West Ham v Saints dissection

[gordonToo]

Awful deal.

 

I'd go further and say that NA seems a poor judge of a player's ability and shows little idea of how to build a progressive team capable of surviving in the Premiership. What success he has had has been built on the foundations provided by Pardew. Sadly it can only end in tears.

[JackFrost]

I think I am adding what most saints fans are seeing. Nearly everyone thinks that it is a mistake to leave out lambert.

 

In your last few posts you've called people "clueless", "a muppet" and told someone to shut up whilst adding nothing constructive to the debate yourself.

 

Frankly i second Weston Saint.

[shurlock]

In jrod's defense, I thought he was much better yesterday and very selfless, making decent runs and dragging defenders out of position. The problem was that there weren't always runners to exploit the spaces. But you also want a striker to be selfish -and Jrod doesn't have the confidence yet. Frankly, when Lambert came on, we didn't do much more.

 

If anything, it became slightly easier for West Ham as they were able to outnumber a rather static Lambert -just like last season. To be effective, Lambert needs someone close to him or pace behind as he drops off to receive the ball -still think he and Mayuka could be very potent, though we would need to compensate by introducing more grit into midfield.

Edited 21 October, 2012 by shurlock

[Graffito]

In jrod's defense, I thought he was much better yesterday and very selfless, making decent runs and dragging defenders out of position. The problem was that there weren't always runners to exploit the spaces. But you also want a striker to be selfish -and Jrod doesn't have the confidence yet. Frankly, when Lambert came on, we didn't do much more.

 

If anything, it became slightly easier for West Ham as they were able to outnumber a rather static Lambert -just like last season. To be effective, Lambert needs someone close to him or pace behind as he drops off to receive the ball -still think he and Mayuka could be very potent, though we would need to compensate by introducing more grit into midfield.

 

Agree he was selected ahead of Lambert for his mobility. Lambert didn't win much against their CBs which kind of confirmed the logic of playing Rodriquez. Unfortunately for him, and unusually, we didn't create much yesterday. Rodriguez did play Lallana in for the goal of course.

[Saint86]

I watched it Thanku. Lambert is our best player and I don't blame him for losing a bit of confidence. We didn't have a shot in target first Half either. If you had watched last 4 years you would know lambert has been class. We hardly got the ball after the3rd goal and was that lamberts fault. Clueless person

 

He was **** yesterday. And **** against Fulham. If Ferguson can drop Rooney I think we can drop Ricky 'the god' Lambert. God what poor argument. Dunno if u noticed but his replacement made the goal. Worked himself some good chance. Your opinion is wrong. And FYI, I have watched a lot more than the last 4 years. Which is probably a sounder base for my opinion than 4 years of lower league football. If u think a top striker, which he is, can't be dropped for, and for good reason against west ham, then your opinion is just wrong. He was crap, along with a lot of our players second half. To say he is our best player when he is laying like **** is delusional. No one has that status automatically. Not in this team anyway. And he was dropped so he didn't tire himself out as well

[Thedelldays]

If Ferguson can drop Rooney I think we can drop Ricky 'the god' Lambert. l

not even a close comparison....quite frankly.. ridiculous

[Roger]

He was **** yesterday. And **** against Fulham. If Ferguson can drop Rooney I think we can drop Ricky 'the god' Lambert. God what poor argument. Dunno if u noticed but his replacement made the goal. Worked himself some good chance. Your opinion is wrong. And FYI, I have watched a lot more than the last 4 years. Which is probably a sounder base for my opinion than 4 years of lower league football. If u think a top striker, which he is, can't be dropped for, and for good reason against west opinion is just wrong. He was crap, along with a lot of our players second half. To say he is our best player when he is laying like **** is delusional. No one has that status automatically. Not in this team anyway. And he was dropped so he didn't tire himself out as well

 

Jesus how you can have a rant like that against someone with his record for us I just don't know.

[THEVMAN]

Jesus how you can have a rant like that against someone with his record for us I just don't know.

Roger no one is doubting RL`s goal scoring ability which is second to none,a couple of people have just questioned his last couple of games.Sometimes you just need to pull your reins in mate dont take it personally.

[teacher]

At the end of the day Lambert has shown over the last 8 games that he is our biggest goal treat. With that in mind it seems ridiculous to drop him.

 

Saint86 the difference between Adkins dropping Lambert and Ferguson dropping Rooney is huge! Man U can afford to do it with the likes of Van Persie, Welbeck etc where as we have no other real replacements. JRod I have no doubt will come good but at this moment in time is a Championship player at best. Mayuka looks good but is short of game time, Gaston is injured and Guly isn't a striker.

[kpturner]

I think I am adding what most saints fans are seeing. Nearly everyone thinks that it is a mistake to leave out lambert.

Roge, you have got to get over this constant assertion that the majority of the planet agree with you, and the rest are clueless muppets. It just isn't true - sorry.

[SuperMikey]

I agree actually, Lambert hasn't been great the last few days and Jay led the line well actually. When Lambert came on the midfield had to do a lot more running as he was playing them in as opposed to running with the ball like Jay Rod was. Personally I would've taken off Punch and Jay Rod in the second half and played 442 with Lambert and Mayuka up top. But I agree, we didn't create much and Rickie was winning nothing against Collins yesterday.

[teacher]

Roge, you have got to get over this constant assertion that the majority of the planet agree with you, and the rest are clueless muppets. It just isn't true - sorry.

 

Every Saints fan I have spoken to also thinks that it is/was a mistake leaving Lambert out. I think that Roger although is not an official spokesman for all Saints fans is just saying what most people are thinking.

[S-Clarke]

I agree actually, Lambert hasn't been great the last few days and Jay led the line well actually. When Lambert came on the midfield had to do a lot more running as he was playing them in as opposed to running with the ball like Jay Rod was. Personally I would've taken off Punch and Jay Rod in the second half and played 442 with Lambert and Mayuka up top. But I agree, we didn't create much and Rickie was winning nothing against Collins yesterday.

 

I think Rodriguez has great movement, he gives us a bit more mobility up front and works the channels.

 

But Lambert really should have started yesterday, against a physical West Ham team I think it's pretty important to try where possible to match their strengths.

[RobM]

I think I am adding what most saints fans are seeing. Nearly everyone thinks that it is a mistake to leave out lambert.

 

I don't think you're speaking on behalf of most Saints fans. Many appreciate what NA did and why he left Lambert out, as it seemed to work well. We didn't lose the game because of it, in fact for large parts of it we looked very good in attack and JRod played well (who was Lamberts replacement). It was shocking individual defensive errors that lost us the game and even bringing Lambert on couldn't change that - we just went longer, higher and more direct, which didn't work.

[Chez]

I don't think you're speaking on behalf of most Saints fans. Many appreciate what NA did and why he left Lambert out, as it seemed to work well. We didn't lose the game because of it, in fact for large parts of it we looked very good in attack and JRod played well (who was Lamberts replacement). It was shocking individual defensive errors that lost us the game and even bringing Lambert on couldn't change that - we just went longer, higher and more direct, which didn't work.

 

spot on. Massive call by Adkins, shame he was let down by the errors.

[Gambol2K9]

It's all very well playing God knows how many passes sideways and backwards while the opposition get ten men formed up in a defensive shield then try to pick them apart with more sideways and the odd short forward pass that is mostly followed by a backwards pass/es to start again as any attackers have nowhere to go except offside. We have possession but we aren't hurting the opposition. We have to vary our game, we have to have goalscoring runners plus Lambert at the front, they have to be released early from midfield/defence without taking the obligatory ten passes to allow the opposition to form up.

 

Being patient in possession and building up attacks gradually whilst looking for that killer pass is something all the world's best teams. Would you rather we just hoofed it to Lambert every time we got the ball?

[Gambol2K9]

You can argue back and forth the merits of Lambert starting on the bench but to me the biggest crime was starting Boruc in goal.

 

Three keepers in eight games, can't be doing the defenders many favours.

[Saintjersey]

Being patient in possession and building up attacks gradually whilst looking for that killer pass is something all the world's best teams. Would you rather we just hoofed it to Lambert every time we got the ball?

 

We aren't one of the world's best teams.

[Chez]

I certainly want to see us pass teams to death and the folly of lumping it forward was shown yesterday as the West Ham centre backs eat that for breakfast, but when we break down possession in good areas we need to break with pace to take advantage of teams weaknesses. We failed to do that several times yesterday. They had had a slow midfield and slow defenders but we didn't expose it once.

[Graffito]

I certainly want to see us pass teams to death and the folly of lumping it forward was shown yesterday as the West Ham centre backs eat that for breakfast, but when we break down possession in good areas we need to break with pace to take advantage of teams weaknesses. We failed to do that several times yesterday. They had had a slow midfield and slow defenders but we didn't expose it once.

 

Not much pace so we have to move the ball much more quickly and get enough players up in support. That's been leaving us exposed when an attack breaks down. Yesterday was more cautious and slower.

[kpturner]

Every Saints fan I have spoken to also thinks that it is/was a mistake leaving Lambert out. I think that Roger although is not an official spokesman for all Saints fans is just saying what most people are thinking.

Now you are at it FFS. How do you know what most fans are thinking? How many of the (insert large number) fans have you canvassed for an opinion? Lambert has started every game apart from Man City and West Ham as far as I know - maybe Adkins feels that Lambert will have more of an impact when Rodriguez has run the legs out of some of the defenders. Who knows. Not everyone thinks that he must start every single game. Demba Ba scores goals for fun, but does he start every single Newcastle game? No. Why is that? Because the manager has formulated a plan for a particular game and it does not involve a certain player from the outset. We didn't lose the game yesterday because Lambert was on the bench, did we? Edited 21 October, 2012 by kpturner

[SaintRobbie]

Hi All after 2 months away.

Substantial defeat by a club we beat to a top two place last season and relegation zone is not what the Chairman promised. By all means look at the manager but he is the same man who won the two consecutive promotions. Cortese talked about being a top half prem side but has he backed Adkins with enough cash for quality signings and did he do it soon enough? Adkins wanted two CBs in the early summer. Instead we have one, signed late and as a Japanese player does he understand the players around him? WE wanted a fast winger and find ourselves up against one in Jarvis who we could have signed if we had made as good an offer as West Ham.

I'm more inclined to question the Chairman, or the owners, commitment than blame the manager.

 

I find myself violently agreeing with Profs last line.

[alpine_saint]

30-odd million spent during the summer, 6th largest in Europe.

 

40% of that is on the treatment table, and the rest are utter w*nk or being greviously mis-used.

[Chez]

Not much pace so we have to move the ball much more quickly and get enough players up in support. That's been leaving us exposed when an attack breaks down. Yesterday was more cautious and slower.

 

agree we don't have a great deal of pace, but there were times when we robbed their midfield, got behind it, only then to not drive on to their back four and use the ball quickly to expose their slow defenders. You don't need raw pace to do that, you just need to be positive. Missed trick IMO.

[Chez]

30-odd million spent during the summer, 6th largest in Europe.

 

40% of that is on the treatment table, and the rest are utter w*nk or being greviously mis-used.

 

Which signings are utter ****?

[Norm]

30-odd million spent during the summer, 6th largest in Europe.

 

40% of that is on the treatment table, and the rest are utter w*nk or being greviously mis-used.

 

 

and the rest are utter w*nk . Which ones?

[Chez]

I find myself violently agreeing with Profs last line.

 

the manager spent a fair old wedge as Alpine says. Jarvis or Ramirez? Yoshida or Collins? Managers live and die by their signings. Not sure how that phrase works with a transfer committee in place.

[SuperMikey]

I think Rodriguez has great movement, he gives us a bit more mobility up front and works the channels.

 

But Lambert really should have started yesterday, against a physical West Ham team I think it's pretty important to try where possible to match their strengths.

 

 

But even when he came on as 'fresh legs' he won nothing. They had him neutralised, both in the air and on the deck.

[Chez]

But even when he came on as 'fresh legs' he won nothing. They had him neutralised, both in the air and on the deck.

 

The supply to him wasn't good to be fair. I have to say surprised we didn't play Lambert for his defensive ability at set pieces.

[derry]

Being patient in possession and building up attacks gradually whilst looking for that killer pass is something all the world's best teams. Would you rather we just hoofed it to Lambert every time we got the ball?

 

I did say we have to vary our game. The best sides can keep the ball but also play balls through the channels at pace we don't. Chelsea's goals yesterday for example. There is no better example than MU breaking quickly from the back. Letting the opposition get goalside and then passing it sideways and backwards isn't the way to do it. Our league position equates to how good we are and that isn't very good.

[kpturner]

I did say we have to vary our game. The best sides can keep the ball but also play balls through the channels at pace we don't. Chelsea's goals yesterday for example. There is no better example than MU breaking quickly from the back. Letting the opposition get goalside and then passing it sideways and backwards isn't the way to do it. Our league position equates to how good we are and that isn't very good.

Are we really that bad? Maybe so, although the Villa game suggests that we can win games against the lesser teams in this league. Sad to say it, but the entire set-up from top to bottom (including fans like me) seems to have been caught out by the levels required in this league.

[captainchris]

I'd go further and say that NA seems a poor judge of a player's ability and shows little idea of how to build a progressive team capable of surviving in the Premiership. What success he has had has been built on the foundations provided by Pardew. Sadly it can only end in tears.

There is a grain of truth in this post....

[LostBoys]

Dreadful second half against a mediocre team

[svetigpung]

Are we really that bad? Maybe so, although the Villa game suggests that we can win games against the lesser teams in this league. Sad to say it, but the entire set-up from top to bottom (including fans like me) seems to have been caught out by the levels required in this league.

 

We all knew it was going to be difficult this season. Two promotions was simply too good.

Lets keep faith in old Nige.

IF we go down, then lets have the club in a steady solid position and be ready to bounce back up next time. No more sacking and desperate appointments of new managers every year.

Otherwise we'll be back where we were all those years ago.

The clubs going in the right direction. It just might take an extra year or so.

[alpine_saint]

We all knew it was going to be difficult this season. Two promotions was simply too good.

Lets keep faith in old Nige.

IF we go down, then lets have the club in a steady solid position and be ready to bounce back up next time. No more sacking and desperate appointments of new managers every year.

Otherwise we'll be back where we were all those years ago.

The clubs going in the right direction. It just might take an extra year or so.

 

Easy to say when its not your 30m just been spent.

[chigwells finest]

There is a grain of truth in this post....

 

 

outside of the top 6/8 sides their all mediocre ,, and what a load of ******** that is......too much is made of how everybody else is an also ran bar 2 mancs ans a few london clubs ,,its nonsense......there are plenty of players out there who do a great job in this league and allardyce bought a few of them for pennies ,,Collins 2m, Diame (free) benayoun ( Free Loan ) Carroll will cost the best part of 5/6 m to keep at the club but thats peanuts , esp when you think of the chaos he causes teams . allowing nolan to ghost in ,,, would you say west brom are mediocre too ?? or Fulham ?? ,, throwaway cliche'd comments by a new breed of supporter who gets all his info from 2 bob websites and all the usual media hype based on 4 teams only, it really infuriates me.... the real facts are you've played 4/5 of the best teams in europe in your 1st few games and been unlucky,, had it not been man city away , you'd of beaten 80% of team on that performance , so get behind your manager . team and 1 other point....there is no better manager in the country than Pardew for buying/finding talent,, the mans a genius in the transfer market ,, hardly ever bought a dud in 10 years FACT

[supersonic]

We had 9 players playing in their first season on premier league football in our starting line up, West Ham had 0 (Zero)

 

No substitute for experience

[Fitzhugh Fella]

We had 9 players playing in their first season on premier league football in our starting line up, West Ham had 0 (Zero)

 

No substitute for experience

 

 

That is a very revealing and interesting stat and tells its own tale

[Graffito]

We had 9 players playing in their first season on premier league football in our starting line up, West Ham had 0 (Zero)

 

No substitute for experience

 

West Ham looked a poor side too on Saturday. They may well struggle as the season progresses. There's no substitute for quality.

[derry]

Individual mistakes were the main problem. The first goal was down to the goalkeeper he had to track the ball. The second goal, Guly tried a fancy flick and gave the ball away then the real problem, Fonte marked Nolan tight on the back post but was ball watching, moved back across goal, lost Nolan who had acres of room to knock the ball in. The third goal was after a blatant shove that the linesman/referee missed, how much had that to do with Fonte's balance. The fourth goal was Yoshida being done but Fonte's positioning was hopelss and allowed the attacker on his inside. Fonte is a problem he loses concentration and his decision making is poor under pressure.

[Chez]

Individual mistakes were the main problem. The first goal was down to the goalkeeper he had to track the ball. The second goal, Guly tried a fancy flick and gave the ball away then the real problem, Fonte marked Nolan tight on the back post but was ball watching, moved back across goal, lost Nolan who had acres of room to knock the ball in. The third goal was after a blatant shove that the linesman/referee missed, how much had that to do with Fonte's balance. The fourth goal was Yoshida being done but Fonte's positioning was hopelss and allowed the attacker on his inside. Fonte is a problem he loses concentration and his decision making is poor under pressure.

for the record I'd like Yoshida's absolutely pathetic flick at the ball included in the reasons for the second goal. Far far more responsible than Fonte for that one IMO.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Both Fonte and Jos have a habit of running back facing their own goal. Look at Wetshams second goal - Fonte dare not touch the ball because it would have gone in and lo and behold they had an unmarked player running in at the back post. It's classic errors that you see regularly at schoolboy level let alone lower pro leagues. People say we need a new left back - I say we need two top class CB's with Prem experience (Fonte and Jos are OK backups) - get that sorted and even Fox will be less of a liability.

[tajjuk]

61% possession, same number of attempts, 81% pass completion to West Hams very poor 67%, won more aerial duels.

 

We gifted an average West Ham team that can't pass 3 easy goals, when we were controlling the game. It is purely these defensive errors, they need cutting out, the rest of the team is doing well. To go away from home and dominate possession and to out pass the opposition is great but we let it down in 2 minutes of sloppiness.

[Window Cleaner]

Just got round to watching the highlights and can't help noticing how many times DM gets it wrong, if you listen to him Lallana is responsible for everything good that we do even when it's other players who actually do whatever it is that DM attributes to Lallana.