Time for the BBC to lose its charter

[alpine_saint]

Its not impartial.

Its not representative.

Its not even working in the nations interest.

 

Its just a sancturary for ex-Guardianista and assorted other NUJ Trotskyites who think they know what is right and best for all us stupid plebs, working to their own self-important agendas.

 

What a tragic state a once-world-respected broadcaster has descended to.

 

Time to put it out of its misery.

[Thedelldays]

I hate having to pay TV tax

Now they won't be showing any live football until the next World Cup. I hardly ever watch it

 

As for 5live... They now have live NFL commentary

 

Don't get me started on Radio 1. Talk about dumbing down

[hypochondriac]

Its not impartial.

Its not representative.

Its not even working in the nations interest.

 

Its just a sancturary for ex-Guardianista and assorted other NUJ Trotskyites who think they know what is right and best for all us stupid plebs, working to their own self-important agendas.

 

What a tragic state a once-world-respected broadcaster has descended to.

 

Time to put it out of its misery.

 

Why do you care? You don't even live here.

[pap]

Hmm, give up a cherished institution that has united the nation during innumerable times of trouble, because people within it have made bad decisions during the last 80 years?

 

I'll go one further than hypo, Alps. You don't even get a say.

[Ken Tone]

A cherished insttution that is the envy of most civilised countries....except that little part of the universe inhabited by Alpine. Of course it is not perfect, in fact it is flawed, but nonetheless it is a damn sight better than anything else out there.

[buctootim]

The BBC is trying to do too much. At one time the licence fee covered two channels and four radio stations. Now 30 odd radio stations, Iplayer, numerous tv channels massive website, 24 hour news etc. They are trying to do much on too little and the quality is not there

 

IMO they should focus on public interest broadcasting - news, documentaries, natural world, 'how stuff works' etc and and leave the commercial stuff to the commercial stations. They should also act as an arm of UK PLC - broadcasting the UK perspective and British culture to the rest of the world - so things like Iplayer should be free to access from abroad and the site should be advert free.

[Ohio Saint]

Once you let go of something like the BBC it's gone forever. It has it's faults, but is beyond compare with anything else out there.

[PhilippineSaint]

Once you let go of something like the BBC it's gone forever. It has it's faults, but is beyond compare with anything else out there.

 

Not forgetting that it is not only the licence payer that pays for it all.

 

Money made from programmes sold overseas also go back into the pot, these by the way have advertising on to make money as per normal.

 

Really all your licence fees pay for is an advert free BBC in UK and other places in europe that can pick it up without going through a decoder.

[dronskisaint]

By a long way the best we have, as always it's good to take an inward look when mistakes come to light but your reaction is hysterical particularly given the access to it that I imagine that you have in Austria.

[PhilippineSaint]

By a long way the best we have, as always it's good to take an inward look when mistakes come to light but your reaction is hysterical particularly given the access to it that I imagine that you have in Austria.

 

Those of us abroad have nearly as much access as you in the UK its all on the interweb thingy if you know how to get round the server police

[alpine_saint]

Those of us abroad have nearly as much access as you in the UK its all on the interweb thingy if you know how to get round the server police

 

Yep.

 

I also view the BBC as a long-cherised institution, thats why I find its fall from grace so upsetting, but its so complacent and arrogant that its doing NOTHING to turn the clock back and get its house in order.

 

I posted a topic that is worthy of discussion, and naturally started it with my own opinion. I dont understand the need for personal abuse.

 

Do any of you REALLY think the BBC will sort its sh*t out ? The political will isnt there inside it to do so.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Typical hysterical rubbish.

 

Having spent many years living and working abroad (Germany, US, Canada, and New Zealand) I can honestly say that the BBC is beyond compare. The licence fee is unbelievably good value in comparison to the cost of Sky/Virgin.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

I hate having to pay TV tax

Now they won't be showing any live football until the next World Cup. I hardly ever watch it

 

As for 5live... They now have live NFL commentary

 

Don't get me started on Radio 1. Talk about dumbing down

 

Don't pay the fee then and just use the internet and radio.

 

If you don't like Radio 1 it is because you're too old. Since Radio 1 began there have been 30 something farts moaning about how bad it is and yet it is tremendously popular with teenagers and the early 20s - it's target audience.

[pap]

Yep.

 

I also view the BBC as a long-cherised institution, thats why I find its fall from grace so upsetting, but its so complacent and arrogant that its doing NOTHING to turn the clock back and get its house in order.

 

I posted a topic that is worthy of discussion, and naturally started it with my own opinion. I dont understand the need for personal abuse.

 

Do any of you REALLY think the BBC will sort its sh*t out ? The political will isnt there inside it to do so.

 

If the BBC is lacking any political will, you can blame the politicians. Blair and pals came down like a ton of bricks on it after it made the mistake of telling the truth about the case for the Iraq war being sexed up.

 

Cameron and pals put Jeremy Hunt in charge of the BSkyB bid, presumably with a view to getting it rubber-stamped. Most of the anti-BBC rhetoric comes from the Murdoch crowd.

[alpine_saint]

If the BBC is lacking any political will, you can blame the politicians. Blair and pals came down like a ton of bricks on it after it made the mistake of telling the truth about the case for the Iraq war being sexed up.

 

Cameron and pals put Jeremy Hunt in charge of the BSkyB bid, presumably with a view to getting it rubber-stamped. Most of the anti-BBC rhetoric comes from the Murdoch crowd.

 

I have no Murdoch affilliation, but even I can see that apart from in a few specialised areas they deliver crap value for money nowadays.

[pap]

I have no Murdoch affilliation, but even I can see that apart from in a few specialised areas they deliver crap value for money nowadays.

 

I pay my licence fee every month and despite the fact that I only use a fraction of their services, I don't feel short-changed.

 

Irrespective of what the BBC produces itself, the existence of the Beeb's universal advert-free channels makes all other media in this country better. It prevents advertising from being as prevalent as it is elsewhere in the world, either in length and frequency of ads, or editorial input over the content.

 

Contrast our TV landscape with the f**king dreadful end-point of total commercialisation, and the Beeb looks like a pretty sweet deal.

[saintbletch]

Its not impartial.

Its not representative.

Its not even working in the nations interest.

 

Its just a sancturary for ex-Guardianista and assorted other NUJ Trotskyites who think they know what is right and best for all us stupid plebs, working to their own self-important agendas.

 

What a tragic state a once-world-respected broadcaster has descended to.

 

Time to put it out of its misery.

 

There's only one part of this where I disagree with you completely, and that's all of the words you chose to use.

 

I really couldn't disagree with you more alpine_saint.

 

But I will acknowledge that I'm such a fan of the BBC that I'd struggle to see too much bad in it.

 

Perhaps you'd acknowledge that you're filled with so much resentment toward the BBC, that you'd struggle to see the good in it?

 

Perhaps you already have.

 

Personally, I'd pay the licence fee for bbc.co.uk, Radio 5, Radio 4 and its podcasts alone.

 

I never get my news from just one source, although I do tend to lean on the BBC in a tie-break.

 

As with all bureaucracies they'll be made to look outdated and self-serving from time to time. But as long as politicians, other media outlets and the BBC itself continue to pay it close scrutiny, then it will be continually be made relevant.

[Torres]

Do any of you REALLY think the BBC will sort its sh*t out ? The political will isnt there inside it to do so.

 

And you know this because you have intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the organisation, yes?

[pap]

There's only one part of this where I disagree with you completely, and that's all of the words you chose to use.

 

I really couldn't disagree with you more alpine_saint.

 

But I will acknowledge that I'm such a fan of the BBC that I'd struggle to see too much bad in it.

 

Perhaps you'd acknowledge that you're filled with so much resentment toward the BBC, that you'd struggle to see the good in it?

 

Perhaps you already have.

 

Personally, I'd pay the licence fee for bbc.co.uk, Radio 5, Radio 4 and its podcasts alone.

 

I never get my news from just one source, although I do tend to lean on the BBC in a tie-break.

 

As with all bureaucracies they'll be made to look outdated and self-serving from time to time. But as long as politicians, other media outlets and the BBC itself continue to pay it close scrutiny, then it will be continually be made relevant.

 

Very nice defence of the BBC. It isn't perfect, but I feel it is very much part of the national character. One of the first things I miss when abroad, so much so that many US hotel rooms have had Radio4 streamed into their innards via the medium of my laptop.

 

Alps, without wanting to cast aspersions on your fine character, I do get the impression from your posts that you have a healthy disdain for many British institutions, unjustifiably so in some cases, including this one.

 

Honest question(s). Do you think part of that is your brain doing a number on you because you no longer live here? Is there some part of you that perhaps resents being where you are? I know you've said you moved back here and that didn't work out. Is it remotely possible that many of your opinions are formed by your failure to re-integrate into British society?

Edited 22 October, 2012 by pap

[alpine_saint]

There's only one part of this where I disagree with you completely, and that's all of the words you chose to use.

 

I really couldn't disagree with you more alpine_saint.

 

But I will acknowledge that I'm such a fan of the BBC that I'd struggle to see too much bad in it.

 

Perhaps you'd acknowledge that you're filled with so much resentment toward the BBC, that you'd struggle to see the good in it?

 

Perhaps you already have.

 

Personally, I'd pay the licence fee for bbc.co.uk, Radio 5, Radio 4 and its podcasts alone.

 

I never get my news from just one source, although I do tend to lean on the BBC in a tie-break.

 

As with all bureaucracies they'll be made to look outdated and self-serving from time to time. But as long as politicians, other media outlets and the BBC itself continue to pay it close scrutiny, then it will be continually be made relevant.

 

I am trying to figure out exactly what this source of resentment you accuse me of harbouring could possibly be.

 

I am a Brit, and was brought up with the BBC in fore-ground and back-ground, and find it hard to envisage a world without it. Without a doubt, for a lot of the period since WW2 they have been the worlds best broadcaster and as a Brit I am immensely proud of the quality and reputation it brought to broadcasting.

 

But this is 2012, and the BBC is suffering from the same dogma, self-servedness and social decay that the rest of the nation is suffering, when it should actually be a power for helping stop that decay. Is the World Service still running ? Is it still the voice for decent journalism and broadcasting around the world ? I dont think so. And as someone slightly to the right of the political spectrum, I deeply resent the socialist dogma that dominates its every decision making process nowadays.

 

Hey, ho, I can see at least in this forum their is no force for change, and I assume that this majority view is reflected in British society in general. Just demonstrates the decline in standards in the UK even better to me, not surprised that so many who live there cannot see it.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Yes the World Service is stil running.

 

Was that a rhetorical question?

 

Are you an active listener? If not how can cast a valid opinion?

[alpine_saint]

Very nice defence of the BBC. It isn't perfect, but I feel it is very much part of the national character. One of the first things I miss when abroad, so much so that many US hotel rooms have had Radio4 streamed into their innards via the medium of my laptop.

 

Alps, without wanting to cast aspersions on your fine character, I do get the impression from your posts that you have a healthy disdain for many British institutions, unjustifiably so in some cases, including this one.

 

Honest question(s). Do you think part of that is your brain doing a number on you because you no longer live here? Is there some part of you that perhaps resents being where you are? I know you've said you moved back here and that didn't work out. Is it remotely possible that many of your opinions are formed by your failure to re-integrate into British society?

 

Its a fair question and I ask myself it often. I dont think that it is the case. After 2 weeks back in Southampton, I've had enough. As for my "failure to re-integrate" is it beyond your comprehension to accept that having lived abroad, I simply looked at the UK in a different way when I was back, found myself comparing it to Austria, and was fairly saddened/appalled by some of the things I saw and decided that wasnt for my family ?

 

I have a healthy disdain for certain UK institutions, yes I can concede that, but only because from my viewpoint they are shadows of what they used to be. Britain is broken, a deeply divided class-driven society, with hideous social depravation and obscene wealth, and rapidly degrading morality, spirituality and sense of right from wrong. I will never, never deny my ancestry, I am a Brit till I die, but modern Britain is a f**king cesspit. And NOTHING mirrors that better for me than the BBC.

Edited 22 October, 2012 by alpine_saint

[alpine_saint]

Yes the World Service is stil running.

 

Was that a rhetorical question?

 

Are you an active listener? If not how can cast a valid opinion?

 

so many of it foreign language programmes have been cut, I wasnt certain, to be honest.

 

I didnt comment on its quality, I commented on its existence. Ergo, I am obviously not a listener...

[pap]

Its a fair question and I ask myself it often. I dont think that it is the case. As for my "failure to re-integrate" is it beyond your comprehension to accept that having lived abroad, I simply looked at the UK in a different way when I was back, found myself comparing it to Austria, and was fairly saddened/appalled by some of the things I saw and decided that wasnt for my family ?

 

I have a healthy disdain for certain UK institutions, yes I can concede that, but only because from my viewpoint they are shadows of what they used to be. Britain is broken, a deeply divided class-driven society, with hideous social depravation and obscene wealth, and rapidly degrading morality, spirituality and sense of right from wrong. I will never, never deny my ancestry, I am a Brit till I die, but modern Britain is a f**king cesspit.

 

You'll probably get more sympathy from me than you would from most on the issue of a disappointing return home. "Failure to re-integrate" may have been a harsh choice of words, but that's essentially what happened. That's not a judgment on you, btw. I think most people who have had their horizons significantly broadened have difficulty returning to what can be a very narrow set of views. I get that completely; before you left you fit snugly into the jigsaw puzzle of British life. On your return, not only had you changed, but so had the rest of the puzzle.

 

No shame in that. I think it happens to all of us who depart the country for a spell. I'm also sure that from your perspective, things probably did look a bit worse than they were before. That all said, I do think that the fundamental issue here is your failure to adapt and the way you dealt with it.

 

If you were on here saying "yup, tried it out, couldn't get back into it" that's one thing. However, it's more along the lines of "everything is sh!t".

 

Now, if you are as much as a man of principle as your post would suggest, and the attributes you ascribe to the UK are accurate, I do have to wonder why you chose to move back to Austria and snipe from afar, instead of say, staying in Blighty and working to bring about the sort of positive change that you believe we're missing.

[alpine_saint]

You'll probably get more sympathy from me than you would from most on the issue of a disappointing return home. "Failure to re-integrate" may have been a harsh choice of words, but that's essentially what happened. That's not a judgment on you, btw. I think most people who have had their horizons significantly broadened have difficulty returning to what can be a very narrow set of views. I get that completely; before you left you fit snugly into the jigsaw puzzle of British life. On your return, not only had you changed, but so had the rest of the puzzle.

 

No shame in that. I think it happens to all of us who depart the country for a spell. I'm also sure that from your perspective, things probably did look a bit worse than they were before. That all said, I do think that the fundamental issue here is your failure to adapt and the way you dealt with it.

 

If you were on here saying "yup, tried it out, couldn't get back into it" that's one thing. However, it's more along the lines of "everything is sh!t".

 

Now, if you are as much as a man of principle as your post would suggest, and the attributes you ascribe to the UK are accurate, I do have to wonder why you chose to move back to Austria and snipe from afar, instead of say, staying in Blighty and working to bring about the sort of positive change that you believe we're missing.

 

Because I have my hands full with 4 kids, a bolshy wife, putting a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs and food on the table. Your concept of not adapting, "couldnt get back into it" - why should I have lowered my standards and those of my family ?

 

Its not sniping - its a poorly concealed sense of frustration. Even my wife, who is Austrian, would prefer to live in England in terms of social contact, things to do, basic frendliness of the people, open-mindedness, etc., but we want our kids educated, cared for properly if they become ill and above all, safe.

[saintbletch]

Its a fair question and I ask myself it often. I dont think that it is the case. After 2 weeks back in Southampton, I've had enough. As for my "failure to re-integrate" is it beyond your comprehension to accept that having lived abroad, I simply looked at the UK in a different way when I was back, found myself comparing it to Austria, and was fairly saddened/appalled by some of the things I saw and decided that wasnt for my family ?

 

I have a healthy disdain for certain UK institutions, yes I can concede that, but only because from my viewpoint they are shadows of what they used to be. Britain is broken, a deeply divided class-driven society, with hideous social depravation and obscene wealth, and rapidly degrading morality, spirituality and sense of right from wrong. I will never, never deny my ancestry, I am a Brit till I die, but modern Britain is a f**king cesspit. And NOTHING mirrors that better for me than the BBC.

 

..and all Austrians molest their children in cellars.

 

It's easy but not very edifying to take a 30,000ft view.

 

Unless you live on the ground and are invested in the nation's future you can miss subtleties and countless shades of grey. You also miss the instant feedback mechanism provided by a few beers down the pub with your Britain-based mates and them telling you that you're a tw*t for holding such and such a view.

 

I wonder if on this and other threads you're not subliminally repeating to yourself "I made the right choice moving away. I made the right choice moving away..."

 

If I were more nationalistic myself, I might take real exception to someone calling my country a f**king cesspit.

 

I am trying to figure out exactly what this source of resentment you accuse me of harbouring could possibly be.

 

I am a Brit, and was brought up with the BBC in fore-ground and back-ground, and find it hard to envisage a world without it. Without a doubt, for a lot of the period since WW2 they have been the worlds best broadcaster and as a Brit I am immensely proud of the quality and reputation it brought to broadcasting.

 

But this is 2012, and the BBC is suffering from the same dogma, self-servedness and social decay that the rest of the nation is suffering, when it should actually be a power for helping stop that decay. Is the World Service still running ? Is it still the voice for decent journalism and broadcasting around the world ? I dont think so. And as someone slightly to the right of the political spectrum, I deeply resent the socialist dogma that dominates its every decision making process nowadays.

 

Hey, ho, I can see at least in this forum their is no force for change, and I assume that this majority view is reflected in British society in general. Just demonstrates the decline in standards in the UK even better to me, not surprised that so many who live there cannot see it.

 

I think your statement in the quote above this one might contain a little evidence for the resentment I thought I detected in you toward the BBC.

 

I've seen senior politicians calling policemen plebs, I've seen our politicians lie and fraudulently exploit their expenses and I've seen prime ministers lie to us over illegal wars.

 

None of this made me call for the end of parliamentary democracy. Well not seriously anyway. I instead did what I could to put pressure on the system.

 

The same will happen with the BBC over its current mismanagement. We've got one BBC programme in the shape of Panorama investigating another BBC programme in the shape of Newsnight, resulting in the removal of the Newsnight editor from his position.

 

That's impressive in my book - but not enough. I'm sure both enquiries will call for changes and I'm sure they'll be accepted in full with heads rolling. I also wonder if following that, the issue of its self-regulation will be examined and tested too. This is the way behemoth agencies are called to account, change and stay relevant.

 

I must also say I was impressed with the way that Sky News handled the whole NotW and Murdoch business. It might be churlish to suggest that they had little choice as they were trying to retain a licence to broadcast, but they still reported it very well IMO.

[alpine_saint]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, I'm afraid.

 

I am not convinced by the BBC anymore, but I can see that when under any sort of threat, those still in the UK will probably close ranks to defend its sanctity. A pity that its more to do with its history than its present nature.

 

Also a pity that so many of those who work for it abuse that reverence.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

so many of it foreign language programmes have been cut, I wasnt certain, to be honest.

 

I didnt comment on its quality, I commented on its existence. Ergo, I am obviously not a listener...

 

but you said:

Is it still the voice for decent journalism and broadcasting around the world ? I dont think so.

 

So you don't listen but are able to form an opinion anyway?

[pap]

Because I have my hands full with 4 kids, a bolshy wife, putting a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs and food on the table. Your concept of not adapting, "couldnt get back into it" - why should I have lowered my standards and those of my family ?

 

Its not sniping - its a poorly concealed sense of frustration. Even my wife, who is Austrian, would prefer to live in England in terms of social contact, things to do, basic frendliness of the people, open-mindedness, etc., but we want our kids educated, cared for properly if they become ill and above all, safe.

 

You might be able to play the wife and kids card if you didn't have 21K posts, my friend. That in itself suggests that you have plenty of free time. It comes down to this; you put the perceived needs of your family ahead of your principles. I say perceived because I don't recognise the Britain you paint. It must look different from a distance.

 

Sorry Alps; I don't mind people moaning - but moaning without a solution is wearying enough. Moaning without any effort to change things is even worse.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

I wonder if on this and other threads you're not subliminally repeating to yourself "I made the right choice moving away. I made the right choice moving away..."

 

 

I recognised this in my "uncle-in-law" when he visited the UK from Australia last year - the "Lady doth protest too much".

[alpine_saint]

You might be able to play the wife and kids card if you didn't have 21K posts, my friend. That in itself suggests that you have plenty of free time. It comes down to this; you put the perceived needs of your family ahead of your principles. I say perceived because I don't recognise the Britain you paint. It must look different from a distance.

 

Sorry Alps; I don't mind people moaning - but moaning without a solution is wearying enough. Moaning without any effort to change things is even worse.

 

What an utterly daft post. The needs of my family (how dare you use the word "perceived" - you saying you know what my family needs more then me ?) ARE my principles.

 

And how and when I make my 21K posts around my responsibilities is MY business.

 

Thanks for moving this onto character judgement and assasination. Typical of those who lean to the left.

[alpine_saint]

I recognised this in my "uncle-in-law" when he visited the UK from Australia last year - the "Lady doth protest too much".

 

Do you really think everyone who emigrates leaves behind their family, childhood and all they knew without a tinge of regret ? There are things I miss still in the UK, but overall after cold assessment, the place is so f*cked I am confident I made the right decision.

[The Cat]

Yes the World Service is stil running.

 

Sure is. I was listening this morning to a very interesting programme where factory workers in the US and China were questioning each other on working conditions and cultures. The other day I heard a programme about internet bullying where a presenter from London was conversing with a chap from Northern Ireland, a girl from Canada and taking calls on Skype from Taiwan and South Africa. You don't get that anywhere else.

 

As for the rest of the BBC, well I'm a huge fan despite the fact a lot of it isn't to my taste but the stuff that is includes broadcasting which is unparalleled throughout the world.

 

Maybe they do try to spread themselves too thinly but there's a lot of people with different tastes out there who pay the license fee and are entitled to be catered for.

[manji]

I Despise Saville and his creep cohorts of which there are many. But I wonder if the Murdoch Press glee in these revalations is just being used as an agenda to bash the BBC and the present bunch of Tories resent having a publicy funded TV station.

The same thing is happening in the States at the moment where Romney continually attacks PBS the superb publicy funded station over there.

Back in the early nineties I subscribed to a magazine called Scallywag which was like a Punk Private Eye and often they would publish stories about Saville and his Paedo ring which included well known mainly Tory Grandees and Politicians , Police and Businessmen even minor Royalty.

It was eventually shut down after various litigation threats. A lot of the stories in the magazine were whats coming to light now.

My worry is a lot of unpleasant TV personalities are going to get dragged in while People in various high places are going to avoid being implicated and all the focus is going to be on the BBC.

[alpine_saint]

I Despise Saville and his creep cohorts of which there are many. But I wonder if the Murdoch Press glee in these revalations is just being used as an agenda to bash the BBC and the present bunch of Tories resent having a publicy funded TV station.

The same thing is happening in the States at the moment where Romney continually attacks PBS the superb publicy funded station over there.

Back in the early nineties I subscribed to a magazine called Scallywag which was like a Punk Private Eye and often they would publish stories about Saville and his Paedo ring which included well known mainly Tory Grandees and Politicians , Police and Businessmen even minor Royalty.

It was eventually shut down after various litigation threats. A lot of the stories in the magazine were whats coming to light now.

My worry is a lot of unpleasant TV personalities are going to get dragged in while People in various high places are going to avoid being implicated and all the focus is going to be on the BBC.

 

I cannot talk about the various agendas.

 

My criticisms are specific about quality and variety of programming, the way complaints are dealt with and the principles behind the Current Affairs/News departments. About the only part of the BBC (that I have any contact with) earning its crust are the Wildlife/Nature departments which to me are still the best in the world by a long, long, LONG way. Almost every wildlife programme shown here in the German speaking world is an overdubbed BBC production.

[pap]

What an utterly daft post. The needs of my family (how dare you use the word "perceived" - you saying you know what my family needs more then me ?) ARE my principles.

 

And how and when I make my 21K posts around my responsibilities is MY business.

 

Thanks for moving this onto character judgement and assasination. Typical of those who lean to the left.

 

Dare to use the word "perceived"? I think it'd be irresponsible of me NOT to use it. Your perception right now is that a long-cherished national institution should lose its charter because some people within it tried to cover their arses.

 

Same thing with your family, really. I don't know what is best for them, but you made a decision based on your perceptions, not hard facts. Judging from many of your 21K posts, I think it's fair to say that your perception of the UK is a lot darker than your average view. So yep, I dare to use the word "perceived", and with some justification. The way you go on you'd think the UK was f**king Mordor. In short, I find your sense of perspective to be highly unreliable.

 

As for the volume of your posts, I was simply pointing out the time could have been spent making a positive difference instead of espousing a negative view.

[saint1977]

I Despise Saville and his creep cohorts of which there are many. But I wonder if the Murdoch Press glee in these revalations is just being used as an agenda to bash the BBC and the present bunch of Tories resent having a publicy funded TV station.

The same thing is happening in the States at the moment where Romney continually attacks PBS the superb publicy funded station over there.

Back in the early nineties I subscribed to a magazine called Scallywag which was like a Punk Private Eye and often they would publish stories about Saville and his Paedo ring which included well known mainly Tory Grandees and Politicians , Police and Businessmen even minor Royalty.

It was eventually shut down after various litigation threats. A lot of the stories in the magazine were whats coming to light now.

My worry is a lot of unpleasant TV personalities are going to get dragged in while People in various high places are going to avoid being implicated and all the focus is going to be on the BBC.

 

Too right Manji, imagine if Romney and the Republicans got their way, all TV would be like Fox News e.g. a constant stream of far right propaganda. The BBC has a world-reknowned and deserved reputation for quality, the people that want to end that are ideological extremists. After all, who would you rather trust with your news - John Simpson or Kay Burley? In fact, I think I trust George more than Kay. Also, the old line about impartiality comes out. In my lifetime, the BBC has had far more dust-ups with Labour than it has ever had with the Tories - Iraq and 'sexing up' anyone? Governments expect the BBC to help them out but that isn't it's role, it's responsibility is to the viewer. Would ITV or others run detailed programmes like Watchdog on a long-term that protect consumer rights without fear of upsetting sponsors?

 

Also, the only reason the tabloids are opening fire on the BBC is that they were brown-nosing Savile even more than everyone else and they don't want their pathetic journalism exposed. Yes, the BBC did wrong and those who brushed it under the carpet need prosecuting with haste but this ideological nonsense from the far right needs curbing.

[pap]

Too right Manji, imagine if Romney and the Republicans got their way, all TV would be like Fox News e.g. a constant stream of far right propaganda. The BBC has a world-reknowned and deserved reputation for quality, the people that want to end that are ideological extremists. After all, who would you rather trust with your news - John Simpson or Kay Burley? In fact, I think I trust George more than Kay. Also, the old line about impartiality comes out. In my lifetime, the BBC has had far more dust-ups with Labour than it has ever had with the Tories - Iraq and 'sexing up' anyone? Governments expect the BBC to help them out but that isn't it's role, it's responsibility is to the viewer. Would ITV or others run detailed programmes like Watchdog on a long-term that protect consumer rights without fear of upsetting sponsors?

 

Also, the only reason the tabloids are opening fire on the BBC is that they were brown-nosing Savile even more than everyone else and they don't want their pathetic journalism exposed. Yes, the BBC did wrong and those who brushed it under the carpet need prosecuting with haste but this ideological nonsense from the far right needs curbing.

 

Superb contribution.

[alpine_saint]

Also, the old line about impartiality comes out. In my lifetime, the BBC has had far more dust-ups with Labour than it has ever had with the Tories - Iraq and 'sexing up' anyone?

 

Who the f**k is talking about pathetic trivial bickering party politics ?

 

The BBCs bias is FAR more grevious - its biased towards a certain political ideaology. Socialism, Trotskyism, Stalinism, call it what fits you best. Hence it can effortlessly bash the Tories but still be consistent by deliberately undermining the case of the Iraq war started by Labour in the eyes of the public.

 

I think this will be my last post on this subject. I think people still in the UK are incapable of waking up to the realities of how far the country has fallen, and the BBC, with all its history and historical reputation represents a rose-tinted link to a nation long gone, that is now itself, with revelations of fixing programmes, weak cheap programming, covering up for paedos and gross political bias starting to catch up with the times in which people in the UK live.

 

Heh, I do like pap's Mordor analogy though

[iansums]

Olympics 2012 anyone? Worth four years of the license fee alone IMO. No adverts, far superior qualtiy of programming, the BBC works for me. Ok, so its full of Socialists, who gives a feck and I'm a Tory boy. Granted

, East Enders is a pile of sh*t and makes you feel like having a shower after you've watched it (not that I do), but I need a lot of showers anyway seeing as I live in a cess-pit.

 

Now can anyone find that old Not the Nine O'clock Points of View sketch.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Too right Manji, imagine if Romney and the Republicans got their way, all TV would be like Fox News e.g. a constant stream of far right propaganda. The BBC has a world-reknowned and deserved reputation for quality, the people that want to end that are ideological extremists. After all, who would you rather trust with your news - John Simpson or Kay Burley? In fact, I think I trust George more than Kay. Also, the old line about impartiality comes out. In my lifetime, the BBC has had far more dust-ups with Labour than it has ever had with the Tories - Iraq and 'sexing up' anyone? Governments expect the BBC to help them out but that isn't it's role, it's responsibility is to the viewer. Would ITV or others run detailed programmes like Watchdog on a long-term that protect consumer rights without fear of upsetting sponsors?

 

Also, the only reason the tabloids are opening fire on the BBC is that they were brown-nosing Savile even more than everyone else and they don't want their pathetic journalism exposed. Yes, the BBC did wrong and those who brushed it under the carpet need prosecuting with haste but this ideological nonsense from the far right needs curbing.

 

If the BBC is so good, so impartialy, and so "much loved" then it would have no problem raising the licence fee from subscriptions would it? All you people that love the BBC could pay your fees and watch it as much as you want. I could make a decision whether I wanted to watch it and pay for the pleasure without the threat of jail hanging over me.

 

I find it bizzare that in this day and age people are prepared to accept a TV Poll tax, not for watching the BBC, but for owning a TV. And that we are a nation that puts its "subjects" in jail for not paying the said poll tax.

 

I would say "ideological extremists" are people who impose their will on others, and put people in jail who dont conform. Not people who believe in choice and taxes that should reflect peoples ability to pay.

Edited 22 October, 2012 by Lord Duckhunter

[pap]

If the BBC is so good, so impartialy, and so "much loved" then it would have no problem raising the licence fee from subscriptions would it? All you people that love the BBC could pay your fees and watch it as much as you want. I could make a decision whether I wanted to watch it and pay for the pleasure without the threat of jail hanging over me.

 

I find it bizzare that in this day and age people are prepared to accept a TV Poll tax, not for watching the BBC, but for owning a TV. And that we are a nation that puts its "subjects" in jail for not paying the said poll tax.

 

I would say "ideological extremists" are people who impose their will on others, and put people in jail who dont conform. Not people who believe in choice and taxes that should reflect peoples ability to pay.

 

Not sure how much thought you've given to this, Lord D.

 

Every taxpayer in this country pays for things that they do not agree with. Thanks to PAYE, most people don't have a choice in whether they pay it or not. As a small businessman, I could withhold on the basis of I don't like the way the money is spent.

 

If I decided to do that, would I get into less or more trouble than if I didn't buy a TV licence?

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

If the BBC is so good, so impartialy, and so "much loved" then it would have no problem raising the licence fee from subscriptions would it? All you people that love the BBC could pay your fees and watch it as much as you want. I could make a decision whether I wanted to watch it and pay for the pleasure without the threat of jail hanging over me.

 

I find it bizzare that in this day and age people are prepared to accept a TV Poll tax, not for watching the BBC, but for owning a TV. And that we are a nation that puts its "subjects" in jail for not paying the said poll tax.

 

I would say "ideological extremists" are people who impose their will on others, and put people in jail who dont conform. Not people who believe in choice and taxes that should reflect peoples ability to pay.

 

Its pretty obvious why we have the licence system rather than subscription. If 100% of the UK was on cable/satelite then you could make an argument for only charging those who wanted to pay to get BBC television. It would be interesting to see how many would happily pay £50-100 a month to Sky if it didn't include BBC?

 

Do you also find it bizarre that we accept a car poll-tax?

[Colinjb]

Olympics 2012 anyone? Worth four years of the license fee alone IMO. No adverts, far superior qualtiy of programming, the BBC works for me. Ok, so its full of Socialists, who gives a feck and I'm a Tory boy. Granted

, East Enders is a pile of sh*t and makes you feel like having a shower after you've watched it (not that I do), but I need a lot of showers anyway seeing as I live in a cess-pit.

 

Now can anyone find that old Not the Nine O'clock Points of View sketch.

 

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

The BBCs bias is FAR more grevious - its biased towards a certain political ideaology. Socialism, Trotskyism, Stalinism, call it what fits you best.

 

You've absolutely lost it.

[Ohio Saint]

Debating the BBC is fair enough, but Alpine's posts contain a great deal about other topics, and the manner he discusses them suggest to me that he has a lot more problems in his life than a broadcasting organization from outside of the country he lives in.

[iansums]

 

Thank you sir!

 

What a fine program that was.

[Dimond Geezer]

Its a fair question and I ask myself it often. I dont think that it is the case. After 2 weeks back in Southampton, I've had enough. As for my "failure to re-integrate" is it beyond your comprehension to accept that having lived abroad, I simply looked at the UK in a different way when I was back, found myself comparing it to Austria, and was fairly saddened/appalled by some of the things I saw and decided that wasnt for my family ?

 

I have a healthy disdain for certain UK institutions, yes I can concede that, but only because from my viewpoint they are shadows of what they used to be. Britain is broken, a deeply divided class-driven society, with hideous social depravation and obscene wealth, and rapidly degrading morality, spirituality and sense of right from wrong. I will never, never deny my ancestry, I am a Brit till I die, but modern Britain is a f**king cesspit. And NOTHING mirrors that better for me than the BBC.

 

Wow.

 

There are many things wrong with both the BBC & Britain, but to call them both "cess pits" is plainly ridiculous, there are many countries a lot worse off than our own, where you can't walk the streets in relative safety, or can't express views without the fear of a bullet in the back of the head, these places are cess-pits.

 

I will bet any money, that if life goes tits-up in sunny Austria, you'd be on the first plane back claiming your rights to use the NHS & have your kids educated for free, then complaing that you had to wait to see the Doc & there are more than 20 kids in the class. Sometimes Alps, you talk utter sh!te.

[badgerx16]

I find it bizzare that in this day and age people are prepared to accept a TV Poll tax, not for watching the BBC, but for owning a TV. And that we are a nation that puts its "subjects" in jail for not paying the said poll tax.

 

Tax evasion is a criminal offence. In the case of the TV licence the maximum punishment is a £1000 fine, however on average what is actually imposed tends to be less than £200.

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2117510/Thousands-TV-Licence-cheats-face-prosecution-week.html

Edited 22 October, 2012 by badgerx16

[Thedelldays]

Not sure how much thought you've given to this, Lord D.

 

Every taxpayer in this country pays for things that they do not agree with. Thanks to PAYE, most people don't have a choice in whether they pay it or not. As a small businessman, I could withhold on the basis of I don't like the way the money is spent.

 

If I decided to do that, would I get into less or more trouble than if I didn't buy a TV licence?

 

People pay for things generally that aid your life.

 

Police

Law

Medical

Collect your rubbish

 

Tv is entertainment...imagine being forces to pay for the sun newspaper every day