Whitey Grandad Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 Not what he wrote. Oi! Why not ask me? What I was trying to say was that the most important thing is that whoever we sign is good enough for the Premiership even if thay haven't played in it before. I'm sure that Gastón is for example. BUt I also think that we need a core of players who have been there and done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 I see where you're coming from but i think it's ambiguous. It's like if i said Whitey Grandad the nicest sex is vaginal, and he said substitute anal for vaginal and I agree with you. Or if i said Whitey Grandad the nicest sex is anal, and he said substitute anal for vaginal and I agree with you. You feel me? You leave me out of this - I am not qualified or experienced enough to comment. I bow to your superior knowledge. Well, not with my back to you, no offence, like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 I have heard that the transfers we were about to complete this summer were; Jordi Alba Sergio Ramos Lucio Daniel Alves I think we would have been ok with that back four, but Adkins listened to saintsweb and turned them all down due to lack of premiership experience. Thing that gives me most hope this season - seeing likes of Alpine confirming our relegation - knowing he knows f all, and has been wrong every season means we will probably do ok! Premiership is not some unique style that players can't cope with....its higher quality. I've seen Ramierez once, he had no prem experience, he was a mile better than any other player on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 Oi! Why not ask me? What I was trying to say was that the most important thing is that whoever we sign is good enough for the Premiership even if thay haven't played in it before. I'm sure that Gastón is for example. BUt I also think that we need a core of players who have been there and done it. Thanks for clarifying WG :toppa: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 "£30million spent on players with no Premiership experience!" exclaims the headline. And in the first sentence... As it says in the title we have spent one of the highest amounts on transfer fees and we haven't brought any experience with one or two exceptions. This surely is a basic basic error one that I feel only cortese's influence could have made Adkins isn't that dumb or is he? You don't work for the echo do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 (edited) Whose responsible? Whoever decided that purchasing Championship level players (for £7m) to replace L1 players when we'd already hit the Prem running was a good thing. I suspect it's the likes of Reid and his buddies presenting a fait accompli to Cortese who did nothing more or less than to place his trust in Reid (that's what top business men do - they trust their 'generals'). Reid as a Director has the clout to make those purchases - I doubt greatly that NA has the balls to stand up to Reid and Cortese and say - "nah, don't want that guy" (e.g. J-Rod). If Nigel HAS had anything to do with not buying a defence in the summer, then I suspect he's toast. Edited 23 October, 2012 by Saint Fan CaM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Oi! Why not ask me? What I was trying to say was that the most important thing is that whoever we sign is good enough for the Premiership even if thay haven't played in it before. I'm sure that Gastón is for example. BUt I also think that we need a core of players who have been there and done it. My humble apologies . Nice reply though, completely defuses the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 My humble apologies . Nice reply though, completely defuses the argument. No worries. :-) It seems to me that with one or two exceptions we have been buying top quality Championship players in the hope that they can cut it in the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Someone like Benfica? For say about £25m?? With no Premiership experience??? I must be making this up or did they really sign David Luiz. Who spent the first few months of his Chelsea career being ridiculed for running around like a headless chicken. Thankfully, he had some decent CB's with Premiership experience alongside him who he was able to learn off. He's now a totally different player to the one they originally signed. Positional awareness has improved massively and he doesn't go on his suicidal runs forward as often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 My humble apologies . Nice reply though, completely defuses the argument. Hi Alps - can you try resending the PM with your apology and rescind your claim of myself being the fool here as the PM doesn't seem to have come through. Lots of love, NNC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Who spent the first few months of his Chelsea career being ridiculed for running around like a headless chicken. Thankfully, he had some decent CB's with Premiership experience alongside him who he was able to learn off. He's now a totally different player to the one they originally signed. Positional awareness has improved massively and he doesn't go on his suicidal runs forward as often. Stop digging TCM, you've already reached your target depth of desperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Stop digging TCM, you've already reached your target depth of desperation. The fact you had to reply with that means you don't have a comeback. Just admit you've been outwitted and we'll move on, thus saving you further embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 The fact you had to reply with that means you don't have a comeback. Just admit you've been outwitted and we'll move on, thus saving you further embarrassment. Looking for closure a bit quick eh? According to you... Chelsea spent £25m on a headless, foreign chicken with no premiership experience expecting him to come good because he was surrounded by players with premiership experience. I won't go down in internet history as the first and last person that you outwitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Looking for closure a bit quick eh? According to you... Chelsea spent £25m on a headless, foreign chicken with no premiership experience expecting him to come good because he was surrounded by players with premiership experience. I won't go down in internet history as the first and last person that you outwitted. Yes, that's what I said. Why is it so hard for you to grasp? Here are some quotes from Chelsea when they signed him, I've highlighted the keywords for you; Their Chief Exec "David Luiz is one of the great defensive prospects in world football" Luiz himself "It is a major challenge for me but I am determined to adapt to this excellent league" So yes, they spent £21m on a defender who they were hoping to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Re-re-wind Why didn't they go out and sign some CB from Juve, Real or someone for £30m? Think it was this point that I pointed out the excellent signing of David Luiz. Keep digging though TCM, you've broken through the Desperation layer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Why the incessant mentioning of 30? Huge chunk on Ramirez who everyone is delighted to have. I'm sure he'll contribute a lot and clearly has huge talent. I couldn't give a toss about prem experience, I'd prefer quality. If you want both, you need hundreds of millions. It's completely irrelevant anyway. Take saints out the equation (which most seem incapable of) and look at other sides. Newcastle didn't sign prem experience. They did well because of quality, regardless of where it's from. Norwich and Swansea didn't either. QPR have a huge amount of prem experience, 90% of it garbage and overpaid. I didn't see us linked with one experienced prem player who was really worth signing. Scott Dann? Great, top flight experience. We have enough dodgy defenders. Dawson would be great if vaguely fit but good quality with experience isn't something other clubs give away easily. You know I looked at this thread before I went home yesterday but didn't have time to reply. I was going to say this whole 'Premiership Experience' line is complete tosh and use Newcastle and Scott Dann as examples! Weren't we linked with Dann for about £9 million? Glad we didn't sign him. So essentially what he said. With the key bit being:- "but good quality with experience isn't something other clubs give away easily" Please someone in this thread list some proven, quality centre back or left back with premiership experience who we could have afforded and would have wanted to sign in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 You know I looked at this thread before I went home yesterday but didn't have time to reply. I was going to say this whole 'Premiership Experience' line is complete tosh and use Newcastle and Scott Dann as examples! Weren't we linked with Dann for about £9 million? Glad we didn't sign him. So essentially what he said. With the key bit being:- "but good quality with experience isn't something other clubs give away easily" Please someone in this thread list some proven, quality centre back or left back with premiership experience who we could have afforded and would have wanted to sign in the summer. James Collins any good to you ? Available:tick, Affordable; tick Prem Experience; tick want to sign for us ; sticky one, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 James Collins any good to you ? Available:tick, Affordable; tick Prem Experience; tick want to sign for us ; sticky one, who knows. Firstly he's not that good, secondly he went to West Ham pretty early and would have always chosen them ahead of us because he had played for them before and was well liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 James Collins any good to you ? Available:tick, Affordable; tick Prem Experience; tick want to sign for us ; sticky one, who knows. Firstly he's not that good, secondly he went to West Ham pretty early and would have always chosen them ahead of us because he had played for them before and was well liked. Finally if he's so good, why did Villa let him go so easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Brede Hangeland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 There has got to be someone or something we can blame for our miserable start FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Firstly he's not that good, secondly he went to West Ham pretty early and would have always chosen them ahead of us because he had played for them before and was well liked. Finally if he's so good, why did Villa let him go so easily? So in fact what you're saying here is that we are not a desirable destination even for players who "aren't that good". You don't have to be that good to be better than Seaborne or Jos the catastrophe. Hooieveld is a disaster in this League, the thing is that as we don't have a left back we have to keep playng him. I do not doubt that we would have beaten Fulham if we hadn't had to call on Jos after a few minutes and move Yoshi out to full back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 (edited) Please someone in this thread list some proven, quality centre back or left back with premiership experience who we could have afforded and would have wanted to sign in the summer. Just some examples off the top of my head. We were linked at one stage with Robert Huth and Jonny Heitinga; no idea how much they were being talked about for so don't know if we could have affored them, but either would have made a fantastic difference to us and I'd have liked us to prioritise a signing of this type (Heitinga was player of the year last season for Everton but now playing second fiddle to Jagielka and Distin). Ryan Nelsen went to QPR on a free; higher wages perhaps but a decent acquisition for a year or two. Norwich signed Michael Turner and Sebastian Bassong; a couple of very decent signings. James Collins has been mentioned already to West Ham; also George McCartney. Ron Vlaar at Aston Villa could yet be a good signing, he certainly looked it at the time. Danny Rose went to Sunderland on a season-long loan, even Nicky Shorey (to Reading) is an example of a back-up left back we'd probably have benefitted from in the short term. The type of defender we could have brought in isn't going to be a world beater; and admittedly not one to make people say "wow, what a signing" in the way that Ramirez was. And I fully expect people to scoff at some of the names I've listed; maybe they would have worked, maybe they wouldn't. But its fair to say that pretty much all of those listed would be a step up from the basic error-ridden pair of Fonte and Hooiveld (Yoshida hasn't had nearly enough time at centre-back yet to form any realistic opinion of him), and would have solidifed to some degree an area of the pitch where we are very much at our weakest. Edited 23 October, 2012 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 So in fact what you're saying here is that we are not a desirable destination even for players who "aren't that good". You don't have to be that good to be better than Seaborne or Jos the catastrophe. Hooieveld is a disaster in this League, the thing is that as we don't have a left back we have to keep playng him. I do not doubt that we would have beaten Fulham if we hadn't had to call on Jos after a few minutes and move Yoshi out to full back. No I'm saying he would have chosen West Ham over us because he played there before and was well liked by there fans, he had some of his best times in a West Ham shirt. Just some examples off the top of my head. We were linked at one stage with Robert Huth and Jonny Heitinga; no idea how much they were being talked about for so don't know if we could have affored them, but either would have made a fantastic difference to us and I'd have liked us to prioritise a signing of this type (Heitinga was player of the year last season for Everton but now playing second fiddle to Jagielka and Distin). Ryan Nelsen went to QPR on a free; higher wages perhaps but a decent acquisition for a year or two. Norwich signed Michael Turner and Sebastian Bassong; a couple of very decent signings. James Collins has been mentioned already to West Ham; also George McCartney. Ron Vlaar at Aston Villa could yet be a good signing, he certainly looked it at the time. Danny Rose went to Sunderland on a season-long loan, even Nicky Shorey (to Reading) is an example of a back-up left back we'd probably have benefitted from in the short term. The type of defender we could have brought in isn't going to be a world beater; and admittedly not one to make people say "wow, what a signing" in the way that Ramirez was. And I fully expect people to scoff at some of the names I've listed; maybe they would have worked, maybe they wouldn't. But its fair to say that pretty much all of those listed would be a step up from the basic error-ridden pair of Fonte and Hooiveld (Yoshida hasn't had nearly enough time at centre-back yet to form any realistic opinion of him), and would have solidifed to some degree an area of the pitch where we are very much at our weakest. Huth wouldn't have come and Stoke wouldn't have sold. Doubt Heitinga would have come anyway but I think he would have been too much or at least more than we were willing to pay. Nelsen is 34 and is doing nothing for QPR and would be on high wages. Bassong went for close to £6 million, hasn't helped Norwich that much and was part of a relegated Wolves team last year. In fact I remember him making several basic errors for wolves. Turner is no better than what we have, even now. Rose is a midfielder and looks suspect at left back (was directly at fault for Newcastle's goal on Sunday). I'm not going to even comment on Shorey. Thing is can you honestly say that of those players who you have listed, if we had signed them in the summer that they would have been better than Fonte, Hooiveld and Fox? Especially for like £5 million? Especially as a lot of them are defending just as poorly at their current clubs. Hindsight is wonderful thing but I don't think anyone here or at the club thought we would be defending this badly. Most of those on that list aren't even marginally higher in quality than what we already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 rose is miles better than what we have..by a mile...and I remember him getting rubbished when we were linked he is like a left sided clyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 (edited) Hindsight is wonderful thing but I don't think anyone here or at the club thought we would be defending this badly. Most of those on that list aren't even marginally higher in quality than what we already have. First of all; I consider most on that list a step up from what we have. I think Yoshi could yet prove to be decent, so we're probably missing a second decent centre back and a left back (a replacement for Fox; but as it is we don't even have a backup for him, hence why I mentioned Shorey, though clearly you prefer playing our most accomplished centre-back at left-back instead). Secondly; it really isn't hindsight. This is simply a continuation of concerns consistently brought up through pre-season and beyond and why many consider it folly to have implemented such a lop sided approach to transfers (£10M+ on 2 reserve strikers plus £12M on an attacking midfielder; around £5M-£6M spent on 2 defenders and 2 goalkeepers. I'm not going to get into your nitpicking of players; as I said I fully expected nothing but scorn from you, but you asked for a list and that is merely a list of players who actually were signed by other clubs, so an indication of the type of player available. Safe to say I'd have any of the players listed ahead of our current incumbents of Fonte and Hooiveld. Hooiveld has been woefully found out; Fonte needs a strong presence next to him or he goes to pieces. And we've suffered from not providing ourselves with an even an adequate backup to the already struggling Danny Fox. Edited 23 October, 2012 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Bassong went for close to £6 million, hasn't helped Norwich that much Norwich have conceded 17 goals this season. Ten of those goals have come in the two games missed by Sebastien Bassong. Coincidence? Probably. Thought you might be interested tho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Norwich have conceded 17 goals this season. Ten of those goals have come in the two games missed by Sebastien Bassong. Coincidence? Probably. Thought you might be interested tho! Also most reports of his transfer fee I've seen are £4M, not £6M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 Also most reports of his transfer fee I've seen are £4M, not £6M. not that it has any influence on the club..but I remember (there were a lot of these) Rose, Bassong and Collins (west ham) all being linked and pretty much, all being rubbished... even Rose is being rubbished above..depsite being a left sided clyne and a decent player... a back line of Clyne, Collins, Bassong, Rose would be a huge step up from any combination now....HUGE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 not that it has any influence on the club..but I remember (there were a lot of these) Rose, Bassong and Collins (west ham) all being linked and pretty much, all being rubbished... even Rose is being rubbished above..depsite being a left sided clyne and a decent player... a back line of Clyne, Collins, Bassong, Rose would be a huge step up from any combination now....HUGE I think that is pretty obvious to anyone who is prepared to admit it to themselves and others. At the moment our defence is very much Championship standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 I think that is pretty obvious to anyone who is prepared to admit it to themselves and others. At the moment our defence is very much Championship standard. clyne is clearly a talent..but at the mo, he is drowning....I think Yoshida could a be a very good find with the right fella next to him...but the constant changing at the back...some of it forced..some of it not...is ridiculous.. I do agree that we never really got what we need at the back..but I do believe that the club tried and probably came close to doing so.... I wonder if buttner had signed would the need for "prem experience" have been relevant then..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 clyne is clearly a talent..but at the mo, he is drowning....I think Yoshida could a be a very good find with the right fella next to him...but the constant changing at the back...some of it forced..some of it not...is ridiculous.. I do agree that we never really got what we need at the back..but I do believe that the club tried and probably came close to doing so.... I wonder if buttner had signed would the need for "prem experience" have been relevant then..? This "prem experience" thing has gotten out of hand. I don't think anyone suggested that every player we signed should have Premier League experience. However, in 2 or 3 key areas throughout the pitch I believe it would be huge leg up. A solid keeper is a first step; if Boruc gets his sharpness then he may well be that, but in Kelvin and Gazza we've not had that yet (Kelvin's previous PL experience merely served to prove that he is out of his depth at this level). Gazza looks a very good prospect; but you only have to look at de Gea at United to realise that young goalkeepers often aren't the finished article yet. We have a back line with barely any appearances at any top level of football; a centre back with experience would have been a huge help. I too think that Yoshi will turn out ok; saying that, coming from Japan, he is still something of a gamble. Since releasing Jaidi we haven't truly replaced that type of player; someone of that ilk and status is exactly what we need IMO. We have Steven Davis with PL experience in the middle; and I believe Ricky Lambert is enough of a talisman up front to negate the experience tag. That's all it takes IMO; one or two extra players with experience to knit the team together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 23 October, 2012 Share Posted 23 October, 2012 ; and I believe Ricky Lambert is enough of a talisman up front to negate the experience tag. . when he is on the pitch...ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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