SNSUN Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 Keep him. For now. For the immediate future. No wins in the next three and I'll be altering my view. I really like Adkins, but he's proving so far that he's a fish out of water, specifically for not strengthening the defence sufficiently in the summer. It's a moot thread though, as only one man truly makes the decision to keep him or sack him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 I'm with Ottery and a few others on this thread. It's really quite naive for all the focus to be on Nigel because there's a "brains trust" at the heart of the playing side of the club and he's only one member of it - and possibly/probably not even the most influential member of it. He's certainly not a manager in the traditional sense. I don't think the formation or the starting line up or the substitutions are completely down to Nigel by any means. Or, for sure, the transfers. But I don't think we've been losing because our formation and starting line up have been wrong, or even because of dubious substitutions - although they haven't helped. The same goes for the zonal marking. We've been losing because of repetitive, bone-headed mistakes - lousy positioning, ball-watching and crap decision making on an individual level. THAT is what needs to be addressed but the "tough love" that some players need is not Nigel's forté; that, for me, is one of his biggest weaknesses. The longer we go on dropping points, the more the "brains trust" as a whole should come under pressure, not just Adkins. If we fire Nigel, I think we'll just be painting over rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 (edited) I'm not making excuses for our poor defence, it's something that might have been anticipated in the summer, but afterall that talk about the " group of death " fixtures we'd been dealt from Day 1...... ...it's important to note that 6 of our 8 league games have been against sides presently in the top 9 in the table, and they haven't got there just because they took 3 points off us. Listening to the interviews, I think Big Sam was more shell-shocked than Nigel after their dismal first half, and then we handed the game to Wham in the first two minutes after the break....... however, basking in the glory of 14 points in the League, he volunteered that he was a bit concerned because..... (his quote).......Arsenal have been the only top side we've played so far and in the coming games we have Man.City, Man Utd .....etc . I think some people have quickly forgotten that those games are behind us and were not the only side who are gonna get walloped by the top six....... Nigel has got an uphill task to get the defence tightened up..... .and Spurs will be no walk-over... but I'm sure well start picking up points when we begin to play other clubs nearer our end of the table. Edited 21 October, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 I'm not making excuses for our poor defence, it's something that might have been anticipated in the summer, but afterall that talk about the " group of death " fixtures we'd been dealt from Day 1...... ...it's important to note that 6 of our 8 league games have been against sides presently in the top 9 in the table, and they haven't got there just because they took 3 points off us. Listening to the interviews, I think Big Sam was more shell-shocked than Nigel after their dismal first half, and then we handed the game to Wham in the first two minutes after the break....... however, basking in the glory of 14 points in the League, he volunteered that he was a bit concerned because..... (his quote).......Arsenal have been the only top side we've played so far and in the coming games we have Man.City, Man Utd .....etc . I think some people have quickly forgotten that those games are behind us and were not the only side who are gonna get walloped by the top six....... Nigel has got an uphill task to get the defence tightened up..... .and Spurs will be no walk-over... but I'm sure well start picking up points when we begin to play other clubs nearer our end of the table. But the worry has to be that the one game where we played a bottom half team, we looked lost, short of ideas and pretty inept. Wigan came out very comfortable 2-0 winners, and they are a pretty abysmal side. There are no 2 ways about that as their results since then have shown. I must admit, I'm starting to get very, very worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 I wavered about NA somewhat yesterday I must admit. I'm back on the bus now, but the collapses are becoming more and more depressing. Defeat, I can handle. The team folding up like a broken deck chair is what is killing me. Sums it up for me, I was quite shaken twice yesterday, once when I heard the team news and then by that 2nd H performance. Something aint right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 (edited) BTW: To anyone who thinks it's over the top to see a poll like this every week...For the moment, I disagree. It is interesting for me to monitor where we stand on this issue, at least until if and when we come out of a near free fall. I'd much rather view stats generated by all of us than trawl through all the lame comments by the same old faces to gauge how we really feel. Edited 21 October, 2012 by Ohio Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 Well I'm backing NA for reasons stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyeddie Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 Pleasantly surprised by the Poll Results. Thought the tide of strength was for NA to leave. He can only learn through making mistakes, and the biggest one was not adding to the defense as a first measure during the summer. I admire his honesty and achievements for the past two years. He has taken us way past our expectations. I hope he is given more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints Warrior Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 Keep him, and for stability. Its interfering ownwers or 3rd party thats the problem. I cant see that the 2 buys this season were his choices, I think they are here to be sold on in Jan window for a profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rshephard3 Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 Thats just mental imo. Boruc is a fully fledged international keeper with a stronger club history than KD. I like Gazzaniga but he needs to be brought on gradually. Yeah Boruc looked truly head and shoulders above a probably now demoralised pair of other goalies we have. especially his kicking, truly top draw. Tinkering for the sake of it. Gazza has held his own IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 Yeah Boruc looked truly head and shoulders above a probably now demoralised pair of other goalies we have. especially his kicking, truly top draw. Tinkering for the sake of it. Gazza has held his own IMO. One aspect of Gazzaniga's game that has been impressive, especially given his age, is his decisiveness coming for crosses and taking charge of the penalty area. I can't imagine him hesitating and then backpeddling as Boluc did yesterday for the first W Ham goal,("fully fledged international" or not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 My opinion has hardened since I recalled how much of Markus's hard-earned money was spent over the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rshephard3 Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 One aspect of Gazzaniga's game that has been impressive, especially given his age, is his decisiveness coming for crosses and taking charge of the penalty area. I can't imagine him hesitating and then backpeddling as Boluc did yesterday for the first W Ham goal,("fully fledged international" or not). To elaborate a little further on my previous sarcasm, I think he is one huge positive to come out of the transfer window. Excellent decision making, good long accurate kick. I've enjoyed watching him. The football world is littered with international keepers who would be no good in the prem. It's also near on disrespectful not to put Kelvin in if Gazza is to be dropped. How could we possibly have been better off with Boruc than Kelvin when Jos and Fonte were at the back?! I found that unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 It is like the Plebgate situation with Mitchell you knew he was going but not when he was going. Prefer NC went myself so that we got in players for football reasons and wanted by the manager this might be the case now but there are too many rumours which say that is not the case. I feel that NC downfall will be because of his transfer dealings like Lowe's was his choice of managers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonb Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 17th and a cup run was always good enough for me in our first season back. Others may have wanted more, but that's enough for me. Depending on how we play the rest of the season, I might even keep Adkins if we go down. Mcmenenemy relegated us before promotion and the cup win. We've been spoilt by a manager who earned his shot, and has worked his way up through the non-leagues. He has delivered back to back promotions over two seasons at the first time of asking. He has us playing attractive football (if somewhat open). Yet some on here want him sacked after 8 games. 8. What a ****ing joke. Do people think that is truly a 'fair crack of the whip'. Who should we appoint? Steve Bruce? Mick Mcarthy? Harry dickhead Redknapp (The amnesiacs and Tvvats favourite. Little clue, he was a bungy manager then who didn't give a sh1t, nothing has changed now). Oh and just because the same posters make 100 different threads on the same subject, does not mean the 'silent majority' want him gone. It just means you're making a circle jerking 'echo chamber' of "sack the manager" that nigh on 70% (comfortably over 2/3) of users who want Adkins to stay on here can't be bothered to get into, beacause you'll just bore them to death by spamming the threads. TOP POST. Mods close thread. Hallelujah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paris Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 Just voted keep him , without reading one of the comment on here since Friday ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwsaint Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 What I don't get is why we spent all that money on midfield and strikers, and the defence seemed to be an afterthought. We all knew that it wasn't up to it. I don't think that NA is nieve enought to think that they would cope. Either the deals just didn't come off or NC had different priorities. Problem is, the way the club is run now we aren't likely to find out as it doesn't seem to leak information as it once did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 This time yesterday I was convinced he would be gone by now. Yet here we are; I now think he will be given more time for the following reasons: 1) As indicated, the club operates a youth to seniors tactical plan. The pro's/con's of this are not the crucial thing here, the fact Nigel Adkins is sticking with this is. 2) The lack of ideal alternatives. Curbishley? Twitchy? Bloody Hoddle? No. 3) A greater sense of perspective. Back to back promotions and parachute payments next year if the worst happens. People mock when you say 'consider where we were three years ago.....' forgive me if I keep doing so. 4) A history of achieving when the odds are against him. Look at S****horpe now...... how the hell did he take them to the championship twice. If we go yoyo I know he'll do well for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plumstead_Saint Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 Keep Adkins [obviously], get rid of Boruc :-P Was puzzled with the signing, then thought ok, 3rd choice bench warmer to cover all eventualities. Here are some other "experienced international keepers" I don't want to see playing for Saints - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josep_G%C3%B3mes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldo_Junior_Simoncini http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A1kup_Mikkelsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Wolf Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 No. He got it wrong big time on Saturday but everyone makes mistakes. Give him till Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted 21 October, 2012 Share Posted 21 October, 2012 Voted to keep him. Think possibly promotion came a season too soon. Some of the players we bought could have done with a season together. Jay Rod and Billy Sharp for example would be good squad players with an experienced Prem quality striker. Whilst Rickie is good at what he does, if we had spent another season in the championship, he would not be playing in the Prem with us if we had been promoted the end of this season. Again with Clyne, perhaps a year too early to be in the Prem. However with this all said survival even by 1 point, (will not be goal difference with our defensive record). is all we need this year. A new manager would struggle with our defense, any manager can not stop sloppy play. And defo not the twitching tw** anywhere near this club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 I want him to stay for the time being, however the team that had so much spirit is now looking a shadow because the plan is not working, but nobody wants to modify it even slightly it seems. If there's one out of work Manager that would sort out the defence and that's Rafa B...would not be surprised frankly...a home loss next weekend might be the straw. HUGE pressure on Adkins and the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 I am note sure this is helpful although I am pleased with the result. I think Adkins is already doomed but I do not know if it will be this week or after the game against a Spurs side who are a different proposition to the mediocre West Ham outfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayrivers Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 I am note sure this is helpful although I am pleased with the result. I think Adkins is already doomed but I do not know if it will be this week or after the game against a Spurs side who are a different proposition to the mediocre West Ham outfit. I think you have to keep him until at least after the QPR game. A couple of wins by then and it will look completely difference. The teams looks like they are lacking confidence! On saturday they fell apart after the first goal. Finally got back into the game and then the 3rd destroyed them again. I think a clean sheet and a couple of wins could get then believing again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Under Weststand Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 The big mistake during the summer, was not strengthening the defence with premiership quality for whatever reasons! It's been alluded to that the club are sticking to a rigid policy re-formation throughout the teams, if they sack NA then what is the point of bringing in a new coach, if he is still still stuck with this rigid formula? Somehow we have to stop the flow of goals going in, with the personnel available at the back we have little room for manoeuvre. We have no options to switch personnel, as they are all pretty much of a muchness. So that leaves us with needing to get to January with as little damage done as possible. So either NA or another coach needs to be given carte Blanche to change our current policy for the first team to allow NA or another to play a team/formation that will stem the tide. I voted to keep NA and hope is given the chance he's earned it. As there is no point changing unless the shackles are taken off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Uwe Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 I vote to stick with him - he needs to be given the time to sort these problems out. We are nowhere near adrift but obviously we can't go on conceding an average of three goals every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsaints106 Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 FFS this is exactly why we have struggled over the years, we need stability and if that means relegation so be it. We clearly need to improve but the guy has delivered back to back promotions!! I am already starting to dislike this hire em fire em glory hunting Premiership. Last two years were the best I can remember and for me NA deserves the season at least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 FFS this is exactly why we have struggled over the years, we need stability and if that means relegation so be it. Pure cominc genius. If relegation isnt the ultimate form of "struggling", I dont know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 two choices, stick with him, and hopefully come back stronger ala Man Utd/Ferguson or sack him and spend the next 10 years getting good and bad managers, the good ones get better jobs and he bad ones get sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Saint Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 Stick with Nigel. Lawrie took a while to get going and look what happened then. But I would still get a coach in to help Nigel out in the short-term - to take the pressure off him and to shore up our lousy defence. It isn't just individual mistakes, it's more fundamental than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinR Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 I vote we don't have these kind of polls until AT LEAST 48 hours after a game, positve or negative result. That way, we don't have the knee jerk reactions. Loyalty is one thing (not convinced Adkins would stay if Liverpool offered him a job) but more importantly, the facts backup that Adkins remains the best man for the job. 8 games is not enough to judge him on either, even if we had lost them all. But things do need to improve and he no doubt knows that more than most, its his job we're talking about after all. I think we should run the poll again now. My money would be on 80%+ approval ratings, with the 20% being the more vocal minority that we've always taken too much notice of in society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinR Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 It isn't just individual mistakes, it's more fundamental than that. Disagree with that. The team is set up correctly, even Gary Neville had said so. Individual errors are costing us. Take Sat for example... goal 1- foul on Carroll. Nothing to do with formations etc. goal 2- team in possession and moving up field, Yoshi tried to backheal (??) the ball over the attackers head, lost possession, goal. Nothing to do with formations. goal 3- Fonte handballed it, defence is complete control. Nothing to do with formations. goal 4- 3 men backing off one attacker. Ridiculous decision making, nothing to do with formations. Stick with it Nige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 Gary Neville analysed one game We are just incredibly crap. And are going down on this path Either the manager or the approach has to change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 We have to give him a fair chance but I can't see him being given much longer - Cortese spent big in the summer and relegation would be a complete and utter disaster for us financially. Carry on like this and I reckon he'll be gone come December. So far his decision making has been bizarre to say the least. You can't even start to imagine what he was thinking when selecting some of the teams and the subs he's made have left me scratching my head on a regular basis. We're currently paying the price for not signing any decent PROVEN defenders and a decent 'keeper in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 two choices, stick with him, and hopefully come back stronger ala Man Utd/Ferguson or sack him and spend the next 10 years getting good and bad managers, the good ones get better jobs and he bad ones get sacked. Why does replacing Adkins means 10 years of managerial changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 FFS this is exactly why we have struggled over the years, we need stability and if that means relegation so be it. We clearly need to improve but the guy has delivered back to back promotions!! I am already starting to dislike this hire em fire em glory hunting Premiership. Last two years were the best I can remember and for me NA deserves the season at least! So lets struggle anyway. Just to say we kept our manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 So lets struggle anyway. Just to say we kept our manager What would everyone moan about though if a new manager came in but the players kept making the same stupid mistakes which have cost us far more than anything Adkins has done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 What would everyone moan about though if a new manager came in but the players kept making the same stupid mistakes which have cost us far more than anything Adkins has done? His subs in the Man Utd and Fulham games cost us and lack of decent defensive signings have been our single biggest downfall this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 So lets struggle anyway. Just to say we kept our manager Playing devil's advocate. One season of struggle but with the stability of the same manager, the manager who knows how to take us out of the second tier, a manager who has his squad, his team supplemented with a greater budget due to parachute payments and better squad thanks to players signed in the top flight. Taking the short term pain of a difficult and chastening first season back in the top flight for the sake of a longer term vision may pay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 His subs in the Man Utd and Fulham games cost us and lack of decent defensive signings have been our single biggest downfall this season. That's an opinion and there is nothing tangible which suggests that either decision cost us the games. Overall the shape and tatics haven't been an issue IMO but look back at all the goals we have conceded, the majority are individual errors which are nothing to do with Adkins subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 So lets struggle anyway. Just to say we kept our manager This. I cant think of one multi-million pound turnover company that would keep the manager if the brand was suffering like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 Playing devil's advocate. One season of struggle but with the stability of the same manager, the manager who knows how to take us out of the second tier, a manager who has his squad, his team supplemented with a greater budget due to parachute payments and better squad thanks to players signed in the top flight. Taking the short term pain of a difficult and chastening first season back in the top flight for the sake of a longer term vision may pay off. I'm so sure about this....some of our signings have been very suspect indeed...some of the team selections have been also very suspect indeed.... The persistence with players who are clearly not good enough is very suspect. For me NA is showing too many alarming flaws plus last year we were promoted despite playing some very average football second half of the season and only crept over the line. I am beginning to think NA has been punching above his weight for a while now and it is beginning to show....Too many mistakes - its time to shake his hand and thank him for everything NA will not take this club to its destination..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
influx Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 Isn't funny how some posters become more prolific when we are doing badly. I'm pretty damn sure they thrive on it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 Do you reckon that Kelvin or Gaz would have saved the first or second goal today? Yes. And who knows; Davis might even have saved the penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
influx Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 And those people saying get rid of NA are mental! Just my opinion of course. If we go down then so be it, but I'd rather have Adkins in the NPC than any of the muppets that keep getting mentioned on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 That's an opinion and there is nothing tangible which suggests that either decision cost us the games. Overall the shape and tatics haven't been an issue IMO but look back at all the goals we have conceded, the majority are individual errors which are nothing to do with Adkins subs. Other than we looked a worse side after those subs were made, lost all the momentum we had in the game and sat back and invited pressure? You're right, there's no evidence at all that they cost us. Jos has been a disaster zone at the back this season. He shouldn't even be on the bench, though due to poor defensive signings in the summer, he's actually starting games! Therefore you could argue that some of the individual errors can be blamed on NA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 Disagree with that. The team is set up correctly, even Gary Neville had said so. Individual errors are costing us. Take Sat for example... goal 1- foul on Carroll. Nothing to do with formations etc. goal 2- team in possession and moving up field, Yoshi tried to backheal (??) the ball over the attackers head, lost possession, goal. Nothing to do with formations. goal 3- Fonte handballed it, defence is complete control. Nothing to do with formations. goal 4- 3 men backing off one attacker. Ridiculous decision making, nothing to do with formations. Stick with it Nige The first goal came as a result of the ref awarding a foul against Carroll which was never a foul in a million years. And then it went downhill from there on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayrivers Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 (edited) The first goal came as a result of the ref awarding a foul against Carroll which was never a foul in a million years. And then it went downhill from there on. For me that was the story of that game. First half Jos handled him really well I thought. Then second half he started dropping everytime Jos went near him. Almost as if their manager said to him - if you hit the deck you might get something. That happened and he kept doing it. After that game I have a very low opinion of Carroll! Edited 22 October, 2012 by jayrivers Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 The first goal came as a result of the ref awarding a foul against Carroll which was never a foul in a million years. And then it went downhill from there on. I've never seen a player spend more time sprawled out on the floor than Carroll. Every time he went up for a header, he just threw himself on the ground and the ref gave a freekick. Makes me laugh what Lambert has to put up with every week without any help from the ref and that long haired mincer get's a free kick every time someone dares to go near him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labibs Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 Voted to keep him for two reasons: I still think he can turn it round and because of the paucity of decent alternatives. The prospect of someone like McCarthy or HR fills me with dread. Adkins has clearly made mistakes, but has been unfortunate with injuries as well. I would give him until at least January and see where we are then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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