Steeleye Saint Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Just read on the BBC website that Steve Bould has really helped improve Arsenal defensively, so, rather than sacking Nigel, why don't we bring in someone like that? Arsenal like to play open attacking football so it shouldn't stop us playing the "Southampton Way" should it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Surely we must already have one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 (edited) Andy Crosby is a former centre halfist. You'd think he'd be able to drill a defence. Edited 3 November, 2012 by Turkish Andy not Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 If we've got one he needs sacking! We urgently need someone. I'd be on the phone to the likes of Keown or Dixon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 If we've got one he needs sacking! We urgently need someone. I'd be on the phone to the likes of Keown or Dixon. With their glittering coaching careers behind them, they clearly cannot fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeleye Saint Posted 3 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Gary Crosby is a former centre halfist. You'd think he'd be able to drill a defence. You'd think so, but do we someone else, as whatever he's doing clearly isn't working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Man Do Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Isn't it Andy Crosby? :-s I do wonder if perhaps his lack of high level experience is a bit of a draw back? I'm sure someone with a higher coaching pedigree than me can tell me why that might be wrong though! I wonder if Jaidi could do the business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Easier teaching an elephant to jump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Isn't it Andy Crosby? :-s I do wonder if perhaps his lack of high level experience is a bit of a draw back? I'm sure someone with a higher coaching pedigree than me can tell me why that might be wrong though! I wonder if Jaidi could do the business? Correct, Gary Crosby was a winger for Notts Forest. I'm not surprised he knows nothing about defending! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawillwill Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 We should definitely get a defensive coach. And then park it in front of the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Crosby is the defensive coach. But to coin a phrase, you cannot polish a turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen_dan Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Why cant we just promote someone already at the club... anyone guessed yet? JAIDI! Why not?! He's already employed by the club, forget the youngsters for the time being and sort out the first team FFS! Prem and international experience. Surely worth a punt? No worse than whoever we've currently got doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1976.4.38 Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 think weve dodds and paul williams,why not them or why in the first place did we get rid of wally downes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 It's all well and good being able to say what makes a good defence and talk about it endlessly to the media, it's quite another to actually coach and teach it. Keown and Dixon? Do me a favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Results don't lie and so yes, there needs to be something done to sort out the back-line. However, as someone else has suggested the players at the coaches disposal are probably not up to the mark - not on the same wavelength as Prem class attackers and therefore fail to anticipate/too slow to react. I remember seeing Le Saux at the end of his career at Saints and he had the necessarily quality even if he was getting slower - what he lost in pace he made up with in terms of anticipation. You can't learn that if you're not got the capacity to learn in the first place...everyone has limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chivvy1664 Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Some better defenders would help no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 The first team is being run by an ex-keeper, and an ex-centre half. You'd think that between them they could organise the back 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 The constant chopping and changing doesn't help either. We've used 3 goalkeepers, 3 different left and right backs and 3 centre halves in 9 league games and it's difficult to make a case for more than a couple of them being of the standard needed. I know we've had injuries and there's not much you can do about that but you need a settled back 4 and good communication and awareness between them and a goalkeeper. This won't happen when the personnel keeps changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 The constant chopping and changing doesn't help either. We've used 3 goalkeepers, 3 different left and right backs and 3 centre halves in 9 league games and it's difficult to make a case for more than a couple of them being of the standard needed. I know we've had injuries and there's not much you can do about that but you need a settled back 4 and good communication and awareness between them and a goalkeeper. This won't happen when the personnel keeps changing. This. I think if we can start playing the same back five each game it would help no end. But obviously we still need reinforcements in January Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Something I have been saying since 3rd game of the season. We conceded far too many from set pieces which says to me its not ALL down to personel, no they arent good enough but they are not an average of 3 goals a game bad. And TBH how Crosby can be an effective defensive coach when he has only been a coach 5 minutes and never played to that level ill never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Andy Crosby is a former centre halfist. You'd think he'd be able to drill a defence. but can a League 1 centre half drill a premier league defence, therein lies the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restark19 Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 If there is the opportunity to bring in a defensive coach experienced at this level then i think without a doubt we should do that, whether that's possible is another question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Just read on the BBC website that Steve Bould has really helped improve Arsenal defensively There are also frequent reports about friction between Bould and Wenger, not necessarily a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 but can a League 1 centre half drill a premier league defence, therein lies the question. This Though you can argue that Jose and AVB never had relevant playing experience but I would say the experience and studying that some of these sorts of coaches have put in is unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 No-one else noticed its actually a team game? Never seen a good defensive side that didn't defend from the front and right through the team. Blaming solely defenders or keepers is extremely naive. Exactly until we can get a couple of midfield players who see there job as to defend rather than spray passes about we will struggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 The constant chopping and changing doesn't help either. We've used 3 goalkeepers, 3 different left and right backs and 3 centre halves in 9 league games and it's difficult to make a case for more than a couple of them being of the standard needed. I know we've had injuries and there's not much you can do about that but you need a settled back 4 and good communication and awareness between them and a goalkeeper. This won't happen when the personnel keeps changing. No-one else noticed its actually a team game? Never seen a good defensive side that didn't defend from the front and right through the team. Blaming solely defenders or keepers is extremely naive. Probably the most sane comments I've seen on here in a long time. Consistency is the key and we have not had the chance to gain that - mainly (IMO) due to injuries. The best I've seen our defence play was in the second half against villa (didn't do to shabbily in the first either) but when have we had the same personnel available since then? As to defending from the front totally agree good teams work as a unit both in attack and defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 It's About our shape. Our wide player go wandering leaving the back like exposed We don't defend from the front and we lack pace It's more about that shape than anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 but can a League 1 centre half drill a premier league defence, therein lies the question. Do the principles of attack, midfield play or defence change from division to division? No. Certainly the skill levels of the players improves immeasurably the higher up the leagues you go, but the principles remain the same regarding positioning, closing down, discipline, teamwork, etc. Just because a coach only had playing experience as a defender in the lower divisions doesn't preclude him from becoming a great coach at the top levels, any more than a player with a career in the lower divisions would be incapable of achieving great things as a manager of a top team. However, although Crosby is Adkins' man, I just get the feeling that the defensive weaknesses and lapses might be partly down to him, so a sensible alternative to replacing a good manager, might be to replace the defensive coach instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Yes, because it's about the covering players and front men to be made more aware of what they can do to help out. It's no good players like Lallana sprinting thirty yards and being too late to challenge. Instead when the opponents have the ball attacking, they should be shown that the twenty seconds they had spent prior to that, strolling/trotting, ball watching, should have been used to spot the next threat and move back into a defensive position early enough to block off the potential threat. It's the discipline enforced in good teams. Somebody like Gary Neville, wouldn't come cheap, but a massive step up from anyone we employ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Just read on the BBC website that Steve Bould has really helped improve Arsenal defensively, Arsenal's defence is pretty awful, if sides get enough of the ball they get taken apart. Bit like us really, although sides obviously get more of the ball against us. I wouldn't hold Arsenal's defencive coach up as a good example. Bit too simplistic to take the line "X was a good defender, he'll make a good defensive coach". Any oldies on here who remember George Graham as a player will know, he couldn't defend for toffee, yet he drilled Arsenal's back 4 into the best defensive unit in the modern day game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Yes, because it's about the covering players and front men to be made more aware of what they can do to help out. It's no good players like Lallana sprinting thirty yards and being too late to challenge. Instead when the opponents have the ball attacking, they should be shown that the twenty seconds they had spent prior to that, strolling/trotting, ball watching, should have been used to spot the next threat and move back into a defensive position early enough to block off the potential threat. It's the discipline enforced in good teams. Somebody like Gary Neville, wouldn't come cheap, but a massive step up from anyone we employ. agree with the bit about Lallana i ended up arguing with the bloke next to me against Spuds when he kept doing that, his and a few others were tactically inept with regards to their defensive duties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 We've got Jason Dodd and Graeme Murty on the staff. I know they have other responsibilities, but we could maybe use them part time to work with the defence. But I do agree defending is a team unit responsibility, and particularly that we need the midfielders to screen the back 4, not just spray passes to the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjen Robben Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 Lot's of ex-defenders being mentioned in this thread, but what about Radhi Jaida ? bring back our man in Africa to coach some steel into the defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 (edited) It's not about steel it's about not switching off. As long as midfielders/forwards stop playing continue to spectate and don't sharpen up their thinking in anticipating the next threat the defenders won't cope. It needs a smart retired top class defensive player who is already coaching to sort out the individuals. It doesn't need a permanent contract more a consultant who could be available, as I said before Gary Neville or somebody like him. It's about brains not brawn. Edited 4 November, 2012 by derry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 It's not about steel it's about not switching off. As long as midfielders/forwards stop playing continue to spectate and don't sharpen up their thinking in anticipating the next threat the defenders won't cope. It needs a smart retired top class defensive player who is already coaching to sort out the individuals. It doesn't need a permanent contract more a consultant who could be available, as I said before Gary Nevile or somebody like him. It's about brains not brawn. You're right and wrong in equal measure IMO. To switch off, you've got to be switched on in the first place - our defence largely is not switched on in the first place. The reason for this is that they do not have the required skill/anticipation/awareness to compete - not one of them (exception may be Clyne, but he's too young and needs more experience). So yes, it is about brains however a bit of brawn helps when the going gets tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 You're right and wrong in equal measure IMO. To switch off, you've got to be switched on in the first place - our defence largely is not switched on in the first place. The reason for this is that they do not have the required skill/anticipation/awareness to compete - not one of them (exception may be Clyne, but he's too young and needs more experience). So yes, it is about brains however a bit of brawn helps when the going gets tough. I think you missed the point. I was talking about the other players not the back four who are over exposed by the switching off. Lallana and Puncheon against Spurs were poor in that respect. On the other hand Mayuka was very good and very quick to get into an early covering position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliegeorgesflymo Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 Andy Crosby is a former centre halfist. You'd think he'd be able to drill a defence. One with Premiership experience would be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 There hasn't been a lot wrong with our defence over the last two seasons, probably because Andy Crosby has played/coached at that level. All of a sudden we are playing against some of the best strikers and attacking midfielders in the world, may be his experience doesn't stretch to being able to counteract their skill/movement/speed of thought? Could definitely do with some help if you ask me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 Somebody like Gary Neville, wouldn't come cheap, but a massive step up from anyone we employ. This. I know it probably won't happen but if we got him in we'd be laughing. Clearly a future manager too. He will go on to big things so we may as well get in there before the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Kucho Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 The defence is weak, but I think our major problem is the positions all our players get in when we lose possession. When our opponents get the ball the players look lost and don't have a clue where to go or who to follow. What we need is an assistant for Nigel with Premier league experience, someone like Lee Carsley, Ledley King or some Italian coach (they usually know how to set up a team) to work with the players and assist the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmbrm Posted 5 November, 2012 Share Posted 5 November, 2012 Crosby is the defensive coach. But to coin a phrase, you cannot polish a turd. But you can roll it in glitter. You won't compensate for lack of ability, but at the omens the lack of organisation is costing us more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 5 November, 2012 Share Posted 5 November, 2012 No-one else noticed its actually a team game? Never seen a good defensive side that didn't defend from the front and right through the team. Blaming solely defenders or keepers is extremely naive.[/QUOTE] Now, there you go again Adrian, ....coming up with that sort of common sense, logical explanation that is so obvious, but few will acknowledge it, and you'll be ignored or chastised for coming up with such a "simple " solution. Of course, you're right. I can recall the days when the mere sight of a full back crossing the half way line and daring to centre a ball into the area...brought the crowd to its feet in a fervour of excitement. .or a centre half coming up for a corner ...and even scoring! Jack Charlton (former Leeds CH perfected that in the 1970's)... but only copied one of his predecessors the legendary John Charles. A great striker, who could equally well play as central defender when called upon...or those attack-minded goalies who ran the length of the field in order to be the extra man when their losing team had a last-minute corner. But the thought of strikers /midfielders tracking back to cover their defenders isn't seen often enough. YES..so why don't our outfield players defend more often? - good question. I noted that Chelsea won the Champions League in May against overwhelming odds by using a 10 man defence at times. It doesn't necessarily make for pretty football ", but it gets results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 5 November, 2012 Share Posted 5 November, 2012 lot's of ex-defenders being mentioned in this thread, but what about radhi jaida ? Bring back our man in africa to coach some steel into the defence. ...if only ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 5 November, 2012 Share Posted 5 November, 2012 It seems extraordinary that we do not have a defensive coach - we certainly need one! Against Spurs in the first half our defending was simply awful and we gave them far too much space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 5 November, 2012 Share Posted 5 November, 2012 Why don't we put smaller goals in at St Marys, no-one would notice. Just a foot here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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