maddog Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 http://www.football365.com/f365-says/8214199/Will-Promotion-Cost-Adkins-His-Job- Agree with this, now get of his back and lets give the man a chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 http://www.football365.com/f365-says/8214199/Will-Promotion-Cost-Adkins-His-Job- Bang on the money for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted 31 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 31 October, 2012 ha ha i just posted that to! 100% agree with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Sorry Maddog Didn't see your "Intresting Article Thread" Feel Free to delete / merge whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Good read although slightly over playing the "rise from the ashes" bit. Adkins inherited a squad that was NPC bound whoever was in charge. Has Nige earned his chance? Yep. Is he going to get it? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 A great read and hits the nail right on the head. NA needs time and whoever managed the transfer budget in the summer needs to be found and shot for not sorting out the defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 A great read and hits the nail right on the head. NA needs time and whoever managed the transfer budget in the summer needs to be found and shot for not sorting out the defence. Who is this do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 I want to keep Adkins, but I'm not sure what that article really tells us? If any of us do well in our jobs and get a promotion, we'll be expected to deliver at that level. If Adkins makes a mistake, which he has, he should be criticised like any other manager. The crowd has been pretty clear in it's vocal support for him, both on Sunday and last night, so there can't be too many complaints in that regard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketphilly Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Whilst I agree with the whole tenet of the piece, the problem is that expectancies increase when you over achieve. The fact that we got into the Prem earlier than anticipated cannot deflect from the fact that we are heading for, if not, in the mire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 I want to keep Adkins, but I'm not sure what that article really tells us? If any of us do well in our jobs and get a promotion, we'll be expected to deliver at that level. If Adkins makes a mistake, which he has, he should be criticised like any other manager. The crowd has been pretty clear in it's vocal support for him, both on Sunday and last night, so there can't be too many complaints in that regard? Agreed he has to deliver and clearly isn't wether he can change that I don't think so as the players have lost confidence in him too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 ha ha i just posted that to! 100% agree with it! Do you agree with the bits about Adkins not being fully in control and interfereance from above, as well as pressure to play certain players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Good read. Very difficult at the moment, as fans we need to take a leap of faith. Whilst we want to sort things out quickly and change seems the easiest way to do so, sometimes taking the more difficult route is the better option longer term, it's just not the easy option. I still think that Nige can turn it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Ok article, nothing particularly illuminating. 4-3-3, substitutions against united/fulham -each of these criticisms is swallowed hook, line and sinker without any critical questioning. Nothing on the defense either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 (edited) Do you agree with the bits about Adkins not being fully in control and interfereance from above, as well as pressure to play certain players? "Reports suggest..." Can you turn you lead into gold or make s**t smell like roses the same way you way you turn rumour into fact? Edited 31 October, 2012 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 "Reports suggest..." Can you turn you lead into gold or make s**t small like roses the same way you way you turn rumour into fact? Do you agree or not agree that the waters between team management and club management are currently muddied, like the article says it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Last season I was convinced that we weren't good enough to go up. I'm prepared to admit that I was wrong. However, upon reflection I think I was looking at it from the point of view that if we did go up we were in no shape to stay up without some serious investment in certain areas like the defence. We've failed to address those areas and Nigel has shown that he's tactically naive. A passing game may have worked against teams in the Championship but we're being found out at this level because there's so many teams that play that game far better than we do. I'd have rather stayed in the Championship for 3 seasons and built a better, stronger squad with more versatility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Ok article, nothing particularly illuminating. 4-3-3, substitutions against united/fulham -each of these criticisms is swallowed hook, line and sinker without any critical questioning. Nothing on the defense either. You didn't see this paragraph? "Defensively the Saints look shambolic, a largely unsurprising characteristic when you look at the personnel on show. These are not necessarily poor defenders, but each one of Jos Hooiveld, Jose Fonte, Nathaniel Clyne and Maya Yoshida lacks either pace, positioning or experience. Before the two goals conceded against Spurs on Sunday, Southampton had conceded an average of three goals a game this season in the Premier League, comfortably higher than any other league side in England." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Do you agree or not agree that the waters between team management and club management are currently muddied, like the article says it is? Like they are in many clubs- sometimes for good reasons -otherwise known as integration and coordination, sometimes for bad reasons. It depends what waters are muddied and why. The fact that waters may be muddied is in itself neither good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 You didn't see this paragraph? "Defensively the Saints look shambolic, a largely unsurprising characteristic when you look at the personnel on show. These are not necessarily poor defenders, but each one of Jos Hooiveld, Jose Fonte, Nathaniel Clyne and Maya Yoshida lacks either pace, positioning or experience. Before the two goals conceded against Spurs on Sunday, Southampton had conceded an average of three goals a game this season in the Premier League, comfortably higher than any other league side in England." Sorry I meant what went on during the transfer window re. the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Like they are in many clubs- sometimes for good reasons -otherwise known as integration and coordination, sometimes for bad reasons. It depends what waters are muddied and why. The fact that waters may be muddied is in itself neither good or bad. Second bottom of the league with the worst ever defence and a manager under severe pressure to keep his job says it probably isn't a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 The article has certainly given me pause for thought, but the basic tenet is wrong. If he had missed promotion last season after that start, he would have been fired anyway. NAs record with us is the stuff of legends; for me he is up there with Lawrie and Ted, but at the moment the PL looks completely over his head. Even the article has pointed out some of his tactical blunders. NC will not let us be relegated without doing something against it, and its his call. I am uncomfortable with the idea that he may be fired, but how much longer can the club permit the souls of the players, whom we are stuck with until January, to be demoralised and demotivated ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Is the truth, maybe, that we were over performing last year, and that more players than we thought aren't up to it? The formation debate doesn't hold water. We could play 4--5-1 with three defensive midfielders if we want, but there seem to be other issues involved. Four at the back with two defensive midfielders should be plenty in whatever formation. NA's great strength is him keeping positive at all times, which does motivate people. For those who still believe in a "boot up the backside" motivational technique I would like you to produce the evidence. I am whittling down the argument and it seems like player quality may be the matter. We were all surprised last year, and it seemed that most would have been happy with mid table for another year in the CC. That would have given us an extra year to strengthen. Now we didn't have that, which probably makes a great difference. I don't want to see the end of NA. Much rather that NC thinks about getting an experienced, wise head in to support him. Somebody who has a history of well defended teams and maybe 4-3-3 behind him, who would like to see NA succeed. I haven't got a name in mind, but with NC's italian connections I'm sure it can be found. The whole idea of seeing one of the usual suspects becomeing manager here fills me with gloom. We need to do better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 The type of poster on here calling for Adkins to be sacked, it seems to me, are the type of poster who panic early during a game, after we fall behind. It's relatively early in the season. Our situation is serious, no doubt, but we must stay with NA at least 'til December. He deserves the right to turn things around. And the fall-out from his premature sacking would be intense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 You didn't see this paragraph? "Defensively the Saints look shambolic, a largely unsurprising characteristic when you look at the personnel on show. These are not necessarily poor defenders, but each one of Jos Hooiveld, Jose Fonte, Nathaniel Clyne and Maya Yoshida lacks either pace, positioning or experience. Before the two goals conceded against Spurs on Sunday, Southampton had conceded an average of three goals a game this season in the Premier League, comfortably higher than any other league side in England." Oddly no mention of Fox regarding pace and positioning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Second bottom of the league with the worst ever defence and a manager under severe pressure to keep his job says it probably isn't a good thing. And nothing to do with overachieving? Open question whether a bolted together L1/championship side that had to strengthen root and branch in the space of a few months would have performed any better with a different, less muddied governance structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 If he had missed promotion last season after that start, he would have been fired anyway You know that for sure? NC will not let us be relegated without doing something against it You mean in the same way he wouldn't let us go through the summer without strengthening the squad in the places where it obviously needed to be strengthened for us to get a good start to this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 I expect someone will be along shortly to 'shout you down TM' for various and assorted reasons. Sorry for calling you 'shortly', unless that is, by an amazing coincidence, your actual name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingwing Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Too sensible for here, far too much thought and common sense involved. Should be all about how Harry will come save us because he has done it before........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 That's the issue with accelerated success - it warps the mind like a child on a swing, forcing you to demand how high you can go rather than be thankful for just how far you have come. So very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 "Whether or not there has been pressure from upstairs to play marquee summer signings Gaston Ramirez and Jay Rodriguez (who already looks frighteningly overpriced) is unclear" Fairly good article, but I have a couple of points... 1) Some on this thread are using the article to back up their own conjecture that all is not well between NC and NA, even though the author is "unclear" of the situation 2) Gaston has started one game, the pressure to play him on that occasion came from the fact that he is (even on that one showing) by far our best player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 "Whether or not there has been pressure from upstairs to play marquee summer signings Gaston Ramirez and Jay Rodriguez (who already looks frighteningly overpriced) is unclear" Fairly good article, but I have a couple of points... 1) Some on this thread are using the article to back up their own conjecture that all is not well between NC and NA, even though the author is "unclear" of the situation 2) Gaston has started one game, the pressure to play him on that occasion came from the fact that he is (even on that one showing) by far our best player. Gaston has started 2 games. He was brilliant against Villa second half and scored and had our best other chance against Everton. Having him back would be massive, he's our best player IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Until we get definite answers as to who is responsible for our summer transfer strategy, our insistence on 433 and player selection, how can any of us really make a fair judgment on NA’s managerial capabilities, let alone call for his dismissal? I appreciate the difficulties involved, but for the sake of our club it’s high time that those that actually KNOW the answers come clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Do you agree or not agree that the waters between team management and club management are currently muddied, like the article says it is? The article says 'reports suggest' what part of that statement do you read as 'FACT' - its no different form the constant rumour you peddle - with no evidence forthcoming.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channonball Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 If he hadn't made the Man U tactical blunder, things may be different now. Sobering, but I'm not swayed, still time to go sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Deep inside me I have a real sense of loyalty toward Adkins, but this season in just a few short weeks he as looked way out of his depth. The tactics, the formation, the transfers,the substitutions, the interviews etc etc............ I dont know if or who is interfering. I have never met Les Read or Nicola Cortese, but I know from years of experience that something is just not right at the club. The body language is a real give away................ Something needs to change. After last night I think it has to be Adkins (and probably Read), but without knowing for sure who is doing what to whom I lack conviction. The result last night was/is not important. The performance was shockingly bad. Adkins rightly takes responsibility. I just wish Adkins would change the tactics & formation & give us a chance in the way he did last year!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Deep inside me I have a real sense of loyalty toward Adkins, but this season in just a few short weeks he as looked way out of his depth. The tactics, the formation, the transfers,the substitutions, the interviews etc etc............ I dont know if or who is interfering. I have never met Les Read or Nicola Cortese, but I know from years of experience that something is just not right at the club. The body language is a real give away................ Something needs to change. After last night I think it has to be Adkins (and probably Read), but without knowing for sure who is doing what to whom I lack conviction. The result last night was/is not important. The performance was shockingly bad. Adkins rightly takes responsibility. I just wish Adkins would change the tactics & formation & give us a chance in the way he did last year!!!! Depends what you mean by 'not right' - is it some sort of conspiracy, major problem or deep roted infighting as some would suggest, or the 'simple' issue of intense pressure played out in the media spotlight (alot more so than in the championship) that any manager and club that us struggling will be under? Where the results and confidence has been shaken and as even players and staff are human, this is never going to lead to all 'happy days'. Depends in part on what you want to believe and whether you feel its an issue or not. Is NC driven, ambitious and possibly quite ruthlessly so? possibly, will this upset people, possibly, will the prssure he puts Nige under to deliver cause NIge some sleepless nights? probably... is this pretty normal for a club that seeks to progress rapidly? Would say so in my opinion. Alternatively, we can all assume that there is some deeply rooted problem which is hinted, rumoured and speculated about by 'fans' with some Agenda that they wont come clean about, nor substantiate with any real evidence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 t The result last night was/is not important. The performance was shockingly bad. Adkins rightly takes responsibility. I just wish Adkins would change the tactics & formation & give us a chance in the way he did last year!!!! You only had to look at the team sheet to know that the performance would be bad but that's not the question. The question is why we, a Premier League side, have so many poor players on our squad and no real depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Deep inside me I have a real sense of loyalty toward Adkins, but this season in just a few short weeks he as looked way out of his depth. The tactics, the formation, the transfers,the substitutions, the interviews etc etc............ I dont know if or who is interfering. I have never met Les Read or Nicola Cortese, but I know from years of experience that something is just not right at the club. The body language is a real give away................ Something needs to change. After last night I think it has to be Adkins (and probably Read), but without knowing for sure who is doing what to whom I lack conviction. The result last night was/is not important. The performance was shockingly bad. Adkins rightly takes responsibility. I just wish Adkins would change the tactics & formation & give us a chance in the way he did last year!!!! That is a very subjective impression based on your own disappointment and frustration. Some people on here (as usual) are over-reacting, over-generalising, and over-assuming. KEEP CALM and CARRY ON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 You only had to look at the team sheet to know that the performance would be bad but that's not the question. The question is why we, a Premier League side, have so many poor players on our squad and no real depth. I thought we would lose based on that team, especially given the lack of quality names on the bench. But I did expect the team to have a go, to at least try to compete, even if they failed. By all accounts the performance was so far short of half-decent it beggars belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 I thought we would lose based on that team, especially given the lack of quality names on the bench. But I did expect the team to have a go, to at least try to compete, even if they failed. By all accounts the performance was so far short of half-decent it beggars belief. But what we put on to the pitch was woefully outclassed, I just can't see why so many fail to accept that De Ridder ,Butterfield,Seaborne, Chaplow etc are just very poor footballers. They should have been shipped out to anyone who would take them last summer. Tweeting doesn't make you a good player, neither does sticking a cardboard box on your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 NA should be given the whole season and if we go down then so be it. This is a very tough learning ground and realistic fans always knew it was going to be a relegation scrap. I'll be backing him all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Who is this do you think? I would hazard a guess that it sit's somewhere between Reid and Cortese. They will not be the ones to suffer though. And the players will not suffer...the worst that will happen is they will drop down to a Championship wage. I don't think Adkins will be sacked for a little while yet though, because I don't think Reid and Cortese will have the audacity to use him as a scapegoat. IF they do pull the trigger, I suspect they will wait until we're on a little winning streak first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc1976 Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 For anyone who thinks that Adkins will actually still be here at the end of the season you can get 100/30 with Victor C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Fairly interesting article, doesn't really tell us anything new though. tbh, I'm more concerned that Henning Berg has just been installed at Blackburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 But what we put on to the pitch was woefully outclassed, I just can't see why so many fail to accept that De Ridder ,Butterfield,Seaborne, Chaplow etc are just very poor footballers. They should have been shipped out to anyone who would take them last summer. Tweeting doesn't make you a good player, neither does sticking a cardboard box on your head. With the exception of Seaborne, that statement is utter, utter drivel! These guys were great for us in previous campaigns - particularly Butters and Chaplow - and there's no way you can say they are "very poor". Collectively the team might well have been poor in terms of selection and tactical set-up, but that problem is Adkins and Adkins alone. Fact is the quality of the defence is shockingly poor from top to bottom and amplifies the fact that our first team defenders are all in fact of Championship quality (at best). Last night's game would have resulted in a better outcome I suspect if we were playing 4-4-2, but for some crazy reason Adkins persists in sending out players to play a system they are highly incompetent at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 The bottom line is that we have reached the Premiership ahead of the schedule put in place when ML & NC took over, a friend who went to a Cortese dinner last year said that it is not the end of the world if we do not go up this season. It was also stated that Adkins was always on the top of the list when Pardew left the building, and that Markus wanted Pardew out yet Cortese (who had been painted as Evil in the media) defended Pardew's position to stay. So maybe we are all a little uneasy as the way of the media is "lost 4 in 5...... He's sacked" (funny how Ben from Eastenders at Reading seems to be missing the sack race attention), there is always a chance that NC is actually looking at the bigger picture and is prepared to let his manager fight his way out of the current predicament seeing as he got us to the promised land. It would make a pleasant change not to follow the media sacking playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THINWHITEDUKE Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 (edited) http://www.football365.com/f365-says/8214199/Will-Promotion-Cost-Adkins-His-Job- Bang on the money for me To the OP, I really hope we get that up and coming new bright manager Nigel ADkins, the plummage on here is astounding!! Edited 31 October, 2012 by THINWHITEDUKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCholulaKid Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 NA should be given the whole season and if we go down then so be it. This is a very tough learning ground and realistic fans always knew it was going to be a relegation scrap. I'll be backing him all the way. This (plus Hamilton Saint) is one of the very few sane posts on this forum in a long time. I thought I was on my own for a moment. I guess the doomsayers just shout louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Good article that. Everyone is looking around for people to blame but the fact is we've just got promoted too quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Good article that. Everyone is looking around for people to blame but the fact is we've just got promoted too quick. that makes no sense what so ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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