Is Lallana part of our problem?

[Saint Charlie]

We have seen defensive midfielders do this job many times before and looks to me as the only answer to our problems. What I assume we are talking about here is a player that covers just in front of the back four such any pressing he makes upon the forward makes the job easier for our defence. If this defensive midfielder consistently acts in a known manner it will make the defenders job far easier, remembering this still comes with a central midfield pairing just in front of the defensive midfielder. I thought Fonte did part of that job well against West Ham, being able to bring the ball out of defence and carry it forward a vital requirement. To work well it has to be pretty compact such any attacker who gets past the floating defender does not have the time and space to attack the final line as effectively. We just cannot play it as open as we did against Everton or West Ham at times, we have to deny space and keep things compact. We then have to accept we cannot provide as much of an attacking threat as we usually do, but that's better than ruining the whole objective with what is practically unachieveable.

 

 

I was at WH and we weren't open. We just couldn't do the defensive basics such as tackle, clear the ball and not concede pens.

 

Nothing to do with a "floating defender".

 

First half WH barely got inside our area, second half when the ball was put in there we didn't do well enough indivdually against the man we were up against. Nothing to do with team shape.

 

if we played 5-3-2 it would just invite so much pressure and wouldn't make a difference defensively. You can't stop individual mistakes just by chucking another man back there.

 

We could have 7 defenders and would still condede if we don't mark, tackle or position ourselves correctly.

 

For example the WH first goal - we had probably 8 men or more in the penalty area...it isn't the solution.

 

Teams haven't run through us time and time again - we have conceded because we can't defend the 18 yeard box without making errors - not because there is a lack of defensive cover.

 

See the above post where I went through every goal this season - probably one would have been stopped with this "floating defender" but none of the WH goals would have been.

Edited 24 October, 2012 by Saint Charlie

[Toadhall Saint]

He's not a captain IMHO. The pressure that puts on him seems to have had a negative effect i.e. he thinks he can resolve things on his own so therefore is playing all over the place which means he is not covering etc as he is out of position.

[This Charming Man]

He's not a captain IMHO. The pressure that puts on him seems to have had a negative effect i.e. he thinks he can resolve things on his own so therefore is playing all over the place which means he is not covering etc as he is out of position.

 

Completely agree with this. He is also at times trying to be a player he's not and almost trying to play a Chaplow type role which isn't what we want from him. We want him trying to find space to receive the ball and do the damage with the ball at his feet, we need that even more with Ramirez out.

[derry]

Lallana needs somebody to do the job that stifles his talent and neuters his threat. Most people on here can tell us what is or isn't wrong and who isn't very good. Expert at saying what won't work but not a word about how do we stop leaking three goals a game except shuffle the pack. In the end we have to be better defensively and unless Adkins waves a wand and makes his players defend better the only way I can see of tightening up within a straitjacket of 433 is play a defender as a front sweeper.

 

In the end the mistakes happen close in and the ball ends up in our net. We need to defend from the front and reinforce the midfield with a defender or/and make more effort to get goal side earlier in greater numbers and pressure the ball harder. I see Mancini today coaching his defenders and forwards separately in how to move laterally as a group and pressure in numbers something that Barcelona are brilliant at, the moment they lose possession.

[CanadaSaint]

WRT the tactical discussion, no system in the world is going to make up for individual errors born out of lacking concentration and a habitual tendency to ball-watch, which IMO are the things at the root of our defensive frailty. When you add together a tendency to ball-watch with a commitment to zonal marking, you have a recipe for abject disaster. They got away with it to a point in the Championship but the weaknesses are ruthlessly exploited in the PL, where teams don't just spot the weakness but have the skill and the quick-thinking to attack it. That said, however, when our players (and it's not just defenders) aren't ball watching or going on mental walkabouts, most of them actually look PL standard - to me at least, which explains why we're much better when we have the ball than when we don't.

 

WRT the thread topic, I really like Lallana but he needs to stop being such a (highly talented) "fart in a thunderstorm" and start developing a clearer role and identity within the structure we use - one which will hopefully involve a consistently-better final delivery and more shooting from the edge of the box. A Newcastle-supporting friend of mine asked me the other day what Lallana's role is in our team and I was hard-pressed to give him a decent answer, which say it all really. But maybe it's just me.

[forever a red and white]

Lallana is not part of the problem but I think that Rickie and the team would get a lot more out of Lallana if he was playing LW and being more involved in the final third, where we have struggled, and he tends to make a big difference!