Mr X Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 As the club thats our closest likeness in terms of being newly promoted and a similar sized fan fanbase, Cortese will no doubt be making comparisons. They haven't spent quite as much as us but seem to have got the basics so much better than saints. What do you see is the primary reason: 1) Transfers, they built from the back and invested in the defence first with physical strong players. 2) They have solid experience in Sam, he knows whats needed in this league. 3) Their direct Style is much more effective than saints and they utilise it. 4) They can adapt formation better and have a plan B 4) you own reasons Do you think West-ham are currently in a false position and will be brought down to reality? fair play to them for their achievements so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 they have not done much better...other than get collins in and we have just gotten worse they are far more suited to the prem with the limited players they have everyone got (and some still are) carried away about us finishing above west ham.....brighton finished above us the year before but we considered ourselves better and the pressure and how everyone wanted to beat us cost us the title..people kept and still are going on about how such a crap manager big sam is and how we are (or were) oh so much better....we were 2 points better which was a brilliant result.. reality is......they are for more suited to the prem...a lot tighter at the back and keep more of a rigid formation....where as we just plough everyone forward, drop our star player randomly and the wide players go wandering at odd times....throw in the odd defensie howler... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 It's called premier league quality and experience. Something they have plenty of and we were adamant we didn't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 They're a hard team to break down. very solid unit who will get the odd goal because of the way they play. Percentages state that if you hit hit and hope balls into the box 50 times, one of them will drop to a west ham player to follow up. We're extremely naive and want to play like Barca/Chelsea/Arsenal, but don t have the quality to do it. They've been there and done it, our players have taken a huge step. Confidence and fixture list are probably also involved somewhere as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Fat Sam knows they're sh!t and sets the team up accordingly. Adkins still thinks we're Barcelona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 It's called premier league quality and experience. Something they have plenty of and we were adamant we didn't need. They're a hard team to break down. very solid unit who will get the odd goal because of the way they play. Percentages state that if you hit hit and hope balls into the box 50 times, one of them will drop to a west ham player to follow up. We're extremely naive and want to play like Barca/Chelsea/Arsenal, but don t have the quality to do it. They've been there and done it, our players have taken a huge step. Confidence and fixture list are probably also involved somewhere as well. Fat Sam knows they're sh!t and sets the team up accordingly. Adkins still thinks we're Barcelona. Pretty much all these comments are spot on. Can't believe Turkish has actually got something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 I'm often right, the problem is its not what most of you lot want to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maysie Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 I'm often right, the problem is its not what most of you lot want to hear. Well that's subjective. You definitely think you are always right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Well that's subjective. You definitely think you are always right Just because it isn't what people want to believe or hear it doesn't make it untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingwing Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Fat Sam plays to their strengths... Well percentages anyway. Plus they cheat, a monumental amount of diving from a man who as been prosecuted for assault is always embarrassing. Not a fan of "playing the ref" but god it hurts when it is done to you so badly. Other than that they have still been on the reviving end of some poor losses this season and have most of the big teams still to play (City, Man United, Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle...) so they have taken their chances better than us against the realistic teams to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 He signed Demel and Diame two who we could do with....that Demel bloke certainly takes no prisoners and in our lightweight midfield would certainly prove handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 At this stage of the season they do appear to have acclimatized/adjusted/strengthened much better than us, but let's not lose sight of the fact that five of their first eight games have been against what most view as likely fellow-strugglers. They've only played one elite team (Arsenal, at home, which they lost 3-1), while we've played three, two of them away. Even though they've certainly picked up the points, the jury is still very much out on them IMO - especially if Liverpool take Carroll back in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 (edited) He signed Demel and Diame two who we could do with....that Demel bloke certainly takes no prisoners and in our lightweight midfield would certainly prove handy. Demel is a right back by trade, perhaps even a better one than Clyne. Edited 25 October, 2012 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 I would say that in the first half against us we looked very much the better team, and then we lost concentration and let them score twice. After that we were chasing the game and then gave away a needless penalty. So I would say that the difference between them and us is concentration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 I would say that in the first half against us we looked very much the better team, and then we lost concentration and let them score twice. After that we were chasing the game and then gave away a needless penalty. So I would say that the difference between them and us is concentration. That first goal was a shocker really, enough to shake the hardest players. When you concede like that you have to wonder if you'll ever get any good fortune. Second wasn't much better, I really don't know what Yoshida thought he was doing (or Guly for that matter) just flashing his heel at it like that, sort of thing you do in training when you can't be bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbob40 Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Well BFS got the fixture list right for starters... and WHU are a nasty, cheating set of fouling bastards. However I think our morale has been impacted by the loss of Sharp and Hammond and the demotion of Kelvin and Fox. We have then brought in quite a few foreigners who may turn out ok but are still adapting to the UK both culturally and in a football sense and.... some linguistically. Then to cap it all the ever present Cork has had two injuries one after the other. We have seen revolution not the evolution we were promised and thus far it has not worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labibs Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 They've had a much, much easier fixture list than us so far. Not only does this help in terms of easier opposition, but it enabled them to hit the ground running and build up some decent momentum at the start of the season. (Much like we did last season) It's also worth noting they pretty much had a premier league squad last season (Taylor, Nolan, Noble etc) which they have added to in the summer. Their wage bill would be much, much higher than ours, which has obviously helped with their recruitment as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 It's called premier league quality and experience. Something they have plenty of and we were adamant we didn't need. Dont think anyone can add much to this if you want it summed up in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 That first goal was a shocker really, enough to shake the hardest players. Trouble is, the pundits were slating Boruc for bad positioning but he was "damned if he did, damned if he didn't" If Collins had got his head to the ball (as expected) Boruc would probably have saved it, as it was Collins was so ****e he missed a sitting header and Boruc was left floundering. I'm sure it was a indirect free kick though ;) ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Before the season started I got proper called out for saying that we could have done with James Collins, and that Diame was better than Davis and Maiga was better than Rodriguez. I got castigated by a number of posters including S Clarke, Saint Charlie etc. Do they want to apologise yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Before the season started I got proper called out for saying that we could have done with James Collins, and that Diame was better than Davis and Maiga was better than Rodriguez. I got castigated by a number of posters including S Clarke, Saint Charlie etc. Do they want to apologise yet? The one thing you need to remember about Internet spaz boards is when you're right no one remembers, when youre wrong no one forgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 What have West Ham done thats better than saints? Not let in so many goals.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 The one thing you need to remember about Internet spaz boards is when you're right no one remembers, when youre wrong no one forgets. Was that quote Mark Twain or Oscar Wilde? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 I'm often right, the problem is its not what most of you lot want to hear. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Except a digital one, which isn't right at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Their schedule has been a LOT easier. Look at their games in november and december. They will be lucky to get more that 6 points out of those and even that could be a tough task to achieve.... I dont see them at anything more than 21p by the new year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Their schedule has been a LOT easier. Look at their games in november and december. They will be lucky to get more that 6 points out of those and even that could be a tough task to achieve.... I dont see them at anything more than 21p by the new year. You stay up by beating the teams around you which they are doing. Whereas we've lost at home to Wigan who wil likely struggle and draw at home to Fulham who are woeful away. So do al those who were certain we didn't need premier league experience and it was pointless still claim this is the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 You stay up by beating the teams around you which they are doing. Whereas we've lost at home to Wigan who wil likely struggle and draw at home to Fulham who are woeful away. So do al those who were certain we didn't need premier league experience and it was pointless still claim this is the case? I didn't think we necessarily needed premier league experience. We needed premier league quality. There is a difference between the two IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Talking about forgetfulness, people forget Wham were in the premier league the season before last - and managed to hold onto some of their players whereas we were in league 1. In other words, the challenge of rebuilding has not been as great in their case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 It's a combinaton of several factors that have already been mentioned, plus the crucial injuries, specially those of Cork and Ramirez. We had a much harder fixture list than them and when they have had some more difficult fixtures themselves, we will be in a better position to judge whether they are indeed better than us. Personally, I still believe that we will finish this season ahead of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 mid field players who know there first job is to defend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stthrobber Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Talking about forgetfulness, people forget Wham were in the premier league the season before last - and managed to hold onto some of their players whereas we were in league 1. In other words, the challenge of rebuilding has not been as great in their case. Exactly the point I was going to make until I read you'd got there first. I was wondering today if we had perhaps gone up a season too early. I know Norwich went up twice in successive seasons, but they weren't in administration etc. Mind you, we haven't been relegated, but our team was full of very good players for the divisions we were in and the policy of evolution not revolution seems to have been done from the front backwards, and the window closed before the defence could be sorted out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 It's worth remembering that West Ham as a team MASSIVELY underperformed last season and should have won the Championship with a record points total (if only to shut those ****ing Reading ****s up ) with the squad they had at their disposal. It was already packed with Premier League and international experience, and they've since strengthened the spine of the team pretty well with Collins, Diame and Carroll. While we were better than them last season, that was, IMO, due to us playing a bit above our players' natural level and them playing a long way below theirs. We've had to start from a lower base this summer, and it will take another one or two transfer windows of clever investment and dealings to change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 I expect Sam isn't told what formation to play either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 It's worth remembering that West Ham as a team MASSIVELY underperformed last season and should have won the Championship with a record points total (if only to shut those ****ing Reading ****s up ) with the squad they had at their disposal. It was already packed with Premier League and international experience, and they've since strengthened the spine of the team pretty well with Collins, Diame and Carroll. While we were better than them last season, that was, IMO, due to us playing a bit above our players' natural level and them playing a long way below theirs. We've had to start from a lower base this summer, and it will take another one or two transfer windows of clever investment and dealings to change that. Yep, pretty much spot on. I tend to believe we over performed last season, and we've kind of relied on the same players to over perform again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(not THE) Kevin Moore Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 My whu supporting mate would answer that they just the opposite start to us. Our confidence seems to be the biggest difference at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 West Ham's PL experience and quality is being overstated a little here. They have more PL nous, worst example being Carroll's diving, but I didn't see much quality on Saturday. They were gifted the win. I saw both games against them last season too. In the draw at Upton Park they played quite well but their performance at SMS was dismal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Man Do Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 It's called premier league quality and experience. Something they have plenty of and we were adamant we didn't need. QPR's team is full of "premier league experience" doesn't seem to have done them any good. The fact is its not about the premier league experience its about how good your players are and confidence from winning games which at the moment they are doing and we are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 QPR's team is full of "premier league experience" doesn't seem to have done them any good. The fact is its not about the premier league experience its about how good your players are and confidence from winning games which at the moment they are doing and we are not. Which is probably why he wrote "Premier League quality and experience", rather than half the phrase you picked up on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Which is probably why he wrote "Premier League quality and experience", rather than half the phrase you picked up on. He's wrong about the quality bit too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 James Collins is absolutely awful by the way, but they clearly dont need to be that good technically. As long as they can get rid when they need to then thats how they'll defend. Diame was awful against us last weekend, although I do think he is a good player, and the kind of player who we need. Carroll is a cheating bastard but will cause any team problems despite being technically not very good, and Maiga has barely played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 He's wrong about the quality bit too. Who is? Are you saying West Ham's team isn't of Premier League quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 It's not particularly 'quality' as such, it's more know-how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 He's wrong about the quality bit too. So West Hams team isn't full of premier league quality and experience? I'm shocked they beat us so easily on saturday to be honest. A fat clueless manager, a crap team with a cart horse up front. Over rated players on a team that will go down and we will finish we above. It should have been easy. I'm not sure what could have gone wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Who is? Are you saying West Ham's team isn't of Premier League quality? Remains to be seen. It's a long season. I posted my opinion already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 James Collins is absolutely awful by the way, but they clearly dont need to be that good technically. As long as they can get rid when they need to then thats how they'll defend. Diame was awful against us last weekend, although I do think he is a good player, and the kind of player who we need. Carroll is a cheating bastard but will cause any team problems despite being technically not very good, and Maiga has barely played. I would have James Collins over any of our centre halves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 It's not particularly 'quality' as such, it's more know-how. IMO, know-how is often as valuable (if not more so) than technical ability in defenders. If we had James Collins and, say, Abdoulaye Faye (not a great example as West Ham released him in the summer, but that sort of player) at the heart of our defence, I reckon we wouldn't have conceded half as many goals as we have. Of course it's all conjecture, but with more experienced defenders I don't think we'd have seen anywhere near as many naive errors at the back this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Remains to be seen. It's a long season. I posted my opinion already. Ah yes; just read it. Seems a bit strange to me to base your judgement on one game against us this season (in which they thrashed us 4-1 but were apparently "gifted it") and 2 games from last season. But there we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 So West Hams team isn't full of premier league quality and experience? I'm shocked they beat us so easily on saturday to be honest. A fat clueless manager, a crap team with a cart horse up front. Over rated players on a team that will go down and we will finish we above. It should have been easy. I'm not sure what could have gone wrong. You're being a bit hard on them there. They have more nous or know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 You're being a bit hard on them there. They have more nous or know. what do you mean...why couldnt they use this nous or know to win at bristol city..or at home to cardiff last season..or finish in the top 2..? what is premier league "nous or know"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Ah yes; just read it. Seems a bit strange to me to base your judgement on one game against us this season (in which they thrashed us 4-1 but were apparently "gifted it") and 2 games from last season. But there we go. If you saw the match you'd know we gifted it to them. I readily admit I don't watch them regularly as I'm generally watching Saints though I did see them live in a couple of matches the season before last as I've lived in London for over 30 years and have West Ham supporting mates. Wasn't impressed with those games either but we're going back a couple seasons there so probably not fair to judge. Do you watch them much live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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