hypochondriac Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Just because Reed is in charge of the recruitment department (along with three other departments) it doesn't mean he is making recruitment decisions. In the same way a headteacher is ultimately in charge of a maths department, he isn't deciding the lessons plans for each year group in maths. Paul Mitchell is the "scouting recruitment manager" and his previous role at MK Dons was "head of recruitment". What do you think his job entails at Saints? It is Turkish that claimed Reed was the "head of recruitment". Hahaha! That is your best one for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 MLG is having an absolute nightmare in this thread. Totally off-beam, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 I was responding to the suggestion that NA wants the 433. Simply, if that's the case, he's been given the wrong players by recruitment. That's Reed department. Do you not think that it is likely that Adkins, Mitchell, Reed, the scouting, medical and coaching staff ALL have an input into recruitment decisions? Then Cortese ultimately makes the decision based on the views of those under him as he is ultimately responsible for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Just because Reed is in charge of the recruitment department (along with three other departments) it doesn't mean he is making recruitment decisions. I make no apologies for repeating this quote. It is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Ever. Ridiculous and :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 - Former FA Technical Director - Authored the FA's official coaching manual - Set up the Centre of Excellence programme - Part of England setup at three World Cups Just bullsh!t jobs you get through kissing the right ass in the FA, real talent at the top level goes to the big clubs. Being part of the England set up is not exactly a good thing to have on a CV either - probably the biggest under-achieving nation in World football. If Reeds experience is so valuable how come it didn't stop him f*cking up a decent Charlton side? I have nothing against Reed the manager should be choosing what players to buy. If we want a DOF to do it, get one with a proven ability in management at a decent level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Do you not think that it is likely that Adkins, Mitchell, Reed, the scouting, medical and coaching staff ALL have an input into recruitment decisions? Then Cortese ultimately makes the decision based on the views of those under him as he is ultimately responsible for the club. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Hahaha! That is your best one for a while. MLG is having an absolute nightmare in this thread. Totally off-beam, as usual. Enlighten me as to why, rather than making vague put downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 No. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 I make no apologies for repeating this quote. It is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Ever. Ridiculous and :lol: Glad it was quoted before being edited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Enlighten me as to why, rather than making vague put downs. Sure. Probably by saying this. Just because Reed is in charge of the recruitment department (along with three other departments) it doesn't mean he is making recruitment decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 I make no apologies for repeating this quote. It is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Ever. Ridiculous and :lol: Is the CEO of Tesco ultimately in charge of the buying department (along with every other department)? Yes Does the CEO of Tesco decide which brands they put on the shelf? No, the buyers do. Just because someone is in charge of 4 departments in a business, it doesn't mean they run every detail of all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 I was responding to the suggestion that NA wants the 433. Simply, if that's the case, he's been given the wrong players by recruitment. That's Reed department. The only player played out of position for 4-3-3 is Jrod but its not as if we don't have alternatives when Ramirez is fit. And even then, 4-3-3 has done a better job than 4-4-2. In terms of our other players, they would struggle regardless the formation -4-3-3, 4-4-2 whatever. But see my earlier why this can't just be pinned on the transfer committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Why not? Because I don't believe it works in that way. Unlike you, I believe the man at the helm of recruitment makes recruitment decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Is the CEO of Tesco ultimately in charge of the buying department (along with every other department)? Does the CEO of Tesco decide which brands they put on the shelf? No, the buyers do. Is that the same, you complete lunatic?? Of course it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Because I don't believe it works in that way. Unlike you, I believe the man at the helm of recruitment makes recruitment decisions. Don't be daft. Tesco doesn't work that way. Or something. MLG meltdown in process here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Is the CEO of Tesco ultimately in charge of the buying department (along with every other department)? Does the CEO of Tesco decide which brands they put on the shelf? No, the buyers do. No. But the CEO is paid megabucks in order to take responsibility for others mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maysie Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Don't be daft. Tesco doesn't work that way. Or something. MLG meltdown in process here. The CEO of Tesco is not a shelf stacker. FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Because I don't believe it works in that way. Unlike you, I believe the man at the helm of recruitment makes recruitment decisions. Well that goes against what Cortese said, as he said in public interview that he ultimately make the decision. I don't think it is unreasonable to think he is doing that after considering that of the coaching, scouting and medical departments including the likes of Adkins, Reed and Mitchell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 No. But the CEO is paid megabucks in order to take responsibility for others mistakes. Do you not think Reed is earning alot? I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 The only player played out of position for 4-3-3 is Jrod but its not as if we don't have alternatives when Ramirez is fit. And even then, 4-3-3 has done a better job than 4-4-2. In terms of our other players, they would struggle regardless the formation -4-3-3, 4-4-2 whatever. But see my earlier why this can't just be pinned on the transfer committee. We ain't got the players for 433. Our middle 3 don't pull wide to cover the full backs. Our wide forwards the same. Our fall backs aren't good enough, or pacey enough, to deal with being left one on one. Other than that are players suit the system perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Well that goes against what Cortese said, as he said in public interview that he ultimately make the decision. I don't think it is unreasonable to think he is doing that after considering that of the coaching, scouting and medical departments including the likes of Adkins, Reed and Mitchell. What about what Les Reed said himself. Are you ignoring that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Is that the same, you complete lunatic?? Of course it isn't. Rather than petty insults (as usual), explain why it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 What about what Les Reed said himself. Are you ignoring that? Reed did not say what Turkish claimed he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Ok let's just go with it and believe what Turkish has said recently. So imagine you were Nigel Adkins. (Based on the "rumours" Turkish has heard) You don't get a choice on how the club plays. The Southampton way is the way to go which means Barca style attacking. You don't get to pick the formation as the Southampton way means you have to play 4-3-3. That's just how it is. You don't get to pick the team. And now to add to that you don't get to pick the players who move to your club. You want a defender? Tough **** you got a 9th striker! So based on that in all seriousness why the **** would Adkins want to be here?! If I can say anything about him he seems like a decent honourable do the right thing kind of guy. If he had no control over anything I doubt very much he would stay. He could go to any football league club he wanted. With things not going so well right now he could say "you know what, I quit". He could say he was not able to do the things he wanted due to restrictions and walk with his footballing reputation pretty much still glowing with positivity. It would make zero sense for him to stay on in a club where by Turkish's accounts he has little to no influence in the decisions that run the footballing side. Especially when things are going bad. Sounds stupid to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Do you not think Reed is earning alot? I do. If Reed is paid a lot, he should be held responsible for others mistakes...which slightly contradicts your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Mlg has finally flipped. Let's be honest though it doesn't actually matter who is in charge, what matters is that it clearly is not working anywhere near as good as it should do. Our transfer cock ups in the summer could well mean our relegation and we would only have those who made those decisions to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Well that goes against what Cortese said, as he said in public interview that he ultimately make the decision. I don't think it is unreasonable to think he is doing that after considering that of the coaching, scouting and medical departments including the likes of Adkins, Reed and Mitchell. No doubt he ultimately authorises the signing of the cheque. That's different to deciding which player is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Rather than petty insults (as usual), explain why it isn't. I already have. You said this: Just because Reed is in charge of the recruitment department (along with three other departments) it doesn't mean he is making recruitment decisions. If you're going to make outlandish and unrealistic statements like that, its up to you to back it up with facts and not your own pie-eyed individual views. You have to prove your point. You do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 If Reed is paid a lot, he should be held responsible for others mistakes...which slightly contradicts your point. Well if he has as much power as some here claim he should also be credited for his part in all the good stuff that has also happened since his appointment in April 2010. - category 1 status for the academy - promotion to the Premier League If he has enough power to be blame for the problems this season, he also had enough power to be involved in the good things that have happened at our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 If you're going to make outlandish and unrealistic statements like that, its up to you to back it up with facts and not your own pie-eyed individual views. You have to prove your point. You do. Okay, well Cortese has publicly said that ultimately he makes player purchase decisions. He clearly does so on the advice of others, which would include Adkins, Reed, Mitchell, scouting/coaching/medical staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 (edited) We ain't got the players for 433. Our middle 3 don't pull wide to cover the full backs. Our wide forwards the same. Our fall backs aren't good enough, or pacey enough, to deal with being left one on one. Other than that are players suit the system perfectly. And play what? We've looked worse in a 4-4-2 which has seen us lose the midfield and get overrun. Nothing is ideal -its a case of playing the least worst formation. FWIW, I'm not opposed to 4-4-2 but only at home against teams that wont pass us off the park. But many will, including Wigan. Edited 31 October, 2012 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Okay, well Cortese has publicly said that ultimately he makes player purchase decisions. He clearly does so on the advice of others, which would include Adkins, Reed, Mitchell, scouting/coaching/medical staff. Yes, but that's not what you said. Let me repeat what you said. Just because Reed is in charge of the recruitment department (along with three other departments) it doesn't mean he is making recruitment decisions. Totally different to your new track. Totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Well if he has as much power as some here claim he should also be credited for his part in all the good stuff that has also happened since his appointment in April 2010. - category 1 status for the academy - promotion to the Premier League If he has enough power to be blame for the problems this season, he also had enough power to be involved in the good things that have happened at our club. Agree totally. Fact is we overachieved last season and that counts for more than two months' struggles this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Yes, but that's not what you said. Let me repeat what you said. Totally different to your new track. Totally. Not a different track at all. Reed doesn't rubber stamp recruitment decisions, Cortese does on the advice of those I listed (which includes Reed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 (edited) And play what? We've looked worse in a 4-4-2 which has seen us lose the midfield and get overrun. Nothing is ideal -its a case of playing the least worst formation. FWIW, I'm not opposed to 4-4-2 but only at home against teams that wont pass us off the park. Oh ffs. You're banging on about formation generally. I'm talking recruitment. Simply, some dingbat decided to play 433 but we recruited a shedload of players that didn't suit that formation. What we do with these players now is a different subject. Edited 31 October, 2012 by egg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Not a different track at all. Reed doesn't rubber stamp recruitment decisions, Cortese does on the advice of those I listed (which includes Reed). It is a backtrack. Your words: Just because Reed is in charge of the recruitment department (along with three other departments) it doesn't mean he is making recruitment decisions. Rubber stamping is a new phrase from you; one which we weren't discussing. You just introduced that; not me. You previously suggested Reed may not be making recruitment decisions. Is he? Is he making decisions? Even if they only contribute to a transfer committee; is he making decisions? You suggest he may not be. Is he, or isn't he? Or do you not know and are speculating either way, thereby not actually offering an opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Oh ffs. You're banging on about formation generally. I'm talking recruitment. Simply, some dingbat decided to play 433 but recruited a shedload of players that didn't suit that formation. What we do with these players now is a different subject. Thought second half at weekend we looked miles better with 4-3-3 personally. The problem is players making too many personal mistakes not the formation. If we had not made a mistake in the final few minutes of both Manchester games you would not be saying what your saying. With Cork alongside Davis I think we will be a bit better in the middle, have a bit more ability to disrupt attacks. Add to that Ramirez and we should be able to have that bit of quality we need. If Jose didn't do the splits when clearing the ball against Spurs we might have got something. No formation in the world can stop individual mistakes. To quote The Guardian lead sports writer from the weekend "Southampton are proving a dangerous team but they will survive in the Premier League only if they start doing more damage to opponents than themselves". And really that is all it is. We may not be getting results but we are playing well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 It is a backtrack. Your words: Rubber stamping is a new phrase from you; one which we weren't discussing. You just introduced that; not me. You previously suggested Reed may not be making recruitment decisions. Is he? Is he making decisions? Even if they only contribute to a transfer committee; is he making decisions? You suggest he may not be. Is he, or isn't he? Or do you not know and are speculating either way, thereby not actually offering an opinion? It isn't a backtrack at all, scouts/coaches/manager/medical/Reed etc are all advising Cortese. None of them make recruitment decisions, they merely offer opinion, the "recruitment decision" is solely down to Cortese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Not a different track at all. Reed doesn't rubber stamp recruitment decisions, Cortese does on the advice of those I listed (which includes Reed). Rubber stamp/sign the cheque = same thing. If Reed (as the recruitment main man) shouldn't be blamed for putting forward the signings to be rubber stamped, who should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 It isn't a backtrack at all, scouts/coaches/manager/medical/Reed etc are all advising Cortese. None of them make recruitment decisions, they merely offer opinion, the "recruitment decision" is solely down to Cortese. So NC makes the ultimate football decisions as well as the fiscal ones? Don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 It isn't a backtrack at all, scouts/coaches/manager/medical/Reed etc are all advising Cortese. None of them make recruitment decisions, they merely offer opinion, the "recruitment decision" is solely down to Cortese. What utter rubbish. If someone asks you your opinion about anything, can you honestly say you are not making a decision about it? If Cortese were to ask Reed to decide which player he prefers between two recruitment possibilities: is that truly not a decision being made by Reed? Desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 So NC makes the ultimate football decisions as well as the fiscal ones? Don't think so. MLG has an inability to admit he's been wrong; despite doing it on so many occasions. Bless him. He'll claim he's bored soon to engineer his way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 If Reed (as the recruitment main man) shouldn't be blamed for putting forward the signings to be rubber stamped, who should? I listed more than just Reed that would be advising Cortese. Adkins, Reed, Mitchell, coaching/scouting/medical team would all have input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 So NC makes the ultimate football decisions as well as the fiscal ones? Don't think so. They are the same thing. The football staff purchasing decisions involve large sums of money, so it is only right that the chairman has the final say as he is ultimately in charge of the money. Cortese has stated as such in public interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 MLG has an inability to admit he's been wrong; despite doing it on so many occasions. Bless him. He'll claim he's bored soon to engineer his way out. I'm not going to admit I'm wrong when I don't think I am. Why have you not asked Turkish to admit he was wrong earlier? He claimed that Reed said he was the "head of recruitment", the article Turkish linked to said no such thing. Paul Mitchell is the scouting and recruitment manager at Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 I listed more than just Reed that would be advising Cortese. Adkins, Reed, Mitchell, coaching/scouting/medical team would all have input. Which one person carries the can for recruitment if not the man in charge of recruitment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 I'm not going to admit I'm wrong when I don't think I am. Why have you not asked Turkish to admit he was wrong earlier? He claimed that Reed said he was the "head of recruitment", the article Turkish linked to said no such thing. Paul Mitchell is the scouting and recruitment manager at Saints. You ignored my earlier question. And you are wrong; you're just incapable of recognising or accepting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 What utter rubbish. If someone asks you your opinion about anything, can you honestly say you are not making a decision about it? If Cortese were to ask Reed to decide which player he prefers between two recruitment possibilities: is that truly not a decision being made by Reed? Desperate. What Cortese decides is ultimately the clubs recruitment decision, all the scouting/coaching/medical team do is give advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 You ignored my earlier question. And you are wrong; you're just incapable of recognising or accepting it. Which earlier question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Which one person carries the can for recruitment if not the man in charge of recruitment? Ultimately it is Cortese, all everyone else does in the process is give advice to Cortese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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