Still think we will stay up?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Jesus, someone more patience that me explain to this person how we can do jack-sh*t to improve this defence until January, when another dozen games have expired and we are most likely adrift...

 

Can someone explain to this broken record how a few bad results does not a season make.

 

can someone that has frequented this forum longer than I inform me if this person resorted to the same petulant bed-wetting & foot-stomping after our bad runs in L1 & last season?

 

I do seem to recall a few times last season where said poster was quite categoric in his assertions that we would not get promoted whilst in the midst of our bad run. How'd that prediction work out for you?

[Window Cleaner]

We are always crap after international breaks, think we train too hard and get over complacent from the fact that we can deal with our own players.

[Whitey Grandad]

Too late? It's not even November!

 

I'm not saying we are doing well, or that things don't need to (drastically) improve, but this seems pretty knee-jerk to me.

 

We aren't even a quarter of the way through the season, and we aren't (yet) adrift from the table yet.

We're already 8 games into a 38 game season and we have 4 points. Now, a couple of wins would change that pretty quickly but we are already a couple of wins behind what's needed and I see nothing about our defence that leads me to believe that we can get organised into a tight-fisted unit that only lets in an average of 0.5 goals per game, let alone a run of clean sheets. I would dearly love to be proved wrong.

[alpine_saint]

No, the joy last April was completely worth it.

 

I hope you will still feel like that next April.

 

For me, the League 1 promotion, with that incredible run-in, feels bigger.

[Colinjb]

I hope you will still feel like that next April.

 

For me, the League 1 promotion, with that incredible run-in, feels bigger.

 

I will. The worst that can happen by then is that we end up back where we started!

[alpine_saint]

Can someone explain to this broken record how a few bad results does not a season make.

 

can someone that has frequented this forum longer than I inform me if this person resorted to the same petulant bed-wetting & foot-stomping after our bad runs in L1 & last season?

 

I do seem to recall a few times last season where said poster was quite categoric in his assertions that we would not get promoted whilst in the midst of our bad run. How'd that prediction work out for you?

 

A "few bad results" ??? Even from Austria I get an impression of how bad we are playing and how bad our defence is better than you.

 

FFS, wake up, man. We had NO runs like this in L1 or the NPC.

[Norm]

Our fortunes will begin to change for the better when we have some players back from injury, like Cork, Ramirez and Lee for example. Had those three been available, I'm fairly happy that we would have been a bit further ahead in the table.

 

And despite the recent results which have knocked the confidence of some posters, I still believe that not only will we survive, but we will be comfortably mid-table come the end of the season.

 

 

 

On that positive note (thank you), I think I will ****** off for a break from here. This place makes me bloody depressed. Thank the heavens that there was no www during the past 'bad' years. My parting shot for a while, I've seen some real bad times in my 56 years of supporting Saints and I can tell you that these are not bad times now! We have lost a few games but we have winnable games coming up imo.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

A "few bad results" ??? Even from Austria I get an impression of how bad we are playing and how bad our defence is better than you.

 

FFS, wake up, man. We had NO runs like this in L1 or the NPC.

 

Tell me where I have said it is good? Or even, anything short of awful.

 

The stats don't lie, our defence is by far the worst in the league.

 

BUT, despite this, we are not yet miles adrift at the bottom of the table. And to the best of my knowledge, the season does not end after 8 games.

 

There are still 7 months or 30 games of the season left. Yes, if things carry on as they are we will be in trouble. However, I don't believe we are at the panic stations WE ARE DOOMED point which you like to purvey at every given opportunity.

 

However you have chosen to ignore this, and make an entirely separate point.

[alpine_saint]

Tell me where I have said it is good? Or even, anything short of awful.

 

The stats don't lie, our defence is by far the worst in the league.

 

BUT, despite this, we are not yet miles adrift at the bottom of the table. And to the best of my knowledge, the season does not end after 8 games.

 

There are still 7 months or 30 games of the season left. Yes, if things carry on as they are we will be in trouble. However, I don't believe we are at the panic stations WE ARE DOOMED point which you like to purvey at every given opportunity.

 

However you have chosen to ignore this, and make an entirely separate point.

 

No, I havent. You are choosing, however to ignore we can do NOTHING about this defence until January.

 

Do you really think Fonte and Fox are suddenly going to wake up one day anything other than as crap as they were the day before ? The defence is as crap as it was on Day 1, even international breaks dont help it to improve.

 

That and the pre-telegraphed 433 formation to our opponents is our death-warrant.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

No, I havent. You are choosing, however to ignore we can do NOTHING about this defence until January.

 

Do you really think Fonte and Fox are suddenly going to wake up one day anything other than as crap as they were the day before ? The defence is as crap as it was on Day 1, even international breaks dont help it to improve.

 

That and the pre-telegraphed 433 formation to our opponents is our death-warrant.

 

Well seeing as we can't do a huge amount about it until January, what is the point in acting like a brat and getting ones knickers in such a knot?

 

Fonte, has looked ok in spells. He hasn't played in this league before, and may well be still adjusting - or is that a totally alien concept? No player has ever had a rocky start to their Premier League career before getting better have they?

 

Teams do get better, and it can take the smallest thing to change around their fortunes.

 

History is littered with such examples. Who knows what a bit more tinkering could result in? Clearly this alone, or some magical divine intervention isn't going to save everything. But stranger things have happened, and will happen again. A couple of good, even flukey, results could quickly turn in to a decent run and players confidence may well return.

 

Or should the team, management and fans just take your view that nothing can be done, the season is over and we already relegated?

 

All I have actually said is that as of yet, there is still time to turn things round, and we are not yet as f*cked as the message you and band of (un)merry matrons like peddle around these parts.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

There is holding a different view then there is holding a different view for the sake of being negative and trying to **** stir. Sorry Fitzhugh but anyone who bases opinion of someone from rumours they hear down the pub or from what Dave the chippy heard from his mate who knows someone who cleans the toilets is well and truely a mong. But hey I will edit that part out as it seems to have caused some offence!

 

I agree about people making up rumours to justify their point of view is tiresome but, in the absence of much info officially emanating out of the club, this forum as such, has to rely on a lot of heresay. Personally unless I know where the story has come from I tend to ignore it but just sometimes you hear the same story from several trustworthy people and I tend to pay them more mind. I heard about Lambert's bust up with NA via a PM on here shortly after the Fulham game. At first I was sceptical but then a mate who knows RL's dad came up with the same story and then someone else with connections mentioned it so in the end going by the balance of probablilities I will regard it as true and use it when debating the pros and cons. By and large on here you get to know who to believe and who not to. Thanks for the edit btw.

[Wes Tender]

I agree about people making up rumours to justify their point of view is tiresome but, in the absence of much info officially emanating out of the club, this forum as such, has to rely on a lot of heresy.

 

I corrected this for you, Duncan.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I don't normally think the obvious early season strugglers will end up going down. Especially ones with attacking talent. Trying to be objective, you see Ramirez coming back in, goalscorers and money to spend in january. Defensively it simply can't get worse, they've been that bad. so with a consistent keeper choice and defenders calming down a bit, Cork coming back, improvement seems inevitable.

 

If anyone dares point out the obvious that the bottom half of the prem isn't that great, delldays will assume you've said the entire league is average and post it 500 times. but it's always tight, teams beat each other and there won't be much of a gap between 11th and 18th. So everyone can still get out of trouble, and many into trouble.

 

Boring as it might be, I'll judge it after 38 games, I've seen too many seasons and too many clubs to make daft conclusions based on short periods of form, good or bad.

 

 

You aren't allowed to do that!

 

Things are set in stone as of now! Nothing will change!

 

Why bother watching the rest of the season?

[Wes Tender]

I don't normally think the obvious early season strugglers will end up going down. Especially ones with attacking talent. Trying to be objective, you see Ramirez coming back in, goalscorers and money to spend in january. Defensively it simply can't get worse, they've been that bad. so with a consistent keeper choice and defenders calming down a bit, Cork coming back, improvement seems inevitable.

 

If anyone dares point out the obvious that the bottom half of the prem isn't that great, delldays will assume you've said the entire league is average and post it 500 times. but it's always tight, teams beat each other and there won't be much of a gap between 11th and 18th. So everyone can still get out of trouble, and many into trouble.

 

Boring as it might be, I'll judge it after 38 games, I've seen too many seasons and too many clubs to make daft conclusions based on short periods of form, good or bad.

 

What an eminently sensible position to adopt, Adrian.

[Gambol2K9]

Bit of a cheek having been negative over the weekend, then calling those still of a negative disposition today "mongs".

 

We will be plenty of points adrift by the time we can do anything about our defence; we are going down.

 

Serious question - do you actually ever get any enjoyment from football? Judging from your posts it seems to be a constant source of misery for you. I'm not sure why you still follow it.

[Window Cleaner]

I agree about people making up rumours to justify their point of view is tiresome but, in the absence of much info officially emanating out of the club, this forum as such, has to rely on a lot of heresay. Personally unless I know where the story has come from I tend to ignore it but just sometimes you hear the same story from several trustworthy people and I tend to pay them more mind. I heard about Lambert's bust up with NA via a PM on here shortly after the Fulham game. At first I was sceptical but then a mate who knows RL's dad came up with the same story and then someone else with connections mentioned it so in the end going by the balance of probablilities I will regard it as true and use it when debating the pros and cons. By and large on here you get to know who to believe and who not to. Thanks for the edit btw.

 

But surely a "bust up" shouldn't effect professional decisions unless they concern sticking to game instructions or personal fitness issues.

[stardustonmyfeet]

As per my now blocked thread. Cortese has lost one of spoons. It's a true story.

He must be pretty forked off with things at the moment.

[yorkiesaint]

Only 3 teams have survived a goal difference of -8 or more after 8 games in the 21st century, although Wigan have done it twice. The good news (?) is that we are one of them! However, then we had 6 points and -9 GD and went on to finish mid table with a goal difference of -8.

 

Goal difference after 8 games, league of shame this century:

 

2007-8 Derby -16 Relegated

2003-4 Wolves -15 Relegated

2009-10 Hull -12 Relegated

2001-2 Leicester -12 Relegated

2012-13 SAINTS -11 ??

2012-13 Norwich -11 ??

2011-12 Bolton -10 Relegated

2012-13 QPR -10 ??

2005-6 Everton -10 Survived

2011-12 Blackburn -9 Relegated

2010-11 W Ham -9 Relegated

2010-11 Wigan -9 Survived on GD

2009-10 Burnley -9 Relegated

2009-10 Skates -9 Relegated

2007-8 Reading -9 Relegated

2006-7 Charlton -9 Relegated

2003-4 leeds -9 Relegated

2002-3 S'land -9 Relegated

2001-2 Derby -9 Relegated

2001-2 SAINTS -9 Survived!

2011-12 Wigan -8 Survived

2005-6 W Brob -8 Relegated

2002-3 W ham -8 Relegated

2002-3 W Brom -8 Relegated

2000-1 Bradford -8 Relegated

[S-Clarke]

There. You've done it. Didnt hurt that much, did it ?

 

FWIW, I share your last sentiments, but its going to be tough keeping in touch.

 

If I'm honest with you Alps I trusted our players too much. I ignored the failings towards the end of last season and brushed them under the carpet, the obvious reality is that those failings weren't fixed and are now being shown up in the big league.

 

I'm personally gutted by our start, I knew we had a tough start on paper...but I thought once we got through that, we'd start to look competitive, but we look anything but. I want to be positive, I want to believe we'll stay up and I believe we will as that's my mindset, but that will come about due to a change in January to certain positions - something I must admit should have been done in the summer (I even felt disappointed we didn't get the LB and 2nd cb I felt we needed - but I didn't imagine it hurting us this much).

 

I think we'll still be in touch come Jan, mainly due to us having games against the teams around us - so if we can avoid losing to them, then we can keep them all within striking distance.

[David Strover]

Not a hope in hell....sorry but the writing is already on the wall and we are not getting better and we can't put anything right until January by which time the losing culture will have pervaded throughout the whole support and club.

 

It has happened to a lot of clubs and we are not any different.

[S-Clarke]

Not a hope in hell....sorry but the writing is already on the wall and we are not getting better and we can't put anything right until January by which time the losing culture will have pervaded throughout the whole support and club.

 

It has happened to a lot of clubs and we are not any different.

 

To throw a bit of a positive spin on this.

 

After 17 games, on 28th December 2010 Blackpool were 8th in the Premier League with 25 points.

 

Wolves were bottom 10 points away from Blackpool.

 

5 months later, Blackpool were relegated and Wolves survived.

 

What I'm trying to get at is the PL is a long, hard, slog. Teams will have good runs, bad runs, and inconsistent runs all throughout the season. I think we'll improve, heck...that's all we can do from here, so on that basis we still have our best run of the season to come.

 

Nothing is decided after 8 games, and as shown in Blackpool's season - not even 17 games. There's not much we can do until January, but we have a bunch of fixtures coming up which we need to take the most from and things may start to look brighter come January.

[Saint Charlie]

To throw a bit of a positive spin on this.

 

After 17 games, on 28th December 2010 Blackpool were 8th in the Premier League with 25 points.

 

Wolves were bottom 10 points away from Blackpool.

 

5 months later, Blackpool were relegated and Wolves survived.

 

What I'm trying to get at is the PL is a long, hard, slog. Teams will have good runs, bad runs, and inconsistent runs all throughout the season. I think we'll improve, heck...that's all we can do from here, so on that basis we still have our best run of the season to come.

 

Nothing is decided after 8 games, and as shown in Blackpool's season - not even 17 games. There's not much we can do until January, but we have a bunch of fixtures coming up which we need to take the most from and things may start to look brighter come January.

 

This - its easy to forget but at times we have played well this season. If we can get a bit of consistency of selection in the back 5 and get Ramirez back then we arent a terrible team.

 

If we have 15-20 points by Xmas/New year then we will be ok.

[S-Clarke]

This - its easy to forget but at times we have played well this season. If we can get a bit of consistency of selection in the back 5 and get Ramirez back then we arent a terrible team.

 

If we have 15-20 points by Xmas/New year then we will be ok.

 

Frustratingly, we have played well for periods of games. We've looked the better team on occasions, even against the Manchester clubs. Our constant errors are our Achilles hill though, and my only hope is that we will now start to face a ''lesser'' quality of attacker, so our mistakes - which will probably still happen - aren't going to be punished as frequently.

[Thedelldays]

Frustratingly, we have played well for periods of games. We've looked the better team on occasions, even against the Manchester clubs. Our constant errors are our Achilles hill though, and my only hope is that we will now start to face a ''lesser'' quality of attacker, so our mistakes - which will probably still happen - aren't going to be punished as frequently.

like our last two games...6 goals in:(

[LGTL]

like our last two games...6 goals in:(

 

I'll giver you Fulham, but West Ham do have the most expensive British striker in history. Overpriced mind you.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Tonight I would say our appalling defence, the closed transfer window, and the fact that the manager seems utterly incapable of changing tactics (or coaching any improvement out of the players he has) suggests that we're probably 'nailed on' to be bottom of the table at Christmas. Clubs have managed to extradite themselves from that perilous position in the past - but only rarely I'm afraid.

 

Rightly or wrongly another bad result on Sunday (this seems almost inevitable now) could spell the end of NA's tenure here. Now whether a different manager can do any better with the same bunch of players is another question .....

[S-Clarke]

like our last two games...6 goals in:(

 

I'm trying to scrape the barrel here, you're not helping

[Window Cleaner]

 

Rightly or wrongly another bad result on Sunday (this seems almost inevitable now) could spell the end of NA's tenure here. Now whether a different manager can do any better with the same bunch of players is another question .....

 

 

Nope, if he's here on Sunday next i think he's here for the season. If he was going to be sacked it would have happened by now..or so I think.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Nope, if he's here on Sunday next i think he's here for the season. If he was going to be sacked it would have happened by now..or so I think.

 

You feel that Cortese is the type of Chairman who is prepared to tolerate failure indefinitely?

[Window Cleaner]

You feel that Cortese is the type of Chairman who is prepared to tolerate failure indefinitely?

 

No, but I think he may well be reflecting on some of the crazy transfer decisions that have been made since last April

and finding others than NA wanting. I don't know the gent but I feel that if he was an impulsive sacker then the deed would be done by now, this morning perhaps if not yesterrday so I just get the impression that it's not going to happen at all, perhaps I'm wrong in thinking that though. Wouldn't be at all surprised if we gat a sacking in the near future though cos it's clear as day that someone is going to pay the price for our left back and centre half situation before long.

[Turkish]

I thought that, thought that Everton looked distinctly average without Fellaini as well. 2 old centre backs though, I'm sure that there's a lesson to be learned there somewhere.

 

I don't normally think the obvious early season strugglers will end up going down. Especially ones with attacking talent. Trying to be objective, you see Ramirez coming back in, goalscorers and money to spend in january. Defensively it simply can't get worse, they've been that bad. so with a consistent keeper choice and defenders calming down a bit, Cork coming back, improvement seems inevitable.

 

If anyone dares point out the obvious that the bottom half of the prem isn't that great, delldays will assume you've said the entire league is average and post it 500 times. but it's always tight, teams beat each other and there won't be much of a gap between 11th and 18th. So everyone can still get out of trouble, and many into trouble.

 

Boring as it might be, I'll judge it after 38 games, I've seen too many seasons and too many clubs to make daft conclusions based on short periods of form, good or bad.

 

What about the evidence in front of you that of the four games against teams likely to finish in the bottom half we've played 4 won 1 drew 1 lost 2. And conceded 8 goals. That'll give us around 19 points come the end of the season if we don't improve considerably, bearing in mind we've taken 0 points in four games against the top 10 sides.

[David Strover]

To throw a bit of a positive spin on this.

 

After 17 games, on 28th December 2010 Blackpool were 8th in the Premier League with 25 points.

 

Wolves were bottom 10 points away from Blackpool.

 

5 months later, Blackpool were relegated and Wolves survived.

 

What I'm trying to get at is the PL is a long, hard, slog. Teams will have good runs, bad runs, and inconsistent runs all throughout the season. I think we'll improve, heck...that's all we can do from here, so on that basis we still have our best run of the season to come.

 

Nothing is decided after 8 games, and as shown in Blackpool's season - not even 17 games. There's not much we can do until January, but we have a bunch of fixtures coming up which we need to take the most from and things may start to look brighter come January.

 

This is a fair and well thought out. I am not trying to be overly pessimistic but the biggest problem that I see us having is that we just can't stop letting in goals and I don't see any fix on the horizon. Adkins does not tell his players to switch off for ten minutes or so, do totally illogical and no defensive things or play excessively nervously - and they've been doing this more or less for eight games.

 

I cannot see any game where we won't let in at least two goals which means in the Premiership we are going to lose most matches. Even QPR and Norwich and even Reading appear to be better than us at the moment.

 

Personally I just can't see us suddenly stop letting in shedloads of goals.

 

I really hope I'm wrong, really, really but I just can't see it.

 

It is going to be a long hard season - I already don't look forward to Saturday afternoons.

[gonzo]

If the defence doesn't get sorted, then we can look forward to the championship again. However, staying up certainly isn't impossible. But we need to cut out the moments of madness, and soon. Once you're a few points adrift, it becomes more and more difficult.

[Turkish]

You know what turkish i reckoned some part of that story was true, and i was looking forward to getting the inside "scoop" till the dumb mods locked it.

 

Give it me straight, without hyperbole or embellishments. Is it a literal spoon he's lost?

 

Yep, a spoon from his private set. It was such a serious issue a number of staff were ordered to find it instead of doing their day jobs.

 

As things stand, I beleive the spoon remains missing.

[melmacian_saint]

First season:

 

Norwich took 5 games to win.

Swansea took 5 games to score.

 

I would have loved if it had taken us only 5 games to get a clean sheet (to compliment the weird start), however it's past that too...let's hope 8 is enough.

[Dalek2003]

I don't know why people are so depressed.

I have said consistently that we got promoted earlier than expected and thus we were not ready for promotion in terms of our sustainable 5 year plan.

Sure, we are giving it a good go this year but the club IMO always saw relegation as about a 70% possibility.

We have seen how clubs can build gradually using the prmeier money in the NPC and become a yoyo club and then finally consolidate in the Premier league.

Sit back and relax. we are ok.

[alpine_saint]

No, but I think he may well be reflecting on some of the crazy transfer decisions that have been made since last April

and finding others than NA wanting. I don't know the gent but I feel that if he was an impulsive sacker then the deed would be done by now, this morning perhaps if not yesterrday so I just get the impression that it's not going to happen at all, perhaps I'm wrong in thinking that though. Wouldn't be at all surprised if we gat a sacking in the near future though cos it's clear as day that someone is going to pay the price for our left back and centre half situation before long.

 

I posted something similar earlier.

 

NC isnt stupid, and he appears to have had a great working relationship with NA up to this season. Maybe he has woken up to the fact that the way he drove the transfer window was misguided, in private accepts he was also to blame, and therefore isnt ready to string up NA yet. He maybe a hard-faced businessman, but he follows the Germanic model and not the Anglo-Saxon model, so is more forgiving and less hasty.

[dronskisaint]

After having the weekend to think a bit more about it and even after voting in the poll that maybe it was time for Adkins to go, I have changed my mind on that and think we can and will stay up.

 

So why do I feel so confident we will survive despite the fact we seem to be letting in more goals then Katie Price let's in men?

 

Simple really. We are only 1 point away from safety and 2 wins from mid-table. We are not stuck on the bottom 10 or 15 points adrift.

 

But other then that I think if your honest about it and look at the games other then the result we have done very well. In those games how many were 1 sided beatings that reflect the scoreline? Other then Arsenal game none of them.

In the vast majority of games this season we have been competative and even looked like winning a few of them. The two games against the Manchester clubs we were so close, the Everton game we started well and had a funny 10 minutes then dominated the game again. It is these little spells that are costing us.

It isn't the chairman picking the team that is costing us, it isn't the manager leaving out players that are costing us. It is individual mistakes by the players at bad times which are. The subs sometimes do not help but again look at yesterday, was that really a 4-1 win for West Ham? Not at all.

 

Playing the way we are playing means that we are creating chances and we are in the game. Our problem is that while we are so attacking minded we are vunerable to counter attacks and that is what teams seem to be doing. Our defence is our weakness. Is that a manager problem? Is that a chairman problem? Its a bit of both. We should not have been going into a season in the PL with a back line of players who have not played and performed in it before. Those players are learning at this level too and naturally they will make mistakes. Come January I think we will bring in a proper central defender who has the experience and quality. Having just one of those who can talk to and lead the other three will make a huge difference.

 

It will come good in the end.

 

This, well reasoned and lacking in hysteria...

[Bearsy]

Yep, a spoon from his private set. It was such a serious issue a number of staff were ordered to find it instead of doing their day jobs.

 

As things stand, I beleive the spoon remains missing.

 

Sweet! I hope the first team squad is involved with the search. Given the gravity of the situation, i imagine they was.

 

Personally, I suspect Chaplow hid it somewhere for lolz and for bantz. He seems like the type.

[latter day saint]

Sweet! I hope the first team squad is involved with the search. Given the gravity of the situation, i imagine they was.

 

Personally, I suspect Chaplow hid it somewhere for lolz and for bantz. He seems like the type.

i think its a team building exercise. Cortese has seen moral flagging & taken it upon himself to bring it back up to its usually high levels.

i bet Nigel is beaming like a f*cking cheshire cat as he searches around under tables with a flashlight!