Wiggles31 Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 I think part of our defensive frailties are partly responsible with the formations we have been using. Last season 4-4-2 or 4-diamond-2 was hugely successful for us (got us promoted ffs!) and we have gone completely against it suddenly because we are in the Prem. Lambert had a partner who he could link up with. Full backs got forward. We still played great passing football but weren’t afraid to knock the diagonals to Lambert. So far in this league Lambert has proved he’ll win most balls against the best of defenders yet he is for a large part isolated on his own – especially away and if he is even playing. Fancy formations are better used for teams in the top half. For a promoted team to U-turn against the previous formation that was so successful is risky. It’s no wonder the team look completely in balanced and left open at the back. Obviously we all know our CB’s are not quite good enough but we can’t change that till January. Wanna see us play 4-4-2 on Sunday and would like to see Mayuka play off Lambert. 4-3-3 can do one for now. We simply are not good enough to suddenly adapt to a formation like that or the other weird one we use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 NA has said that we will play 433, so that is what I expect. Someone mentioned that this has been implemented all the way through the club, not just the first team, so that the younger players get used to the system and know exactly what is expected of them in their role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Be interesting to see what happens when Cork is fit, as when Ramirez was playing, we kind of changed our play. Ramirez was in a free role, with 2 'wingers' and a CF so he was taking one of those CM roles. And at Everton we played 4-diamond-2, with the front 2 playing very wide with Ramirez as almost a false 9 position. I don't see Ramirez as a RW but I think it's too narrow if we play both Lallana and Ramirez floating with one up front. Interesting decisions from NA once everyone is fit. (Obviously I'm not counting Tadanari as he's never fit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 23 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 23 October, 2012 You could see Ramirez playing at the tip of the diamond. Just question whether we are good enough to play 4-3-3 regularly. It leaves the flanks exposed an our full backs very open. When we defend we don't appear to change into a 4-5-1 very effectively. That said we looked amazing in that second half against Villa with Ramirez. He is really is going to be a big player for us this season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 It's a choice between leaving our flanks more exposed and getting overrun in the middle of the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 You could see Ramirez playing at the tip of the diamond. Just question whether we are good enough to play 4-3-3 regularly. It leaves the flanks exposed an our full backs very open. When we defend we don't appear to change into a 4-5-1 very effectively. That said we looked amazing in that second half against Villa with Ramirez. He is really is going to be a big player for us this season! Agree with your comments re Ramirez being the key to our survival. He really was tremendous against Villa, I do think he will shine in whatever system we play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambertsrightleg Posted 24 October, 2012 Share Posted 24 October, 2012 If we play 4-4-2 we will get torn apart. You can't get away with having two men up top whilst the area in front of your back four gets torn to shreds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 24 October, 2012 Share Posted 24 October, 2012 Just to put the myth to bed that 4-3-3 is some alien formation forced upon Adkins by Cortese and Reed, it is worth pointing out that 4-3-3 was the default formation employed by Adkins when he successfully kept Scunny in the championship. No doubt his concerns -being overrun in midfield etc- have motivated his thinking on life in the prem. Yes he tinkered with the formation at Scunny but he's done the same here. But a default 4-3-3 seemed to have worked. http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Brist...ail/story.html In other words, he's been a long-time believer in 4-3-3 - long before Cortese had visions of being a football chairman and living out any repressed fantasies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 24 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 24 October, 2012 So no team in the bottom half plays 4-4-2 in the Premiership because they'll get torn to sheds? I can see your point but for me the full backs are really struggling so far and I think the 4-2-3-1 system is causing this due to the narrowness of the set up. Plus Lallana, JRod, Puncheon etc. don't seem to have learnt how to cover and defend effectively let. Especially Lallana and Puncheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 24 October, 2012 Share Posted 24 October, 2012 But when we're trying to defend a lead everybody drops back and we play 1-10-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 24 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 24 October, 2012 Personally I think Adkins has tinkered too soon with our formation. Maybe under pressure from NC to fit Ramirez into the team and play the 'Southampton way'. We don't have a good balance between attack/defend playing this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambertsrightleg Posted 24 October, 2012 Share Posted 24 October, 2012 Ten years ago the style used to be to play with two wide wingers and get balls into the two front men. With the explosion of a more technical style of football the trend is to now play with a lone front man ad have two wide men joining in. Thus, the danger area now is really the area in front of the central defenders especially when playing against a team with an attacking central midfield player. Playing 4-4-2 not only exposes this area because your two midfield players are drawn out to close down but also makes it easy to play between the lines. Controlling the centre of the park is key which is why we need 3 players in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 24 October, 2012 Share Posted 24 October, 2012 Ten years ago the style used to be to play with two wide wingers and get balls into the two front men. With the explosion of a more technical style of football the trend is to now play with a lone front man ad have two wide men joining in. Thus, the danger area now is really the area in front of the central defenders especially when playing against a team with an attacking central midfield player. Playing 4-4-2 not only exposes this area because your two midfield players are drawn out to close down but also makes it easy to play between the lines. Controlling the centre of the park is key which is why we need 3 players in there Sorry if I appear a bit thick, but if you're playing 4-3-3 instead of 4-4-2 then how is that helping to control the centre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 24 October, 2012 Share Posted 24 October, 2012 Sorry if I appear a bit thick, but if you're playing 4-3-3 instead of 4-4-2 then how is that helping to control the centre? Ain't that a fact How's the ticker now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 24 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 24 October, 2012 It may help the middle (debatable) but it certainly leaves the back four exposed and the flanks. All IMO of course. We do miss Cork I think, he would fit in well in the middle 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 24 October, 2012 Share Posted 24 October, 2012 It may help the middle (debatable) but it certainly leaves the back four exposed and the flanks. All IMO of course. We do miss Cork I think, he would fit in well in the middle 3. Not if the four compact and slide across to the threatened flank. Only better if 5 in midfield but we don't do that well. Usually too little too late from front men changing from attacking 433 to defending 451. We've conceded more than a few from dead balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 24 October, 2012 Share Posted 24 October, 2012 Ain't that a fact How's the ticker now? All tickerty-boo, thanks. It's the rest of me that I'm worried about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 24 October, 2012 Share Posted 24 October, 2012 I know the feeling, it's called ageing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Posted 25 October, 2012 Share Posted 25 October, 2012 Interesting tactical analysis on Clyne's performances so far this season. Suggest he is good at identifying when to tuck in or stay wide when defending, a trait which is not always evident with other full backs. http://thinkfootball.co.uk/tactical-analysis-nathaniel-clyne-is-southamptons-shining-light/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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