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This is also flawed....

The problem is 'the going has got tough' at the wrong time in the wrong league and it seems nobody at the the club has prepared for life in the prem even though we were certainties to get promoted last season.

Regardless of who we've played Adkins has shown that he is incapable of learning from his mistakes even though he spouts about doing so after every game....I admit he has done brilliantly in getting us here (pardew also has to take some credit) but does that qualify him to be a good premiership manager?

When you move up a league clubs tend to buy players that will have a bit more experience in that league and also offload players that probably won't cut the mustard,we failed to do this and now we are paying the price, basically we are a championship club playing against established premiership teams and although we will nick a point off of them now and again it will not be enough to ensure our survival, how anybody at the club thought that this would be sufficient is beyond me.

As a fan,of course you want your club to be doing well but crossing your fingers,being sentimental about a managers past achievements and praying is not really a strategy I would employ to decide if a manager is good enough to keep his job,experience is everything in this league and its something we have zero of in Adkins and his squad,we are rubbish and it ain't going to get a lot better no matter how much you pray.

 

I would love it if he was doing well because that would mean saints were doing well but the reality is he isn't doing well and although there have been a couple of flashes of excitement the majority has been very very poor. In our last stint in the top flight although I was realistic enough to know we would always be strugglers you always felt that you had a chance in every game we played but this time around I don't get that feeling,I don't have the confidence in the team,manager,the formation or the tactics.

 

To me somebody has failed badly in pre season,something has gone badly wrong since the last day of last season and if we don't start looking convincing by the time the transfer window opens then who will want to sign for a club that look certainties to get relegated?,which decent players would sign for a manager who looks way out of his depth?

We need an attractive figure head,somebody who can instill confidence in the players we have and the players yet to sign and as sad as it is that man is not Adkins,he can spout as much dodgy poetry as he wants but that isn't going to get the job done I'm afraid,we need a fresh start,I'm just glad that its not my decision to make.

 

 

Spot on.

how I have felt for a considerable time.

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I'd like to see this on Monday...

 

           Boruc

Clyne  Fonte   Yoshida  Reeves

   Schneiderlin  Davis

Mayuka     Ramirez      Lallana

           Lambert

Gazzaniga
Hooiveld
Fox
Ward-Prowse
Cork
Tananari Lee
Rodriguez

 

I like that team. However, picking the eleven is not the main issue. As stated on GSS yesterday, we do not get anywhere near enough to the opposition playmakers; get easlily brushed off the ball and this makes our back 4 look worse than it is. So, with this team Schneiderlin and Davis need to be at their midfield from the off and Lallana especially needs to be 'awake' to their RH side attacks; he's been culpable all season.

Looks good offensively though.

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I like that team. However, picking the eleven is not the main issue. As stated on GSS yesterday, we do not get anywhere near enough to the opposition playmakers; get easlily brushed off the ball and this makes our back 4 look worse than it is. So, with this team Schneiderlin and Davis need to be at their midfield from the off and Lallana especially needs to be 'awake' to their RH side attacks; he's been culpable all season.

Looks good offensively though.

 

I think we will find out very soon that lee is rubbish. One of my mates lives out there and floows Japanese football. Reckons yoshida is quality but lee was average at best.

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This is also flawed....

The problem is 'the going has got tough' at the wrong time in the wrong league and it seems nobody at the the club has prepared for life in the prem even though we were certainties to get promoted last season.

Regardless of who we've played Adkins has shown that he is incapable of learning from his mistakes even though he spouts about doing so after every game....I admit he has done brilliantly in getting us here (pardew also has to take some credit) but does that qualify him to be a good premiership manager?

When you move up a league clubs tend to buy players that will have a bit more experience in that league and also offload players that probably won't cut the mustard,we failed to do this and now we are paying the price, basically we are a championship club playing against established premiership teams and although we will nick a point off of them now and again it will not be enough to ensure our survival, how anybody at the club thought that this would be sufficient is beyond me.

As a fan,of course you want your club to be doing well but crossing your fingers,being sentimental about a managers past achievements and praying is not really a strategy I would employ to decide if a manager is good enough to keep his job,experience is everything in this league and its something we have zero of in Adkins and his squad,we are rubbish and it ain't going to get a lot better no matter how much you pray.

 

I would love it if he was doing well because that would mean saints were doing well but the reality is he isn't doing well and although there have been a couple of flashes of excitement the majority has been very very poor. In our last stint in the top flight although I was realistic enough to know we would always be strugglers you always felt that you had a chance in every game we played but this time around I don't get that feeling,I don't have the confidence in the team,manager,the formation or the tactics.

 

To me somebody has failed badly in pre season,something has gone badly wrong since the last day of last season and if we don't start looking convincing by the time the transfer window opens then who will want to sign for a club that look certainties to get relegated?,which decent players would sign for a manager who looks way out of his depth?

We need an attractive figure head,somebody who can instill confidence in the players we have and the players yet to sign and as sad as it is that man is not Adkins,he can spout as much dodgy poetry as he wants but that isn't going to get the job done I'm afraid,we need a fresh start,I'm just glad that its not my decision to make.

 

I have to agree.

Nigel's decisions generally seem a bit harem scarem. We all know he's learning on the hoof but it's becoming a bit too obvious to everyone else !

The fact that our '5 year plan' came home to roost ahead of schedule may well turn out to be reason that, from top to bottom, the club has just not been quite ready for the prem. There's no doubt that big cash has been spent but it appears to have been some kind of fast track attempt to get us up a level overnight.

Of course it's harsh to call for a new manager at this stage but if you take into account all the new signings, they aren't exactly Nigels promotion squad any more, so a new experienced face in charge may well galvanise our relatively new group of players. What ever happens Adkins is not a bad bloke or a bad manager maybe just a victim of too much too soon.!

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make no mistake WBA are a very good side. Get anything from the game and we will have played very well indeed. Even of we were playing well I'd of marked this game as being tricky. We are not though and I don't have the answers as to how we will win the game. The Matthew Le God side looks close to what most would go for, but in reality its a 4-2-4 formation.

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make no mistake WBA are a very good side. Get anything from the game and we will have played very well indeed. Even of we were playing well I'd of marked this game as being tricky. We are not though and I don't have the answers as to how we will win the game. The Matthew Le God side looks close to what most would go for, but in reality its a 4-2-4 formation.

 

:shakey:

 

Not for me; not away from home, at least. Its far too open; effectively playing with 4 forward-thinking players. At home, I could see time for that formation, without doubt. Away, against a decent and well organised West Brom side, I fear we'd get picked to pieces with that. We need to be tighter than that. For me its:

Boruc

 

Clyne - Yoshida - Fonte - Fox

 

Cork - Schneiderlin - Davis

 

Ramirez - Lallana

 

Lambert

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:shakey:

 

Not for me; not away from home, at least. Its far too open; effectively playing with 4 forward-thinking players. At home, I could see time for that formation, without doubt. Away, against a decent and well organised West Brom side, I fear we'd get picked to pieces with that. We need to be tighter than that. For me its:

Boruc

 

Clyne - Yoshida - Fonte - Fox

 

Cork - Schneiderlin - Davis

 

Ramirez - Lallana

 

Lambert

 

Like the look of that team. Best we've got available at the moment.

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:shakey:

 

Not for me; not away from home, at least. Its far too open; effectively playing with 4 forward-thinking players.

agree with you. We need to be tighter away from home and having Mayuka, a striker as our right midfielder just can't be right. I'd have Ward Prowse in the middle with Davis and Morgan.
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agree with you. We need to be tighter away from home and having Mayuka, a striker as our right midfielder just can't be right. I'd have Ward Prowse in the middle with Davis and Morgan.

 

Probably more likely than expecting Cork to return, to be fair. But I don't think it'll happen, I think we'll have some square pegs in round holes with Lambert and Rodriguez both playing and Lallana and Ramirez shoehorned in somewhere. This is proper judgement time for NA; he's got almost all of his first choice players available to him; what will he put together?

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Probably more likely than expecting Cork to return, to be fair. But I don't think it'll happen, I think we'll have some square pegs in round holes with Lambert and Rodriguez both playing and Lallana and Ramirez shoehorned in somewhere. This is proper judgement time for NA; he's got almost all of his first choice players available to him; what will he put together?

 

I don't think Lambert and Rodriguez will start together. I'm hopeful that we will finally play players in their right positions.

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I don't think Lambert and Rodriguez will start together. I'm hopeful that we will finally play players in their right positions.

 

Me too. And I don't think they should both start, its one or the other, with them playing up front. If they do both start then I'll really be left scratching my head at NA.

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This is also flawed....

The problem is 'the going has got tough' at the wrong time in the wrong league and it seems nobody at the the club has prepared for life in the prem even though we were certainties to get promoted last season.

Regardless of who we've played Adkins has shown that he is incapable of learning from his mistakes even though he spouts about doing so after every game....I admit he has done brilliantly in getting us here (pardew also has to take some credit) but does that qualify him to be a good premiership manager?

When you move up a league clubs tend to buy players that will have a bit more experience in that league and also offload players that probably won't cut the mustard,we failed to do this and now we are paying the price, basically we are a championship club playing against established premiership teams and although we will nick a point off of them now and again it will not be enough to ensure our survival, how anybody at the club thought that this would be sufficient is beyond me.

As a fan,of course you want your club to be doing well but crossing your fingers,being sentimental about a managers past achievements and praying is not really a strategy I would employ to decide if a manager is good enough to keep his job,experience is everything in this league and its something we have zero of in Adkins and his squad,we are rubbish and it ain't going to get a lot better no matter how much you pray.

 

I would love it if he was doing well because that would mean saints were doing well but the reality is he isn't doing well and although there have been a couple of flashes of excitement the majority has been very very poor. In our last stint in the top flight although I was realistic enough to know we would always be strugglers you always felt that you had a chance in every game we played but this time around I don't get that feeling,I don't have the confidence in the team,manager,the formation or the tactics.

 

To me somebody has failed badly in pre season,something has gone badly wrong since the last day of last season and if we don't start looking convincing by the time the transfer window opens then who will want to sign for a club that look certainties to get relegated?,which decent players would sign for a manager who looks way out of his depth?

We need an attractive figure head,somebody who can instill confidence in the players we have and the players yet to sign and as sad as it is that man is not Adkins,he can spout as much dodgy poetry as he wants but that isn't going to get the job done I'm afraid,we need a fresh start,I'm just glad that its not my decision to make.

 

I agree with much of what you say about the manager's limitations. I do think you're under-estimating the team though. If we had a better shape, were better drilled on set pieces, and picked our best players, I reckon we could climb the table. My problem is that I don't believe the present management team have the ability to do this.

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:shakey:

 

Not for me; not away from home, at least. Its far too open; effectively playing with 4 forward-thinking players. At home, I could see time for that formation, without doubt. Away, against a decent and well organised West Brom side, I fear we'd get picked to pieces with that. We need to be tighter than that. For me its:

Boruc

 

Clyne - Yoshida - Fonte - Fox

 

Cork - Schneiderlin - Davis

 

Ramirez - Lallana

 

Lambert

 

Understand the thinking; but reckon it will look less good on the pitch than on paper - you lose more than you gain with it.

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With Ramirez back, the number 10 role is as good as his. If he's ready to start, bring him in and put Lallana back out wide. We're not going to become solid defensively in the next 48 hours, so we need to score goals. Whether it's Ramirez or Lallana, we need someone between the lines to link Central midfield with the front 3. With a tight 3, there's a risk of it going flat and not going anywhere with the ball. Then we give the ball away and leak goals. We're not going to sort ourselves out defensively by packing the team full of defenders

 

This

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that argument is both flawed and boring now.

 

Wotte got us relegated, never showed he had it in him to be successful for us.

 

Adkins has given our best win ration and fastest league climb in a lifetime.

 

 

He has given us two successive promotions ffs.

 

We are struggling, their are problems with defence, gaps left hand side etc.

 

He has shown that he isn't a million miles off in that his team have performed very well for a decent amount of the time in hard games this season. The short bursts of goals against / lack of concentration have cost us.

 

 

I find in a real shame and disappointing that people on here are showing such a lack of respect and appreciation of him and want to cast him aside as soon as the going gets tough.

 

Of course this is a results game...if we don't win over next few months something has to give but I am yet to hear a sensible suggestion of how / who would improve things.

 

More ashamed of our 'fans' on here than our goal difference. Real lack of character.

 

Luckily it seems to be just here, rather than in real world and at the ground.

 

Even in first half of Spurs game the more mature fans at the ground were singing their support of Adkins.

 

 

This immature we lost so need a new manager is embarassing.

 

Rant over...

 

Brilliant post. Well said.

 

I think this'll be a 1-1 draw.

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How so?

 

What do you see the weaknesses as; and what would go with instead?

 

As I said elsewhere, I feels quite narrow and reckon it will encourage us to play very deep without going anywhere a la Arsenal. You can imagine Brom's defenders sitting on the halfway line and squeezing play. It would help if we had runners from midfield to stop the 3 CMS and front 3 getting too isolated and provide the penetration and energy to get behind defenses but none of our CMs have shown any appetite to gamble or look up.

 

We tried 3 CMs last Xmas with Hammond, Cork and Morgan and we looked lethargic and predictable - it also coincided with our poorest run of the season.

 

Think pace is a definite requirement away from home, allowing us to stretch defences back and give the midfield more space. So yeh, I would consider Mayuka - think he potentially offers more away from home than at home. Alternatively, I would consider taking one of the 3 CMs out -probably JWP and starting Guly - he works hard defensively, is physically strong, difficult to dispossess in possession and will push forward.

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As I said elsewhere, I feels quite narrow and reckon it will encourage us to play very deep without going anywhere a la Arsenal. You can imagine Brom's defenders sitting on the halfway line and squeezing play. It would help if we had runners from midfield to stop the 3 CMS and front 3 getting too isolated and provide the penetration and energy to get behind defenses but none of our CMs have shown any appetite to gamble or look up.

 

We tried 3 CMs last Xmas with Hammond, Cork and Morgan and we looked lethargic and predictable - it also coincided with our poorest run of the season.

 

Think pace is a definite requirement away from home, allowing us to stretch defences back and give the midfield more space. So yeh, I would consider Mayuka - think he potentially offers more away from home than at home. Alternatively, I would consider taking one of the 3 CMs out -probably JWP and starting Guly - he works hard defensively, is physically strong, difficult to dispossess in possession and will push forward.

 

Starting guly? Jesus.

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As I said elsewhere, I feels quite narrow and reckon it will encourage us to play very deep without going anywhere a la Arsenal. You can imagine Brom's defenders sitting on the halfway line and squeezing play. It would help if we had runners from midfield to stop the 3 CMS and front 3 getting too isolated and provide the penetration and energy get behind defenses but none of our CMs have shown any appetite to gamble or look up.

 

We tried 3 CMs last Xmas with Hammond, Cork and Morgan and we looked lethargic and predictable - it also coincided with our poorest run of the season.

 

Think pace is a definite requirement away from home, allowing us to stretch defences back and give the midfield more space. So yeh, I would consider Mayuka - think he potentially offers more away from home than at home. Alternatively, I would consider taking one of the 3 CMs out -probably JWP and starting Guly - he works hard defensively, is physically strong, difficult to dispossess in possession and will push forward.

 

Fair points, but I'm not sure I agree. To date we've had Puncheon and Lallana (or Rodriguez) wide, so pretty much no natural width there. Our width is naturally provided by the full backs, while the defensive cover has typically come from Puncheon and Lallana, who quite clearly often haven't been up to that particular task. A much stronger midfield 3 allows for extra defensive coverage when requires, and allows the full backs to give us that width that we need. It should also allow the 3 in the middle to interchange and make the runs forward that you mention are needed, to get forward quickly and support the attackers. With a dedicated "number 10" they're much more defensively minded, but with 3 of the same it gives each of them proper license to (within reason) all get forward themselves.

 

You mention we tried 3 CMs last year to little success; we also tried it against Man United and it worked a treat until the changing around with subs; up to then and against a quality side it was perhaps the best we've played all season (and that was without Cork who I personally rate as the best of our central midfielders, though not a view common to most on here).

 

You're right that pace is a requirement, especially away from home; but I think we're always going to play Lallana and Ramirez, so given that I don't think playing away from home we can accommodate a striker plus the pace of Mayuka, it almost becomes 4-2-4. At home, yes I think it can and would work, but not away, I just think it is too open. The Guly option you mention; I agree with his attributes but again I think its not a solid enough midfield 3 ; certainly not to give the defence and full backs the support they quite clearly need.

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Fair points, but I'm not sure I agree. To date we've had Puncheon and Lallana (or Rodriguez) wide, so pretty much no natural width there. Our width is naturally provided by the full backs, while the defensive cover has typically come from Puncheon and Lallana, who quite clearly often haven't been up to that particular task. A much stronger midfield 3 allows for extra defensive coverage when requires, and allows the full backs to give us that width that we need. It should also allow the 3 in the middle to interchange and make the runs forward that you mention are needed, to get forward quickly and support the attackers. With a dedicated "number 10" they're much more defensively minded, but with 3 of the same it gives each of them proper license to (within reason) all get forward themselves.

 

You mention we tried 3 CMs last year to little success; we also tried it against Man United and it worked a treat until the changing around with subs; up to then and against a quality side it was perhaps the best we've played all season (and that was without Cork who I personally rate as the best of our central midfielders, though not a view common to most on here).

 

You're right that pace is a requirement, especially away from home; but I think we're always going to play Lallana and Ramirez, so given that I don't think playing away from home we can accommodate a striker plus the pace of Mayuka, it almost becomes 4-2-4. At home, yes I think it can and would work, but not away, I just think it is too open. The Guly option you mention; I agree with his attributes but again I think its not a solid enough midfield 3 ; certainly not to give the defence and full backs the support they quite clearly need.

 

I can see that, though it assumes a few things (i) that the full-backs do push on and support -probably truer down the right with Clyne than Fox and (ii) that the three CMs wil; get forward and support rather than pass the buck - both JWP and Morgan's first instinct is to sit back, though for different reasons (JWP still strikes me as risk-averse). Davis has been very good since he joined but it hasn't been for his box-to-box qualities.

 

We played v.well against Man U but remember we put out exactly the same side against Arsenal and that's probably the worst we looked this season. While Arsenal definitely took their foot off the pedal in the second half, we picked up after we took off JWP and brought on Ramirez -obviously, Ramirez is a better player but also the midfield didnt sit as deep, creating space for Puncheon and AL further up the pitch. Its a difficult balancing act between being defensively solid and being too negative that we invite teams on and paradoxically becoming more vulnerable. Away from home am inclined to think there are more Arsenal than Man U performances because the onus is on the home side to squeeze up. Conversely, I reckon 3 CMs would work much better at home.

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I'm looking forward to LOLing at the Spazweb bedwetters crying and foot stamping when Adkins starts with Ramirez on the bench, after all he would be completely incompetent to rush him straight in wouldn't he................

 

'Spazweb bedwetters' for having an opinion. Nice.

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We'll get soundly beaten. I can see Shane Long bagging a couple.

 

I can't remember the last time we played WBA. The last one I remember was a sorry mid-week display in front of the Sky cameras (early 2008), where Gera and Chris Brunt ate us up. I fear it'll be similar tomorrow night.

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We'll get soundly beaten. I can see Shane Long bagging a couple.

 

I can't remember the last time we played WBA. The last one I remember was a sorry mid-week display in front of the Sky cameras (early 2008), where Gera and Chris Brunt ate us up. I fear it'll be similar tomorrow night.

 

1-1 draw at the Hawthorns in 2008. Lallana's first goal. More recently a pre-season friendly at SMS in 2011 that finished 2-2 with Cork and Lambert scoring.

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We'll get soundly beaten. I can see Shane Long bagging a couple.

 

I can't remember the last time we played WBA. The last one I remember was a sorry mid-week display in front of the Sky cameras (early 2008), where Gera and Chris Brunt ate us up. I fear it'll be similar tomorrow night.

 

Think it was April 2008. We got a 1 1 draw with a late goal that was Adam's first for Saints. It stopped them being promoted on the night and gave us hope of staying up.

 

(like what Itchen said before me) :(

Edited by Shroppie
Too slow
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Think it was April 2008. We got a 1 1 draw with a late goal that was Adam's first for Saints. It stopped them being promoted on the night and gave us hope of staying up.

 

(like what Itchen said before me) :(

 

They did go up that night, as good as up anyway.

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'Spazweb bedwetters' for having an opinion. Nice.

 

Totally Agree. Some guys on here think you have to agree with everything they say. Their view or no view. Its forum - opinions should count - its where Saints get discussed, or should be. By the way its time for NA to go especially if we lose at WBA.

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:shakey:

 

Not for me; not away from home, at least. Its far too open; effectively playing with 4 forward-thinking players. At home, I could see time for that formation, without doubt. Away, against a decent and well organised West Brom side, I fear we'd get picked to pieces with that. We need to be tighter than that. For me its:

Boruc

 

Clyne - Yoshida - Fonte - Fox

 

Cork - Schneiderlin - Davis

 

Ramirez - Lallana

 

Lambert

 

And picking Fox is your version of 'keeeping it tight' .........not very tight then....

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