Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 I keep on seeing in other threads people complaining that players need time to settle into our team (even though some of us feel this is what pre-season is for), so how long should we give them to settle? From what I can see our most disappointing player (JRod) has been with us for most of pre-season. Surely these are players who should be able to settle quickly being quite expensive and highly paid players? Should our scouting team have possibly looked at whether they take time to settle with previous moves before signing? How long can we give them until we can reasonably justify them as being bad purchases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 How long did it take Chelsea and City to win the EPL after they first bought their teams, 2/3 years - theres your answwer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 10 October, 2012 How long did it take Chelsea and City to win the EPL after they first bought their teams, 2/3 years - theres your answwer What a strange reply, are you saying that we shouldn't expect our players to play well for 2 to 3 years then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Computer says 230 days before you can justify calling them bad purchases. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Perhaps all players should be sold with the opposite of a "use by" date? A sort of "will be useful by" date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 There is no simple answer to this question as it very much depends on whether someone immediately gets a fixed position in the team, then gets a run of games etc.. JRod has been played out of position (left wing!) a few times and has been in and out of the squad so it's been more difficult for him than say, Steven Davis who has been played in his natural position, has had more minutes and looks more comfortable ! As for the team gelling, it really takes matches (rather than training sessions) to establish an effective system and bed things down properly. So far this has been disrupted by injuries (can happen to all teams in the league, I accept!) so things are not yet at the standard we'd all hoped for ! I don't think you can say 5 games, 10 games or whatever as there are just too many factors involved !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 I don't think we've had any problems gelling. We've been playing good football most of the time. The majority of the goals we've conceded have been due to individual errors, largely from players who've been here a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 I keep on seeing in other threads people complaining that players need time to settle into our team (even though some of us feel this is what pre-season is for), so how long should we give them to settle? From what I can see our most disappointing player (JRod) has been with us for most of pre-season. Surely these are players who should be able to settle quickly being quite expensive and highly paid players? Should our scouting team have possibly looked at whether they take time to settle with previous moves before signing? How long can we give them until we can reasonably justify them as being bad purchases? Oh, how I hate the word "gelling". It brings back the worst memories of Georgio Burlinho's reign as manager..... To respond to your point, this is one of the reasons I get so damned frustrated about transfer activity always being left so f**king late; we are never ready when the season starts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Troy Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 slightly obtuse thread - very clearly different people will take different lengths of time for a multitude of reasons both professional and personal. Settling in time is one thing in a team but quite clearly some players (and not just new ones) need time bedding in the prem itself - we simply dont train against a frontline of Tevez, Aguero and Silva every week. There is also a personall spin on things - some people would wnat 7m spent on someone who is going to cut it week in week out, others on someone that could be a future star. You can justify someone as being bad purchase just as soon as you like and suits your want, however that wont mean its the same in everyones eyes. Either way, unless they are clearly useless, its going to take time for the whole set up to bed in to playing games in the prem and we need to give undivided support during this time - it makes a difference on the pitch and you never know it could be the difference between finishing in the position we are now or one place below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Getting a little tiring that some people still need reminding JRod is a striker, who has earned his move by playing up front. Pre-season he started there. Arsenal away he came on late in the game and looked better than SRL did, who he replaced. League cup he played there. Last weekend he started his first game there. That's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 I haven't seen anyone say anything about us "taking time to gel" this season other than this thread. "Taking time to have a defensive midfielder", yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 What a strange reply, are you saying that we shouldn't expect our players to play well for 2 to 3 years then? What a strange reply yourself - at what point did i say it took Chelsea and City 2/3 years to play well? Their objective was to win the league, and it took that long for the players to settle in to the pattern (with a stable management), play as a team and actually achieve it. Not sure what our long term objective is, clearly we have not bought players to win the league, if our only objective this year is to stay up, then you would hope that it wont take our players 2/3 years to achieve that! As for these people that go on about pre-season, i dont recall Rickie Lambert being here at pre-season when we bought him and he didn't turn out bad that season. How people can expect a team to achieve much in pre season (aside from fitness) is beyond me, clearly not quite as astute as others perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Getting a little tiring that some people still need reminding JRod is a striker, who has earned his move by playing up front. Pre-season he started there. Arsenal away he came on late in the game and looked better than SRL did, who he replaced. League cup he played there. Last weekend he started his first game there. That's it so what are you saying then? It makes sense until you mention last weekend, which sort of undermines your logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Also playing a new formation this year, so even established players are taking time "to gel" e.g Lallana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 so what are you saying then? It makes sense until you mention last weekend, which sort of undermines your logic? Only if you think he was awful last weekend, in his first start there. I dont. This thread is about how long it takes to settle. Playing someone out of position, or out of the team, does not help speed this up. As eurosaint has said, compare to Davis playing regularly in his favoured position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 OK. see, thats whats confused me, you have made a completely logical and sensible post to the OP, its very rare on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Pre season is about getting match fit and trying different combinations. You want to be tested in matches but not overwhelmed by teams destroying confidence. When it comes to the nitty gritty of Premier football, for many it will have been a new experience. Like any steep leaning curve it takes a little time. Mistakes will be made but providing the player/s and Manager learn from that and become better players/Manager the ultimate aim will be achieved. For me this season it is about establishing a hold on Premier Football for next season. We have made some good purchases in goal, defence, midfield and attack. It is all about balance and finding players out in this league. We have found a few weaknesses that will need January purchases. At present we are not even in the relegation places. WHAT Do FANS EXPECT!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 I haven't seen anyone say anything about us "taking time to gel" this season other than this thread. "Taking time to have a defensive midfielder", yes. Do you mean a midfielder playing deep or a midfielder that is also a competent defender to protect the main back line by either getting to the point of attack first covered by a defender or alternatively dropping into the back four to restore it's balance if the main defenders are committed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Only if you think he was awful last weekend, in his first start there. I dont. This thread is about how long it takes to settle. Playing someone out of position, or out of the team, does not help speed this up. As eurosaint has said, compare to Davis playing regularly in his favoured position The question is surely why pay 7 million for a player and then play him out of postion...that kind of suggests the club didn't buy the right player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 The question is surely why pay 7 million for a player and then play him out of postion...that kind of suggests the club didn't buy the right player. loads of clubs are playing players out of position, De Silva at City for example - if he is good enough he can still impact - the question is, is he good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 The question is surely why pay 7 million for a player and then play him out of postion...that kind of suggests the club didn't buy the right player. Or, club bought the right player but manager not using him to full potential / where he wants to play / where he was told he would play when signing. I am not saying I know the answer to what has happened so far, but clearly he would play best for us up front. Yoshida looked very shaky at right back but no one is blaming him for that, clearly that is not his best position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Oh, how I hate the word "gelling". It brings back the worst memories of Georgio Burlinho's reign as manager..... To respond to your point, this is one of the reasons I get so damned frustrated about transfer activity always being left so f**king late; we are never ready when the season starts.... So you hate the though of gelling but continue to drone on and on about the importance of buying all our players on July 1st? DPS is the same, bangs on about it all summer and then complains that the one player we did sign early doesn't look like he's settled in very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Also playing a new formation this year, so even established players are taking time "to gel" e.g Lallana Lallana was excellent in our first game of the season and that was a vastly changed system, he didn't need much time to "gel" in a more narrow position with a striker playing alongside him on the left and Guly up front for 55 minutes. His recent dip in form is almost certainly down to his new baby's arrival - although his higher profile might also mean he's now being reduced by opposition tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 The question is surely why pay 7 million for a player and then play him out of postion...that kind of suggests the club didn't buy the right player. He's a longer term replacement for the 31 year who plays in his position at the moment. I'd think that playing him elsewhere is an indication of how highly regarded he is for his all-round ability. It's fairly obvious that 2 up with one behind top suits our best players, but it isn't necessarily the best system for us to be playing. There's also the little matter of Ramirez's best position being pretty much Lambert's best position (heading aside), and the fact we have a mental block on playing without Lambert at the moment. Give it 6 months and Ramirez will be the one we can't do without, and we'll be strides towards the Lambertless future which is inevitable within a couple of seasons given his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 He's a longer term replacement for the 31 year who plays in his position at the moment. I'd think that playing him elsewhere is an indication of how highly regarded he is for his all-round ability. It's fairly obvious that 2 up with one behind top suits our best players, but it isn't necessarily the best system for us to be playing. There's also the little matter of Ramirez's best position being pretty much Lambert's best position (heading aside), and the fact we have a mental block on playing without Lambert at the moment. Give it 6 months and Ramirez will be the one we can't do without, and we'll be strides towards the Lambertless future which is inevitable within a couple of seasons given his age. Doesn't really explain the times when Lambert wasn't on the pitch and Rodriguez was still playing wide left (e.g. Man City opening day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 As for the thread topic of gelling/settling; I must have missed it, as I've yet to see anyone suggest that the squad needs time to gel. We could do with a run without injuries though, that would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Doesn't really explain the times when Lambert wasn't on the pitch and Rodriguez was still playing wide left (e.g. Man City opening day). It does if you note that whilst Rodriguez was on the left we only conceded 1 goal in 60 minutes and when he went off we shipped 2 in 30. His defensive workrate and ability to retain possession and take the ball up the pitch were obvious strengths. Adkins said numerous times after that match that we played the way we did in the first hour in order to give ourselves a chance to do something later. When you're hugely overmatched as we'd expect to be against City it made sense to try and minimise their impact for as long as possible, and hanging Rodriguez out to dry up front (where Guly's hard working and tracking back was very useful for the first hour and wasn't something you'd expect of Lambert) wasn't the way to do that. We didn't do anything like that at Arsenal, left Lambert up isolated, didn't have Rodriguez supporting the left back, and got murdered, particularly from midfielders being the wrong side, not pressing or not tracking back - none of which Rodriguez failed to do against City. Our fitness didn't look suspect against City either, and he only came off when we decided to switch in Lambert as the focal point instead of Guly, having gone behind. The one bit I can't explain is why Rodriguez went off instead of Guly at City, but I guess that came down to either overall fitness (you don't get the rest in midfield you do as a striker and Guly's probably got a better engine overall) or the need for us to play on the break with players who mostly knew each other's strengths and movement tendencies from the previous season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Do you mean a midfielder playing deep or a midfielder that is also a competent defender to protect the main back line by either getting to the point of attack first covered by a defender or alternatively dropping into the back four to restore it's balance if the main defenders are committed? Specifically I mean not having 5 players who can be by-passed with one lucky bounce of the ball not putting any pressure on attacking players in front of our back 4, whichever way that manifests itself in the concept of a "defensive midfielder". But from your two descriptions I'd say the latter - though by necessity they'd also be playing deep to be able to protect the back line. Not so bothered about filling in the back line itself, but stopping people being able to kill us in front. Though I readily accept that against Fulham it was not stopping Fox having to face 2-on-1s that was the main problem, both goals coming from that (the OG coming from a cross from their right wing going all the way out the other side of the box before the shot came in from Riise, the second goal a cut back from the right wing into the "defensive midfielder hole" near the penalty spot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Specifically I mean not having 5 players who can be by-passed with one lucky bounce of the ball not putting any pressure on attacking players in front of our back 4, whichever way that manifests itself in the concept of a "defensive midfielder". But from your two descriptions I'd say the latter - though by necessity they'd also be playing deep to be able to protect the back line. Not so bothered about filling in the back line itself, but stopping people being able to kill us in front. Though I readily accept that against Fulham it was not stopping Fox having to face 2-on-1s that was the main problem, both goals coming from that (the OG coming from a cross from their right wing going all the way out the other side of the box before the shot came in from Riise, the second goal a cut back from the right wing into the "defensive midfielder hole" near the penalty spot). Basically a front sweeper, we have probably only one that could play that role, Yoshida would be the only one with the defensive nous and mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Basically a front sweeper, we have probably only one that could play that role, Yoshida would be the only one with the defensive nous and mobility. After having watched Yoshida playing out of position at right back I'd be loathe to seeing him out of position again. Admittedly a DM role would be easier to adapt to than at RB but I feel we have enough square pegs in round holes already (and having Yoshida play there would mean having Hooiveld in the team; no thanks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 Basically a front sweeper, we have probably only one that could play that role, Yoshida would be the only one with the defensive nous and mobility. Not so much a front sweeper as a "defensive midfielder"... I'm looking at one of our existing midfielders playing more defensively rather than a defender needing to be regularly involved in the creative passing. As I mentioned previously, we're using possession as a defensive tool by starving the opposition of the ability to threaten us, but we need to be able to do that AND prevent the opposition from opening us up easily as soon as we turn it over - ideally what's required is a player with the ability to hold and shield the back line AND who is capable of passing the ball well to retain possession. I think we've already got a few candidates in the midfield, it just needs to be a change of mentality in there - and a measure of how much removing that additional offensively-minded central midfield player will impact our ability to create chances at the other end. I don't think the defence is at fault as much as some people think (brain farts like deflecting the ball into your own net when under no pressure three times aside), any defence at any level will struggle to contain a team if there's no shield in front of them - pressurising the ball by coming out from a back 4 naturally opens up spaces immediately in front of goal, and by then it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 After having watched Yoshida playing out of position at right back I'd be loathe to seeing him out of position again. Admittedly a DM role would be easier to adapt to than at RB but I feel we have enough square pegs in round holes already (and having Yoshida play there would mean having Hooiveld in the team; no thanks). Let's try considering a minor change to the focus of Davis / Schneiderlin / Ward-Prowse / Cork as the likely solution rather than shunting someone blatantly out of position, especially one who managed to entirely lose the ability to pass just by moving 10 yards to the right on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 (edited) How long can we give them until we can reasonably justify them as being bad purchases? Oh dear. All that time with your head in the stats. book and you've missed some glaring historical examples. Dibden. I won't list them all, but how about us signing a £1 million striker, who managed only 5 goals in his first season.....and didn't score at all in his second. Actually managed to get into double figures with 11 in his third season... and fared little better...(12)... in his fourth. Rubbish! ---------let's sack him many said. it was season number FIVE before James Beattie got really going and scored 23 Premiership goals and only just missed out on the Golden Boot to ....Thierry Henry. (2002-03). Surely we can't expect strikers to score just whenever we think they should. Most of them are...highly unpredictable and inconsistent - by nature. Just for the record .in the above James Beattie example I quoted ..He didn't score his first goal until ....match 10. then scored 11 times in the next 8 games. like Beattie was .......Rodriguez is very new, and still quite young. I think we need to give him a bit more time before condemning him to the scrap heap. Edited 10 October, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 (edited) however, the best example I can give of ....." unpredicatable inconsistancy " was local lad Martin Chivers (1962-1968)............(if you weren't of that generation ...the name means nothing....) BUT in the promotion season 1965-66, he scored 30 League goals in the first 29 games up until the end of February ...then failed to score again in the remaining 13 fixtures.... As I said previously..inconsistancy ..but it wasn't " unpredicatable " to guess that he would move on sometime, and he eventually signed for Spurs in Jan. 1968 for a (then) British record fee of £125,000 and went to to play CF for England in several seasons. So let's not condemn JayRod too quickly... .when he does find some form ..he might surprise a lot of people. Edited 11 October, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 Not so much a front sweeper as a "defensive midfielder"... I'm looking at one of our existing midfielders playing more defensively rather than a defender needing to be regularly involved in the creative passing. As I mentioned previously, we're using possession as a defensive tool by starving the opposition of the ability to threaten us, but we need to be able to do that AND prevent the opposition from opening us up easily as soon as we turn it over - ideally what's required is a player with the ability to hold and shield the back line AND who is capable of passing the ball well to retain possession. I think we've already got a few candidates in the midfield, it just needs to be a change of mentality in there - and a measure of how much removing that additional offensively-minded central midfield player will impact our ability to create chances at the other end. I don't think the defence is at fault as much as some people think (brain farts like deflecting the ball into your own net when under no pressure three times aside), any defence at any level will struggle to contain a team if there's no shield in front of them - pressurising the ball by coming out from a back 4 naturally opens up spaces immediately in front of goal, and by then it's too late. The problem at the moment is that our possession stands at about 40% which means we aren't starving the opposition, furthermore we don't pressure well enough to either get it back quickly or force the opposition to play back into it's own half. We also give the ball away regularly. IMO too many of the midfielders/forwards dive in and sell themselves, consequently are easily beaten opening up gaps in our defence. They don't seem to have much idea about closing up and holding, delaying the play and enabling others to get goalside and cover the attackers. As most teams pass sideways and backwards rather than risk losing possession it allows the team to tighten up. Against Fulham both goals were from initial passes from the halfway line into the corner exploiting our lack of compactness and loose covering, despite plenty of our players defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 The problem at the moment is that our possession stands at about 40% which means we aren't starving the opposition, furthermore we don't pressure well enough to either get it back quickly or force the opposition to play back into it's own half. We also give the ball away regularly. IMO too many of the midfielders/forwards dive in and sell themselves, consequently are easily beaten opening up gaps in our defence. They don't seem to have much idea about closing up and holding, delaying the play and enabling others to get goalside and cover the attackers. As most teams pass sideways and backwards rather than risk losing possession it allows the team to tighten up. Against Fulham both goals were from initial passes from the halfway line into the corner exploiting our lack of compactness and loose covering, despite plenty of our players defending. I'm going to need a source for that possession stat... all the stats I've seen have had our completions high and our possession relatively high - compared to our League position, anyway. Transitions of play are the key to a lot of goals, players can be out of position, teams might have far more players forward than usual (eg Lambert's header v Man U came from Schneiderlin intercepting and Lambert already being in the box for the cross instead of outside the box setting up the crosser, and there were sufficient bodies forward to work the ball to Puncheon quickly without it being the obvious option and easy to defend). As you've said, we tend to sell ourselves quickly, and this happens more often at transitions - Podolski's "free run" for goal 1 at Arsenal being the prime example. We're not great at jockeying, pressing or making things more difficult for the opposition when we lose the ball, basically. Presumably you're talking about compactness front to back (thus providing more pressure on the ball in a congested midfield) rather than width, because sometimes it's our compactness in terms of width that creates the space out wide for the opposition to exploit, repeatedly. One area where I can't figure out the coaching is the reluctance of the full back to move outside the sides of the penalty area, especially quickly enough to to close down a player who has the ball out wide - we were allowing all the space in the world wide of the box in pre-season, and against Wigan, and those areas were exploited again by Everton and Fulham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 Just to summarise the threads to slag people off. So far we've had: New signings Rickie Lambert Adam Lallana Nigel Adkins Jose Fonte Danny Fox Am I missing any? Billy Sharp's got a bit of a hammering for not being good enough for the Prem in a few places, ironically enough yesterday I'm pretty sure someone was saying we should have kept Harding on the same thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 Answers itself doesn't it? It's a bad purchase if they leave without having contributed much and for a loss. Rodriguez might do nothing this season then do well next, in this league or the championship. Players will succeed or fail at their own rate. What does it matter? Do we need some official list of players we can slag off? Or 'write off' as bad purchases. What does it even mean? What do you plan to do with that information? Boo them? Start 10,000 threads on them? Slag them off every time they misplace a pass? As with every season, the only sensible action is to support them throughout the season then see who has done well/badly next summer, who might improve and offer something in the future and who won't. I wholeheartedly agree with this post. Especially the bit where it implies people who boo Guly are thick fookers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 Surely it is nothing more than logic to recognise that the more a team playes together the better it gets as a unit. Understanding and anticipation must come from time together, don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 Billy Sharp's got a bit of a hammering for not being good enough for the Prem in a few places, ironically enough yesterday I'm pretty sure someone was saying we should have kept Harding on the same thread. To be a little clearer, the "hammering" of Billy Sharp was only in response to the couple of posters who insisted: 1) we had made a big mistake in letting him go out on loan; 2) he would have definitely scored + have been more of a threat than JRod has (overlooking any facts about playing on the wing). In the "hammering" that I saw, just about everyone firmly acknowledged that Sharp had contributed a huge amount to promotion last season and is a good bloke. But that does not make him a premiership striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 The question is surely why pay 7 million for a player and then play him out of postion...that kind of suggests the club didn't buy the right player. Before firing off posts why not spend a second or two thinking about what you are writing! It kind of suggests nothing of the kind. 7 million has been spent on a promising young player who adds to the squad we are building as a whole. I personally think he will turn out to be very good indeed but he is learning is craft at PL level. As part of that process we are playing him in more than one role. We are learning about him and he is learning about the PL. So far he has not set the world on fire but I have not seen anyone affordable (Van Persie might well have done better) who would have obviously made a better choice. There is no great issue here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 I'm going to need a source for that possession stat... all the stats I've seen have had our completions high and our possession relatively high - compared to our League position, anyway. Transitions of play are the key to a lot of goals, players can be out of position, teams might have far more players forward than usual (eg Lambert's header v Man U came from Schneiderlin intercepting and Lambert already being in the box for the cross instead of outside the box setting up the crosser, and there were sufficient bodies forward to work the ball to Puncheon quickly without it being the obvious option and easy to defend). As you've said, we tend to sell ourselves quickly, and this happens more often at transitions - Podolski's "free run" for goal 1 at Arsenal being the prime example. We're not great at jockeying, pressing or making things more difficult for the opposition when we lose the ball, basically. Presumably you're talking about compactness front to back (thus providing more pressure on the ball in a congested midfield) rather than width, because sometimes it's our compactness in terms of width that creates the space out wide for the opposition to exploit, repeatedly. One area where I can't figure out the coaching is the reluctance of the full back to move outside the sides of the penalty area, especially quickly enough to to close down a player who has the ball out wide - we were allowing all the space in the world wide of the box in pre-season, and against Wigan, and those areas were exploited again by Everton and Fulham. The stats were from the televised games, eg first half v Fulham only 35% although watching the match it looked better than that. Your last three paragraphs pretty much sums it up. If the team is defensively compact it will provide it's own defence wide by moving across as a unit, with the rotation the wide midfielder on the blind side has to pick up any attempt to switch again eg Chaplow covering Riise which he didn't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK the 2nd Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 In other walks of life, particularly in management, it's commonly accepted as the first 100 days that you have to make an impact in a new role. I guess that would equate to half a season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/premier-league/ballbesitz/wettbewerb_GB1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 Before firing off posts why not spend a second or two thinking about what you are writing! It kind of suggests nothing of the kind. 7 million has been spent on a promising young player who adds to the squad we are building as a whole. I personally think he will turn out to be very good indeed but he is learning is craft at PL level. As part of that process we are playing him in more than one role. We are learning about him and he is learning about the PL. So far he has not set the world on fire but I have not seen anyone affordable (Van Persie might well have done better) who would have obviously made a better choice. There is no great issue here. You shouldn't be spending 7 million on a player to then play him out of postion unless destroying his confidence is your objective. Also why spend 7 million quid on one for the future when we need PL quaility players now. I'm sorry but Jrod is the second most expensive player in the clubs history that comes with expectations (from the fans and club) I very much doubt the club brought him thinking don't worry he'll come good in a couple of seasons. He may come good but probably only playing in his natural postion. If we don't want to play him there and insist on playing him out of postion then we bought the wrong player and should have bought one that plays out left instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 12 October, 2012 Share Posted 12 October, 2012 Before firing off posts why not spend a second or two thinking about what you are writing! It kind of suggests nothing of the kind. 7 million has been spent on a promising young player who adds to the squad we are building as a whole. I personally think he will turn out to be very good indeed but he is learning is craft at PL level. As part of that process we are playing him in more than one role. We are learning about him and he is learning about the PL. So far he has not set the world on fire but I have not seen anyone affordable (Van Persie might well have done better) who would have obviously made a better choice. There is no great issue here. Very good point - which underlines what we are doing as a club. People want results today and yet the Chairman is building a team in the mould of Barcelona which will take a few YEARS. Not every young player walks into a team and makes an immediate impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 12 October, 2012 Share Posted 12 October, 2012 Very good point - which underlines what we are doing as a club. People want results today and yet the Chairman is building a team in the mould of Barcelona which will take a few YEARS. Not every young player walks into a team and makes an immediate impact. All sounds well and good... But how long will a run of 1 win from 7 will go on and shipping goals at an alarming rate before something is done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 12 October, 2012 Share Posted 12 October, 2012 All sounds well and good... But how long will a run of 1 win from 7 will go on and shipping goals at an alarming rate before something is done? 1 win from three winnable games, you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 12 October, 2012 Share Posted 12 October, 2012 1 win from three winnable games, you mean? I hope Nigel doesn't use that logic......"don't worry guys it's man U today we're going to lose" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 12 October, 2012 Share Posted 12 October, 2012 I hope Nigel doesn't use that logic......"don't worry guys it's man U today we're going to lose" Of course he doesn't. But people trotting out 1 win from 7 games which takes no account of who those games were against is a little fatuous. Or are we judging our newly promoted team against the top teams in Europe already? I'm willing to bet that we will give all the clubs who have beaten us a far better game when we next face them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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