Lots of threads on Nigel Adkins but......

[alpine_saint]

Leaving aside the fact that Reading have a game in hand on us and a draw or a win would take them above us.....

 

But no; I don't understand why FF's view of saying where we are after 7 games is unacceptable, but your view of where we are after 7 games as an indicator to the rest of the season and the overall quality of the squad is accurate.

 

OK, you dont.

 

I think you are just arguing for the sake of it, especially as I know you share my feeling that the summer transfer campaign was a failure and has left the squad with severe shortcomings.

[The Kraken]

OK, you dont.

 

I think you are just arguing for the sake of it, especially as I know you share my feeling that the summer transfer campaign was a failure and has left the squad with severe shortcomings.

 

I do agree with the transfer part. However I think you're putting words in FF's mouth if you think he said that where we are is some form of definite indicator for where we'll be later. Lets look at the post you highlighted:

 

if the season closed tonight we would be safe and that for me is enough as things stand.

 

Where does that state that we'll be ok after 38 games? It doesn't. It states that we're currently 4th from bottom, and we're not adrift or even in the bottom 3. Which as things stand is an entirely reasonable place to be.

 

You seem to have taken that as a complete prediction of where we'll be at the end of the season; its actually nothing of the sort, and shouldn't be treated as such. Its a statement akin to "we've had a tought start, perhaps disappointing in places, but we're still well in touch and there are currently 3 teams worse than us, so there are positive signs as well as negative ones".

[alpine_saint]

I do agree with the transfer part. However I think you're putting words in FF's mouth if you think he said that where we are is some form of definite indicator for where we'll be later. Lets look at the post you highlighted:

 

 

 

Where does that state that we'll be ok after 38 games? It doesn't. It states that we're currently 4th from bottom, and we're not adrift or even in the bottom 3. Which as things stand is an entirely reasonable place to be.

 

You seem to have taken that as a complete prediction of where we'll be at the end of the season; its actually nothing of the sort, and shouldn't be treated as such. Its a statement akin to "we've had a tought start, perhaps disappointing in places, but we're still well in touch and there are currently 3 teams worse than us, so there are positive signs as well as negative ones".

 

I havent taken it as a prediction at all, all I've said that its a completely meaningless piece of information so dont understand why anyone can draw any comfort from it. He posted it as a positive, not me, so it is him that must think pointing the fact out is of some use. Which it isnt.

[The Kraken]

I havent taken it as a prediction at all, all I've said that its a completely meaningless piece of information so dont understand why anyone can draw any comfort from it. He posted it as a positive, not me, so it is him that must think pointing the fact out is of some use. Which it isnt.

 

Of course you can take a positive from where your side are in the table. At any point in time. If we were top of the Premier League right now we'd naturally be thumping each other on the back and wondering just what might happen this season. Similarly if we had lost every game 4-0 we'd be expecting relegation and probably looking for a change of manager.

 

We are where we are. Our games played (and the performances therein) are an indicator of what might happen. Just as they are for you to make a statement of:

 

From my perspcetive we have learned a lot about the squads ability to compete at this level in the last 7 games - and it has significant shortcomings...

 

If you can't or won't see the hypocrisy in what you're saying then that's fine. But on one hand you're saying FF's positivity after 7 games is meaningless, yet your scepticism of the squad after 7 games is entirely relevant.

[derry]

The Man Utd commentators on last night's U21 game were really complimentary about us. Apart from the compliments about how well we played and how good the passing was, Paddy Crerand in particular pinpointed how we had played, Man City, Arsenal and Everton away and Utd at home and looked pretty good. He thought the start with w1 d1 l1 was not bad at all. In the last three games, 4 points was a decent return. We scored 7 and conceded 6 which shows a decent trend. Adkins deserves the season at least to manage us he deserves that.

[tajjuk]

I get the feeling that Adkins is starting to panic

 

Why do I say this ??

 

Because it was only AFTER the Fulham game that he comes out and Publicly criticises the Defence ..... (after a very unfortunate OWN GOAL and an equally unfortunate DEFLECTION

 

Why has he criticised them now ?? The defence has been KR*P nearly every match

 

Sorry, but IMHO, ADKINS is the Manager who is responsible for the TEAM, and that team has a Defence as well as an Attack

 

Adkins is responsible for the tactics that the Team plays to. It has been painfully obvious to most that his "systems" of defence organisation IS NOT WORKING

 

It is also painfully obvious that Adkins WON'T change it

 

Playing good attractive Football is great if you have ELEVEN players that can play it. At the moment we don't have a Team capable of that, so, consolidation should be the watchword

 

If he's not prepared to go down that route, then, sorry, but get someone who will

 

Rest assured Cortese will NOT accept relegation as an option

 

I imagine he criticised the defence because they aren't obeying him for whatever reason. They sat too deep in the second half, clearly contrary to what he had told them to.

 

The TEAM's shape on Sunday was very good, on the whole the TEAM defended very well and ADKINS had clearly set them up shape wise very well. Gary Neville even commented after the Arsenal game that the TEAM's shape was fine, it was individual errors by players that led to the goals. There is only so much ADKINS can do, he can't legislate for individual errors just set the team up in the right shape and give each player instructions, whether they follow it it is down to each PLAYER.

 

What exactly can ADKINS do when the whole team is too deep when he has told them to push up and his centre back is wildly slashing at shots that are going wide?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I havent taken it as a prediction at all, all I've said that its a completely meaningless piece of information so dont understand why anyone can draw any comfort from it. He posted it as a positive, not me, so it is him that must think pointing the fact out is of some use. Which it isnt.

 

 

Alpine - I get comfort that after 7 games and a tough start we are currently not in a relegation spot. I would have settled for that back on that hot day in August prior to the Man City game.

[Doctoroncall]

It seems like a few people are getting themselves at it about a situation which doesn't really exist, or if it does only in the heads of a complete minority. If you're searching for 100% of the fanbase to agree with you 100% of the time then you're always going to come up disappointed; there will always be the unhinged such as Dalek or Lard to skew the percentage away from total conclusivity.

 

It's get the first strike in so any sign of disgruntlement can be vanquish I think . As you say a poll of 95% of SWF users are supportive of the manager. We can only speculate what the Chairman can do.

[Tom & Gerry]

i have never been on the bus but at the same time acknowledge how well NA has done. Iam all for stability but if he does not learn from his mistake yet again then i can see him losing a lot of goodwill.

Those lost points due to his bad substitutions could cost us dear at the end of the season.

It is not only Saints fans who could not believe subbing RL in both games, it has been said to me by many fans from other clubs

 

The number of Managers we've had where we've been screaming at them to change it and then with 5 minutes to go and the team behind they make a change. Nigel has taken action before we go behind when he has seen that we have been struggling and as it happens it hasn't worked out. No one can know that the results would have been different if he had made no or different substitutions and I suspect that in most cases they wouldn't.

[Dig Dig]

I imagine he criticised the defence because they aren't obeying him for whatever reason. They sat too deep in the second half, clearly contrary to what he had told them to.

 

The TEAM's shape on Sunday was very good, on the whole the TEAM defended very well and ADKINS had clearly set them up shape wise very well. Gary Neville even commented after the Arsenal game that the TEAM's shape was fine, it was individual errors by players that led to the goals. There is only so much ADKINS can do, he can't legislate for individual errors just set the team up in the right shape and give each player instructions, whether they follow it it is down to each PLAYER.

 

What exactly can ADKINS do when the whole team is too deep when he has told them to push up and his centre back is wildly slashing at shots that are going wide?

 

GOOD post. ADKINS isn't out of his DEPTH as SOME on here like to TRY and peddle. MAYBE one or two of the PLAYERS are though.

[alpine_saint]

If you can't or won't see the hypocrisy in what you're saying then that's fine. But on one hand you're saying FF's positivity after 7 games is meaningless, yet your scepticism of the squad after 7 games is entirely relevant.

 

Nope, dont see the hypocrisy. The difference between taking comfort over what has happened and concern about what will happen going forward is easily explained by taking into account the overall quality of the squad in all positions, and the ability to improve the weak areas in a short space of time.

 

Alpine - I get comfort that after 7 games and a tough start we are currently not in a relegation spot. I would have settled for that back on that hot day in August prior to the Man City game.

 

Fair enough. Hope that it does indicate cause for hope over the next 5-6 months, but I have my doubts.

[Dig Dig]

Nope, dont see the hypocrisy. The difference between taking comfort over what has happened and concern about what will happen going forward is easily explained by taking into account the overall quality of the squad in all positions, and the ability to improve the weak areas in a short space of time.

 

 

 

Fair enough. Hope that it does indicate cause for hope over the next 5-6 months, but I have my doubts.

 

Glad to see you have enough insight into each position within the squad and have a tangeble way of measuring each players potential improvements throughout the season to come to such a conclusion. Quite a talent. Does the new England Football Centre of Excellence know you exist?

[alpine_saint]

GOOD post. ADKINS isn't out of his DEPTH as SOME on here like to TRY and peddle. MAYBE one or two of the PLAYERS are though.

 

For me there are two possible sources for our current predicament :

 

1. NA isnt up to it, is tactically naiive, maybe the communication isnt going too well (he often tries to get the team to puch up and they dont respond)

 

2. We have weaknesses in the squad that all our opposition are aware of, because we screwed up over the summer.

 

Personally think 2 is playing a bigger role than 1, hence I dont want to see NA sacked. But his subs are worrying.

[alpine_saint]

Glad to see you have enough insight into each position within the squad and have a tangeble way of measuring each players potential improvements throughout the season to come to such a conclusion. Quite a talent. Does the new England Football Centre of Excellence know you exist?

 

Any self-respecting Saints fan with half a brain will see that the team issues and lack of improvement in those areas drag well back into last season, so its hardly crystal ball-gazing about the next 6 months.

[Dig Dig]

For me there are two possible sources for our current predicament :

 

1. NA isnt up to it, is tactically naiive, maybe the communication isnt going too well (he often tries to get the team to puch up and they dont respond)

 

2. We have weaknesses in the squad that all our opposition are aware of, because we screwed up over the summer.

 

Personally think 2 is playing a bigger role than 1, hence I dont want to see NA sacked. But his subs are worrying.

 

Adkins isn't tactically inept, his communication is one of his strongest assests.

 

People have over exaggerated the impact of his subs and have chosen to ignore where his subs have made a tangible positive difference plus convienently ignoring the injuries he has had to work around.

 

It's clear we could have strengthened at the back more but no club can completely rebuild in one transfer window. Anyone who tries usually ends up with an unmitigated disaster.

[The Kraken]

For me there are two possible sources for our current predicament :

 

1. NA isnt up to it, is tactically naiive, maybe the communication isnt going too well (he often tries to get the team to puch up and they dont respond)

 

2. We have weaknesses in the squad that all our opposition are aware of, because we screwed up over the summer.

 

Personally think 2 is playing a bigger role than 1, hence I dont want to see NA sacked. But his subs are worrying.

 

The fact that you see it in such black and white, and wrap it up nice and neatly into two little soundbites, makes for a throughly weak argument. There are many other factors than the two you've just mentioned.

 

Actually, I don't know why I bother. You only seem to deal in absolutes, and not in shades of gray. And being as you can't see the blatant hypocrisy in you stance towards FF being content where we are as a side right now I guess I shouldn't bother carrying on, so I'll leave it here.

[alpine_saint]

The fact that you see it in such black and white, and wrap it up nice and neatly into two little soundbites, makes for a throughly weak argument. There are many other factors than the two you've just mentioned.

 

Actually, I don't know why I bother. You only seem to deal in absolutes, and not in shades of gray. And being as you can't see the blatant hypocrisy in you stance towards FF being content where we are as a side right now I guess I shouldn't bother carrying on, so I'll leave it here.

 

Yep. Probably for the best.

[farawaysaint]

Honestly I think more than a few of the negative threads have been started by fishey few fans judging by the Adkins out poll's practically unanimous stay vote.

[alpine_saint]

Honestly I think more than a few of the negative threads have been started by fishey few fans judging by the Adkins out poll's practically unanimous stay vote.

 

I dont understand the mutual exclusivity you infer. That negative posts must come from Skate fans.

 

I think its perfectly OK for some, like me, to make negative comments about the team set-up and performance yet still want NA to stay and finish the job he started.

[farawaysaint]

I dont understand the mutual exclusivity you infer. That negative posts must come from Skate fans.

 

I think its perfectly OK for some, like me, to make negative comments about the team set-up and performance yet still want NA to stay and finish the job he started.

 

Poor choice of words perhaps, the knee jerk Adkins out reactions rather.

[Charlie Wayman]

You need to cut a bit of slack for supporters as well as managers. They/We have been to hell and back since 2004 far more downs than ups and yet a good number have stayed the course with the club, stayed loyal and paid their shilling. Now, after two all brief years of relative success they fear the wheels might be about to fall off again, so naturally they are apprehensive and understandably not persuaded by positive talk about a "better tomorrow's" and "corners being turned soon" especially after such a dismal start. It is not enough to say glibly we've had a tough start so everything will be all right soon, of course we've had a tough start it's a tough league and if we don't compete we'll be out of it.

 

Maybe the players we have aren't good enough, maybe the coaches aren't good enough, maybe the manager isn't good enough, who knows the answer must be in there somewhere but unless the situation improves very soon of course fans will get edgy and anxious and start clutching at straws, there is nothing else they can do but share concerns. It's not that they want Nigel out , probably just the opposite in fact but in their desperation they just want any change that will turn things around.

 

Unfortunately, manager's tend to be all too easily identifiable when things go right so ergo when things go wrong no prizes for guessing where the spotlight will fall first especially since changing players is not a short-term solution.

 

Getting rid of Nigel isn't the solution either but don't blame fans for thinking it might be. He needs time and we need patience and let's hope Mr Cortese thinks this way because we are playing nice football and "the last thing we want now" (nod to Dave Merrington) is some bully buy, brain dead ex-pro shouting the odds about the benefits of hoof-ball. we have brillaint young teams coming through at 18 and 21 level playing the same way as the first team so we just need to stay up in the PL long enough for the plan to mature.

 

I am certain Nigel can do that even if we end up 16th.

[SaintRichmond]

Adkins isn't tactically inept, his communication is one of his strongest assests.

 

People have over exaggerated the impact of his subs and have chosen to ignore where his subs have made a tangible positive difference plus convienently ignoring the injuries he has had to work around.

 

It's clear we could have strengthened at the back more but no club can completely rebuild in one transfer window. Anyone who tries usually ends up with an unmitigated disaster.

 

If that is the case, WHY are the team ignoring his playing orders ??

 

If they can't understand what he says, his "communication skills" can't be as good as some on here seem to think

[alpine_saint]

If that is the case, WHY are the team ignoring his playing orders ??

 

If they can't understand what he says, his "communication skills" can't be as good as some on here seem to think

 

Well, that was my point..

 

Maybe they are just not up to it.

[Saint Charlie]

If that is the case, WHY are the team ignoring his playing orders ??

 

If they can't understand what he says, his "communication skills" can't be as good as some on here seem to think

 

IMO we need a tough old style gaffer like Mick McCarthy or Gary Megson.

 

Players don't understand Nigel, the team don't play how he wants them to and it is still a Pardew/Cortese team IMO.

 

No way that the lads would misunderstand the tactics of the two I mentioned.

 

"Hit the channels"

 

"Play the diag"

 

"Get into him"

 

"Ramirez you tosser, stop playing with flair and freedom in the fluid system you previous manager created, hit the f*****g channels and aimlessly chase Lambert's flick on's you lazy b*****d."

[Dig Dig]

If that is the case, WHY are the team ignoring his playing orders ??

 

If they can't understand what he says, his "communication skills" can't be as good as some on here seem to think

 

Because what Adkins asks of players requires a lot of confidence and courage in their own abilities, it's not a case of not understanding. Obviously the prem is a big step up but you could see Adkins wasn't happy about the team sitting back on Sunday in the 2nd half and made subs when the team weren't doing what he wanted....like good managers do. When we went behind we started playing again and doing exactly as Adkins wanted resulting in us being able to get an equaliser.

[alpine_saint]

Because what Adkins asks of players requires a lot of confidence and courage in their own abilities, it's not a case of not understanding. Obviously the prem is a big step up but you could see Adkins wasn't happy about the team sitting back on Sunday in the 2nd half and made subs when the team weren't doing what he wanted....like good managers do. When we went behind we started playing again and doing exactly as Adkins wanted resulting in us being able to get an equaliser.

 

Right. so the squad arent up to it. What I said in post #64.

 

Only god knows if that confidence is going to come any time soon - if at all (Hooiveld sounds pretty low at the moment for one...) - or in time to prevent our relegation.

[Thedelldays]

Because what Adkins asks of players requires a lot of confidence and courage in their own abilities, it's not a case of not understanding. Obviously the prem is a big step up but you could see Adkins wasn't happy about the team sitting back on Sunday in the 2nd half and made subs when the team weren't doing what he wanted....like good managers do. When we went behind we started playing again and doing exactly as Adkins wanted resulting in us being able to get an equaliser.

 

Maybe branfoot really wanted us to play with style and panache... But the players just did not listen

 

Come on... If we carry on with this format he will be gone... He gets paid a huge amount and would be praised to high heaven when we do well... And when we don't.......

[Dig Dig]

Right. so the squad arent up to it. What I said in post #64.

 

Only god knows if that confidence is going to come any time soon - if at all (Hooiveld sounds pretty low at the moment for one...) - or in time to prevent our relegation.

 

Certain players, doesn't translate to the entire squad.....particularly when were are playing with key players missing.

[notnowcato]

Can the Mods just set a sticky up? Just like the HCDAJFU - Premier League edition one we had in the off season, call it "Adkins - Out" and let the vocal minority spank themselves silly in there.

[Dig Dig]

Maybe branfoot really wanted us to play with style and panache... But the players just did not listen

 

Come on... If we carry on with this format he will be gone... He gets paid a huge amount and would be praised to high heaven when we do well... And when we don't.......

 

Come off it, what did you really expect this season? You yourself were saying all summer how tough this league will be and what a reality check it would be for the fans and how people would quickly start to question Adkins. Now you're all over this place with your anti-Adkins stuff. It's been 7 games FFS, mostly against team everyone would expect us to lose against.

 

All this Adkins out of his depth stuff is complete nonsense peddle by our resident armchair managers who think they know best.

 

Given time you could be right but we could just as easily be fine in this league. It seems you have already made your mind up though which is a shame as after what he's achieved for us. I see that you're already writing off his back to back promotions as something mediocre managers have done though so I doubt this point would make a difference anyway.

[Thedelldays]

You just said adkins being out of his depth is nonsense... Then said it could be true

 

We are making the same stupid mistakes over and over..

 

That is my opinion

[Saint Charlie]

Come off it, what did you really expect this season? You yourself were saying all summer how tough this league will be and what a reality check it would be for the fans and how people would quickly start to question Adkins. Now you're all over this place with your anti-Adkins stuff. It's been 7 games FFS, mostly against team everyone would expect us to lose against.

 

All this Adkins out of his depth stuff is complete nonsense peddle by our resident armchair managers who think they know best.

 

Given time you could be right but we could just as easily be fine in this league. It seems you have already made your mind up though which is a shame as after what he's achieved for us. I see that you're already writing off his back to back promotions as something mediocre managers have done though so I doubt this point would make a difference anyway.

 

 

And the best bit is that despite our start (against some very good teams) we arent even in the relegation zone.

 

We have showed we can score goals - just need to tighten up at the back which is easier said than done, but once we get the back four and keeper more settled that will help and then I would imagine in Jan we will add defensively.

[Dig Dig]

You just said adkins being out of his depth is nonsense... Then said it could be true

 

We are making the same stupid mistakes over and over..

 

That is my opinion

 

I said that making this assumption at this stage of season (if you can even call it that) is stupid when you take everything into consideration.

 

I'd be insterested to know which mistakes we are making over and over which aren't attributed to individual player error's which Adkins can't control from the touch line?

[alpine_saint]

I said that making this assumption at this stage of season (if you can even call it that) is stupid when you take everything into consideration.

 

I'd be insterested to know which mistakes we are making over and over which aren't attributed to individual player error's which Adkins can't control from the touch line?

 

How about dropping the player for the next game ?

 

Oh, we cant, we have no squad depth because we spent 2 months and 12million chasing a single player around Europe. Who is now injured.

[Viking Saint]

I'm already sick of it. Seen people moan for years about lack of good managers, lack of loyalty in football, lack of patience etc from boards and now look at everyone. People criticise modern football for not creating the Ted Bates like figures, but it's clear a huge, dominant part of that is fans like Saints fans now. What would be so wrong with giving the young manager who takes you to 2 promotions a couple of years to develop in the top flight? If he fails and it's relegation, who better to bring the club back up and learn from his mistakes?

 

I'm utterly convinced that over a period of 10 years or so a club giving managers a proper chance will prosper more. You might save a relegation by changing a manager, but that's one season, where does it end? You can't ask for loyalty from the new guy when you so easily replaced the last one, and clearly you'll sack him too if it's not going your way again. Look at QPR now, an utter mess and everything I'd hate in my club. All the premiership experience people wanted to sign, a premiership proven manager, and they're rubbish. They must have signed 3 new teams over the last 18 months. They have a lot of talented players but it's so lacking in any sense of team or stability they'll struggle to get anywhere. Yet technically Hughes took over and saved them. Would they have gone down, who knows. Did they deserve to stay up? It was only fractional at best. But will it benefit them long term, or is it just a huge amount of wasted time and money chasing short term results.

 

Personally, I'd rather see a Saints that means something and have other fans say 'least they stick by their manager'. He's clearly good enough to give proper time. All he needs is some decent support now. As do the players. If you think they aren't good enough, help them out rather than getting on their backs.

 

excellent post mate.....we've had too many years of instability caused by meddling chairmen....let NA get on with it and let's get behind the boys....COYR!!!

[Dig Dig]

How about dropping the player for the next game ?

 

Oh, we cant, we have no squad depth because we spent 2 months and 12million chasing a single player around Europe. Who is now injured.

 

Hooiveld would never have been on the pitch had we not lost Cylne (a very good summer signing) and then Richardson. In any case, Hooiveld himself isn't as bad as that, clealy low on confidence which is effecting his concentration throughout games.

 

Sometimes, whatever what you do in the transfer market, you have periods where certain positions become difficult to deal with. Did Man Utd get their transfer policy right considering they started the season with Carrick and Evans at CB?

[Noodles34]

This is the time to be the club we should be, as the adrianfc post, what will we get from sacking Adkins. Its quite clear that the defence is not good enough, he would know that but we do not know what went on during the summer to counter that, I would imagine for whatever reason (and it is not because we chased one player around Europe - what a a naive view that we spent 24/7 for a month or two dealing with one player, God, some people havent got a fking clue) we missed some targets, Buttner for example.

Do we shove him out now and bring in, I dunno, a 'done the rounds' manager or do we stick with, know that he is tactically a good manager, that the likes of Saints are not going to get Pep or Fabio, so work with someone who can take us down maybe, but take us back up stronger. And that would be the same for some of the players too, they might take us down, but they can bring us back stronger.

And who really gives a **** if we go down? Mainly the people I see around me that I have never seen before perhaps?

[eurosaint]

How about dropping the player for the next game ?

 

Oh, we cant, we have no squad depth because we spent 2 months and 12million chasing a single player around Europe. Who is now injured.

 

Let's just put the signings of Gazzaniga, Boruc, Clyne, Yoshida, Davis, Mayuka and Rodrigues to the one side then, just to suit your argument, eh ??

[tajjuk]

How about dropping the player for the next game ?

 

Oh, we cant, we have no squad depth because we spent 2 months and 12million chasing a single player around Europe. Who is now injured.

 

He was in Bologna, we knew exactly where he was. Also 2 months? jog on.

 

We also spent an undisclosed amount on a promising full back who is also now injured, surprisingly football players like all top athletes in any sport get injured. You can't predict it and it has no relevance. His understudy also got injured in the game, how many right backs do you expect us to have? As Dig Dig points out Man Utd have 5 first team centre backs yet still started the season with a Midfielder playing there.

 

Doesn't matter how much squad depth you have, injuries will still hurt your team. Man City have international footballers coming out of their ears yet looked very vulnerable last season when the likes of Kompany or Yaya Toure were missing.

 

We have signed 8 players this summer, 5 are full internationals, 2 are England U21s. 2 GKs, 2 Defenders, 2 Midfielders, 2 Forwards. We attempted transfers on an unknown number of other players including pursuing a left back for a lot longer than we spent pursuing Ramirez.

[The Kraken]

Alpine has got something of a point. Its not a complete point, as he has failed to recognise the obvious shades of gray in his logic, but its significant enough to warrant discussion. Unfortunately, making his point in the manner that he does and being deliberately provocative and obnoxious reduces it from a discussion to a pointless argument.

 

Hooiveld will be dropped for the next game, surely. In fact I'm struggling to understand why Butterfield wasn't on the bench as an option on Sunday. Butterfield is no long term option by any means, but he's a decent pro and I'm convinced he'd have done at least as well as Yoshida at right back. And I'm also convinced that Yoshi would have done much better at CB than Jos (but then that's not much of a point to make).

 

We have had a lot of injuries, and for a squad that wasn't going to be top 10 anyway, its hit us hard. Cork and Lee out since the start of the season, since then at various points we've lost Clyne, Fox, Morgan, Davis, Ramirez and now Richardson. Those injuries have simply highlighted the lack of depth of the squad in key areas (CB, CM in particular); so the injuries aren't totally to blame, but then neither is the summer transfer activity fully to blame either. Where we are is a combination of things: a tough fixture list; some poor tactical decisions by Nigel; a number of individual avoidable errors by players; some injuries to put second string players into the firing line; and any combination of other factors.

 

We're 4th from bottom. I take solace from the fact we're not bottom, and that we've shown more than just glimpses of what we're capable of doing in most of our games. That said if Reading draw their game in hand we're in the bottom 3; and I heard a stat on the radio yesterday saying that the current bottom 3 sides have yet to win a league game, and at this stage of the season that's the most number of teams to fail to register a win since the Premier League began. So there is room for optimism, but we need to not get carried away by the "out of the bottom 3" factor.

 

I hope we stick with Nigel Adkins. Most of all, I hope he gets a run of at least 2 or 3 games with limited injuries, just so that he can have a fair crack of being judged with as close to his first choice line-up as possible. That really hasn't happened at all yet, and with Ramirez looking a long term doubt it may not for some time.

Edited 9 October, 2012 by The Kraken

[Dig Dig]

Alpine has got something of a point. Its not a complete point, as he has failed to recognise the obvious shades of gray in his logic, but its significant enough to warrant discussion. Unfortunately, making his point in the manner that he does and being deliberately provocative and obnoxious reduces it from a discussion to a pointless argument.

 

Hooiveld will be dropped for the next game, surely. In fact I'm struggling to understand why Butterfield wasn't on the bench as an option on Sunday. Butterfield is no long term option by any means, but he's a decent pro and I'm convinced he'd have done at least as well as Yoshida at right back. And I'm also convinced that Yoshi would have done much better at CB than Jos (but then that's not much of a point to make).

 

We have had a lot of injuries, and for a squad that wasn't going to be top 10 anyway, its hit us hard. Cork and Lee out since the start of the season, since then at various points we've lost Clyne, Fox, Morgan, Davis, Ramirez and now Richardson. Those injuries have simply highlighted the lack of depth of the squad in key areas (CB, CM in particular); so the injuries aren't totally to blame, but then neither is the summer transfer activity fully to blame either. Where we are is a combination of things: a tough fixture list; some poor tactical decisions by Nigel; a number of individual avoidable errors by players; some injuries to put second string players into the firing line; and any combination of other factors.

 

We're 4th from bottom. I take solace from the fact we're not bottom, and that we've shown more than just glimpses of what we're capable of doing in most of our games. That said if Reading draw their game in hand we're in the bottom 3; and I heard a stat on the radio yesterday saying that the current bottom 3 sides have yet to win a league game, and at this stage of the season that's the most number of teams to fail to register a win since the Premier League began. So there is room for optimism, but we need to not get carried away by the "out of the bottom 3" factor.

 

I hope we stick with Nigel Adkins. Most of all, I hope he gets a run of at least 2 or 3 games with limited injuries, just so that he can have a fair crack of being judged with as close to his first choice line-up as possible. That really hasn't happened at all yet, and with Ramirez looking a long term doubt it may not for some time.

 

Can't really say much fairer than that.

[SaintRichmond]

IMO we need a tough old style gaffer like Mick McCarthy or Gary Megson.

 

Players don't understand Nigel, the team don't play how he wants them to and it is still a Pardew/Cortese team IMO.

 

No way that the lads would misunderstand the tactics of the two I mentioned.

 

"Hit the channels"

 

"Play the diag"

 

"Get into him"

 

"Ramirez you tosser, stop playing with flair and freedom in the fluid system you previous manager created, hit the f*****g channels and aimlessly chase Lambert's flick on's you lazy b*****d."

 

 

That's it .... ignore REALITY

 

Everything is perfect at SMS

[Wade Garrett]

I get the feeling that Adkins is starting to panic

 

Why do I say this ??

 

Because it was only AFTER the Fulham game that he comes out and Publicly criticises the Defence ..... (after a very unfortunate OWN GOAL and an equally unfortunate DEFLECTION

 

Why has he criticised them now ?? The defence has been KR*P nearly every match

 

Sorry, but IMHO, ADKINS is the Manager who is responsible for the TEAM, and that team has a Defence as well as an Attack

 

Adkins is responsible for the tactics that the Team plays to. It has been painfully obvious to most that his "systems" of defence organisation IS NOT WORKING

 

It is also painfully obvious that Adkins WON'T change it

 

Playing good attractive Football is great if you have ELEVEN players that can play it. At the moment we don't have a Team capable of that, so, consolidation should be the watchword

 

If he's not prepared to go down that route, then, sorry, but get someone who will

 

Rest assured Cortese will NOT accept relegation as an option

 

Personally, I prefer Adkins telling a few home truths about the defence/team, rather than hiding behind the usual platitudes.

[cambsaint]

The Man Utd commentators on last night's U21 game were really complimentary about us. Apart from the compliments about how well we played and how good the passing was, Paddy Crerand in particular pinpointed how we had played, Man City, Arsenal and Everton away and Utd at home and looked pretty good. He thought the start with w1 d1 l1 was not bad at all. In the last three games, 4 points was a decent return. We scored 7 and conceded 6 which shows a decent trend. Adkins deserves the season at least to manage us he deserves that.

I for one would respect Crerand's views-he was the unsung hero of the great late 60s United team, that I watched as I was there at Uni.

Although Best, Charlton and Law took all the plaudits, make no mistake it was Crerand who made them tick. If he was injured or had an off game so did Man U.

So if he thinks we're doing OK at the moment then that's good enough for me.

Lets hear no more Atkinson out rubbish for the rest of this year.

In Jan he can be judged on his performance.

[Wade Garrett]

You need to cut a bit of slack for supporters as well as managers. They/We have been to hell and back since 2004 far more downs than ups and yet a good number have stayed the course with the club, stayed loyal and paid their shilling. Now, after two all brief years of relative success they fear the wheels might be about to fall off again, so naturally they are apprehensive and understandably not persuaded by positive talk about a "better tomorrow's" and "corners being turned soon" especially after such a dismal start. It is not enough to say glibly we've had a tough start so everything will be all right soon, of course we've had a tough start it's a tough league and if we don't compete we'll be out of it.

 

Maybe the players we have aren't good enough, maybe the coaches aren't good enough, maybe the manager isn't good enough, who knows the answer must be in there somewhere but unless the situation improves very soon of course fans will get edgy and anxious and start clutching at straws, there is nothing else they can do but share concerns. It's not that they want Nigel out , probably just the opposite in fact but in their desperation they just want any change that will turn things around.

 

Unfortunately, manager's tend to be all too easily identifiable when things go right so ergo when things go wrong no prizes for guessing where the spotlight will fall first especially since changing players is not a short-term solution.

 

Getting rid of Nigel isn't the solution either but don't blame fans for thinking it might be. He needs time and we need patience and let's hope Mr Cortese thinks this way because we are playing nice football and "the last thing we want now" (nod to Dave Merrington) is some bully buy, brain dead ex-pro shouting the odds about the benefits of hoof-ball. we have brillaint young teams coming through at 18 and 21 level playing the same way as the first team so we just need to stay up in the PL long enough for the plan to mature.

 

I am certain Nigel can do that even if we end up 16th.

 

Charlie, that's a decent post. I voted yes in the poll, but if Adkins was to be replaced by the sort of manager you're talking about, I would have voted the other way.

 

The system running through the club is the right way to go. Cortese wouldn't jeopardise that.

[Wade Garrett]

I for one would respect Crerand's views-he was the unsung hero of the great late 60s United team, that I watched as I was there at Uni.

Although Best, Charlton and Law took all the plaudits, make no mistake it was Crerand who made them tick. If he was injured or had an off game so did Man U.

So if he thinks we're doing OK at the moment then that's good enough for me.

Lets hear no more Atkinson out rubbish for the rest of this year.

In Jan he can be judged on his performance.

 

Ron?

[RonManager]

Ron?

 

Football, isn't it?

 

You know.

 

Marvellous.

[derry]

I for one would respect Crerand's views-he was the unsung hero of the great late 60s United team, that I watched as I was there at Uni.

Although Best, Charlton and Law took all the plaudits, make no mistake it was Crerand who made them tick. If he was injured or had an off game so did Man U.

So if he thinks we're doing OK at the moment then that's good enough for me.

Lets hear no more Atkinson out rubbish for the rest of this year.

In Jan he can be judged on his performance.

 

Knows the game inside out, a great player and what a playmaker in the days that Scotland produced great players.

[SaintRichmond]

Personally, I prefer Adkins telling a few home truths about the defence/team, rather than hiding behind the usual platitudes.

 

Fair enough, but why has it taken him until NOW to comment on the defence. We've seen how poor it was from Day One

 

It's His team, marshalled by him, and playing to his instructions.

 

If that is not the case, then he's not in charge is he

 

I still reckon we are tainted with the "Reid " influence

[Leicestersaint]

I have been a bit disappointed about the nos of threads started on the likely fate of our manager. Yes he has made mistakes, yes his after match interviews are repetitive and becoming patronising, yes he could be doing better but.....

if the season closed tonight we would be safe and that for me is enough as things stand.

But the reason I started yet another NA thread is I have just watched the U21 game v Man United and very enjoyable it was too (we equalised with the last kick but were far the better side all night).

Who was there watching in the stands? Yes Nigel Adkins, 24 hours after a Prem game. His presence would have been a real boost to the youngsters who performed well (esp Reeves).

 

I am not a happy clappy and I am not trying to overtake NickG as the club's chief propagandist, but I would just like all fans to rally behind our manager for a while longer. Yes not everything is right, his substitutions are questionable etc etc but why don't we all hold fire until at least Xmas and the January window transfer. The fact that he went all the way to Lancashire today to support thr U21s shows his commitment to the cause.

 

I think we got it far from right in our recruitment in the summer but that might not be his fault - back-to-back promotions have earnt him the chance to prove himself without being judged after a handful of games.

 

 

 

 

Yes I completely agree.