Is Adkins job untenable?

[david in sweden]

You won`t last long on here posting balanced, common sense stuff like this.

 

yes, and we all get the same treatment. Postive thoughts never outway negative opinions.

 

Try to look on the bright side and you're condemned .........

[NickG]

What a load of attention seeking ********!

 

our best manager is years, at least since Hoddle, role is untenable - why?

 

Because a few rumours after a relatively bad start! On this reckoning managers would find themselves sacked every few weeks.

 

Broken man....disappointed manager after defeat...due again to a few minutes of madness from players.

 

confirmation not fully in control.....you have just made that up!! as is shown in this thread.

 

growing rumours...one tweet from someone with no known links to football - denied by journo in football!

 

reality...there is none in your post!

 

 

Arry...Spurs finished 11th with 46 points in 07/08, Arry came in and added Defoe, Palacios, Cudicini, Chimbonda, Robbie Keane, and got them to finish 8th with 51 points - costing them just over £50m for that improvement of 5 points!!

[Turkish]

Are you alright NickG? Do you think you should have a puff on your inhaler to calm you down a bit?

[tajjuk]

Well, in that situation you could really, couldn't you. Les Reed's job is head of recruitment. He's not head of trying to recruit players; he's responsible for getting them through the door. Its a bit like saying you should only judge Nigel Adkins on trying to win games, and if we don't actually win them then he is blameless and you can't suggest NA wasn't doing his job. Reed was doing his job; and he failed in what he was trying to achieve (or at least failed to bring in the positional targets that the manager identified). That's the art of recruitment; you identify your targets and achieve success by bringing those targets in with suitable candidates. If we weren't able to bring in 20 different defenders then that would indicate there was a problem with the realism of the identification of candidates; again, Reed's responsibility.

 

Surely NC and NA have as much to play here, Reed is the facilitator yes, but he doesn't have final say

 

NA says "I think we need another centre back in the building".

 

So LR goes to find centre backs as viable options.

 

Say he first comes back with 5 players, A,B,C,D,E. NA might say that A & C aren't good enough or he doesn't rate them, we might make bids for B,D & E. The clubs of B&E might come back saying they want £X million, which then NC says we can't afford or is too high a starting value to even start negotiations with that club. We are then left with player D, who NC manages to agree a deal with the club at a decent fee but player D decides to stall or has his head turned by another club.

 

Like I said I don't know how club's go about their business and how ours does. It would seem that when if comes to transfer purchases it involves a committee of NA, NC, LR who decide what targets to pursue, however I presume LR and his scouting team come up with the names after NA identifies areas that need strengthening, which the three of them then discuss, choose targets and then NC then takes forward actual bidding and contract bit. I'm presuming a combination of all 3 of them 'make' a transfer happen.

 

Presumably at some points they are all also doing some things on their own, so Les Reed will be finding young players with potential, NA might have identified a few direct targets of his own, who the scouting staff then go look at, and Cortese might be picking up potentially good deals financially that previously might have seen to have been out of reach or unrealistic. I think Ramirez might be in this category, I doubt Les Reed was involved here, I have a feeling Cortese heard something about Bologna needing to sell and that Ramirez might be interested, told NA about it who would probably never have thought about potentially signing a player like Ramirez so would have gone for it.

Edited 24 October, 2012 by tajjuk

[The Kraken]

Surely NC and NA have as much to play here, Reed is the facilitator yes, but he doesn't have final say

 

NA says "I think we need another centre back in the building".

 

So LR goes to find centre backs as viable options.

 

Say he first comes back with 5 players, A,B,C,D,E. NA might say that A & C aren't good enough or he doesn't rate them, we might make bids for B,D & E. The clubs of B&E might come back saying they want £X million, which then NC says we can't afford or is too high a starting value to even start negotiations with that club. We are then left with player D, who NC manages to agree a deal with the club at a decent fee but player D decides to stall or has his head turned by another club.

 

Like I said I don't know how club's go about their business and how ours does. It would seem that when if comes to transfer purchases it involves a committee of NA, NC, LR who decide what targets to pursue, however I presume LR and his scouting team come up with the names after NA identifies areas that need strengthening, which the three of them then discuss, choose targets and then NC then takes forward actual bidding and contract bit. I'm presuming a combination of all 3 of them 'make' a transfer happen.

 

Without knowing the exact roles its obviously very tough to say who lies at fault ultimately. So we kind of have to go on what those in the roles have said before. Your last paragraph suggests one way it may be; another may be to suggest that NA doesn't get that much input. We don't ultimately know. We can surmise pretty easily that NA knew very little about the Ramirez transfer; when interviewed on it when in its early stages he was very clear that he knew little about it but suggested it sounded like a decent transfer. So, if that's our modus operandi for our biggest transfer ever, its perhaps fair to assume that it might be the case for other transfers too.

 

Les Reed has said that he is responsible for player recruitment. He's said that the manager only has 3 coaches reporting to him, and he doesn't have to worry about anything else other than coaching the players. This was in an interview with Reed so its pretty clear that, aside from sitting on the transfer committee and identifiying areas that need improvement, the involvement of NA from there is limited. If what Les Reed said is true of his role, then at least the bulk of responsibility must be his when set targets are not hit. Or even when the whole summer of transfer activity is as totally lopsided (as I believe this one was) as to leave gaping holes in squad strength, most notably at least one centre back down and totally lacking in any realistic backup of the left back.

[Turkish]

Without knowing the exact roles its obviously very tough to say who lies at fault ultimately. So we kind of have to go on what those in the roles have said before. Your last paragraph suggests one way it may be; another may be to suggest that NA doesn't get that much input. We don't ultimately know. We can surmise pretty easily that NA knew very little about the Ramirez transfer; when interviewed on it when in its early stages he was very clear that he knew little about it but suggested it sounded like a decent transfer. So, if that's our modus operandi for our biggest transfer ever, its perhaps fair to assume that it might be the case for other transfers too.

 

Les Reed has said that he is responsible for player recruitment. He's said that the manager only has 3 coaches reporting to him, and he doesn't have to worry about anything else other than coaching the players. This was in an interview with Reed so its pretty clear that, aside from sitting on the transfer committee and identifiying areas that need improvement, the involvement of NA from there is limited. If what Les Reed said is true of his role, then at least the bulk of responsibility must be his when set targets are not hit. Or even when the whole summer of transfer activity is as totally lopsided (as I believe this one was) as to leave gaping holes in squad strength, most notably at least one centre back down and totally lacking in any realistic backup of the left back.

 

Not forgetting the goalkeeping situation where Adkins again said he wanted one or two, he got one from L2 and then the panic freebie of Boruc when it soon became apparant we had f*cked up that area as well. Meanwhile £10ms worth of strikers sits on the bench most weeks.

[shurlock]

Not forgetting the goalkeeping situation where Adkins again said he wanted one or two, he got one from L2 and then the panic freebie of Boruc when it soon became apparant we had f*cked up that area as well. Meanwhile £10ms worth of strikers sits on the bench most weeks.

 

Stick to your Bond-related merchandise - 'the man with the silver spoon', there's another one for you.

[The Kraken]

Not forgetting the goalkeeping situation where Adkins again said he wanted one or two, he got one from L2 and then the panic freebie of Boruc when it soon became apparant we had f*cked up that area as well. Meanwhile £10ms worth of strikers sits on the bench most weeks.

 

That's again true. Once again, the whole lopsided recruitment strategy must be apportioned somewhere; it wasn't just random that we signed the sum total players we did, and for the amounts that they cost. Someone was responsible for putting that strategy together; of budgetting for it, and identifying the targets required to fit the gaps identified. £22M for two reserve strikers and an attacking midfielder a step up from the one we had been grooming in a new central role throughout pre-season; while around £6M-£7M went out on a defensive midfielder, a centre back, a right back and two new goalkeepers. It clear where our priorities lay; they were in attack with two huge money acquisitions. Boruc and Yoshida in particular were last minute rolls of the dice intended to plug an obvious deficiency that hadn't been addressed.

 

As I've said; I believe NA has a role in (sometimes) identifying which positions in the team require improvement. I would also tend to believe that's where his involvement in transfer strategy starts and finishes.

[Turkish]

Stick to your Bond-related merchandise - 'the man with the silver spoon', there's another one for you.

 

I Like it. Shouldn't it be 'the man without the silver spoon' though?

Edited 24 October, 2012 by Turkish

[Turkish]

That's again true. Once again, the whole lopsided recruitment strategy must be apportioned somewhere; it wasn't just random that we signed the sum total players we did, and for the amounts that they cost. Someone was responsible for putting that strategy together; of budgetting for it, and identifying the targets required to fit the gaps identified. £22M for two reserve strikers and an attacking midfielder a step up from the one we had been grooming in a new central role throughout pre-season; while around £6M-£7M went out on a defensive midfielder, a centre back, a right back and two new goalkeepers. It clear where our priorities lay; they were in attack with two huge money acquisitions. Boruc and Yoshida in particular were last minute rolls of the dice intended to plug an obvious deficiency that hadn't been addressed.

 

As I've said; I believe NA has a role in (sometimes) identifying which positions in the team require improvement. I would also tend to believe that's where his involvement in transfer strategy starts and finishes.

 

IIRC Adkins said the week before we signed Yoshida that we wouldn't be. This is from memory so dont ask for me to provide links or quotes as i cant be arsed to trail back to August to find it. Some input!

[Toadhall Saint]

A couple of wins and NA's job will be fine (not that I think it isn't). I personally think that NA is (as the team are) finding his way in the PL which is no bad thing and not a reason to give him the tin tack. I think he'll come good as it would appear he is a quick learner and some of the lessons dished out to us over the last few games would have hurt. What I really don't want is for Saints to get on the manager merry go round as it has never served us well in the past.

[Bailey]

Fergie could be in charge of our squad and we wouldn't improve defensively.

 

Get behind Adkins and give him our full support - he deserves it.

 

I honestly believe that if we stick by him now, it'll pay dividends in the long run. This is the first time under his tenure that we've had a rough patch, it would be ridiculous to get rid.

[shurlock]

I Like it. Shouldn't it be 'the man without the silver spoon' though?

 

Quite

[Guan 2.0]

It isn't untenable, but for some reason, there are posters on here who would like to give the impression that it is. Once the polls on here and in the echo made it clear that NA was still the favoured man, and new tactic emerges where certain posters commit hundreds of posts to the same subject over multiple threads, twisting quotes, extrapolating from rumoured gossip to make unsubstantiated 'facts' and for whatever reason, stifle true debate and instead paint a picture of 'SFC in crisis'. It is very odd.

[IOWSaintDaz]

I think we will lose against Stoke this season

[david in sweden]

Meanwhile £10ms worth of strikers sits on the bench most weeks.

 

I won't ague the amount, but how many strikers do you think we can have on the pitch at the same time?

 

Many people suggest that Jay Rod is badly-used playing left wing (won't argue that).. but if we play the £10 millions worth who do we sub. to get them in the game ..Rickie ?...or one or two of the midfielders.

 

Most sides can use two (sometimes only one) striker (s) at a time....so if we put on; Jay Rod, Mayuka, Lee.....or whoever.....who do we take off? You can still only use 11 players at a time .....

[thefuriousb]

'We will play 4-3-3' HTH

 

He was making it simple for you to understand, knowing that you would be incapable of getting your noggin around the flexibility within the system.

[Turkish]

I won't ague the amount, but how many strikers do you think we can have on the pitch at the same time?

 

Many people suggest that Jay Rod is badly-used playing left wing (won't argue that).. but if we play the £10 millions worth who do we sub. to get them in the game ..Rickie ?...or one or two of the midfielders.

 

Most sides can use two (sometimes only one) striker (s) at a time....so if we put on; Jay Rod, Mayuka, Lee.....or whoever.....who do we take off? You can still only use 11 players at a time .....

 

Err, yeah thats kind of my point, in Adkins 4-3-3 system that he chose and is desperately trying to adhere to he can only play one striker, but we've signed two, both of which should be behind Lambert in the pecking order, meanwhile we've got one average Premier League centre back and two championship ones to fill our 2 positions there.

[Chez]

Err, yeah thats kind of my point, in Adkins 4-3-3 system that he chose and is desperately trying to adhere to he can only play one striker, but we've signed two, both of which should be behind Lambert in the pecking order, meanwhile we've got one average Premier League centre back and two championship ones to fill our 2 positions there.

His mention of one or two CBs was made in reference to the unavailability of Seaborne (and need to replace Jaidi) who subsequently did become available. Not sure if that changed NA's request to Reed or NC's willingness to add another wage. Probably not.

[St_Tel49]

Pubic Revelations?

He's flasher?!!!!

[St_Tel49]

So direct quotes from the manager is media speculation is it?!!

 

No - but your interpretation is speculation - nothing more, nothing less.

[Saint86]

Despite the majority of fans wanting him to be give more time it seems that the momentum behind him not being here much longer increases by the day.

 

He looked a broken man on Saturday and virtually admitted he was on the way out when he said he didn't know how long he had left. There is a lack of public support for the club for a manager clearly feeling the strain. confirmation at the weekend from the manager that he is not fully In control of team affairs and transfers. As well as the now growing rumours he is set to be replaced by one of the two most despised managers in this clubs history.

 

The reality is that these rumours that been gathering momentum since promtion and Niges reaction to it when he talked about a parting of ways. It was said then all did not seem well between him and Cortese and rumours during the summer of verbal sackings and Cortese wanting to replace him with a bigger name have gathering pace since the season started. The Star ran the Redknapp story back in Spetember and it was dismissed as bullsh*t but this seems to be withering at pace.

 

Now before people accuse me of haing and agenda this isn't a pop at Cortese and I believe that Adkins should be given more time, but given his current position and the fact that it seems it's a case of when and not if, is he in an untenable position?

 

I just don't know to be honest. His interview on saints player made it look like he wanted to cry to be honest.

 

I think he has it in his locker, hell, i think the team have it in their lockers to be better than this. We outplayed man utd, smashed villa and really should have won against fulham.... so why the hell isn't it working. What is going on exactly? Even adam seemed more depressed than should be warranted after a 4-1 drumming when we should have nabbed some points - if not all 3 at half time! Makes you wonder if the players feel he is a dead man walking as well.

 

But then, this has been the case many times before and he is still here. NC did give him a whopper contract very early on, he is NC's man after pardew, and whichever way you look at it, he has spent a colossal amount of money on transfers for adkins to use - all of which I think are decent additions in their own right.

 

I also think that if NC wanted him gone.... then he'd be long gone and over the hill by now? surely? NC is not a man who messes around when it comes to what he wants?

 

To be honest, I am wondering if this is NC's way of motivating Nigel - making him really worry for his job?? NC seems a hard if decent man from what I have seen? He likes Nigel, Nigel has done well for him and been loyal... and I think under those criteria there is certainly respect from NC, if perhaps not sympathy.

 

Who knows... But I would keep Nigel even if we get relegated, to me, he deserves a full season in the premier... worse managers than him have been given that chance, and have not always won promotions to get it. Also, it was always a 3 year plan, and our transfers would allow us to go down and be okay for a season or 2 without a firesale? Maybe that is the backup plan, if all else fails, get relegated... keep most of the squad, and bounce back?

[Wade Garrett]

His job isn't untenable. All this stuff about influences from Reed and Cortese about who he picks and how he plays, is, in my opinion a load of rubbish.

 

I do think another manager could get more from our squad. I can't see where our next win is coming from. But I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

 

If he loses the dressing room though, then his job becomes impossible, not untenable. Think of AVB last season.

[Saint Without a Halo]

I think it is still tenable!

[Thedelldays]

fuking, yes

[captainchris]

I just don't know to be honest. His interview on saints player made it look like he wanted to cry to be honest.

 

I think he has it in his locker, hell, i think the team have it in their lockers to be better than this. We outplayed man utd, smashed villa and really should have won against fulham.... so why the hell isn't it working. What is going on exactly? Even adam seemed more depressed than should be warranted after a 4-1 drumming when we should have nabbed some points - if not all 3 at half time! Makes you wonder if the players feel he is a dead man walking as well.

 

But then, this has been the case many times before and he is still here. NC did give him a whopper contract very early on, he is NC's man after pardew, and whichever way you look at it, he has spent a colossal amount of money on transfers for adkins to use - all of which I think are decent additions in their own right.

 

I also think that if NC wanted him gone.... then he'd be long gone and over the hill by now? surely? NC is not a man who messes around when it comes to what he wants?

 

To be honest, I am wondering if this is NC's way of motivating Nigel - making him really worry for his job?? NC seems a hard if decent man from what I have seen? He likes Nigel, Nigel has done well for him and been loyal... and I think under those criteria there is certainly respect from NC, if perhaps not sympathy.

 

Who knows... But I would keep Nigel even if we get relegated, to me, he deserves a full season in the premier... worse managers than him have been given that chance, and have not always won promotions to get it. Also, it was always a 3 year plan, and our transfers would allow us to go down and be okay for a season or 2 without a firesale? Maybe that is the backup plan, if all else fails, get relegated... keep most of the squad, and bounce back?

 

Anyone 'deserves to be paid to do a job. In NAs case well paid. You cannot run any enterprise on memories and loyalty. Anyone who stops performing at work will be expected to start performing of be moved on, doesn't matter what you did last year! NA has enjoyed loyalty so far this year - perhaps loyalty must have it's limits, very soon that limit will be reached...

[corky morris]

YAYAYAAY - We had a shot!!

[alpine_saint]

To quote the legnedary Kenneth Wolstenhome - "Its is now".

[Badger]

At half time against Villa, at 1-0 down , and having looked fairly mediocre all half - lots of huff and puff but no end product - I had a horrible thought, wonder how Hoddle would organise this lot (defence in particular) ? Sorry but this might come to fruition.*

 

* and this is from someone opposed to his return in 2004.

[Turkish]

What are peoples thoughts now?

[alpine_saint]

What are peoples thoughts now?

 

Apparently not.

 

He's still there.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

What are peoples thoughts now?

 

Amazingly I think his job is more tenable now than when this thread came around, as obviously there is support for him somewhere in the Saints hierarchy.

[thorpie the sinner]

I still think Adders is a dead man walking! Nothing that happened yesterday has changed that feeling

[Turkish]

I still think Adders is a dead man walking! Nothing that happened yesterday has changed that feeling

 

Yes i agree with this. It's a case of when and not if. IMO.

[shirleysfc]

Yes i agree with this. It's a case of when and not if. IMO.

 

Yep, I think NC is trying to line-up a high profile replacement.

[derry]

With reservations, I think Adkins deserves to be given time to turn this around. The reservations, last season, nearly costing us promotion by playing three negative midfielders together for too many games, doing the same this year with Davis and Schneiderlin who don't defend well enough and underusing Mayuka.

[shurlock]

Yep, I think NC is trying to line-up a high profile replacement.

 

If thats the case, NA will be here the rest of the season.

After all, personnel, formations, transfers are all allegedly decided for NA. Which high profile, self-assured manager would in their right mind accept such a poisoned chalice?*

 

*Disclaimer: the views expressed are solely those of the mongboard and do not necessarily state or reflect the views of the author

[Shroppie]

This forum seems to be going headlong into meltdown. Every day we get at least two new threads on "Do we sack NA, is he out of his depth, who do we want in his place, how many mistakes can he make", plus another couple on the formation we should/shouldn't be playing and then half a dozen on individual players, generally criticising.

I've resisted the temptation to start yet another thread although it was difficult to choose which of about 40 very simlar repetitive rambles to choose.

Fair enough, it's obvious that most of this comes from frustration and a lot of it from posters who may have come lately to Saints and are, for those with longer memories, in the strange position of expecting and being used to us winning everything.

What's pretty clear from the widespread ranting (and, before I get shouted at, interspersed by the occasional thoughtful piece), is that there are nearly as many views on our current state and its causes as there are posters.

So it's either the manager's fault, the fault of whover didn't buy whoverin the summer, Cortese's fault (maybe because he's power mad and making all the decisions), or Player X's fault (insert absolutely any name you like - if you look back I'm pretty sure every current first choice player has been blamed).

And this has happened so quickly in a club that has set the leagues on fire for three seasons with a policy of "Together as one", "All on the bus" etc etc.

So, to try to bring a little perspective, what has gone wrong?

Firstly, just as fans have got used to being positive, usually winning and when we didn't, not getting too low, drawing a line, moving on with the belief still there, I'm sure that everyone in the club from Chairman and Coach has shared the same feelings, riding high on the crest of the wave. How many times has NA warned us not to get too high when the going is good? But that has happened, and for a few glorious moments when we led against MU and City, we (fans and i suspect players alike) dared to think we could keep on doing it in the Premier League.

But we haven't and the critical thing has been the slow draining of confidence and belief. I don't accept that players who were outstanding in the Championship have become poor players in this league. Yes, they have to go on a learning curve and realise that everything is that much harder. In particular, mistakes will be punished. But the players we have now are talented and did perform against MU and City, although ultimately without success. We'll never know, but say we'd hung on for a draw and a win in those games - where would we be now? At this level it's a game of fine margins, and with four more points life would seem very different.

To take the WBA game (and yes, I was there), I can't believe the negative posters who saw the whole game as a disaster. We lost to a deflected shot and a good breakaway goal. We hit the bar and could have had a penalty. If either of those had gone our way, we could have had a draw at one of the most solid home teams in the league.

And please can we stop slagging off the players, both collectively and individually? Do we really think they are uninterested? Most have had great success in the last three years and it can't feel good at the moment. I don't accept that a single player isn't giving everything they can for Saints. Yes, I agree that we do need to strengthen in some areas, but for now, get behind what we have rather than demoralising them.

And so to NA. He still has my complete backing, but this is the challenge that will make or break him. He's not out of his depth, but has learning to do. He needs to keep his nerve and I would challenge anyone to name a better option in terms of dealing with the psychology of lifting the team and keeping all the players happy. I have doubted some of his decisions, but all decisions are to some degree or other gambles, and some haven't paid off. I still have faith in him.

Confidence and belief and everything, and I still believe that a couple of wins will make all the difference. Changing the manager might or might not make a difference, but it would be the end of the relationship betwen NA and many players who have worked so well for him, and I don't believe it's worth the risk.

[Turkish]

/\ I think one thing that is obvious is that we are most certainly not together as one!

[Saint Fan CaM]

Of course his job is tenable. He's lead the club from L1 to the Prem in two seasons and it would seem that he still has the players on board. OK, so we're not winning games and that's pretty rubbish for us all, however thankfully there are adults made of sterner stuff on the board at SFC nowadays and ditching a good young English manager is a decision that will not be made lightly....no matter how many threads are started or resurrected on here!

[Wade Garrett]

With reservations, I think Adkins deserves to be given time to turn this around. The reservations, last season, nearly costing us promotion by playing three negative midfielders together for too many games, doing the same this year with Davis and Schneiderlin who don't defend well enough and underusing Mayuka.

 

Derry, I reckon the 2 defensive midfielders are struggling because they've got too much ground to cover.

 

What do you reckon of Monday night by the way. Foster had to use his weaker foot all game, but did we put him under pressure and force him onto his injured side? No, we didn't. Something else that a manager with a bit more savvy would surely have picked up on.

[Viking Warrior]

No it's not untenable

[Saint Charlie]

After 8 points from the last 5 and two good home games coming up is Adkins job still untenable?

[Thedelldays]

After 8 points from the last 5 and two good home games coming up is Adkins job still untenable?

dunno...we are still bottom 3......depends whether we are bottom 3 after the sunderland game...we would have had a very kind set of fixtures.

we are still gifting games away....

 

we have played some very average teams at home...and won 2 of them..but also played well in some

[Saint Charlie]

dunno...we are still bottom 3......depends whether we are bottom 3 after the sunderland game...we would have had a very kind set of fixtures.

we are still gifting games away....

 

we have played some very average teams at home...and won 2 of them..but also played well in some

 

Agree - we have had a decent run, just need 4/6 points from these and we will be in a much better position than many thought after say the Spurs game.

[Thedelldays]

Agree - we have had a decent run, just need 4/6 points from these and we will be in a much better position than many thought after say the Spurs game.

agree...but we really have to win on saturday...we really do

but to have played at home

 

wigan

villa

swansea

norwich

newcastle

fulham

 

and to have only won 2...it not very good....

we SHOULD have done better...what i mean by that..we gifted games away...norwich, fulham and swansea were ours to win...we had it and gifted games away..

 

I know that happens, (losing leads) but we are doing it too much with such basic errors..

 

we will have so very tough away games to these places coming yet...we are going to have to get points at these places...which we did at QPR but all of these teams are better than QPR

 

we are going to have to beat a top 6 team..probably 2 of them...which we seem totally incapable of...

[Saint Charlie]

agree...but we really have to win on saturday...we really do

but to have played at home

 

wigan

villa

swansea

norwich

newcastle

fulham

 

and to have only won 2...it not very good....

we SHOULD have done better...what i mean by that..we gifted games away...norwich, fulham and swansea were ours to win...we had it and gifted games away..

 

I know that happens, (losing leads) but we are doing it too much with such basic errors..

 

we will have so very tough away games to these places coming yet...we are going to have to get points at these places...which we did at QPR but all of these teams are better than QPR

 

we are going to have to beat a top 6 team..probably 2 of them...which we seem totally incapable of...

 

See the point but equally have only lost one of those games, and that was when we didn't have Gaston, Cork, Yoshida.

 

At the end of the day if a team won all the games against bottom half teams they would be a top half side themselves - it just doesn't happen, each team has dangerous players and are not mugs.

[Thedelldays]

See the point but equally have only lost one of those games, and that was when we didn't have Gaston, Cork, Yoshida.

 

At the end of the day if a team won all the games against bottom half teams they would be a top half side themselves - it just doesn't happen, each team has dangerous players and are not mugs.

drawing our games at home to the bottom half teams is going to relegate us pretty quickly....

basically..it puts extra pressure on getting away wins (which we are not very good at what so ever) and/or beating chelsea, arsenal, man city, everton at SMS...

which again....is massively difficult...we had the man u game within our grasp....one set of subs and it is game over...I know man u do it but on that day..we WERE the better team..you have to take points when the top clubs are not firing....we gave more points away there IMO

 

I fully expect us to get 6 points in the next two........4 is the bare minimum..or all this talk about having the goods with cork etc is just a false dawn

[Saint Charlie]

drawing our games at home to the bottom half teams is going to relegate us pretty quickly....

 

I fully expect us to get 6 points in the next two........4 is the bare minimum..or all this talk about having the goods with cork etc is just a false dawn

 

But you will draw and lose some games to lower teams. The teams that win them all challenge for Europe...to stay up you need 10 wins probably - means you can draw and lose games along the way.

[Thedelldays]

But you will draw and lose some games to lower teams. The teams that win them all challenge for Europe...to stay up you need 10 wins probably - means you can draw and lose games along the way.

I know..but we seem utterly incapable of beating arsenal, man u etc.......so if we cant beat the bottom half teams at home...we are in trouble