Two Strikers - not working

[Saint Charlie]

Will those who clamoured for 4-4-2 now realise this won't work and that our best form this season has been with one up front plus one in the hole?

 

IMO we have got worse the last few games which coincides with playing both of them.

 

Even the first half vs West Ham we looked very comfortable with that extra midfield man, and obviously did well vs City, Utd and home to Villa with only one of them playing.

 

When other teams setup in the 4-2-3-1 it is exactly that, two holders, three attacking midfielders and one forward.

 

That is exactly how we were vs Villa.

[Roger]

Mayuka and lambert may work.

[Saint_clark]

Indeed, V Villa is the only time we've properly played that formation, other times it's been 3 deep CMs with two wingers pushing on to support the striker.

We seem to lack the discipline in the middle needed to play that way. If one of Davis and Morgan were told to stay behind the ball at all times, then we'd have enough players back to cover the full backs. But that doesn't happen - everyone just floods forwards without a care for the space they leave behind them.

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

Mayuka and lambert may work.

Come on Roger, do you think NC will allow his 7m Striker to sit on the bench!!!

[The Godfather]

We may off played with two strikers but they got no service as we still played with three central midfielders and only lallana wide who had a poor game,

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

Indeed, V Villa is the only time we've properly played that formation, other times it's been 3 deep CMs with two wingers pushing on to support the striker.

We seem to lack the discipline in the middle needed to play that way. If one of Davis and Morgan were told to stay behind the ball at all times, then we'd have enough players back to cover the full backs. But that doesn't happen - everyone just floods forwards without a care for the space they leave behind them.

Your right Clarkie, Gary Neville summed it up nicely. When he said our players looked lost and didn't know the positions they had to cover.

[ant]

4-4-2 is dead at the top level. 4-2-3-1 is without doubt the best setup for the players we have rather than the way we'd like to play.

 

This is our current best lineup in my opinion:

 

      
       Gazza/Boruc

Clyne  Fonte  Yoshida  Fox

    Davis  Schneiderlin

 Mayuka  Ramirez  Lallana

         Lambert

 

You can switch Puncheon in for Mayuka if you so prefer, but I think he's been more effective than Jason so far. This setup gives the back four far more protection and you can pack the midfield whilst defending if necessary. On the attack it essentially gives Gaston a free role - typically playing as the most advanced of the front three midfielders, almost in a CF position. I think he's wasted out wide as most of our best moves tend to go through him as the playmaker.

[pingwing]

The 4-2-3-1 only works when Davis and Schneiderlin don't sit so deep and move forward to assist the front 4, as they did against Villa. What we have seen since Everton is that they have sat deeper and deeper to "protect" the back 4, which in reality has taken the back 4's confidence and taken the 2 midfielders out of the game completely.

 

I think the only way out is to do the 4-3-3 we started against City and United with (especially with Gaston not 100%). Give Morg his anchorman sort of role and Cork/JWP and Davis to run the midfield in front of him. Then give Lallana, Lambert and Myuka/Gaston full run of the front 3. Should give us a different outlet of all the possession we have had this season, especially as Gaston isn't fit enough to drop back yet and link up with the midfield 2 in 4-2-3-1.

[doddisalegend]

4-4-2 might have worked with Lambert and Sharp and two proper pacy wingers slinging in crosses.

 

I'm not even sure the formation is the problem so much as the chopping and changing of the formation the players don't seem to know what the hell they are suppossed to be doing half the time. Now the confidence and team spirit that was a big part of our success the last few seasons seems to be gone as well. I think we just need to go back to basics find a formation that the players are comfortable with and work on being hard to beat.

Edited 6 November, 2012 by doddisalegend

[shurlock]

Come on Roger, do you think NC will allow his 7m Striker to sit on the bench!!!

 

Mayuka is more of a Cortese signing than Rodriguez.

[The9]

Mayuka and lambert may work.

 

Mayuka and Ramirez is my chosen 1-1, but we'll have to remember how to pass it on the ground to a striker first.

[richardc]

if you looked at that visual they had on MNF which showed the average player positions of the two teams then it is clear that we have not formation at all - it was a complete mess and shambles, whereas the WBA was very structured.

our two fall backs are playing in the CB roles with no one covering their positions

MS and SD seem like strangers to each other and I cant remember them passing to each other once

Lallana as good a player as he is always ends up on a 100MPH sprint to get back to the player he should be marking but ends up giving them too much space

Rameirez clearly didnt want to paly out wide and drifted in leaving no options on the wing

Lambert spent most of the time out wide where as we need him in the box

It seems that our players are like put square pegs in round holes when it comes to the structure he is trying to play

[Give it to Ron]

if you looked at that visual they had on MNF which showed the average player positions of the two teams then it is clear that we have not formation at all - it was a complete mess and shambles, whereas the WBA was very structured.

our two fall backs are playing in the CB roles with no one covering their positions

MS and SD seem like strangers to each other and I cant remember them passing to each other once

Lallana as good a player as he is always ends up on a 100MPH sprint to get back to the player he should be marking but ends up giving them too much space

Rameirez clearly didnt want to paly out wide and drifted in leaving no options on the wing

Lambert spent most of the time out wide where as we need him in the box

It seems that our players are like put square pegs in round holes when it comes to the structure he is trying to play

 

Yep and there was a massive hole where Lallana and Fox should have been. No point in playing 2 up front if we have no wingers to supply the crosses

thats why Lambert looks so ineffective at the moment - the quality of crosses are abysmal.

If we can get Richardson on the right and Clyne on the left we may improve.

[callysaint76]

Most of your teams are too attacking. You can't have Lallana and Gaston in the same team.

Right...Gazzinaga, claim some f***ing crosses! Clyne, potentially a good player, but stop falling over! Yoshida, get some challenges in…decent footballer but too nice! Fonte, too many stupid mistakes. And Fox – positionally is very poor but has a good first touch and cross...obviously need to replace in January.

 

 

 

Steven Davis and Schniederlin…not good enough at the moment, too easy for opposing teams! Lallana, lazy at times and style over substance (same as Ramirez)….Jay Rod works very hard with no end product, Lambert does nothing but you feel he could score…

 

Team that we need to go for....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gazzaniga

 

Clyne Fonte Yoshida Fox

 

Cork Morgan Davis

 

Ramirez Mayuka

 

Lambert

 

 

 

Pace on both wings from Clyne one side and Mayuka the other side. Defence wouldn’t get as exposed because Cork and Morgan would be there and Lambert would have both speed (mayuka) and skill (Ramirez) supporting him! Then Lallana (who has been poor, West Ham goal aside) off the bench for one of the midfield 3 if it isn’t going to plan, to go more attacking. Jay Rod for Lambert when he tires..easy! The pace of Mayuka is crucial to stretch the opposing defence and make space for Lambert and Gaston. This formation means that Cork will cover Gaston when he wonders as well.

[corky morris]

Yep.......Man Utd never play it or win anything!!

Utter bollix. The key is to be flexible, 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 3-5-2............amend formations within a match too.

Our problem onMonday was that we did not pass the ball to each other well enough in the opposition half!

 

 

QUOTE=ant;1520169]4-4-2 is dead at the top level. 4-2-3-1 is without doubt the best setup for the players we have rather than the way we'd like to play.

 

This is our current best lineup in my opinion:

 

      
       Gazza/Boruc

Clyne  Fonte  Yoshida  Fox

    Davis  Schneiderlin

 Mayuka  Ramirez  Lallana

         Lambert

 

You can switch Puncheon in for Mayuka if you so prefer, but I think he's been more effective than Jason so far. This setup gives the back four far more protection and you can pack the midfield whilst defending if necessary. On the attack it essentially gives Gaston a free role - typically playing as the most advanced of the front three midfielders, almost in a CF position. I think he's wasted out wide as most of our best moves tend to go through him as the playmaker.

[ART]

Instead of the results improving we're regressing. Time to revert to the team we fielded against the two Manchester teams and tweak things with better substitutions and leaving Ricky on to play the full game. Couldn't get much worse.

[S-Clarke]

From what I've seen, Rodriguez and Lambert aren't great together. Too similar in places, although Rodriguez has a bit more life about him in terms of movement and pace.

 

I think we need to carry on as we started, 1 up top, Rameriz in his natural number 10 position just behind, with the 2 wide players joining in. That'll work.

 

it's just what happens when they attack us.

[Saint_clark]

From what I've seen, Rodriguez and Lambert aren't great together. Too similar in places, although Rodriguez has a bit more life about him in terms of movement and pace.

 

I think we need to carry on as we started, 1 up top, Rameriz in his natural number 10 position just behind, with the 2 wide players joining in. That'll work.

 

it's just what happens when they attack us.

 

Agreed, both like to run into the channels with Rodriguez having better pace and more ability to beat his man whilst Lambert is better at actually seeing the pass and executing it.

I look forward to Mayuka starting a game at some point.