landford.saint Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 With Fox losing his player so often, what do people think about giving Luke Shaw a chance. I know he is young and relataively inexperienced, (but most of our squad have never played at this level before), but my limited experience of watching him play he is quality If I was manager (and we'd be in seroius trouble if I was) I would give him a run out for a couple of games. I understand he has been ill lately but is now well, what about seeing what this lad can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 By listening to the fans who went to Stevenage, he wasn't very good in that game. I suspect he'll play tomorrow night and we'll have another chance to have a look at him. He must be considered to bring in Shaw at some point this season, or I can't imagine we would have let Harding go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landford.saint Posted 29 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 29 October, 2012 Wasn't at Stevenage so have to take others views on this, however he can't be worse than Fox surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 How many fans have seen luke Shaw play in a first team match? Are they basing this clamour to see him thrown into the premier league based reputation and the theory that he must be good because a newspaper said Arsenal want him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 This is a too big a step up for most of our young players and Shaw is not ready just yet.Problem is how do you get them ready without playing them? Think we reached the Premiership too quickly for the likes of Prowse, Shaw, Reeves and Chambers and They needed more games to adjust to the players and system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingwing Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 Went to Stevenage, going forward Shaw was alright (though lacked confidence) defensively he was a bit raw/uncomposed. Him and Seaborne were massively at fault for Stevenage's goal, between them they conspired to muck it up for us. Anyway he's not ready yet, playing him now would absolutely destroy him as he needs more time to develop his awareness and positioning (as well as tackling and clearing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 With Fox losing his player so often, what do people think about giving Luke Shaw a chance. I know he is young and relataively inexperienced, (but most of our squad have never played at this level before), but my limited experience of watching him play he is quality If I was manager (and we'd be in seroius trouble if I was) I would give him a run out for a couple of games. I understand he has been ill lately but is now well, what about seeing what this lad can do. Luke Shaw looked out of his depth defensively against Stevenage, he'll have to improve his decision making and defending significantly to get near the first team if that's any indicator. He was ill for about 3 days after the Stevenage match, not sure how that would have made him better at defensive decision making, and it didn't seem to affect his ability to dribble with the ball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 I have seen him play twice in the first team. He looks better going forward than defending at this stage in his development. I would say Fox is better right now - although Fox's positioning is often bizarre he does at least play a part in quite a few of our goals with his deliveries. If Richardson is fit I would go with him at RB and Clyne at LB sooner than throwing Shaw in. Not many 17 year-old defenders play in the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 Went to Stevenage, going forward Shaw was alright (though lacked confidence) defensively he was a bit raw/uncomposed. Him and Seaborne were massively at fault for Stevenage's goal, between them they conspired to muck it up for us. Anyway he's not ready yet, playing him now would absolutely destroy him as he needs more time to develop his awareness and positioning (as well as tackling and clearing). Saw the same thing as me then ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 Can't see him being any worse than Fox, however reeves has come on left back twice now, so that might be telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 Wasn't at Stevenage so have to take others views on this, however he can't be worse than Fox surely. There are a lot of players not as good as Fox, have you not noticed ? There are about 3 leagues worth in England alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 I have seen him play twice in the first team. He looks better going forward than defending at this stage in his development. I would say Fox is better right now - although Fox's positioning is often bizarre he does at least play a part in quite a few of our goals with his deliveries. If Richardson is fit I would go with him at RB and Clyne at LB sooner than throwing Shaw in. Not many 17 year-old defenders play in the Premier League. I'm pretty sure most of that is down to our system, I mean when we get a goal kick the full backs are pushing up to the half way line and they pull wide and push up as much as possible. When we've got the ball we're basically 2-6-2 and that will ALWAYS leave us exposed out wide at the back - Fox doesn't have any of the same problems positionally (and also doesn't hit Hollywood diagonals) when playing for Scotland in a more defensive back 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 How many fans have seen luke Shaw play in a first team match? Are they basing this clamour to see him thrown into the premier league based reputation and the theory that he must be good because a newspaper said Arsenal want him. I saw him in the pre-season game on Channel 5. He looked OK. No better or worse than Fox. But not much to go on, so I'll leave it to Adkins to make that choice. The fact Fox has been subbed twice (both when playing on Adkins side of the field) shows Adkins has issues with him, so if Shaw is ready he will play. If he's not playing its because he' s not ready (or fit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 I'm pretty sure most of that is down to our system, I mean when we get a goal kick the full backs are pushing up to the half way line and they pull wide and push up as much as possible. When we've got the ball we're basically 2-6-2 and that will ALWAYS leave us exposed out wide at the back - Fox doesn't have any of the same problems positionally (and also doesn't hit Hollywood diagonals) when playing for Scotland in a more defensive back 4. does he ever get tight to the wide man when playing for Scotland or does he drop deep to prevent him being exposed by pace as he does for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 however he can't be worse than Fox surely. Can't see him being any worse than Fox Lee Molyneux was worse than Fox So was Steven O'Halloran and Jelle Van Damme and Lee Todd and Jermaine Wright and Lloyd James and Chris Makin and Tomasz Hajto I don't rate Fox either but this bizarre logic that he is the worst fullback ever to walk onto a football pitch baffles me. Of course Shaw could be (and probably is) worse than Fox, that's why he isn't playing. When we get beat 8-0 at home to Norwich, then we can start talking about things, 'not possibly being any worse.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbojones10 Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 why not play ben reeves at LB looked ok when he came on yesterday. Fox has gone in the head, confidence in the gutter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 does he ever get tight to the wide man when playing for Scotland or does he drop deep to prevent him being exposed by pace as he does for us? He starts defensive and stays defensive. For all the people saying Bale gave him a hard time against Wales, he was always there jockeying and making Bale beat him, and never out of the game chasing back from half way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 I think he's injured isn't he? He was pulled out of the recent internationals due to an injury. Good player though, but he's not the sort we need in there at the mo. We need experience at the back, not more youthfulness. Fox is probably as good as it gets until January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 The whole idea of introducing youth and inexperience into a dodgy defence is quite tragic. I didn't like the idea that a 20 year old with a handful of games from L2 should be goalkeeper behind a seriously leaking defence. However good prospects either Gazzaniga or Shaw, playing in a poorly functioning defence is not going to improve the. Instead they may have the worst experience of their lives and take months to recover confidence. It was a bad mistake not to sign anoher left back and a centreback, but now we have to live with the decisions we took. I wouldn't be too hopeful about the january window either, since it has proved to be a fairly poor pond to fish in over the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 I'm pretty sure most of that is down to our system, I mean when we get a goal kick the full backs are pushing up to the half way line and they pull wide and push up as much as possible. When we've got the ball we're basically 2-6-2 and that will ALWAYS leave us exposed out wide at the back - Fox doesn't have any of the same problems positionally (and also doesn't hit Hollywood diagonals) when playing for Scotland in a more defensive back 4. does he ever get tight to the wide man when playing for Scotland or does he drop deep to prevent him being exposed by pace as he does for us? He starts defensive and stays defensive. For all the people saying Bale gave him a hard time against Wales, he was always there jockeying and making Bale beat him, and never out of the game chasing back from half way. I agree with both of you, sort of. Fox is clearly painfully aware of his limitations as a one-on-one defender. So he covers them by standing about five yards from his centre back when adopting defensive positions. This means he hardly ever gets beaten on the outside. It also means there is absolutely no need for the attacker to beat him on the outside as he has enough time to saunter to wherever he wants with the ball anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 I think he's injured isn't he? He was pulled out of the recent internationals due to an injury. Good player though, but he's not the sort we need in there at the mo. We need experience at the back, not more youthfulness. Fox is probably as good as it gets until January. His withdrawal from the internationals was taken by some to be "evidence" that he'd be starting yesterday - or if you're me, more "evidence" that we have some idiot fans who will read meaning into absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 Fox has made some gaff's this season but generally has done OK going forwards. Dont think there are any defenders of ours this season that havent made any gaffs though. Fox has also been injured so prob why he didnt last the 90 mjins yesterday. Reeves came on and did OK I thought. He seemed to be fairly high up the pitch at times and I thought he was going to get caught out leaving Lennon so much space but it didnt happen. Shaw has been injured too but I reckon he would of got a break before Reeves would had he been fit. He was sat up with the players that didnt play in the directors bit. Lee, Seaborne, DeRidder and Shaw and a few others were all there at the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 Shaw was injured but was back in full training on Friday. Would expect him to play vs Leeds. He is a left back. Ben Reeves used to play LB but has been converted into a no 10 which is where he plays in the U21 team. FWIW he was on loan at Dagenham in L2 for part of last season and struggled to get into theior team (not saying he isn't a good player just giving some background). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 we'd all like to think that some new talent would emerge... come on and play a blinder, clear a ball off the line.....and maybe storm forward in the last minute and score the winning goal....... ANSWER: re-read Roy of the Rovers everyone. I hope... after all this hype....that Luke Shaw is the good prospect we've all been led to believe.....but most of our present squad all have more than 100.....some several hundred ....games under their belts ..(at different levels) and the thought that we might suddenly find a new "star" ..(another Gareth Bale?)..is really putting unecessary and unwanted pressure on a lad who needs time to develop at the Prem. level ...as do all the rest of the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 I agree with both of you, sort of. Fox is clearly painfully aware of his limitations as a one-on-one defender. So he covers them by standing about five yards from his centre back when adopting defensive positions. This means he hardly ever gets beaten on the outside. It also means there is absolutely no need for the attacker to beat him on the outside as he has enough time to saunter to wherever he wants with the ball anyway. this is exactly what I mean. He never commits because he knows he is not quick enough should the winger take him on the outside. He makes sure he isn't done like a kipper and made to look poor. Unfortunately for him there are fans that can see exactly what he does so he looks poor anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 It was noticeable Fox shuffled over as a centre back when Tottenham attacked down their left with Lallana dropping back into the left back position. This failed miserably several times when Tottenham counter attacked and exploited the space by quickly switching play. This must have been under team coaching instruction and the player cannot take the blame for that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 With Fox losing his player so often, what do people think about giving Luke Shaw a chance. I know he is young and relataively inexperienced, (but most of our squad have never played at this level before), but my limited experience of watching him play he is quality If I was manager (and we'd be in seroius trouble if I was) I would give him a run out for a couple of games. I understand he has been ill lately but is now well, what about seeing what this lad can do. Urgh. Fox stuck with his man - Lennon - and it was Lallana that got continually done by his - Walker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 29 October, 2012 Share Posted 29 October, 2012 ANSWER: re-read Roy of the Rovers everyone. Is Roy a free-agent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chivvy1664 Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Wayne Bridge is getting rave reviews from my mate who is a brighton fan. On loan till jan I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 How many fans have seen luke Shaw play in a first team match? Are they basing this clamour to see him thrown into the premier league based reputation and the theory that he must be good because a newspaper said Arsenal want him. Yes, but surely you agree that leeds away would be a good test by which to guage him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Yes, but surely you agree that leeds away would be a good test by which to guage him. I'd rather see Ben Reeves get a chance; right now he has a much better chance of being a genuine replacement for Fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Urgh. Fox stuck with his man - Lennon - and it was Lallana that got continually done by his - Walker. The point is that Fox shouldn't be sticking with Lennon wherever he goes. There should be an understanding between the full back and all of his midfield such that rampaging players like Walker are picked up by the full back, while the likes of Lennon get passed on either to the left midfielder or inside to the central midfielders. Lallana defensive duties were poor, but he shouldn't be having to sprint back from the halfway line each time to cover a run; we should be defending as a team, not just simply picking one man and rigidly sticking to him like glue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Yes, but surely you agree that leeds away would be a good test by which to guage him. Reeves seems to be ahead of him so i'd give him a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Wayne Bridge is getting rave reviews from my mate who is a brighton fan. On loan till jan I think. always thought when fully fit he would be top draw again. People judged him on displays for England and West ham when he was immediately returning from long lay offs. I'd happily take him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 The point is that Fox shouldn't be sticking with Lennon wherever he goes. There should be an understanding between the full back and all of his midfield such that rampaging players like Walker are picked up by the full back, while the likes of Lennon get passed on either to the left midfielder or inside to the central midfielders. Lallana defensive duties were poor, but he shouldn't be having to sprint back from the halfway line each time to cover a run; we should be defending as a team, not just simply picking one man and rigidly sticking to him like glue. Obviously men are passed on, but if Walker goes forward, Lallana is exactly the person that should be following him. If that means running back from the half way line, so be it. Lallana did chase back, unfortunately his starting position wasn't great at times, and he doesn't have the pace to recover, especially against someone as quick a Walker. Lallana did leave us exposed, but not easy against the pace they have. Fox should never be left 2 on 1 - he struggles 1 on 1 - but it happens a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammysaint Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Foxs game is built around him being a attacking LB, playing with 2 quality CBs something we dont have for this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 Obviously men are passed on, but if Walker goes forward, Lallana is exactly the person that should be following him. If that means running back from the half way line, so be it. Lallana did chase back, unfortunately his starting position wasn't great at times, and he doesn't have the pace to recover, especially against someone as quick a Walker. Lallana did leave us exposed, but not easy against the pace they have. Fox should never be left 2 on 1 - he struggles 1 on 1 - but it happens a lot. As I said; Lallana's defensive duties were poor. But similarly Fox stuck like glue to Lennon. It was fairly clear Lallana wasn't going to get back in time to cut out Walker so Fox should have stepped in, instead of following Lennon around like a lost sheep. Lallana has been at fault in allowing 2 on 1 situations, no doubt; the few against Tottenham were also bad defendinding as a team by Saints; Tottenham exploiting huge holes down the left flank where Fox should have been patrolling but had been dragged inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 30 October, 2012 Share Posted 30 October, 2012 (edited) Is Roy a free-agent? nope, but we've already signed Tubby Morton apparently Edited 30 October, 2012 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 31 October, 2012 Share Posted 31 October, 2012 Anyone who actually went to Leeds yesterday have anything to add to the "Luke Shaw is better than Fox" argument today ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 1 November, 2012 Share Posted 1 November, 2012 Wayne Bridge is getting rave reviews from my mate who is a brighton fan. On loan till jan I think. ......as did many of our present squad, when we were in NPC last season.... He surely looks good at Brighton, but nowadays we live in different worlds....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 1 November, 2012 Share Posted 1 November, 2012 nope, but we've already signed Tubby Morton apparently LOL nice one, Window Cleaner....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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