Viking Warrior Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Spurgeon has gobbed of again about their anti nucleur weapons stance and Nato. It was on BBC Scotland lastnight and I believe she said similar things on question time lastnight. So here are the facts the SNP do not want nucleur weapons in or around scotland. Faslane will be dicommissioned. Just think of of the jobs that will be lost when it is moved to england. The scots are going to be pleases, They have said the new 15K Scottish military services wil be based in Faslane once it is decommissioned and cleaned up. All other bases across scotland will be closed part from one airbase result again in further job losses as supporting businesses have to close. Then Miss gobby, when asked about having to go through the process of becoming a member of the EU despite what spain has said. she statesthat the spanish minister is only a planning minister and has no clout and should be ignored . What utter arrogance this woman has. I feel sorry for Scotland if they get a scottish only ideological independant scotland. Oh and therewill be new passports and border controls along the english /scottish borders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Saw this posted by an SNP activist on Facebook earlier.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 personally I'd rather they didn't have nukes anyway...last thing we need is some horrible little unstable 3rd world country with nukes........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 19 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Fair comment Doddsy , but we have them. The fact remains that salmond and his other fishy friend believe that by moving them way from scotland they will not be attacked. These guys are so bloody blind and thick if they think a nuclear attack in england will not affect them . they will not be immune from any fallout . Nukes just dont suddenly stop as they approach the scottish border and say "stop fellow alpha/beta/ gamma rays they are a friendly nation . turn round and give the english and welsh a double of glow in the dark medicine" The SNP are thicker than I give them credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Independence won't happen. Imagine the backlash when those living on benefits in their schemes are told they're going to be cut/stopped. The amount of benefits they would lose would be ridiculous. Uni fees, prescriptions, NHS etc. Think there was a poll done a while ago where the vast majority didn't want independence. Despite the chip on their shoulder about us, they know they need us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 personally I'd rather they didn't have nukes anyway...last thing we need is some horrible little unstable 3rd world country with nukes........ Errr Pakistan and India both have the capability for this. so its not really worth worrying about anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Fair comment Doddsy , but we have them. The fact remains that salmond and his other fishy friend believe that by moving them way from scotland they will not be attacked. These guys are so bloody blind and thick if they think a nuclear attack in england will not affect them . they will not be immune from any fallout . Nukes just dont suddenly stop as they approach the scottish border and say "stop fellow alpha/beta/ gamma rays they are a friendly nation . turn round and give the english and welsh a double of glow in the dark medicine" The SNP are thicker than I give them credit for. Do you know what would happen to the thousands of Jocks currently working in the military? Would they be kicked out? Offered English citizenship? Same deal as the Fijians and Gurkhas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Faslane contributes in the region of £60m+ to the local economy what would plug that gap ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Independence won't happen. Imagine the backlash when those living on benefits in their schemes are told they're going to be cut/stopped. The amount of benefits they would lose would be ridiculous. Uni fees, prescriptions, NHS etc. Think there was a poll done a while ago where the vast majority didn't want independence. Despite the chip on their shoulder about us, they know they need us. Its not a chip on the Shoulder its all banter Jocks abroad are British when they meet other UK nationals same as I am Hampshire and Wessex first then English then British then European. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Its not a chip on the Shoulder its all banter Jocks abroad are British when they meet other UK nationals same as I am Hampshire and Wessex first then English then British then European. Now Filipino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Errr Pakistan and India both have the capability for this. so its not really worth worrying about anymore. Both are on the Yanks payroll so they're not worth worrying about and there is no way America would ever let the Taliban into power in Pakistan. Iran are the main threat at the moment as they are one of the genuine rogue states. China would never let N. Korea misbehave as it would destabilize a region they're pouring billions into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 19 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 19 October, 2012 No idea Charming man, I have asked SNP reps the same question they say they are not in a position to comment. Salmond did mention ae year or so ago if he gets his way. then he would withdraw all scottish soldiers serving in afghan as he wanted them removed from danger. Im not sure how that works. especially as many regts and corps have a mixtures of scots/english/welsh/irish servicemen and women. Salmond is good with the gob but has not thought through his ideaologies. I will send him another email . he never responded to my first email about the very subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonraker Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 There is a motion on the table at the SNP conference to reverse the policy on NATO membership, Norway and Denmark are not happy with their policy. I believe that as the independence debate moves on the SNP and the supporters of independence will be continually found out as not having a clue as to realities of independent statehood compared to regional autonomous government. The debate is all around the SNP’s policies post independence when there is no guarantee that they will be the government as there will be a general election, unless King Alex adopts the Mugabe model. King Alex is also refusing to reveal the leagal advice he received on their possible EU status despite a FOI Commsioners juddegment against him. A question for legal profession, the Faslane Naval Base is UK Crown property is it agreed that all UK crown property will transfer to the new independent Scotland or will they have to buy it from the crown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 if scotland voted for independence and self rule,i doubt anything would change only that the uk will have a federal system of union. the queen will be still be head of state in scotland and being a eu member i cannot see there being controls unless the english government wants to waste money on bureaucracy and has for nuclear weapons ,i bet the scots will be glad they will not have to pay for something which they will never ever need. if a nuclear war happened we would probably all be dead anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Errr Pakistan and India both have the capability for this. so its not really worth worrying about anymore. Maybe I should have added on my doorstep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 There is a motion on the table at the SNP conference to reverse the policy on NATO membership, Norway and Denmark are not happy with their policy. I believe that as the independence debate moves on the SNP and the supporters of independence will be continually found out as not having a clue as to realities of independent statehood compared to regional autonomous government. The debate is all around the SNP’s policies post independence when there is no guarantee that they will be the government as there will be a general election, unless King Alex adopts the Mugabe model. King Alex is also refusing to reveal the leagal advice he received on their possible EU status despite a FOI Commsioners juddegment against him. A question for legal profession, the Faslane Naval Base is UK Crown property is it agreed that all UK crown property will transfer to the new independent Scotland or will they have to buy it from the crown? Interesting. Why are they not happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Faslane contributes in the region of £60m+ to the local economy what would plug that gap ? Perhaps they could get Pompey to play a few friendlies there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Perhaps they could get Pompey to play a few friendlies there... Against Rangers could be fun A combined 210 Million deficit game winner takes all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey-deacons-left-nut Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 the biggest problem facing them if they do split is money. The rates at which banks can borrow money will go up massivly for them, everything woudl get more expensive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonraker Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Because Scotland provides a key chain in the surveillance network for the North Sea and Iceland Faroes gap. This surveillance is currently undertaken by the UK Military as part of its commitment to NATO's collective security principle. The SNP's catalogue of sound bites on defence now require some substance and detail this one is classic “I will bring home all Scots” - Actually no you won’t. If the deal includes the transfer of current UK servicemen to the Scottish forces this will take some time and the individuals would have to agree / volunteer, also could Welsh, Irish and English servicemen request a transfer, those who don’t want to transfer will remain subject to UK military discipline and orders, so another hollow sound bite. There is a precednet for thsi: following the Irish partition many Irish Republic citizens remined in and continued to join the UK armed forces once they had signed the dotted line they were subject to all of the military regulations with no course for redress from the Irish Gov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Faslane contributes in the region of £60m+ to the local economy what would plug that gap ? You should know better than anyone that its unwise to big-up the massive impact it will have on Scotland if the nuclear deterrence is moved from Faslane. It will cause the rest of the UK major headaches to maintain CASD as well, since the facilities at Coulport will also close and they apparently are impossible to reproduce anywhere in England at anything other than an astronomical cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 You should know better than anyone that its unwise to big-up the massive impact it will have on Scotland if the nuclear deterrence is moved from Faslane. It will cause the rest of the UK major headaches to maintain CASD as well, since the facilities at Coulport will also close and they apparently are impossible to reproduce anywhere in England at anything other than an astronomical cost. I'm sure the French wouldn't mind sharing their Isle Longue SNLE base if the price was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Faslane contributes in the region of £60m+ to the local economy what would plug that gap ? The last time an area of Scotland was 'cleared', sheep were introduced. It was quite successful economically as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Do you know what would happen to the thousands of Jocks currently working in the military? Would they be kicked out? Offered English citizenship? Same deal as the Fijians and Gurkhas? Presumably anyone living permanently in Scotland would be offered Scottish citizenship, regardless of ethnicity ( ie including native English) and others could keep their 'new' British status. The Brtish armed forces would certainly allow scottish people with a british passport to continue to serve, and would probably allow existng serving membrs with a scottish passport to serve, but maybe not recruit new ones. After all we have serving members of the armed forces who are gurkhas etc. Personally I'd say take british citizenship or leave if you want to be Scottish, but I suspect we 'll be too 'nice' for that! What would be hilarious to see is how an independent Scotland coped with european laws preventing discriminition against EU citizens. They would for example lose the legal loophole by which they currently give free uni education to Scots but not to English students. So they'd either have to fund hordes of Englsih students avoiding the £9000 a year fees, or more likely, start charging their own undergraduates the same fee. One immediate 'popular' consequence of independence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 19 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Great post ken tone . I wait to see if I will be offered dual citzenship . The few snp up here dislike the English full stop . They bleat on about Scotland for the Scottish Shyte but I think they are a minority . Especially when I point out how many scots are working in the uk government . They still bleat on about the English but when I say do you know what racism is they soon shut up . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 What is the position of the Shetlands? (Don't, please don't say the obvious) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 (edited) What is the position of the Shetlands? About 50 miles north-east I believe Edited 19 October, 2012 by trousers sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 I'm looking forward to the Socialist Republic of Scotland. It will make for a fascinating case study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Will Scotland take RBS with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Just another dreamland policy that wont see the light of day, even if they manage to swing a result in the independence poll. It will go down the same toilet as their previous and vocally-stated policy of ditching sterling in favour of the euro, funny how Salmond never mentions that one nowadays.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Cut the fluuuuckers adrift , I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 What is the position of the Shetlands? (Don't, please don't say the obvious) ..... and the Orkneys, and the western isles ,and ........ They all historically were separate kingdoms or fiefdoms. There never really has been a united all-Scottish kingdom. The whole idea is a romantic invention of Victorian England ironically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Great post ken tone . I wait to see if I will be offered dual citzenship . The few snp up here dislike the English full stop . They bleat on about Scotland for the Scottish Shyte but I think they are a minority . Especially when I point out how many scots are working in the uk government . They still bleat on about the English but when I say do you know what racism is they soon shut up . Reminds of the Jo Caulfield line where she talks of how proud her Scottish husband dis of being Scottish ..how proud of Scotland.. how patriotic etc , how much he loves Scotland, but of course not so fond of Scotland to want to actually live there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Will Scotland take RBS with them? Isn't RBS owned by the Bank of England anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 Isn't RBS owned by the Bank of England anyway? No, it's about 80% owned by the treasury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 19 October, 2012 Share Posted 19 October, 2012 No, it's about 80% owned by the treasury. For some reason I was under the impression that RBS was bought by the BOE after the collapse. Banking isn't really my strong point (cue w4nking joke). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 20 October, 2012 Share Posted 20 October, 2012 No, it's about 80% owned by the treasury. So is Scotland itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 20 October, 2012 Share Posted 20 October, 2012 So is Scotland itself The rest is owned by the Queen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 20 October, 2012 Share Posted 20 October, 2012 But a poll published on Thursday – the first day of the party’s conference – showed support for the Union was almost double that for independence. In the Ipsos Mori survey, 30 per cent of those questioned backed Scotland becoming independent, compared with 58 per cent who supported the Union, while 12 per cent said they were undecided. Another poll today suggested only half the people who support independence were strongly in favour of it. A YouGov survey, commissioned by the pro-Union campaign group Better Together, found 31 per cent were in favour of independence, with 16 per cent of those strongly supporting it and 15 per cent who “tend to support it”. Of the 56 per cent opposed to independence, 37 per cent were strongly against it. http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/it-s-not-just-about-the-constitution-says-alex-salmond-1-2590050 Looks like you will be stuck with the Scots then :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 20 October, 2012 Share Posted 20 October, 2012 But a poll published on Thursday – the first day of the party’s conference – showed support for the Union was almost double that for independence. In the Ipsos Mori survey, 30 per cent of those questioned backed Scotland becoming independent, compared with 58 per cent who supported the Union, while 12 per cent said they were undecided. Another poll today suggested only half the people who support independence were strongly in favour of it. A YouGov survey, commissioned by the pro-Union campaign group Better Together, found 31 per cent were in favour of independence, with 16 per cent of those strongly supporting it and 15 per cent who “tend to support it”. Of the 56 per cent opposed to independence, 37 per cent were strongly against it. http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/it-s-not-just-about-the-constitution-says-alex-salmond-1-2590050 Looks like you will be stuck with the Scots then :lol: We should have a vote between English, Welsh and Northern Irish to allow them to stay or kick them out for causing this disharmony in the Union in the first place. I vote Kick them out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 20 October, 2012 Share Posted 20 October, 2012 We should have a vote between English, Welsh and Northern Irish to allow them to stay or kick them out for causing this disharmony in the Union in the first place. I vote Kick them out Even if Scotland votes to stay I think the rest of us should vote too. I'm with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 20 October, 2012 Share Posted 20 October, 2012 Even if Scotland votes to stay I think the rest of us should vote too. I'm with you. Mods Poll please. Bearsy can you assist in getting this a poll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 20 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 October, 2012 The thing us salmond and his puppet has said nothing about all the key issues that everyone needs to know about the implications for breaking away from the union so we can evaluate the pros and cons . I will send him another email and see if he responds . If his key note speech to day is anything to go by then he hasn't a clue . References to lord Snootys . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 20 October, 2012 Share Posted 20 October, 2012 The thing us salmond and his puppet has said nothing about all the key issues that everyone needs to know about the implications for breaking away from the union so we can evaluate the pros and cons . I will send him another email and see if he responds . If his key note speech to day is anything to go by then he hasn't a clue . References to lord Snootys . His main game will be to play on history rather than any policies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 20 October, 2012 Share Posted 20 October, 2012 If it wasn't for the oil Salmond wouldn't get a vote. If only we could reroute the pipelines lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 I see last week they narrowly voted to join NATO, but not to let an organisation where nuclear weapons are a corner-stone of their defensive strategy to actually station or transport such weapons through their territory, and only to actually support NATO action when the UN approves despite the fundamental "attack on one is attack on all" charter behind NATO. NATO should do the same as the EU and the Bank of England and tell these "cake and eat it" chancers to f**k off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 Join NATO? What the hell are they going to bring to the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 Join NATO? What the hell are they going to bring to the table? Half a dozen claymores and a 'Glasgow kiss' ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 It is dangerous to use forums like this as a guide to overall public opinion, but there does seem to be a feeling in England (no idea about N.Ireland or Wales) that we'd quite happily do without the Scots. "Sod 'em then" Seems to me there is a real possibility that the Scots will vote to stay in the union, but that if the rest of the UK were allowed to vote too, they'd be thrown out anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 22 October, 2012 Share Posted 22 October, 2012 (edited) Join NATO? What the hell are they going to bring to the table? well if Luxembourg can be a member with an army of 900 and no navy or airforce I'm sure a battalion of scots would be some use. Edited 22 October, 2012 by doddisalegend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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