Independent article sums it up perfectly

[Turkish]

Lots of people thought we were short -I did, I still do. Rather the majority opinion was wait and see.

 

What you fail to see is that perhaps there were good reasons why we didn't secure our targets. Until you show me evidence that we had opportunities to strengthen but failed to as a conscious policy, the jury's out. Guess you do multi-million pound transactions and convince people to join a project with uncertain success on a daily basis?

 

We didn't seem to have a problem attracting strikers. Oh no, we've got £10m worth on the bench most weeks and £12ms worth on the treatment table. It only seems to be defence that is the problem, just like it was last season. Funny that, what an amazing coincidence.

[dubai_phil]

Do I? For what? For daring to suggest that our defence was no where near good enough. For saying that our recruitment policy was shot and we needed premier league experience at the back to build a solid unit that is difficult to beat if we want to stay up and for daring to say weeks ago I didn't belize the manager was completely In control of team affairs. Oh no, this was wrong. Why do we need premier league experience? Our defence will be fine, Hooliveld has played in the champions league and Davis should be in the England squad we were told, Premier league experience means nothing, this league is average and we will finish midtable. Yes maybe I should apologies for daring to say this and for not fully buying into 'the Southampton way'

 

 

I'm having a lol at you mate. You didn't read either of my posts in reply to yours.

 

I said you were right. You said

Now its all coming home to roost people won't admit they were wrong.

and I just asked Who aren't admitting they were wrong.

 

I NEVER said YOU were wrong. Duh, the opposite.

 

Who (apart from Dalek) is ever always right on here

[dubai_phil]

We didn't seem to have a problem attracting strikers. Oh no, we've got £10m worth on the bench most weeks and £12ms worth on the treatment table. It only seems to be defence that is the problem, just like it was last season. Funny that, what an amazing coincidence.

 

Spurs Syndrome.

 

During the era they believed they were the best they signed every decent attacking MF & striker on the planet (back in the Gazza days) - no defenders

The Geordies in the KK days - the same.

 

SOMEBODY IS TO BLAME

 

And I don't think it is NA

[Turkish]

 

I'm having a lol at you mate. You didn't read either of my posts in reply to yours.

 

I said you were right. You said and I just asked Who aren't admitting they were wrong.

 

I NEVER said YOU were wrong. Duh, the opposite.

 

Who (apart from Dalek) is ever always right on here

 

Glad to have amused you!

 

There were plenty on here who were adamant we were easily good enough and didn't need premier league experience.

[Turkish]

Spurs Syndrome.

 

During the era they believed they were the best they signed every decent attacking MF & striker on the planet (back in the Gazza days) - no defenders

The Geordies in the KK days - the same.

 

SOMEBODY IS TO BLAME

 

And I don't think it is NA

 

Nor do I. It's the fault of the recruitment team and for that the buck stops with Reed and possibly Cortese.

[dubai_phil]

Glad to have amused you!

 

There were plenty on here who were adamant we were easily good enough and didn't need premier league experience.

 

Including Les Reed no doubt

[Turkish]

Including Les Reed no doubt

 

It would seem so.

[LGTL]

I'd love to know why we have seemingly put Reed in charge of recruitment? It's a decision that has rarely been questioned, but why he is specifically the man for that job exactly?

[shurlock]

We didn't seem to have a problem attracting strikers. Oh no, we've got £10m worth on the bench most weeks and £12ms worth on the treatment table. It only seems to be defence that is the problem, just like it was last season. Funny that, what an amazing coincidence.

 

We didn't get Sharp or Jrod at the first crack. We were turned down by Mackail-Smith. Hooper said no. Like Yoshida, we only managed to get an unproven jap in the winter window. We added no strikers in the 2011 summer window- in fact, we signed more defenders.

Cork's interview after signing was very revealing. We went in very early for him and had a bid accepted but he stalled, conceding that he wanted to maximise his chances of prem football -and didn't know if we offered the best prospects. He saw the light in the end but it was no guarantee -and he's hardly a world beater even by championship standards.

For all your ****-taking of people who think we're a big club, you implicitly assume that we can snap our fingers and get who we want. I don't see much difference between your position and those you mock.

At this moment in time, we're a pretty sh*tty proposition unless you're in the championship or good but unproven which, coincidentally, has become our niche.

If you believe the rumours, we were incredibly close to getting a quality defender on deadline day. It fell through on the other side. Perhaps we could have done more; perhaps Cortese's a c*ck and scuppered the deal, blithely thinking we could hold our own as things stood and outscore the opposition.

Or perhaps we were unlucky -and even our best efforts weren't enough. The jury's out.

Edited 22 October, 2012 by shurlock

[Saint_lambden]

"Individually some players are maybe getting found out a little bit"

 

Essentially, that's Adkins admitting that some players aren't good enough. Begs the question even more - why was the issue not sorted in the summer?

 

The transfer 'committee' have a lot to answer for.

[shurlock]

"Individually some players are maybe getting found out a little bit"

 

Essentially, that's Adkins admitting that some players aren't good enough. Begs the question even more - why was the issue not sorted in the summer?

 

The transfer 'committee' have a lot to answer for.

 

"we are Southampton, we'll sign who we want"

[Turkish]

We didn't get Sharp or Jrod at the first crack. We were turned down by Mackail-Smith. Hooper said no. Like Yoshida, we only managed to get an unproven jap in the winter window. We added no strikers in the 2011 summer window- in fact, we signed more defenders.

Cork's interview after signing was very revealing. We went in very early for him and had a bid accepted but he stalled, conceding that he wanted to maximise his chances of prem football -and didn't know if we offered the best prospects. He saw the light but it was no guarantee.

For all your ****-taking of people who think we're a big club, you implicitly assume that we can snap our fingers and get who we want. I don't see much difference in your position and those you mock.

At this moment in time, we're a pretty sh*tty proposition unless you're in the championship or good but unproven which have become our niche.

If you believe the rumours, we were incredibly close to getting a quality defender on deadline day. It fell through on the other side. Perhaps we could have done more; perhaps Cortese's a c*ck and scuppered the deal, blithely thinking we could hold our own as things stood and our score the opposition.

Or perhaps we were unlucky -and even our best efforts weren't enough. The jury's out.

 

I don't think that at all. What I find odd is we managed to sign £22m worth of attacking talent, 2 of which were central strikers, giving us 3 when in chosen formaiton we will only play one of them. Meanwhile we loaned out centre backs and sold left backs leaving us short of cover and quality in an area which was no where near good enough anyway. Of course I cannot prove we didn't try to sign defenders, but it's a stunning coincidence that in both summer transfer windows we've been desperate for a quality centre half or two and failed to address it until the very last minute. On both occasions seemingly missing our on a number of other targets, this despite the manager describing centre halves as his priority, a full 7 weeks before the window shut.

[Graffito]

A camel is a horse designed by a committee and now we've all got the hump.

[shurlock]

I don't think that at all. What I find odd is we managed to sign £22m worth of attacking talent, 2 of which were central strikers, giving us 3 when in chosen formaiton we will only play one of them. Meanwhile we loaned out centre backs and sold left backs leaving us short of cover and quality in an area which was no where near good enough anyway. Of course I cannot prove we didn't try to sign defenders, but it's a stunning coincidence that in both summer transfer windows we've been desperate for a quality centre half or two and failed to address it until the very last minute. On both occasions seemingly missing our on a number of other targets, this despite the manager describing centre halves as his priority, a full 7 weeks before the window shut.

 

We can go through the specifics all we like -did Cortese bottle the Gorkks transfer or sheer bad luck Fontaine failed a medical? Was Jos a hurried, last minute decision or as NA claims a top target, somebody we had gone in for early but weren't willing to pay Celtic's asking price of £2.5m (or whatever they paid for him), resulting in a loan deal.

Either way we don't know. We still brought in two more defenders than strikers last summer. That might suggest that Cortese has problems closing deals across the board, that is, it has nothing to do with favouring attackers over defenders -and the fact we signed Ramirez, an attacker, is a coincidence. Or maybe it's hard as a newly promoted team with a low profile manager to attract talent -Reading have had a balanced window by all accounts -just a shame the quality isn't there.

[John B]

We can go through the specifics all we like -did Cortese bottle the Gorkks transfer or sheer bad luck Fontaine failed a medical? Was Jos a hurried, last minute decision or as NA claims a top target, somebody we had gone in for early but weren't willing to pay Celtic's asking price of £2.5m (or whatever they paid for him), resulting in a loan deal.

Either way we don't know. We still brought in two more defenders than strikers last summer. That might suggest that Cortese has problems closing deals across the board, that is, it has nothing to do with favouring attackers over defenders -and the fact we signed Ramirez, an attacker, is a coincidence. Or maybe it's hard as a newly promoted team with a low profile manager to attract talent -Reading have had a balanced window by all accounts -just a shame the quality isn't there.

 

I dont think the facts in anyway prove your points

 

For a club with a five year plan our signings since Adkins has arrived have been pretty underwhelming with no or little of experienced top flight players joining which is what surely is required

[Red]

Although I don't quite agree with the sentiment of the headline, this is a spot on summary of what most of us have been saying for a while

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/allardyces-smart-summer-buys-put-the-extravagance-of-adkins-to-shame-8219937.html

 

Thing is NA knew he had to strengthen the defence – it is public knowledge that we tried to sign two defenders. Probably bids for more than that. So I do not subscribe to the view that he is naive or out of his depth. Just that we/he was unlucky those signings did not come off!

 

Bigger question is why we failed to secure the signings – was it NC being hard to deal with? Who knows?? Don’t think it was NA at fault – no proof, just a gut feeling on my part. Long hard season ahead for sure!

[CB Fry]

Was Jos a hurried, last minute decision or as NA claims a top target, somebody we had gone in for early but weren't willing to pay Celtic's asking price of £2.5m (or whatever they paid for him)

 

Did Nigel claim Jos was a top target? Honestly can't remember him saying that at the time. Either way it felt, and was, a last minute signing.

[shurlock]

I dont think the facts in anyway prove your points

 

For a club with a five year plan our signings since Adkins has arrived have been pretty underwhelming with no or little of experienced top flight players joining which is what surely is required

 

True but have we had a genuine chance of attracting that kind of quality? Jack Cork ffs was reluctant to put pen to paper because of our uncertain prospects. Until we successfully establish ourself in the prem, we'll struggle to be a talent magnet instead of a backwater flirting with relegation. That's where are right now -and our summer window reflects in part these constraints.

[eelpie]

We were and have been playing with injuries to 3 key players, Ramires, Lee, Cork, not an excuse, just a fact. And these players would almost certainly have made a difference to our current points total.

 

But I agree that we should have spent more wisely on better Premiership experienced defenders.

[Turkish]

We were and have been playing with injuries to 3 key players, Ramires, Lee, Cork, not an excuse, just a fact. And these players would almost certainly have made a difference to our current points total.

 

But I agree that we should have spent more wisely on better Premiership experienced defenders.

 

 

Behave yourself. Cork i'll grant you. Ramirez has only played about 3 times, yes he was expensive and a class act but is hardly a mainstay of our side, as for Lee, hes not played all season and only about 4 times since he's been here, how is he a key player?!

[tajjuk]

I dont think the facts in anyway prove your points

 

For a club with a five year plan our signings since Adkins has arrived have been pretty underwhelming with no or little of experienced top flight players joining which is what surely is required

 

Can I ask who we should have signed?

 

"experienced top flight players" Wouldn't said players already be:

 

A. Playing for other premiership clubs and unwilling to move to a newly promoted team even if their club was willing to sell (unlikely)

 

or

 

B. Outside the premiership and therefore an unknown quantity, I suppose their are players playing for Spanish. Italian, German, Dutch, French clubs of a certain level in their respective 'top flight' that might want to come to us. However there is no guarantee they would do any better, for example a Centre back from mid table Serie A club is used to a lot slower pace of play and a lot less physicality.

 

or

 

C. Got relegated with a premiership club and is now playing championship football (the Scott Danns/Curtis Davies of this world) that are probably not any better than what we have as there is a reason their team got relegated with them in it.

 

or

 

D. Get players from premiership teams who have fallen out of favour, a good option of getting quality players for a lesser club and for lower prices however concern over why they have fallen out of favour - ability faded, injury issues, attitude etc.

 

or

 

E. Buy a good championship defender who has performed well for his championship club over several years and hope he will be able to make the step up.

 

 

 

As far as I can tell we tried or have signed players from all categories if you go by rumours:-

 

A. We were linked with the likes of Huth and Shawcross.

 

B.Yoshida signed, we tried to sign Buttner, we were linked with Boilsen form Ajax, that Douglas from twente and a centre back from Barcelona.

 

C. Scott Dann and Curtis both linked.

 

D. Dawson being linked again, upson?

 

E. We signed Clyne, linked with Rhys Williams.

 

I think essentially the players just weren't really there and the ones we were linked with or tired to sign the deals couldn't be agreed. We don't know the reasons, but to suggest there was some sort of policy at the club that ignores signing defenders is plain silly.

[eelpie]

Behave yourself. Cork i'll grant you. Ramirez has only played about 3 times, yes he was expensive and a class act but is hardly a mainstay of our side, as for Lee, hes not played all season and only about 4 times since he's been here, how is he a key player?!

 

The article was about player purchasing policies. As someone else here pointed out, it ignored the fact that West Ham did not need to spend as much as Saints since they had kept most of their squad when they went down. Fat Sam did however spend more than us last year. Saints of course arrived and finished in the Championship with mainly a League 1 team. So the spending comparison is a narrow view of events, as is yours. It is quite pertinent to point out that Saints have had to field players throughout this season that they would not have had to do if all our best playing staff had been available. Lee has unfortunately had little playing time and last season at that, but probably only you have failed to see that he is top International and Premiership class that is sorely missed. At least you admit that Cork (who also has barely played) is missed in midfield. As for Ramirez, you clearly are blind to his top class skills. It is not about the hours that these players have been on the pitch. It is about the improvement to our play that they can add to the team's performances. Yes, our team has been missing key players from our playing staff for many matches.

[tajjuk]

The article was about player purchasing policies. As someone else here pointed out, it ignored the fact that West Ham did not need to spend as much as Saints since they had kept most of their squad when they went down. Fat Sam did however spend more than us last year. Saints of course arrived and finished in the Championship with mainly a League 1 team. So the spending comparison is a narrow view of events, as is yours. It is quite pertinent to point out that Saints have had to field players throughout this season that they would not have had to do if all our best playing staff had been available. Lee has unfortunately had little playing time and last season at that, but probably only you have failed to see that he is top International and Premiership class that is sorely missed. At least you admit that Cork (who also has barely played) is missed in midfield. As for Ramirez, you clearly are blind to his top class skills. It is not about the hours that these players have been on the pitch. It is about the improvement to our play that they can add to the team's performances. Yes, our team has been missing key players from our playing staff for many matches.

 

You can add in that Clyne has been injured, I think Fox has been injured, Mayuka has been carrying a knock, Boruc wasn't and still isn't match fit. Yoshida has had to play out of position. Even Puncheon has been injured.

 

I don't think we have seen a team containing Mayuka, Ramirez, Clyne, Yoshida, and Boruc yet, especially a match fit one.