some midfield water carriers. With the current Saints team ultimately where do our strenghts lie? Surely the formation should be built to utilise these? For me, when we have played well this season it has been when there has been clear midfield rotation ie nobody fixed to certain areas of the pitch. In the 4-1-2-3 the '2' need to hold their shape or you become too open - that is why I don't think Lallana and Ramirez - our most able players are suited there. To stick with that formation I would play something more like this: - Morgan to pretty much never go past halfway and Lallana and Cork to be disciplined out of possession. - Another option would be to add Davis for Mayuka and switch AL to the more advanced role. ----------------------------Boruc-------------------------- Clyne------------Fonte----------------Yoshida------------Shaw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------Cork--------------------Lallana--------------- -------Ramirez---------------------------------------Mayuka ---------------------------RL/JR------------------------------- I think it wouldn't work for two reasons, Cork isn't match fit and Schneiderlin just doesn't defend. We need to bring in better players at the back and a defensive midfielder but we have to get through to January and Schneiderlin, Lallana and Davis leave us open with a back four who aren't good enough at this level. I will say Cork was poor v Sheff Wed until injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 I think it wouldn't work for two reasons, Cork isn't match fit and Schneiderlin just doesn't defend. We need to bring in better players at the back and a defensive midfielder but we have to get through to January and Schneiderlin, Lallana and Davis leave us open with a back four who aren't good enough at this level. I will say Cork was poor v Sheff Wed until injured. At the back I agree, but feel Morgan is a good player - certainly the best central midfielder we have. If we could bring in our own Cheick Tiote in Jan that would be ideal. Harsh to judge Cork on his only appearance of the season - he is a decent player and capable of getting a foot in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 Which is why I said I'd start with -----Morgan --- Cork------ Mayuka---Gaston---Lallana ----------J-Rod----------- Maybe chuck Lambert in at home and J-Rod away. Possibly change to more of a 3 CM's away from home in Cork, Morgan and Davis, and then have J-Rod, Gaston and one other in the front 3 places. We're not short of options it's just finding the right combination. Trouble is our powder puff defence needs 3 CMs in front of it so there are only places for 3 attackers and you've got 4. The Man U set up was the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 8 November, 2012 Share Posted 8 November, 2012 I think when we're taking it to teams at home then it's fine to play like that. But when we're away, or against a better side where a draw would be a good result at home, play 3 in midfield with 2 wide players and 1 striker. Just means that Gaston will have to play wide, and he's the player who we need to be involved as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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