egg Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 The recruitment in the Rees era has been massively successful I'm the most part I would say really? Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Our budget was doubled on a player we arguably didn't need to the detriment of players we did. Are you seriously saying we needed Gaston more than a top notch left back and centre back? No one attacking player can compensate for a poor defensive unit. Did you purposely ignore my post ?? Obviously you can prove the Gaston signing was directly at the expense of a LB and CB ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 really? Who? Pretty much everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 One glimpse at his CV shows he isn't exactly an amazing footballing intellectual. - Former FA Technical Director - Authored the FA's official coaching manual - Set up the Centre of Excellence programme - Part of England setup at three World Cups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 October, 2012 The recruitment in the Rees era has been massively successful I'm the most part I would say Not really. He joined in 2010 and the core of the side which won promtion the following season was already in place. Remember, we only signed Butterield, Richardson and Guly thst summer and Jonno Quick in the January, another last minute signing. Remember the shambles last summer with trying to sign a centre half when it was clear we needed one? I'll give him his due, Cork and Sharp were great signings. This summer, well, a clear faliure to address our weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Did you purposely ignore my post ?? Obviously you can prove the Gaston signing was directly at the expense of a LB and CB ? You think we could have afforded 12m of defenders having spent 12m on Gaston? Obviously you can "prove" that we could? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Everytime they're put to me? Two of the have been in the last 3 days, one of which was tonight. when have they been put to me?! So 4-4-2 worked on Sunday then? No it was an utter shambles. And we've been switching it around this season -you either choose or fail not to see it. Its no different from the NPC where we played a diamond the majority of the time, only occasionally switching to 4-4-2. Indeed, when NA did tinker, everyone was in uproar i.e. Donny away. Indeed there were murmurings that the players were also uncomfortable with the chopping and changing. Keep plodding along, though. Don't let get it in the way of your agenda... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Not really. He joined in 2010 and the core of the side which won promtion the following season was already in place. Remember, we only signed Butterield, Richardson and Guly thst summer and Jonno Quick in the January, another last minute signing. Remember the shambles last summer with trying to sign a centre half when it was clear we needed one? I'll give him his due, Cork and Sharp were great signings. This summer, well, some really odd business. Well. I would say the players that came in like sharp... Who was wanted in the summer were excellent That is of corse if you really believe he is solely responsible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Everytime they're put to me? Two of the have been in the last 3 days, one of which was tonight. when have they been put to me?! Ok. Do you think Les Reed told Adkins to play 4-4-2 against Fulham and Spurs? Do you think Les Reed gave Adkins the nod to change tactics mid game against Wigan? I know what Adkins said about the whole 4-3-3 thing after West Ham, but the fact is we have changed tactics/formation a number of times this year. I'm genuinely interested to hear whose idea you think this was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 October, 2012 - Former FA Technical Director - Authored the FA's official coaching manual - Set up the Centre of Excellence programme - Part of England setup at three World Cups So is Howard Wilkinson. Do you want him here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Well. I would say the players that came in like sharp... Who was wanted in the summer were excellent That is of corse if you really believe he is solely responsible I said Sharp was an excellent signing didn't I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 really? Who? The signings last summer and in January helped the clubs gain a second promotion. Cork, Hooiveld, Sharp, Tadanari Lee, Fox. This summer what is wrong with Ramirez, Gazzaniga, Clyne, Davis, Mayuka, Boruc, Yoshida? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 So is Howard Wilkinson. Do you want him here? That was one point from a list of four in response to this comment... One glimpse at his CV shows he isn't exactly an amazing footballing intellectual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Pretty much everyone Who? See Turkish posts on this. Reed has not overseen a successful recruitment campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Who? See Turkish posts on this. Reed has not overseen a successful recruitment campaign. Turkish is everyone He's got as much of an agenda as anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 October, 2012 So 4-4-2 worked on Sunday then? No it was an utter shambles. And we've been switching it around this season -you either choose or fail not to see it. Its no different from the NPC where we played a diamond the majority of the time, only occasionally switching to 4-4-2. Indeed, when NA did tinker, everyone was in uproar i.e. Donny away. Indeed there were murmurings that the players were also uncomfortable with the chopping and changing. Keep plodding along, though. Don't let get it in the way of your agenda... There we go again. Agendas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 (edited) Who? See Turkish posts on this. Reed has not overseen a successful recruitment campaign. I seem to remember celebrating promotion last season having signed Cork, Hooiveld, Sharp, Tadanari Lee and Fox. If Reed has as much influence as some are suggesting on transfers, does he not deserve credit for these signings? What problems do you have with Ramirez, Rodriguez, Gazzaniga, Clyne, Davis, Mayuka, Boruc and Yoshida? Edited 30 October, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 There we go again. Agendas. If you keep sidestepping inconvenient facts, you're either incredibly dim or trying to fit things - the latter being the textbook definition of having an agenda. Nope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 There we go again. Agendas. Top wumming! Ignore the valid point, avoid the question on formations again and whine about the agenda comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 The signings last summer and in January helped the clubs gain a second promotion. Cork, Hooiveld, Sharp, Tadanari Lee, Fox. This summer what is wrong with Ramirez, Gazzaniga, Clyne, Davis, Mayuka, Boruc, Yoshida? Our "buy 5 strikers and hope a couple work" policy was just a bit silly. You reckon that lot and JR with what we had was sensible? We also extended contracts all over the place. We're stuck with all sorts of players on crazy contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 (edited) Who? See Turkish posts on this. Reed has not overseen a successful recruitment campaign. Ok here who I think have been good signings. Of course we could and Gould have done better but these have been good signings IMO.. Some of which for services in the npc Hooiveld Fox Cork Sharp Gazza Clyne Davis Ramirez Mayuka Jury out on Yosh Rodriguez price tag Boruc Lee Not good De ridder Forte Off the top of my head Also, seeing as he basically, apparently runs the clubs Have to credit him with re signing Lallana Fonte Lambert Morgan JWP Edited 30 October, 2012 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 October, 2012 (edited) I seem to remember celebrating promotion last season having signed Cork, Hooiveld, Sharp, Tadanari Lee and Fox. If Reed has as much influence as some are suggesting on transfers, does he not deserve credit for this signings? What problems do you have with Ramirez, Rodriguez, Gazzaniga, Clyne, Davis, Mayuka, Boruc and Yoshida? I said Sharp and Cork were good signings. Lee played about 4 games before being injured for the rest of the season and Hooliveld was a last minute gamble after we'd failed to land Jemmel, Gorkss and Fontaine. No problem with the attacking players signed, however Do you beleive the defence was adequately reinforced? And are you going to admit you were wrong yet again, this time about Reed being in charge of recruitment? Edited 30 October, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Ok here who I think have been good signings. Of course we could and Gould have done better but these have been good signings IMO.. Some of which for services in the npc Hooiveld Fox Cork Sharp Gazza Clyne Davis Ramirez Mayuka Jury out on Yosh Rodriguez price tag Boruc Lee Not good De ridder Forte Off the top of my head Also, seeing as he basically, apparently runs the clubs Have to credit him with re signing Lallana Fonte Lambert Morgan JWP That is quite a good hit rate then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Top wumming! Ignore the valid point, avoid the question on formations again and whine about the agenda comment! If you keep sidestepping inconvenient facts, you're either incredibly dim or trying to fit things - the latter being the textbook definition of having an agenda. Nope? It's quite evident that we have a policy which Adkins is trying to stick to, he said himself he is 'we have a policy at this club we are doing our best to adhere to' I would imagine he has to play 4-3-3 whenever possible, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 It's quite evident that we have a policy which Adkins is trying to stick to, he said himself he is 'we have a policy at this club we are doing our best to adhere to' I would imagine he has to play 4-3-3 whenever possible, An Adkins has said, continues to say many many times... Even tonight that the team and selections is all on him and no one else Unless he is lying....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Turkish is everyone He's got as much of an agenda as anyone. Eh? I don't give a bollo@s about apparent agendas. I simply think Reed has performed poorly on recruitment and NA is the fall guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Ok here who I think have been good signings. Of course we could and Gould have done better but these have been good signings IMO.. Some of which for services in the npc Hooiveld Fox Cork Sharp Gazza Clyne Davis Ramirez Mayuka Jury out on Yosh Rodriguez price tag Boruc Lee Not good De ridder Forte Off the top of my head Also, seeing as he basically, apparently runs the clubs Have to credit him with re signing Lallana Fonte Lambert Morgan JWP The tip 4 of those were good in the championship, the bottom 5, apart from Davis are unproven and have played about 20 premier league games between them!! The jury is still very much out on them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 October, 2012 An Adkins has said, continues to say many many times... Even tonight that the team and selections is all on him and no one else Unless he is lying....? What process is he doing his best to follow then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 And are you going to admit you were wrong yet again, this time about Reed being in charge of recruitment? He did not use the phrase you said he did. Mitchell is head of recruitment, something you said Reed claimed. So it is you that is wrong, not me. A headmaster is in charge of all departments at a school, he is not however the "head of Maths". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 What process is he doing his best to follow then? E says the first team and selections is all on him... All him and no one else Everything about the 1st team is all Adkins.. Fair bloody play to the fella for openly taking responsibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 31 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 31 October, 2012 He did not use the phrase you said he did. Mitchell is head of recruitment, something you said Reed claimed. So it is you that is wrong, not me. A headmaster is in charge of all departments at a school, he is not however the "head of Maths". Okay so when he said he was responsible for 5 departments one of which was recruitment and scouting what he actually meant was Paul Mitchell is responsible for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Ok here who I think have been good signings. Of course we could and Gould have done better but these have been good signings IMO.. Some of which for services in the npc Hooiveld Fox Cork Sharp Gazza Clyne Davis Ramirez Mayuka Jury out on Yosh Rodriguez price tag Boruc Lee Not good De ridder Forte Off the top of my head Also, seeing as he basically, apparently runs the clubs Have to credit him with re signing Lallana Fonte Lambert Morgan JWP That is not a sensible balance. It's top heavy on attackers, and weak on quality defenders. The bottom line is we have a squad that struggled at times last season and has been outclassed this season. The recruitment man must carry the can, not the fella who has to make something from the wrong parts. As for contracts you omit Barnard and Butterfield amongst others. Only an idiot would have given those extensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 31 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 31 October, 2012 E says the first team and selections is all on him... All him and no one else Everything about the 1st team is all Adkins.. Fair bloody play to the fella for openly taking responsibility Sorry, what process is he following? You know the one he said he was doing his best to after the West Ham game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBenali Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 He did not use the phrase you said he did. Mitchell is head of recruitment, something you said Reed claimed. So it is you that is wrong, not me. A headmaster is in charge of all departments at a school, he is not however the "head of Maths". But I'm sure the Headmaster would have a say on any news Maths teachers that are recruited.... For what it's worth, I think Reed has done a decent job, all things considered. Although it is a worry that a DoF can have such influence on the first team ahead of Adkins, as has been said, these things only come out when we're playing badly, and are overlooked when we're doing well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 It's quite evident that we have a policy which Adkins is trying to stick to, he said himself he is 'we have a policy at this club we are doing our best to adhere to' I would imagine he has to play 4-3-3 whenever possible, We went through this last time - Adkins has been a long-time believer in 4-3-3, utilising it at Scunny during the season he kept them up in the NPC - and arguably the decision to go with 4-3-3 has been vindicated this season. Each time we've tried something else, we've looked much worse. We 'have a policy' is Adkinspeak for f**k off, its none of your business. If you are resorting to interpreting Adkinspeak literally :lol:, perhaps I had you wrong and you are a bit on the dim side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 We went through this last time - Adkins has been a long-time believer in 4-3-3, utilising it at Scunny during the season he kept them up in the NPC - and arguably the decision to go with 4-3-3 has been vindicated this season. Each time we've tried something else, we've looked much worse. We 'have a policy' is Adkinspeak for f**k off, its none of your business. If you are resorting to interpreting Adkinspeak literally :lol:, perhaps I had you wrong and you are a bit on the dim side. So of NA wants the 433 how can it be his fault that he ain't got the players for the system and been given loads of central strikers instead? Perhaps the recruitment men messed up.. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 E says the first team and selections is all on him... All him and no one else Everything about the 1st team is all Adkins.. Fair bloody play to the fella for openly taking responsibility Exactly - refreshing to hear him speak directly, though it is very rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 (edited) Okay so when he said he was responsible for 5 departments one of which was recruitment and scouting what he actually meant was Paul Mitchell is responsible for it. A headmaster is ultimately responsible for the Maths department at a school, he isn't however involved in day to day running and management of the Maths department. That is down to the head of Maths. Paul Mitchell is on the clubs website as the "scouting and recruitment manager", his previous job title was head of recruitment at MK Dons. It is YOU that said Les Reed claimed to be the "head of recruitment", when you haven't been able to link to any such thing. You then have the cheek to ask me to "admit I was wrong"! Edited 31 October, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 A headmaster is ultimately responsible for the Maths department at a school, he isn't however involved in day to day running and management of the Maths department. That is down to the head of Maths. Paul Mitchell is labeled on the clubs website of "scouting and recruitment manager", his previous job title was head of recruitment at MK Dons. It is YOU that said Les Reed claimed to be the "head of recruitment", when you haven't been able to link to any such thing. You then have the cheek to ask me to "admit I was wrong"! What's all this maths dept nonsense? Scools and football clubs are different. Football clubs are ultimately judged on the results produced by players, and schools by pupils. Footy clubs buy their players, schools don't buy their pupils. The maths analogy is almost as bad as our recruitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 What's all this maths dept nonsense? Scools and football clubs are different. Football clubs are ultimately judged on the results produced by players, and schools by pupils. Footy clubs buy their players, schools don't buy their pupils. The maths analogy is almost as bad as our recruitment. Just because Reed is in charge of the recruitment department (along with three other departments) it doesn't mean he is making recruitment decisions. In the same way a headteacher is ultimately in charge of a maths department, he isn't deciding the lessons plans for each year group in maths. Paul Mitchell is the "scouting recruitment manager" and his previous role at MK Dons was "head of recruitment". What do you think his job entails at Saints? It is Turkish that claimed Reed was the "head of recruitment". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maysie Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Just because Reed is in charge of the recruitment department (along with three other departments) it doesn't mean he is making recruitment decisions. In the same way a headteacher is ultimately in charge of a maths department bit, he isn't deciding the lessons plans for each year group in maths. You're digging a hole mate, this is the kind of situation when you should just stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 31 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 31 October, 2012 (edited) Just because Reed is in charge of the recruitment department (along with three other departments) it doesn't mean he is making recruitment decisions. In the same way a headteacher is ultimately in charge of a maths department bit, he isn't deciding the lessons plans for each year group in maths. So we have a director that's responsible for the recruitment department that isn't responsible for who we recruit?! I was right, he has for the cushiest job in the world! So who is responsible? Is it Cortese? Is it Adkins or is it all on this Paul mitchell chap? Edited 31 October, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 - Former FA Technical Director - Authored the FA's official coaching manual - Set up the Centre of Excellence programme - Part of England setup at three World Cups Well we all know how well England have done over these years don't we ? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 So of NA wants the 433 how can it be his fault that he ain't got the players for the system and been given loads of central strikers instead? Perhaps the recruitment men messed up.. . That's another issue. I was specifically talking about formations. FWIW, I have more time for arguments that we f**ked up in the window. Its plain to see. We did, though until the facts come to light, its unclear how far the transfer committee is responsible and how far circumstance i.e. the difficulties faced by a newly promoted side to recruit quality is responsible for this failure. Clearly the transfer committee can't wash its hands of responsibility but there are also good mitigating circumstances which are either ignored or discounted each time people call for heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 You're digging a hole mate, this is the kind of situation when you should just stop Am I? Explain why that analogy doesn't work? It is Turkish that claimed Reed was "head of recruitment", not me. Paul Mitchell is the "recruitment and scouting manager" listed on the club website and previous job title at his last job was "head of recruitment". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Just because Reed is in charge of the recruitment department (along with three other departments) it doesn't mean he is making recruitment decisions. In the same way a headteacher is ultimately in charge of a maths department, he isn't deciding the lessons plans for each year group in maths. Paul Mitchell is the "scouting recruitment manager" and his previous role at MK Dons was "head of recruitment". What do you think his job entails at Saints? It is Turkish that claimed Reed was the "head of recruitment". So we agree NA isn't at fault for recruitment. Good to hear. It's clear to me from all the links that Reed is the recruitment boss. I'd hazard a guess that Mitchell is one of his staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Just because Reed is in charge of the recruitment department (along with three other departments) it doesn't mean he is making recruitment decisions. :lol::lol: Oh my giddyup. That's brilliant, even by MLG's brown-nosing standards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 So we have a director that's responsible for the recruitment department that isn't making decisions on who we recruit?! A head teacher is ultimately in charge of the maths department. He doesn't write the lessons plans for maths does he? No, the head of Maths does. What do you think Paul Mitchell's job as "scouting and recruitment manager" is? :lol::lol: Oh my giddyup. That's brilliant, even by MLG's brown-nosing standards! So who is responsible? Is it Cortese? Is it Adkins or is it all on this Paul mitchell chap? Cortese has said publicly that ultimately he makes the recruitment decisions. But is is likely to be after taking advise from Adkins, Reed, Mitchell and the other coaching/scouting/medical staff. To blame it solely on Reed if a signing or signing strategy turns out to be wrong is harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 That's another issue. I was specifically talking about formations. FWIW, I have more time for arguments that we f**ked up in the window. Its plain to see. We did, though until the facts come to light, its unclear how far the transfer committee is responsible and how far circumstance i.e. the difficulties faced by a newly promoted side to recruit quality is responsible for this failure. Clearly the transfer committee can't wash its hands of responsibility but there are also good mitigating circumstances which are either ignored or discounted each time people call for heads. I was responding to the suggestion that NA wants the 433. Simply, if that's the case, he's been given the wrong players by recruitment. That's Reed department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maysie Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Am I? Explain why that analogy doesn't work? It is Turkish that claimed Reed was "head of recruitment", not me. Paul Mitchell is the "recruitment and scouting manager" listed on the club website and previous job title at his last job was "head of recruitment". Well for one the infrastructure of a school and a football club are not that obvious as items for comparison. In fact it is difficult to compare football clubs with most organisations/industries. I thought of an example of this the other day regarding the Boruc incident. A lot of people on the thread were defending him saying he was given some and was right to retaliate. I used to work in a call centre if customer had a go at me and I retaliated with foul and abusive language I would be sacked. Why shouldn't the same apply to Boruc? Because sports/entertainment industries are different to everything else. The customer is hardly ever right and the staff have the final say. I realise I've digressed, but wanted to make that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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