4-3-3 our Downfall or the way forward!!

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

With NA's rigidity of no compromise with this system,and no fall back formation in which seems he is either unwilling or unable to use. Do we think the lauded by the upper management "SOUTHAMPTON WAY" of 4-3-3 is still the future for us. Or do we go back the the tried and tested 4-4-2, to gain a foothold in the prem first. Then we could possibly attrack the right calibre of players for the "SOUTHAMPTON WAY".

[beatlesaint]

With NA's rigidity of no compromise with this system,and no fall back formation in which seems he is either unwilling or unable to use. Do we think the lauded by the upper management "SOUTHAMPTON WAY" of 4-3-3 is still the future for us. Or do we go back the the tried and tested 4-4-2, to gain a foothold in the prem first. Then we could possibly attrack the right calibre of players for the "SOUTHAMPTON WAY".

 

Personally I think giving 4-4-2 a go for a few weeks isn't going to hurt. Lets face it things wouldnt be any worse with the tried and tested formation. If things pick up then great, keep with 4-4-2 until we are, ahem, safe, then give the 4-3-3 another go.

 

But we haven't got the players with the discipline to play it at the moment either.

[Window Cleaner]

Personally I think giving 4-4-2 a go for a few weeks isn't going to hurt. Lets face it things wouldnt be any worse with the tried and tested formation. If things pick up then great, keep with 4-4-2 until we are, ahem, safe, then give the 4-3-3 another go.

 

But we haven't got the players with the discipline to play it at the moment either.

 

Changing the system won't make our defenders any better, 4-5-1 might plug the gaps a bit but until we get cork back we don't have the personnel to operate it. Our problem is poor players at the back so playing 2 at the front will change nothing. Yesterday we had a very offensive side out, it lasted 46 minutes and then it was only as good as it's weakest links. Until we get a left back

or a right back so that Clyne can play on the left tinkering will do nothing. The only way is all out defence and some 0-0 draws.

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

Changing the system won't make our defenders any better, 4-5-1 might plug the gaps a bit but until we get cork back we don't have the personnel to operate it. Our problem is poor players at the back so playing 2 at the front will change nothing. Yesterday we had a very offensive side out, it lasted 46 minutes and then it was only as good as it's weakest links. Until we get a left back

or a right back so that Clyne can play on the left tinkering will do nothing. The only way is all out defence and some 0-0 draws.

Yes WC that then makes it so frustrating, that we have no creditable back up in these positions!!

[lordswoodsaints]

Never been a fan of it would always go with 4-4-2 switching to 4-5-1 or even a 3-5-2....we haven't got the players for it and I don't expect we ever will

[The Kraken]

We played 4-4-2 against Fulham; it didn't stop Hooiveld knocking one in for them and then defelecting another. Formation is only a small part of our problems; a lack of decent enough players and bizarre selection choices are much more of a factor.

[Pilchards]

It's plain stupid to reveal that our system will continue to be 4-4-3.

Why not announce the team now so Spurs can plan to beat us just like everyone else is.

[The Kraken]

It's plain stupid to reveal that our system will continue to be 4-4-3.

Why not announce the team now so Spurs can plan to beat us just like everyone else is.

 

Well that would be nice.

[70's Mike]

It is not the 4-3-3 which is the problem but when, especially away from home it becomes 4-5-1 with none of the 5 supporting the defence because it is not in their nature.

most teams go from 4-3-3 to a 4-2-3-1 but we do not have 2 who can defend properly

[Pilchards]

Well that would be nice.

 

 

Might as well be with the **** we've had in goal

[aintforever]

I have nothing against 4-3-3 but the idea of having the system of play imposed on the manager (which is what some people are saying may be happening) is f*cked and will only end in relegation.

 

We essentially got promoted because of Lambert's goals, the team should be built around him. Any system which means he's sat on the bench and Guly starts is the wrong one for us.

[egg]

Could anyone suggesting 442 tell me how Gaston will be accomodated. You don't pay £12m for a player then play him out of position.

[The Kraken]

Could anyone suggesting 442 tell me how Gaston will be accomodated. You don't pay £12m for a player then play him out of position.

 

Whether its 442 or 433, then either our £12M man or our £7M man can't be properly accommodated. Which highlights the poor strategy of our summer transfer spending.

[Topcat]

With NA's rigidity of no compromise with this system,and no fall back formation in which seems he is either unwilling or unable to use. Do we think the lauded by the upper management "SOUTHAMPTON WAY" of 4-3-3 is still the future for us.

 

This 433 system is not due to NA not wanting to compromise, he is under instruction to play the 433 by Cortese as advised by Reed. Please stop blaming Adkins for this stupid approach to tactics.

[The Kraken]

This 433 system is not due to NA not wanting to compromise, he is under instruction to play the 433 by Cortese as advised by Reed. Please stop blaming Adkins for this stupid approach to tactics.

 

How does that explain us playing a 4-4-2 against Fulham?

[egg]

Whether its 442 or 433, then either our £12M man or our £7M man can't be properly accommodated. Which highlights the poor strategy of our summer transfer spending.

 

That's not the point. I agree our strategy was awful but the players we've bought have to be shoehorned in, I would imagine. If you're suggesting 442, where do you put Gaston?

[The Kraken]

That's not the point. I agree our strategy was awful but the players we've bought have to be shoehorned in, I would imagine. If you're suggesting 442, where do you put Gaston?

 

I'm not suggesting 4-4-2.

[Lighthouse]

I think we tried to chance too much this year and it's part of the problem. Getting promoted and bringing in new players is enough to cope with without experimenting with different formations at the same time. By all means we should evolve once we have a foundation in the Premier League but too many players look like they don't know what to do. JRod looks lost sometimes playing in a variety of unusual possitions. Morgan and Davis sometimes look good and other times play just goes straight through them and we get exposed.

 

I vote for giving 4-4-2 a go for a while.

 

Gazza

 

Clyne - Fonte - Jos - Yoshi

 

Puncheon - Morgan - Davis - Lallana

 

Lambert - Rod

 

 

Until Ramirez and Cork are fit at least. If nothing else it's difficult to break down which we are anything but at the moment.

[The Kraken]

If we're going to try 4-4-2 for a bit (we're obviously not, but anyway) then I'd suggest Mayuka instead of Rodriguez. Get Fox back as soon as possible and get Yoshida in the middle with Fonte; in the meantime I'd rather have either Been Reeves or even Ryan Dickson at LB rather than play centre backs there, it quite obviously doesn't work. At all.

 

If we're not going to try 4-4-2 (and according to the manager we're not) I'm completely at a loss to why we spent £10M on 2 strikers for the bench.

[Saint_John]

When people refer to 4-3-3 it soon becomes 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 when the 2 wide players drop back.

 

My thoughts on 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 ......

At the start of last season we played a very "flexible 4-4-2" against a number of teams that played a "fixed 4-4-2". This worked because it allowed our wide midfield players to come inside whenever they wanted to. (Adam and Guly played the system very well e.g. Guly making a run down the inside left channel (from right midfield) against Millwall to win the game etc.). When the opposition wide players tracked them our fullbacks used the space to overlap.

The system worked very well in the first half of last season.

 

However just before Xmas sides changed the way they played against us in that they changed to a 4-2-3-1 (4-3-3/4-5-1) system (or "4-2-diamond"), i.e. 2 anchors in midfield and a "diamond" up front (think blackpool with ince and phillips wide and dobie playing in a withdrawn role to support the front player or the 2 anchors in midfield).

This change BY the oppositon caused us a lot of problems: when our wide players came inside there was always a player picking him up; it also meant that the opposition wide players could use the space to make runs between the fullbacks and centrehalves. The first side to use that system as I remember was bristol with their right winger playing the system very well and causing us lots of problems.

 

I think Nigel could see it was causing us lots of problems and at first he tried to change our system to match the oppositions, i.e. after the bristol defeat we played 4-2-3-1 at donny, however Uncle Dave on the radio called it wrong in that he only see the "4-4-2" and TOLD EVERYONE that Morgan was playing as a second striker that day, whereas he was 1 of the 3 advanced midfield players. (imo Uncle Dave just does not understand any system that is not 4-4-2, he is an OLD DINOSAUR as far as tactics are concerned).

 

A number of sides tried playing this system against us in the second half of the season with mixed success, blackpool had the wide players to make it work but others did not and we were able to get enough points from our "flexible 4-4-2" system to go up.

 

Now if you look at PL teams most play some form of 4-2-3-1 (chelsea, spurs etc) or 4-4-1-1 (manure) etc. and they have players on their books who are as good if not better than blackpool or bristol players that caused us problems last season. I can not think of one team in the PL that plays a "fixed 4-4-2" system that we had such success against last year, perhaps qpr ?? Therefore staying with our system from last year was NOT going to work, we had to do something.

 

However there was one big problem, the players we have are not comfortable playing 4-2-3-1 : the 1 up front needs to be MOBILE and run the whole line, have a bit of pace to run in the gaps between the centrebacks and the fullbacks etc.(imo this is not one of Rickie strengths); the 3 attacking midfield players need to be able to make "lung busting runs" beyond the front player (Adam, Jason NEVER run beyond the front player, they play in the space behind the front player).

 

I am not sure what we should do. If we revert to 4-4-2, the oppositions will play 4-2-3-1 with players as good if not better than blackpool or bristol and we will struggle. However if we stay with 4-2-3-1 (4-3-3/4-5-1) some of the players MAY adapt with TIME but others will still look uncomfortable playing the system.

[kpturner]

When people ......

I guess we should be grateful you didn't start using colour, as well as random changes to bold text and larger font sizes!

[corky morris]

Adkins kept going on about playing different systems last year. The diamond, 4-4-2 etc. He said it was important to be flexible.

Now we play 4-3-3...............................no flexibility.

Egg asked a question about Ramirez & where to play him. On the right wing or the left wing or alongside Lambert or alongside Rodriguez. FFS he played out wide for Bologna.

We are losing playing the system we have. Conceding loads of goals. We may as well try something that worked last year as keep on with the same thing that aint working.

Our defence is poo. It has been for a while. Anyone could see it last season.

I dont know if Adkins has been told to play 4-3-3. I dont know who signed the players, buy any numpty could see we needed defenders.

With the players we have fit at the moment we should play 4-4-2.

Davis

Clyne-Fonte-Yoshi-Shaw

Puncheon-Morgan-Davis-Lallana

JayRod-Rickie

I would even be tempted to bring Hammond back because what he lacks in ability he makes up for in effort.

You can sense a huge negativity surrounding the team at the moment. In the same way you could sense the positivity last year. IMHO we need not have signed Mayuka, JayRod & Ramirez. Just one would have done, but spent the money on 2 centre half & a full back.

4-3-3 is not working..........................what is it people dont get????

[Gambol2K9]

I'd be inclined to play with three centre mids in the short term, just to give our shaky defence a bit more protection. Would rely on Cork being fit as this is another area we are a bit short on reinforcements.

 

We can't do much about the back four until January so need to look at some form of tactical change.

[There when Franny scored]

Much too simplistic to reduce the argument to whether we play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. We adapt our formation depending on who we're playing. We have very rarely played an outright 4-3-3 this season in any game as this excellent website suggests:

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/18