Is it cortese or adkins?

[LGTL]

Cortese, Adkins or Read?

[Hopkins]

The fascination with pointing the finger at Cortese for Adkins 433 comment is a bit OTT. The theory is a good one, one that is implemented at ALOT of top top clubs round the world. The idea that the whole club playing the same way is one that is often praised.

 

Leaving all footballing matters in the full control of the manager who is the one whose job is the least safe in every club doesn't make a lot of sense. No point in changing the manager and having another come in and change everything . Les Reed job here is vital. Just look at clubs who have changed manager recently suh as Swansea, they wanted a manager who fitted their clubs philosophy. The club is always bigger than the manager nowadays and the trick is to find one that suits and performs in your environment.

 

The problem I think has come in our first team trying to implement this in our toughest season under Adkins so far. The first season was about getting out of League one ASAP. If playjhg 433 was the plan all along why didnt we try doing if last year? Has the plan changed over the summer or was it always the plan to change to 433 this season? We're we hoping we'd invest well enough to pull it off this year? If so, that could still happen an dCortese and Reed have to decide whether Adkins can implement sufficiently. They must have seen him as a long term appointment when they have him a contract extension, has their faith in his ability to coach and implement a 433 formation dwindled? We'll see.

[RobM]

The fascination with pointing the finger at Cortese for Adkins 433 comment is a bit OTT. The theory is a good one, one that is implemented at ALOT of top top clubs round the world. The idea that the whole club playing the same way is one that is often praised.

 

I agree, but we seem to be doing it backwards. In my mind it would be sensible to find the style that works best for us, build and strengthen the first team around it, prove it, then develop the ethos around it. We seem to have a dream of what would be nice, a brand name (The Southampton Way) and are now trying to make it work at all levels at the same time.

[aintforever]

The fascination with pointing the finger at Cortese for Adkins 433 comment is a bit OTT. The theory is a good one, one that is implemented at ALOT of top top clubs round the world. The idea that the whole club playing the same way is one that is often praised.

 

Leaving all footballing matters in the full control of the manager who is the one whose job is the least safe in every club doesn't make a lot of sense. No point in changing the manager and having another come in and change everything . Les Reed job here is vital. Just look at clubs who have changed manager recently suh as Swansea, they wanted a manager who fitted their clubs philosophy. The club is always bigger than the manager nowadays and the trick is to find one that suits and performs in your environment.

 

The problem I think has come in our first team trying to implement this in our toughest season under Adkins so far. The first season was about getting out of League one ASAP. If playjhg 433 was the plan all along why didnt we try doing if last year? Has the plan changed over the summer or was it always the plan to change to 433 this season? We're we hoping we'd invest well enough to pull it off this year? If so, that could still happen an dCortese and Reed have to decide whether Adkins can implement sufficiently. They must have seen him as a long term appointment when they have him a contract extension, has their faith in his ability to coach and implement a 433 formation dwindled? We'll see.

 

If that is what we are trying to do it is f*cking suicidal.

[SaintRichmond]

Is it Cortese, Adkins, or Reed ???

 

The main question to ask these Three Amigos is ... " Do you want Premiership Football at Southampton ??? "

 

If the answer is " Yes " then the System has to change. Why ?.. Because the present one is not working, simple as that

 

If the answer is " No " then keep things exactly as they are, because it will guarentee Relegation

 

Question for Cortese and Reed. If, as has been stated, Adkins is the "Coach" and NOT the "Manager", I sincerely hope that it will be your own swords you fall on, and not sacrifice the person with the least control of how things have been run this season ????

 

As Honorable Gentlemen, I am sure that you would not stoop to such "scapegoat" tactics ??

[shirleysfc]

So who choose the formation when we didn't play 4-3-3 against Fulham or when we changed formation in the second half against Wigan?

[shurlock]

If people can't pin NC's grubby paws on team selection, then go after the next best thing: formation, a total red herring. Formation has nothing to do with our troubles. A 4-3-3 with JWP in the side is different from a 4-3-3 with Ramirez in the side -both in terms of attacking intent and quality. We were blown off the park when we went to 4-4-2 against Wigan. Why? Coz the personnel hadn't changed.

[saint_bert]

It's not losing, it's the way we are losing!

 

Bang on. The way we fold once conceding is frightening.

[SaintRichmond]

So who choose the formation when we didn't play 4-3-3 against Fulham or when we changed formation in the second half against Wigan?

 

Most likely the new instructions were given during the half time break ??

 

I think it fair to say that, mainly, the tactics AT KICK OFF TIME are the incorrect ones

 

Big Sam summed it up well by saying that at half time he told his team to close us down quicker, and stop us doinf what we wanted. HIS tactics were logical, and they worked, and I'm not a fan of his.

 

Whoever is in charge at SMS, has got it wrong. They are trying to run without mastering the ability to walk. We are at least Five players short from a team CAPABLE of playing "the Southampton Way"

 

Cortese/Reed/Adkins have GOT to realise we are NEW to the Premiership, we are NOT Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man U etc etc

 

Those teams got there by years of development, and a gradual reasoned planned Building of Quality in their teams

 

Cortese's revised 5 year Plan is fast turning into his own 5 minute Instant one

 

Well, he can forget the "expansion" of SMS. Crowds will not flock back to see CCC Football next term

[shirleysfc]

Are you actually saying that Cortese or Read told Adkins to change formation at half time against Wigan?? Mental!

[GAS]

Seems odd that these stories only surface when we are doing badly. If Cortese has been picking the team and formations for the past 2 years he hasn't done too badly

 

Personally I think its b*******. At the very least NC doesn't make the substitutions which have cost us at least 5 points this season.

Maybe he does. Have you seen the QPR documentary?

[Wade Garrett]

So who choose the formation when we didn't play 4-3-3 against Fulham or when we changed formation in the second half against Wigan?

 

Exactly, this is all a smokescreen IMO.

[shurlock]

Are you actually saying that Cortese or Read told Adkins to change formation at half time against Wigan?? Mental!

 

Tongue-in-cheek but the the so-called voices of reason and cold reality on here aren't a million miles off claiming that. Of course, it's only the rest of the world that has an agenda in their eyes. Takes one to know one, I guess.

[SaintRichmond]

Are you actually saying that Cortese or Read told Adkins to change formation at half time against Wigan?? Mental!

 

You tend to forget that Adkins is only a "Coach", and when Reed clarified that point, he was looking down his nose. Bit like "Us" and "Them"

 

Based on what Adkins has achieved for us the past two seasons, ie back to back promotions, don't you find it just a little odd that, suddenly. he is shown to be tactilly clueless

 

People just do not change "instantly" like that

 

I am convinced that Adkins is not being allowed to run the team as he would wish

 

"It's all down to me " he says. Toeing the Party line IMHO

 

He's being hung out to dry IMHO

[Kingsland Red]

Most likely the new instructions were given during the half time break ??

 

I think it fair to say that, mainly, the tactics AT KICK OFF TIME are the incorrect ones

 

Big Sam summed it up well by saying that at half time he told his team to close us down quicker, and stop us doinf what we wanted. HIS tactics were logical, and they worked, and I'm not a fan of his.

 

Whoever is in charge at SMS, has got it wrong. They are trying to run without mastering the ability to walk. We are at least Five players short from a team CAPABLE of playing "the Southampton Way"

 

Cortese/Reed/Adkins have GOT to realise we are NEW to the Premiership, we are NOT Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man U etc etc

 

Those teams got there by years of development, and a gradual reasoned planned Building of Quality in their teams

 

Cortese's revised 5 year Plan is fast turning into his own 5 minute Instant one

 

Well, he can forget the "expansion" of SMS. Crowds will not flock back to see CCC Football next term

 

This is the failing, in my opinion.

We are playing too much football in our own half, which is great for a confident team with better individuals than the opposition.

We now need a season of playing percentage football, mainly in the opposition's half of the field, and getting the ball there quicker.

Once we have Messi, Javi and Iniesta on board we can return to play the 'Southampton Way'.

[Roger]

This is the failing, in my opinion.

We are playing too much football in our own half, which is great for a confident team with better individuals than the opposition.

We now need a season of playing percentage football, mainly in the opposition's half of the field, and getting the ball there quicker.

Once we have Messi, Javi and Iniesta on board we can return to play the 'Southampton Way'.

 

This is what I dont understand. The last few years nigel has been the master of when to play it long and when to pass it. We havent always played great football the last few years but we have toughed out results with mental strength and grit and playing 442 and the diamond. This season he seems to have changed and we are just too one dimensional. God knows what is going on but it cant carry on like this and the mucking around with our best player just is stupid.

[egg]

You tend to forget that Adkins is only a "Coach", and when Reed clarified that point, he was looking down his nose. Bit like "Us" and "Them"

 

Based on what Adkins has achieved for us the past two seasons, ie back to back promotions, don't you find it just a little odd that, suddenly. he is shown to be tactilly clueless

 

People just do not change "instantly" like that

 

I am convinced that Adkins is not being allowed to run the team as he would wish

 

"It's all down to me " he says. Toeing the Party line IMHO

 

He's being hung out to dry IMHO

 

Agree 100%. I don't think any sane coach would have picked our starting 11 at Everton, for example. So many flair players away from home was a recipe for disaster. That selection just seemed like we were shoehorning players into the team because we had to. I think that's the point of the 433 tbh. It gives more scope, in theory, to accomodate all of NC's shiny new players and those on big dollars like AL. Try getting AL, JR, GR, RL into a 442 - even more square pegs in round holes, less bite in the middle, and less protection for full backs.

 

I pity NA. He's been given parts that he doesn't need and is missing parts that he does. His boss wants a fully functioning machine out of those parts and expects parts that don't quite fit to be used regardless. Mental.

[SaintRichmond]

This is what I dont understand. The last few years nigel has been the master of when to play it long and when to pass it. We havent always played great football the last few years but we have toughed out results with mental strength and grit and playing 442 and the diamond. This season he seems to have changed and we are just too one dimensional. God knows what is going on but it cant carry on like this and the mucking around with our best player just is stupid.

 

IMHO, this season he has been TOLD to change, and the result of that pearl of wisdom can be seen by looking at the Prem League Table

 

That person, whoever he may be, needs to Shut Up, and Shut Up fast

 

If that "disruptive influence" person doesn't Shut Up, then he can rest content in the knowledge that his wonderful doctrine will lead us straight back to the CCC

 

Adkins should be our MANAGER, not a Coach with no teeth

 

Cortese/Reed should hang their heads in shame at the way they have hamstrung the person who has done so much for our Club for the past Two Seasons

[Roger]

IMHO, this season he has been TOLD to change, and the result of that pearl of wisdom can be seen by looking at the Prem League Table

 

That person, whoever he may be, needs to Shut Up, and Shut Up fast

 

If that "disruptive influence" person doesn't Shut Up, then he can rest content in the knowledge that his wonderful doctrine will lead us straight back to the CCC

 

Adkins should be our MANAGER, not a Coach with no teeth

 

Cortese/Reed should hang their heads in shame at the way they have hamstrung the person who has done so much for our Club for the past Two Seasons

 

Well then adkins should come out and say that now. He could get a job at a lot of good clubs.

[SaintRichmond]

Agree 100%. I don't think any sane coach would have picked our starting 11 at Everton, for example. So many flair players away from home was a recipe for disaster. That selection just seemed like we were shoehorning players into the team because we had to. I think that's the point of the 433 tbh. It gives more scope, in theory, to accomodate all of NC's shiny new players and those on big dollars like AL. Try getting AL, JR, GR, RL into a 442 - even more square pegs in round holes, less bite in the middle, and less protection for full backs.

 

I pity NA. He's been given parts that he doesn't need and is missing parts that he does. His boss wants a fully functioning machine out of those parts and expects parts that don't quite fit to be used regardless. Mental.

 

 

I agree. I don't know what car Cortese drives, but someone should give him some spare parts for a Lada, and tell him that his car will still work 100%

 

Bit like asking Usain Bolt to run in Wellies

[egg]

Well then adkins should come out and say that now. He could get a job at a lot of good clubs.

 

Breaking ranks will make him less employable, not more.

[SaintRichmond]

Well then adkins should come out and say that now. He could get a job at a lot of good clubs.

 

 

If he's got any Balls he SHOULD

 

Fans would back him, and Cortese WOULD, at the end of the day HAVe to rethink

[Tomobz]

I went to one of those fans dinners last year and it was obvious to everyone that Nicola has very limited football knowledge and no football background. To suggest that he is picking the team, has influence in the team or would even want to have influence in team is just ridiculous. Sort yourselves out

[egg]

I went to one of those fans dinners last year and it was obvious to everyone that Nicola has very limited football knowledge and no football background. To suggest that he is picking the team, has influence in the team or would even want to have influence in team is just ridiculous. Sort yourselves out

 

That doesn't deal with the idea that he may be doing it. It just suggests a car crash if he does. We're seeing car crashes every week.

[supersonic]

Point 1: Cortese does not pick the team or the tactics. In Adkins interview with Solent after the game he said "we're going to play 433" he didn't say "we have to play 433" Completely different.

 

Point 2: As has been said before by some on here, if Adkins was not in full control of the team, what type of professional would carry on in his job and not do something about it? And also, if NC is picking the team/tactics, Adkins is redundant, so do you not think NC would have got rid of him by now?

 

Point 3: In regards to transfers, NC, like any other chairman in the world of football, has the power to complete/veto any deal. Cortese does the negotiating, we know that. Any transfer between any football clubs in world football need the chairmans seal of approval first.

 

Point 4: Adkins has spoke, quite openly, about what he calls the 'Transfer Team' which includes himself, NC, Les Reed, and probably Crosby and a few scouts, who get together and talk about who they think the club should try and sign (and probably sell). Adkins clearly does have a say in who we sign.

 

Point 5: Football is a results-driven industry, and on the pitch results have not been good enough, the performance of individual players and tactical mistakes are down to Adkins. Next we'll be getting people saying NC phoned NA during the Man Utd game and told him to take off our best 3 players!

 

Everyone a the club is party responsible for our poor start to the season, including both NC and NA, but the later more so

[capitalsaint]

If he's got any Balls he SHOULD

 

Fans would back him, and Cortese WOULD, at the end of the day HAVe to rethink

 

Isn't that why Curbishley left West Ham? He hasn't been employed since.

[supersonic]

Isn't that why Curbishley left West Ham? He hasn't been employed since.

 

what odds on him being our new manager?

[capitalsaint]

He's been out of the game for so long I can't even remember which style of football his teams play.

[MOSaint]

If cortese is choosing the tactics, while possessing limited knowledge of the game as some have heard. You have to wonder who is advising him in this regard? What level of influence does Les Reed hold over these tactics?

Edited 21 October, 2012 by MOSaint

[Toomer]

Both Adkins and Cortese are out of there depth in the Prem.

[hypochondriac]

Most likely the new instructions were given during the half time break ??

 

I think it fair to say that, mainly, the tactics AT KICK OFF TIME are the incorrect ones

 

Big Sam summed it up well by saying that at half time he told his team to close us down quicker, and stop us doinf what we wanted. HIS tactics were logical, and they worked, and I'm not a fan of his.

 

Whoever is in charge at SMS, has got it wrong. They are trying to run without mastering the ability to walk. We are at least Five players short from a team CAPABLE of playing "the Southampton Way"

 

Cortese/Reed/Adkins have GOT to realise we are NEW to the Premiership, we are NOT Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man U etc etc

 

Those teams got there by years of development, and a gradual reasoned planned Building of Quality in their teams

 

Cortese's revised 5 year Plan is fast turning into his own 5 minute Instant one

 

Well, he can forget the "expansion" of SMS. Crowds will not flock back to see CCC Football next term

 

This is the best post I have read on here this week. Sums it up superbly

[hypochondriac]

This is what I dont understand. The last few years nigel has been the master of when to play it long and when to pass it. We havent always played great football the last few years but we have toughed out results with mental strength and grit and playing 442 and the diamond. This season he seems to have changed and we are just too one dimensional. God knows what is going on but it cant carry on like this and the mucking around with our best player just is stupid.

 

The thing is posters are saying we can't play 442 or the diamond in the prem well why not? We can't do much worse than now.