What is going on,at our beloved club?

[shurlock]

I find it quite astonishing how people can highlight the end of the season as being an issue. If there were issues off the field then it certainly had no effect on our efforts on the pitch as we were only outclassed by Blackpool in the run-in when arguably had we scored in the first 20 minutes when we had some good possession and a penalty miss it may have been a completely different game.

 

So, what do we class as "end of season"? Last 6 games? Last 12 games? Last 18 games?

 

We picked up 10 points from our last 6 games and in that run I felt we had some very bad luck against both Portsmouth and Boro which made the difference between picking up another couple of points. 12 points would have been a good return from 6 fixtures. Prior to that we picked up 13 points in the previous 6 games and 14 points in the 6 games prior to that. The fact is that over the last third of the season we established a sound and regular pattern of form that was better than everyone bar Reading.

 

I can never understand why people suggest our "form" tailed off at the end of the season. Most exceptionally good betting analysts will suggest that "form" takes place over a longer period than 6 games and they are right. We see very often a team have short term variance in their results (either good or bad) only to revert back to type. Our last 6 games was slightly worse than our "usual" form and could be explained easily by a bit of misfortune in the same way that we had a bit of good fortune in games like Leeds etc. The fact is the team got promoted and that last 6 games was nothing to do with off field disharmony in any way whatsover. Anyone that watched the games properly and understands variance can occur over a short term will understand this.

 

Agree with this- reading some of the posts, you would think that we tanked, not that we suffered a slight dip that, accounting for variance and quality of the opposition, was pretty much consistent with the rest of the season. Even taking the points tally over our last 6 games would have been enough to see us finish 4th.

Edited 31 October, 2012 by shurlock

[saint si]

... not sure some on here actually are Saints 'supporters' - not with the 'glee' with which our frailties are highlighted....

 

Not sure why the likes of Turkish seem to enjoy pointing out 'issues' and 'problems' laced with sarcasm - something does not add up - no real fans express their dissapointment with such relish - at least Alps is ANGRY which is genuine emotion....

 

Many highlighted last year that alot of our success was not down to being the best side, but by being a TEAM, together, confident and united. Naturally against better sides that is is not always enough and it showed - especially towards the end of a tough season.

 

We are now in a situation where everyone at the top down lacks experience at this level - everyone is on a steep learning curve, yet instead of understanding that and although being disspointed in results which is normal, some seem obsessed with creating further division... not sure what the purpose is, but I dont classify that as support.

 

Conspiracy theories, rampant speculation and warped sense of enjoyment in 'problems and issues', suggests we have some seriously fecked up 'fans'. Thankfully those that post on here only represent a tiny minority.

 

Oh no, you can't come round here with your balanced viewpoints! Are you a happy clappy or a bedwetter?

[shurlock]

We massively overachieved last season - the players and management did fantastically well in a harder division than Norwich faced the year before. Unfortunately now we have to face the consequences, where the weakest teams in the division are better than the strongest teams we faced last year.

 

That said, although this is painful at the moment, surely it's better than the potential alternative - another season in the Championship and probably having Lambert and Morgan leave anyway...

 

Yep that's the way I see it. I guess the most disappointing thing is that having got promoted the club put its hand in its pocket and was serious about strengthening the team -contrary to the usual suspects on here claiming that we wouldn't walk the walk.

For that the club should be congratulated. But it's tempered by the nagging sense that, for whatever reason -some controllable, some uncontrollable, the club hasn't made the most of this rare opportunity.

[notnowcato]

The original point was how we didn't end the season strongly (which we didn't - we went from being clear at the top to needing a win on the last day to avoid the playoffs) - not how we did over the whole season.

 

The fact that we did well over the whole season is irrelevent to this discussion.

 

And we had a poor December - what's your point?

[Frank's cousin]

Oh no, you can't come round here with your balanced viewpoints! Are you a happy clappy or a bedwetter?

 

Neither - no one likes watching their side lose, and winning every week was a lot easier ! Most fans knew where our weaknesses were last season, but Like many I grew tired of the same old constantly pointing them out.. always cmae actross as pointeless when we were top 2 all season, which I guess most were happy with!

 

Am I happy we might go down? NO, Am I obsessed with staying up at all costs? NO - more important is supporting and enjoying it all, whatever happens, otherwise what is the fricken point? 'How can I enjoy losing?' I dont, but I can enjoy those moments, goals and the clear potential the side has IF and when the learn to friggin defend... it will come, maybe too late, maybe not, and its that unpredictabilty of football and sport that makes it interesting.

 

If the answers were as easy as some make out, can they please explain why they are fans on a message board and not managing a prem club, or at the very least coaching at one...

[Frank's cousin]

Yep that's the way I see it. I guess the most disappointing thing is that having got promoted the club put its hand in its pocket and was serious about strengthening the team -contrary to the usual suspects on here claiming that we wouldn't walk the walk.

For that the club should be congratulated. But it's tempered by the nagging sense that, for whatever reason -some controllable, some uncontrollable, the club hasn't made the most of this rare opportunity.

 

I understand that feeling, but the reality is that its not that easy - 7 years away form a league that has progressed with a side that still has L1 players - with fan expectation that you could change it all overnight... mistakes will have been made as the club learns to find its feet. So we have two choices, get on their backs, slag them off and speculate and dwell of runmours of discontent, or accept and support no matter how painful.... Anyone who expects the club to be all harmony and good grace when up against it as we are and with the results we have had is obviously naive, but neither should we think that its all going to pot because of it...

[Turkish]

Why won't he be a rich man? How do you how much money he has?

 

How much money do you think there was playing for Tranmere in the 80's, being manager of Bangor, a physio at Scunny, before 3 seasons as manager? I think it's fair to say he is on a fair wack more than in anytime in his career, would you?

[Thedelldays]

How much money do you think there was playing for Tranmere in the 80's, being manager of Bangor, a physio at Scunny, before 3 seasons as manager? I think it's fair to say he is on a fair wack more than in anytime in his career, would you?

I have no idea of his bonuses....also, he would be out of work for no more than 6 months...many NPC clubs would snatch him up

[Turkish]

... not sure some on here actually are Saints 'supporters' - not with the 'glee' with which our frailties are highlighted....

Not sure why the likes of Turkish seem to enjoy pointing out 'issues' and 'problems' laced with sarcasm - something does not add up - no real fans express their dissapointment with such relish - at least Alps is ANGRY which is genuine emotion....

 

Many highlighted last year that alot of our success was not down to being the best side, but by being a TEAM, together, confident and united. Naturally against better sides that is is not always enough and it showed - especially towards the end of a tough season.

 

We are now in a situation where everyone at the top down lacks experience at this level - everyone is on a steep learning curve, yet instead of understanding that and although being disspointed in results which is normal, some seem obsessed with creating further division... not sure what the purpose is, but I dont classify that as support.

 

Conspiracy theories, rampant speculation and warped sense of enjoyment in 'problems and issues', suggests we have some seriously fecked up 'fans'. Thankfully those that post on here only represent a tiny minority.

 

Yeah Frank. I've spent tens of thousands of pounds over the last 20 years following my club all around the country home and away and i'm not a real fan because i care about what is going on and some of the things i have warned again are starting to come to frution. I'm clearly not a real fan because unlike some of you lot dont have my head in the sand.

[Turkish]

I have no idea of his bonuses....also, he would be out of work for no more than 6 months...many NPC clubs would snatch him up

 

So are you saying you have no idea or not if a manager that has won two promotions and is now a premier league manager of a mid sized premier league club is on more money than being a physio at S****horpe?

[Thedelldays]

So are you saying you have no idea or not if a manager that has won two promotions and is now a premier league manager of a mid sized premier league club is on more money than being a physio at S****horpe?

of course he is....he will be on a fair whack..hence why I am amazed he would stay if he is such a puppet...he would command a decent wage at other clubs and in no time at all.....

 

for such a principled man, i really cannot see him being a glove puppet...depsite him constantly making the point that HE is responsible for the first team, selections and tactics......regardless of what you say about process..for all we know, it could be his baby if one really does exist..?

[Dalek2003]

What's going on at our club? Well we've gone up to a higher division and probably didn't do enough to strengthen our team in the summer to be able to stay up comfortably in this division. So therefore we are losing quite a few games.

 

Agreed. It's as simple as that. I also think that we decided to give the season a good go and if we get relegated recall the likes of Sharp and sell off the likes of Ramirez and go for immediate promotion.

I think NA and NC are in agreement but are hardly like to make this plan public. It is called the 'yoyo' strategy and considering the abuse I have had for mentioning it, I can see why they want to keep it quiet !

[shurlock]

I understand that feeling' date=' but the reality is that its not that easy - 7 years away form a league that has progressed with a side that still has L1 players - with fan expectation that you could change it all overnight... mistakes will have been made as the club learns to find its feet. So we have two choices, get on their backs, slag them off and speculate and dwell of runmours of discontent, or accept and support no matter how painful.... Anyone who expects the club to be all harmony and good grace when up against it as we are and with the results we have had is obviously naive, but neither should we think that its all going to pot because of it...[/quote']

 

True. But with the transfer budget and the money we've spent, you can't help wonder what if.

[Frank's cousin]

Yeah Frank. I've spent tens of thousands of pounds over the last 20 years following my club all around the country home and away and i'm not a real fan because i care about what is going on and some of the things i have warned again are starting to come to frution. I'm clearly not a real fan because unlike some of you lot dont have my head in the sand.

 

You are not alone in spending that money... but you forget its about choice, you chose to. Yes you are entitled to be concerned, but either disclose the reasons for it, instead of masking your displeasure in innuendo and rumour or you come across as an agenda driven obsessive - and the sarcasm really helps provide gravitas to your opinion...

[Sour Mash]

Yep- would add that we slightly overachieved last season as well, making the step up this season that much harder.

I said last season that we were over-achieving, meaning it as a compliment to what I felt was Adkins ability to get that bit extra out of players and got slated for saying our players weren't good enough. Thing is how many of our starting line up are left over from last season? We've had the opportunity to improve all over. I feel more than anything it's the confidence at the club that has gone, problem is, once that goes its very difficult to get back.

[shurlock]

Agreed. It's as simple as that. I also think that we decided to give the season a good go and if we get relegated recall the likes of Sharp and sell off the likes of Ramirez and go for immediate promotion.

I think NA and NC are in agreement but are hardly like to make this plan public. It is called the 'yoyo' strategy and considering the abuse I have had for mentioning it, I can see why they want to keep it quiet !

 

Why bother spending £30m then? Is that part of the strategy of dissimulation and double-bluff.

[Turkish]

You are not alone in spending that money... but you forget its about choice' date=' you chose to. Yes you are entitled to be concerned, but either disclose the reasons for it, instead of masking your displeasure in innuendo and rumour or you come across as an agenda driven obsessive - and the sarcasm really helps provide gravitas to your opinion...[/quote']

 

Yes i choose to do it because i'm not a real fan and take delight in spending a large percentage of my income on seeing things going wrong.

[Window Cleaner]

Why bother spending £30m then? Is that part of the strategy of dissimulation and double-bluff.

 

Well one thing is sure if we're adopting a yoyo stategy we can kiss the 7.6 million that we paid for JRod goodbye. Senseless investment when what we needed was a PL CB and a PL LB. Whomsoever made that decision is at the root of all our problems.

[Frank's cousin]

True. But with the transfer budget and the money we've spent, you can't help wonder what if.

 

To be honest, I dont have the answer - if I did, I might be working in football! My opinion is that we still do not know the best 11 and injuries to key players have not helpd in getting that established. I also feel we (Nige) are naive tactically. whereas in the CCC plan A worked 80% of the time and most had little verity of their own to counter, in the prem, its not just about getting it right at the start, but also being constantly aware of how things need to change during a game to counter the cleverer opposition - the choice facing NC, is do we get in that experience, or let Nige gain it? Personnally, I would like us to give Nige the longer term chance - and yes some of my rational for that is non-footballing - in a buisness and culture that is full of sheidt and low ethics, having someone at out club who is obviously a decent bloke, has integrity and the 'potential' to be good, is more important to me than going for an obvious choice just to keep us up - its about what it says about us a club - and sometimes those things are more important than just results - as odd as that may sound. 'We will get what we deserve'.

[Turkish]

of course he is....he will be on a fair whack..hence why I am amazed he would stay if he is such a puppet...he would command a decent wage at other clubs and in no time at all.....

 

for such a principled man, i really cannot see him being a glove puppet...depsite him constantly making the point that HE is responsible for the first team, selections and tactics......regardless of what you say about process..for all we know, it could be his baby if one really does exist..?

 

So when you said you had no idea about his bonuses and wage you cleary ignored to take into account that it's reasonable to think he is on a fair whack more now that at anytime in his career. I'm not sure how much goal keepers at Tranmere got paid in the 80's or managaer of Bangor in the 90's but i think it's fair to say not so much that he doesn't have to worry about never working again.

[Frank's cousin]

Yes i choose to do it because i'm not a real fan and take delight in spending a large percentage of my income on seeing things going wrong.

 

you should leave the comedy to those that can do it well....

[Turkish]

you should leave the comedy to those that can do it well....

 

Sorry, i didn't realise i was attempting comedy. Just answering your point as to why someone would choose to spend tens of thousands of pounds following a club they weren't a fan of over the cource of 20 years.

Edited 31 October, 2012 by Turkish

[shurlock]

I said last season that we were over-achieving, meaning it as a compliment to what I felt was Adkins ability to get that bit extra out of players and got slated for saying our players weren't good enough. Thing is how many of our starting line up are left over from last season? We've had the opportunity to improve all over. I feel more than anything it's the confidence at the club that has gone, problem is, once that goes its very difficult to get back.

 

Yep, my sentiments too. Claiming that we overachieved is not a slight on NA/the club but the very opposite.

We saw last season over the winter period how quickly confidence can haemorrhage once you start losing. But unlike last season it's hard to see how we'll turn things around when we lack that bit of prem know-how and experience.

[notnowcato]

Well one thing is sure if we're adopting a yoyo stategy we can kiss the 7.6 million that we paid for JRod goodbye. Senseless investment when what we needed was a PL CB and a PL LB. Whomsoever made that decision is at the root of all our problems.

 

I could be wrong but I think the 3 or 4 million (I think it goes to 8 million if England successfully defend the World Cup and Jay is golden boot winner or something) we spent on Jay could turn out to be the wisest investment of the summer.

[CB Fry]

you should leave the comedy to those that can do it well....

 

 

...says the unfunniest man in the northern hemisphere.

[Frank's cousin]

...says the unfunniest man in the northern hemisphere.

 

Says the funniest.... where have you been CB? Was surprised it took you so long to join in and add your 'wit'

[Smirking_Saint]

I could be wrong but I think the 3 or 4 million (I think it goes to 8 million if England successfully defend the World Cup and Jay is golden boot winner or something) we spent on Jay could turn out to be the wisest investment of the summer.

 

This

 

Jay isnt a bad investment tbh, his price was steepish but I reckon he will turn out to be a decent player in the long haul.

 

Ramirez I think was one of those that once we realised we could get him we went for it regardless of funds.

 

I cant see how any of those two signings impacted on a CB or LB considering Adkins kept hinting we needed them, IMO we went for players here and it didnt happen for whatever reason.

[Dalek2003]

Why bother spending £30m then? Is that part of the strategy of dissimulation and double-bluff.

 

It is a vanity signing, but importantly a YOUNG player with many years to go in his career. Therefore we can sell him on should we get relegated, even if we lose a fe w million on what we paid for him.

It would be different if we had gone for an old but expensive war horse coming to the end of his career.

So Ramirez, worth a punt with a limited risk.

The more you look at the evidence of our investment in quality young players the more the evidence stacks up that we are building for the future as opposed to risking all for a short term policy of staying in the premiership.

This is the very essence of the 'yoyo' policy. The final piece in the jigsaw ? NA will stay and bring us back up again with a team of players that have matured and been strengthened with new talent.

[Frank's cousin]

It is a vanity signing, but importantly a YOUNG player with many years to go in his career. Therefore we can sell him on should we get relegated, even if we lose a fe w million on what we paid for him.

It would be different if we had gone for an old but expensive war horse coming to the end of his career.

So Ramirez, worth a punt with a limited risk.

The more you look at the evidence of our investment in quality young players the more the evidence stacks up that we are building for the future as opposed to risking all for a short term policy of staying in the premiership.

This is the very essence of the 'yoyo' policy. The final piece in the jigsaw ? NA will stay and bring us back up again with a team of players that have matured and been strengthened with new talent.

 

You start off fine then once again blow your reasoning with this boll ox - there is NO policy for 'yo yo' - there is simply building in safegurads into your strategy as nothing is guarranteed in football, especialy when newly promoted.

 

Building longer term with young players is a strategy that has this safeguard built in - as younger talent can be sold on at a no loss rate should we need revenue.... but its not the intention when they are purchased, merely a bi-product of the youth strategy.

 

We want to stay up - to think otherwise is naive and frankly ridiculous - but we can COPE with relegation finance wise, and provided we can retain enough talent to remain competitive in the short term in the Championship if it came to that

[mynameisthehulk]

Some of you must get through a lot of bed sheets.

[Dalek2003]

You start off fine then once again blow your reasoning with this boll ox - there is NO policy for 'yo yo' - there is simply building in safegurads into your strategy as nothing is guarranteed in football, especialy when newly promoted.

 

Building longer term with young players is a strategy that has this safeguard built in - as younger talent can be sold on at a no loss rate should we need revenue.... but its not the intention when they are purchased, merely a bi-product of the youth strategy.

 

We want to stay up - to think otherwise is naive and frankly ridiculous - but we can COPE with relegation finance wise, and provided we can retain enough talent to remain competitive in the short term in the Championship if it came to that

 

Of course we want to stay up ! That is our first objective BUT I also believe we have been very realistic and wise in our planning in that we have considered that relegation is a real possibility. We therefore have a second plan that will see us with the capacity to bounce back quickly without breaking the bank or taking the risk aka West Ham.

If this is not a 'yoyo' policy then I don't know what is !

[Bearsy]

Of course we want to stay up ! That is our first objective BUT I also believe we have been very realistic and wise in our planning in that we have considered that relegation is a real possibility. We therefore have a second plan that will see us with the capacity to bounce back quickly without breaking the bank or taking the risk aka West Ham.

If this is not a 'yoyo' policy then I don't know what is !

 

I dunno how familiar you is with yoyo dalek, but I reckon we'd be more "walking the dog"

[The Kraken]

Of course we want to stay up ! That is our first objective BUT I also believe we have been very realistic and wise in our planning in that we have considered that relegation is a real possibility. We therefore have a second plan that will see us with the capacity to bounce back quickly without breaking the bank or taking the risk aka West Ham.

If this is not a 'yoyo' policy then I don't know what is !

 

So basically its not a yo-yo strategy at all. The intent is to stay up; but if we don't, the intent then becomes to get promoted again. Revolutionary.

 

Jesus; you don't even comprehend your own dull windups.

[derry]

For the first time on Sunday we had a real piece of luck. Adkins has been trying all sorts of combinations to get the policy 433 to work, on Sunday he found out who could make it work. Three strikers, that's what made it work, not only up front, it took a load off the shoulders of the midfield and the back four because the opposition, 4th in the league, were having to defend and barely hanging on. Having to replace Puncheon who was giving the ball away regularly and was inneffective with really his only option, Mayuka was that piece of luck because immediately it clicked with Lambert and Rodriguez and all three pulled Spurs all over the place with our midfielders pouring through the gaps, we looked a totally different team.

 

The problem could be that Adkins didn't recognise that bit of luck and go back to the same old that won't work on Monday. On Monday when the team is read out we will know whether he is a decent manager or not. It was great to see us leave three up at corners, two wide and Lambert in the middle marked by four defenders, two Spurs midfielders halfway, one taking the corner and only three attackers marked by seven defenders. I know there is a time and place for everything but I think it is something we should do a lot more often. I think we just invite trouble defending with 10/9 and 0/1 left up.

[Dalek2003]

So basically its not a yo-yo strategy at all. The intent is to stay up; but if we don't, the intent then becomes to get promoted again. Revolutionary.

 

Jesus; you don't even comprehend your own dull windups.

 

Er...yes it is a 'yoyo' strategy because it is a plan that can be emploted if necessary. Sorry if It is beyond your rather lower evolved alien brain. Clearly Krakens are less evolved than Daleks.

[The Kraken]

Er...yes it is a 'yoyo' strategy because it is a plan that can be emploted if necessary. Sorry if It is beyond your rather lower evolved alien brain. Clearly Krakens are less evolved than Daleks.

 

You really need to get some better material. And learn the ins and outs of your tedious wind ups a little more, too.

[Dalek2003]

You really need to get some better material. And learn the ins and outs of your tedious wind ups a little more, too.

 

Seems like I have touched a raw nerve old boy !

[Window Cleaner]

Just been reading through some saintslist posts. There's a new revelation/rumour on there and I'm sure FF will share it with us all very soon.

[Thedelldays]

Just been reading through some saintslist posts. There's a new revelation/rumour on there and I'm sure FF will share it with us all very soon.

do tell

[Window Cleaner]

do tell

 

no I'll let FF do that if he wants, saintslist is in the public domain anyway but I'm not going to repeat the rumour put forward. Surprised it hasn't made it here already.

[bender]

Whats gone on?? I'll tell you whats gone on. Weve gone from L1 to the Prem in just over a year. Its startled us and a lot of people in the club are having problems coping. We just need to get used to where we are. It might mean changing the manager, it might not.

 

Personally I think were a good team that deserves to be in this league. However we need to stop being quality for 30 to 40% of the game and try and be for 90%.

[The Kraken]

Seems like I have touched a raw nerve old boy !

 

Not so much, no. I just find your relentless wind-ups and mentioning "yo-yo strategy" 100 times a day a bit boring and sad. Although I imagine you find yourself very funny, which is most odd. Quite why anyone would put that much effort into trying to annoy people is bizarre; still, you seem to enjoy it, so do carry on with your tedium.

[Dalek2003]

Oh yes, there is a fire burning on the hillside and the Dalek's of Skaro have found the hand of Omega.

[The Kraken]

Just been reading through some saintslist posts. There's a new revelation/rumour on there and I'm sure FF will share it with us all very soon.

 

Bloody hell, is that still going?! I was on that when the internet began...

[RonManager]

Oh yes, there is a fire burning on the hillside and the Dalek's of Skaro have found the hand of Omega.

Don't let them 'shout you down'. They'll try their utmost to 'shout you down', but you mustn't allow yourself to be 'shouted down'.

[andybeal]

There is a rumour on there that Adkins wanted to resign after the Coventry game at the end of last season and that he was talked out of it.

[Smirking_Saint]

Really ? Why ?

 

Maybe believable

[andybeal]

It is said on saintslist because he can't work with Cortese and wanted to go out on a high. Who knows if this is true - something has definately changed though.

[hypochondriac]

He certainly appeared very weird after that game. Not like him.

[Turkish]

Can whoever that had seen this post it up please.