saint_sinner Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 The Peter Principle is a belief that, in an organization where promotion is based on achievement, success, and merit, that organization's members will eventually be promoted beyond their level of ability. The principle is commonly phrased, "employees tend to rise to their level of incompetence." Or in Nigels case, he was competent in League 1 and the Championship but now finds himself totally out of his depth without the competence to take us forward. Solution: One way that organizations can avoid this effect is by having an "up or out" policy that requires termination of an employee who fails to attain a promotion after a certain amount of time. Example: A people manager is able to handle the vast majority of his or her current job responsibilities, but does not reveal the skill set necessary for promotion. The people manager possesses the potential to cause harm within the company, by way of preventing those beneath them with higher potential from moving up, as well as lowering morale once such employees become aware of this fact. After yesterday, I feel we are a rudderless ship! So is Nigel the right man for Southampton to stay in this league or is he woefully out of his depth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 The Peter Principle is a belief that, in an organization where promotion is based on achievement, success, and merit, that organization's members will eventually be promoted beyond their level of ability. The principle is commonly phrased, "employees tend to rise to their level of incompetence." Or in Nigels case, he was competent in League 1 and the Championship but now finds himself totally out of his depth without the competence to take us forward. Solution: One way that organizations can avoid this effect is by having an "up or out" policy that requires termination of an employee who fails to attain a promotion after a certain amount of time. Example: A people manager is able to handle the vast majority of his or her current job responsibilities, but does not reveal the skill set necessary for promotion. The people manager possesses the potential to cause harm within the company, by way of preventing those beneath them with higher potential from moving up, as well as lowering morale once such employees become aware of this fact. After yesterday, I feel we are a rudderless ship! So is Nigel the right man for Southampton to stay in this league or is he woefully out of his depth? Like there aren't already enough boring anti-Adkins threads on here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonroader07 Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 I have said in the past that NA is a GREAT Div 1 manager a GOOD Championship manager but I think he is out of his depth, maybe an experienced Director of Football would help (ie Benitez) but I cant recall a team anywhere where a Dir of Football made a Measurable Difference, so I guess we support NA or keep the NA threads going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 So is Nigel the right man for Southampton to stay in this league or is he woefully out of his depth? Is it really that black and white? Is there no grey area at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 Is it really that black and white? Is there no grey area at all? Yes, either he's the right man or he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsAhoy Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 Anti-Adkins threads really are ****ing me off at the minute. You forget 2 seasons of success after 2 months in the Premier League. Football fans can be such fickle feckers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 Yes, either he's the right man or he isn't. What have you seen from coming back from the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 Your solution is a bit drastic isn't it. You are saying you want to terminate Nigel! Aside from that, the example you give is totally irrelevant to the circumstances. I disagree with your conclusions as well. Nice bit of management theory codswallop though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 I would have thought most managers would be out of depth with the squad Mr Cortese has overseen arrive at St Mary's probably with the help of others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisp Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 Time to boycott st marys yet? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 The Peter Principle is a belief that, in an organization where promotion is based on achievement, success, and merit, that organization's members will eventually be promoted beyond their level of ability. The principle is commonly phrased, "employees tend to rise to their level of incompetence." Or in Nigels case, he was competent in League 1 and the Championship but now finds himself totally out of his depth without the competence to take us forward. Solution: One way that organizations can avoid this effect is by having an "up or out" policy that requires termination of an employee who fails to attain a promotion after a certain amount of time. Example: A people manager is able to handle the vast majority of his or her current job responsibilities, but does not reveal the skill set necessary for promotion. The people manager possesses the potential to cause harm within the company, by way of preventing those beneath them with higher potential from moving up, as well as lowering morale once such employees become aware of this fact. After yesterday, I feel we are a rudderless ship! So is Nigel the right man for Southampton to stay in this league or is he woefully out of his depth? I am well familair with The Peter Principle..... having read it decades ago and observed it in organisations that I was employed in (at that time ). However, based on your interpretation of it ....can you explain why the managers of the three clubs beneath us in the League haven't been sacked yet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 Is it just me who is familiar with the short-lived early 90s BBC sitcom of the same name? Not strictly Saints related, but it did have the wonderful Jim Broadbent in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 What is evident, a lot of supporters are out of their depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 What have you seen from coming back from the future? Adkins has white hair, bulging eyes and a silly grin. He keeps giggling all the time and talking to himself muttering 'if only I'd listened to them'. He would have been England's most successful manager ever if he hadn't accidentally left the team sheet on the bus on the way to the World Cup finals in Antarctica 2030. I tried asking him about Saints but all he would say was 'those suntzus never really believed in me'. Then it all went a bit blurry. Sorry, that's all I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 However, based on your interpretation of it ....can you explain why the managers of the three clubs beneath us in the League haven't been sacked yet ? This is due to the Dolson Principle. People can be demoted to their level of incompetence rather than promoted. The higher the level of management the easier the job. The logical outcome of this would be to demote Adkins to the Physio job and put Cortese in as manager of the team. That was what Lowe tried to do so it must be a good idea - or did Lowe just promote people randomly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 The Peter Principle is a belief that, in an organization where promotion is based on achievement, success, and merit, that organization's members will eventually be promoted beyond their level of ability. The principle is commonly phrased, "employees tend to rise to their level of incompetence." Or in Nigels case, he was competent in League 1 and the Championship but now finds himself totally out of his depth without the competence to take us forward. Solution: One way that organizations can avoid this effect is by having an "up or out" policy that requires termination of an employee who fails to attain a promotion after a certain amount of time. Example: A people manager is able to handle the vast majority of his or her current job responsibilities, but does not reveal the skill set necessary for promotion. The people manager possesses the potential to cause harm within the company, by way of preventing those beneath them with higher potential from moving up, as well as lowering morale once such employees become aware of this fact. After yesterday, I feel we are a rudderless ship! So is Nigel the right man for Southampton to stay in this league or is he woefully out of his depth? I hope to god you are a massive troll and that people are not really this idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 The Peter Principle is a belief that, in an organization where promotion is based on achievement, success, and merit, that organization's members will eventually be promoted beyond their level of ability. The principle is commonly phrased, "employees tend to rise to their level of incompetence." Or in Nigels case, he was competent in League 1 and the Championship but now finds himself totally out of his depth without the competence to take us forward. Solution: One way that organizations can avoid this effect is by having an "up or out" policy that requires termination of an employee who fails to attain a promotion after a certain amount of time. Example: A people manager is able to handle the vast majority of his or her current job responsibilities, but does not reveal the skill set necessary for promotion. The people manager possesses the potential to cause harm within the company, by way of preventing those beneath them with higher potential from moving up, as well as lowering morale once such employees become aware of this fact. After yesterday, I feel we are a rudderless ship! So is Nigel the right man for Southampton to stay in this league or is he woefully out of his depth?Look at the table, the mighty Newcastle are 10th with 9 pts. And we are not even in the relegation places being 5 points behind Newcastle - My point is should all Managers within a particular range of points be sacked or should we stop being so negative after every time we lose. Did you really expect to be pushing for a Champions League place this year, or would 4th from bottom be a success? I trust in NA to keep us out of the bottom three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 8 October, 2012 Share Posted 8 October, 2012 Ok, this is a little frustrating as I posted the opening quote earlier today on the board, meaning it in quite a different context (almost the opposite to what that OP implied). The way I see it the squad we had was very good for / played very well together in League 1. Then with only a few changes they played very well in Championship. In each case the reward for the success we had was to be promoted up to a far more difficult stage, until we reach a point where we are no longer top dogs running away with it, and instead for the first time in years find ourselves struggling and battling away for every single point. It was inevitably going to happen, and to quote a current Muse album track, our meteoric rise was . We are having to experience a shift in our attitudes, expectations and position in the system and it's uncomfortable. The players we have are collectively now one of the weakest in the league - understandably given its strength. In my opinion Adkins has not suddenly become a terrible manager after 2 years of genius, but just finds himself playing with a far, far weaker hand (relatively to the competition, no doubt the squad itself has improved) than in the past and has actually got the team making a good fist of most games (probably Wigan excluded), even if the end results so far have been disappointing with a series of defensive errors and inability to see games out. My invocation of the Peter Principle was in relation to the squad through the divisions, not of Adkins to the rank of manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conaero Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Adkins is being given 10 games I feel, you could see something isn't right it in his face on Sunday when we scored and he had a vacant look....the signs are there...maybe the required points tally is unachievable with the remaining games...who knows, but something is weighing heavy on Adkins. It was the same look when we achieved promotion last season. The TV crew cut to the manager, and he had this bewildering look in his eye, same as on Sunday....like he had delivered what he had been contracted to do and now it was all over. Its a difficult one. Adkins is an amazing man and I do rate him as a Champ/L1 manager but, as has been pointed out, time and time again he is unproven in the the Prem. Ok you might ask, how is he supposed to get experience without being there and learning...fair point, but as we all know, there is no sentiment in football. So, the way I see it we have 2 options: 1. Stick with Adkins, go down, stick with Adkins...he learns, we come back stronger. 2. Show Adkins the door and employ a proven Prem manager with no guarantees of staying up. I looked at the Vote thread about should he stay or go, and I mulled it over and voted to go, which I feel ashamed to admit, I think he should be just told, come what may you are the manager for the next 2 seasons and just get on with it, but we all know how Mr C works, he is a hard, hard proven business man and I think he will move for a new manager. One final thing to think about, the consistent and most successful teams in the Prem stick with the same manager, its a fact, something that Everton and discovering now. Chopping and changing is a short term fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 So, the way I see it we have 2 options: 1. Stick with Adkins, go down, stick with Adkins...he learns, we come back stronger. 2. Show Adkins the door and employ a proven Prem manager with no guarantees of staying up. 3. Stick with Adkins, don't go down, get stronger next year. We aren't even in the relegation zone FFS, having played nearly all the top teams already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 3. Stick with Adkins, don't go down, get stronger next year. We aren't even in the relegation zone FFS, having played nearly all the top teams already. And after 7 ****ing games!!! What the **** is the matter with people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_sinner Posted 9 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2012 If it was your multimillion pound business that Nigel was in charge of and he'd made some cataclysmic errors that were there for all to see resulting in 1 point from 4 games that we were winning, what would you do if you were Nicola? Get someone to steady the ship with the ability, competence and experience to take us forward? or stick with Nigel and roll the dice also in response to the 3 managers below us and 1 above, M Hughes - borrowed time C Hughton - borrowed time B McDermott - He'll be fine P Lambert - borrowed time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 I have said in the past that NA is a GREAT Div 1 manager a GOOD Championship manager but I think he is out of his depth, maybe an experienced Director of Football would help (ie Benitez) but I cant recall a team anywhere where a Dir of Football made a Measurable Difference, so I guess we support NA or keep the NA threads going Apart from the fact that you have said it before, on what grounds do you base your judgement ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Mods, can you merge all this lot? We have a dozen threads on the same subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conaero Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 3. Stick with Adkins, don't go down, get stronger next year. That is of course a valid outcome, but as Saint Sinner correctly states: If it was your multimillion pound business that Nigel was in charge of and he'd made some cataclysmic errors that were there for all to see resulting in 1 point from 4 games that we were winning, what would you do if you were Nicola? Get someone to steady the ship with the ability, competence and experience to take us forward? or stick with Nigel and roll the dice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 That is of course a valid outcome, but as Saint Sinner correctly states: But as he hasn't made any "cataclysmic" errors, I'm not sure what your point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Anti-Adkins threads seem symptomatic of a lack of patience/want it now generation - the irony so often lost on these boards is taht when things are going weel, fans want continuity of leadership - the 10 year + manager we are told leads to success... yet the moment a manager needs time to figure it out, earn and gain the epxerience at a higher level, some seem to reach for the knives - which is it to be? This aint about sentimentality - its about a belief that for long term success, you need stabilty and a club that is committed to building a culture, system and style based on a common goal form U12 - to first team - that takes more than 3 years, try 8-10. Therefore it goes without saying that if thats the aim a club and its fans need to grow some and stick with it despite the possibilty of set backs along the way. The only reason for this 'panic' is money - the fear of loosing the sky millions for a season or two and too many clubs wil never do anything better because this fear governs their entire strategy - I like to think we have ball large enough to cope with the difficulties that come with focusing on the long term - stick with it and we may well be surrised as the results it can yield... enjoy the ride FFS and stop worying about what may or may not happen in teh short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Anti-Adkins threads seem symptomatic of a lack of patience/want it now generation - the irony so often lost on these boards is taht when things are going weel, fans want continuity of leadership - the 10 year + manager we are told leads to success... yet the moment a manager needs time to figure it out, earn and gain the epxerience at a higher level, some seem to reach for the knives - which is it to be? This aint about sentimentality - its about a belief that for long term success, you need stabilty and a club that is committed to building a culture, system and style based on a common goal form U12 - to first team - that takes more than 3 years, try 8-10. Therefore it goes without saying that if thats the aim a club and its fans need to grow some and stick with it despite the possibilty of set backs along the way. The only reason for this 'panic' is money - the fear of loosing the sky millions for a season or two and too many clubs wil never do anything better because this fear governs their entire strategy - I like to think we have ball large enough to cope with the difficulties that come with focusing on the long term - stick with it and we may well be surrised as the results it can yield... enjoy the ride FFS and stop worying about what may or may not happen in teh short term. Excellent post Frank ! (apart from the spelling of course:)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Anti-Adkins threads seem symptomatic of a lack of patience/want it now generation - the irony so often lost on these boards is taht when things are going weel, fans want continuity of leadership - the 10 year + manager we are told leads to success... yet the moment a manager needs time to figure it out, earn and gain the epxerience at a higher level, some seem to reach for the knives - which is it to be? This aint about sentimentality - its about a belief that for long term success, you need stabilty and a club that is committed to building a culture, system and style based on a common goal form U12 - to first team - that takes more than 3 years, try 8-10. Therefore it goes without saying that if thats the aim a club and its fans need to grow some and stick with it despite the possibilty of set backs along the way. The only reason for this 'panic' is money - the fear of loosing the sky millions for a season or two and too many clubs wil never do anything better because this fear governs their entire strategy - I like to think we have ball large enough to cope with the difficulties that come with focusing on the long term - stick with it and we may well be surrised as the results it can yield... enjoy the ride FFS and stop worying about what may or may not happen in teh short term. Agree 100% here Franko. Everton did not sack Moyes on the basis of one bad season and look at their team now. I would be prepared to go down with NA and build up again. I believe he is a very good manager and we are lucky to have him. The system is fine, the players just need to get used to each other, the way of playing and improve. We dropped back on Sun as both Jos and Jose were frightened of Rodallega's pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tttdcs Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Anti-Adkins threads seem symptomatic of a lack of patience/want it now generation - the irony so often lost on these boards is taht when things are going weel, fans want continuity of leadership - the 10 year + manager we are told leads to success... yet the moment a manager needs time to figure it out, earn and gain the epxerience at a higher level, some seem to reach for the knives - which is it to be? This aint about sentimentality - its about a belief that for long term success, you need stabilty and a club that is committed to building a culture, system and style based on a common goal form U12 - to first team - that takes more than 3 years, try 8-10. Therefore it goes without saying that if thats the aim a club and its fans need to grow some and stick with it despite the possibilty of set backs along the way. The only reason for this 'panic' is money - the fear of loosing the sky millions for a season or two and too many clubs wil never do anything better because this fear governs their entire strategy - I like to think we have ball large enough to cope with the difficulties that come with focusing on the long term - stick with it and we may well be surrised as the results it can yield... enjoy the ride FFS and stop worying about what may or may not happen in teh short term. ............. and the number of skates posting on this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_sinner Posted 9 October, 2012 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Anti-Adkins threads seem symptomatic of a lack of patience/want it now generation - the irony so often lost on these boards is taht when things are going weel, fans want continuity of leadership - the 10 year + manager we are told leads to success... yet the moment a manager needs time to figure it out, earn and gain the epxerience at a higher level, some seem to reach for the knives - which is it to be? This aint about sentimentality - its about a belief that for long term success, you need stabilty and a club that is committed to building a culture, system and style based on a common goal form U12 - to first team - that takes more than 3 years, try 8-10. Therefore it goes without saying that if thats the aim a club and its fans need to grow some and stick with it despite the possibilty of set backs along the way. The only reason for this 'panic' is money - the fear of loosing the sky millions for a season or two and too many clubs wil never do anything better because this fear governs their entire strategy - I like to think we have ball large enough to cope with the difficulties that come with focusing on the long term - stick with it and we may well be surrised as the results it can yield... enjoy the ride FFS and stop worying about what may or may not happen in teh short term. I agree with you other than to say our long term plan wont work in the championship and 1 win in 7 and -8 goal difference frightens the hell out of me. If we were playing well and losing on the basis of being outplayed and out classed then fair enough, but we are not. We only lost those games because we made tactical changes which left every fan watching scratching their head. I really do want Nigel to succeed but Cortese absolutely will not allow us to go down and come back stronger. There will unfortunately be a point where it wont be tolerated any more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 (edited) Going down and being stronger next year is such a romantic idea that simply would not happen Adkins would be gone before then and so would some of our players We already know there is a loan against next season's money so that would make us weaker than now/last season The fans would be anti Cortese and sms would not be a nice place to go to Club employees would be made redundant... Sections of the ground would be closed off again... To think we will sit by and watch adkins lose every week (hypothetically) just to serve a romantic idea and plain lunacy If we are this bad in 5 games time. Letting in 3 goals... Have about 5 points in total... I would expect adkins to resign personally Look at Bolton... Kept their manager who they loved... Edited 9 October, 2012 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 I agree with you other than to say our long term plan wont work in the championship and 1 win in 7 and -8 goal difference frightens the hell out of me. If we were playing well and losing on the basis of being outplayed and out classed then fair enough, but we are not. We only lost those games because we made tactical changes which left every fan watching scratching their head.I really do want Nigel to succeed but Cortese absolutely will not allow us to go down and come back stronger. There will unfortunately be a point where it wont be tolerated any more What are you on about? We were outclassed by City for much of the game but Adkins made changes which gave us a chance of winning the game. The momentum in the Utd game had firmly swung in Utd's favour before he made the subs, we were simply done by a much better team at Arsenal and Everton have been one the strongest sides to play away in the Prem for a long time. On Sunday he clearly said that we made the changes to help us defend from the front better. The tatic was right but he couldn't help the individual errors which happened after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 What are you on about? We were outclassed by City for much of the game but Adkins made changes which gave us a chance of winning the game. The momentum in the Utd game had firmly swung in Utd's favour before he made the subs, we were simply done by a much better team at Arsenal and Everton have been one the strongest sides to play away in the Prem for a long time. On Sunday he clearly said that we made the changes to help us defend from the front better. The tatic was right but he couldn't help the individual errors which happened after. There is no point trying to reason with some of these WUMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 There is no point trying to reason with some of these WUMs. Ok, you say wum . Who long... On current form do you think adkins will last... By that I mean 4 point from every 21+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 There is no point trying to reason with some of these WUMs. Don't think they are all WUMS. Some just love their opinions a little too much, I bet they love sniffing their own **** and think it smells amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Ok, you say wum . Who long... On current form do you think adkins will last... By that I mean 4 point from every 21+ Yes he'd get sacked but why are you so sure that this will happen? Look at our fixtures between now and January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Don't think they are all WUMS. Some just love their opinions a little too much, I bet they love sniffing their own **** and think it smells amazing. I ask the same question to you On current form.. How long do you think adkins will last... Not how long you want him to last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 I ask the same question to you On current form.. How long do you think adkins will last... Not how long you want him to last I answered before you replied to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 I ask the same question to you On current form.. How long do you think adkins will last... Not how long you want him to last I think that as long as by our 19th league game we have at least 15 points then Adkins would be ok. That is just under the one point per game that would keep us up and with the transfer window to help as well. Any less than that and serious questions would be asked. However, with the run we have up to Arsenal at home on NYD I think we will be averaging over 1 point per game and be on course to stay up. Pretty clear our start was horrendous and performances have been good in patches. As others have said, despite that start we are somehow out the bottom three. Now the next ten games we need to push on and get at least 4 wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Next 3 I can see 1 point max That will be at home to spurs or away to wba West Ham with batter our defence... So that will leave 5 games to get 10 points And so something we have never looked like doing yet... Winning away If we are as woeful I would not be surprised if a changed is made early December....... Just hope things change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Next 3 I can see 1 point max That will be at home to spurs or away to wba West Ham with batter our defence... So that will leave 5 games to get 10 points And so something we have never looked like doing yet... Winning away If we are as woeful I would not be surprised if a changed is made early December....... Just hope things change The thing is you just can't really tell. yes you could be right. Equally we could beat WH and either Spurs or WBA - just wait and see what happens rather than hypothesing and predicting results. If it were that easy then everyone would have put the bookies out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Next 3 I can see 1 point max That will be at home to spurs or away to wba West Ham with batter our defence... So that will leave 5 games to get 10 points And so something we have never looked like doing yet... Winning away If we are as woeful I would not be surprised if a changed is made early December....... Just hope things change No point continuing a discussion based on what you believe WILL happen vs what actually MIGHT happen. What if we get 3 points from those games. Should Adkins still go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 No point continuing a discussion based on what you believe WILL happen vs what actually MIGHT happen. What if we get 3 points from those games. Should Adkins still go? If we change our form over more than a 2 game period... Then of course not But if we are equally as woeful come start of December, after our easiest run of the season.. Then he will be gone imo.. Like it or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 (edited) If we change our form over more than a 2 game period... Then of course not But if we are equally as woeful come start of December, after our easiest run of the season.. Then he will be gone imo.. Like it or not Woeful is the description of someone who hasnt seen us play a lot and just has taken the results and made an assumption. We have only been woeful for the Arsenal game and 15mins vs Everton. And your argument is based on us not taking advantage of playing the lower teams - our four points so far have come against those type of teams so pretty sure our return over the next 7 will be more than from the first. If not then you certainly have to question NA. But until then see what happens ratehr than assuming. Edited 9 October, 2012 by Saint Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 The thing is you just can't really tell. yes you could be right. Equally we could beat WH and either Spurs or WBA - just wait and see what happens rather than hypothesing and predicting results. If it were that easy then everyone would have put the bookies out of business. Then if you don't want to speculate... Then why are you so sure we will be fine.... Nothing suggest that right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 If we change our form over more than a 2 game period... Then of course not But if we are equally as woeful come start of December, after our easiest run of the season.. Then he will be gone imo.. Like it or not I've not said he wouldn't be but I don't think we have been "woeful" and believe that once we have everyone back fit and get some continuity going again, there are worst sides than us in this division. Our fully fit midfield and attack is actually very good I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Woeful is the description of someone who hasnt seen us play a lot and just has taken the results and made an assumption. We have only been woeful for the Arsenal game and 15mins vs Everton. I have seen every game Man City was okay.. To be expected Arsenal... Errr Wigan... Errr Man u.. Very good Everton... Game over at HT Villa excellent 2nd half Fulham... Probably the worst of the lot The defending in every game has been shambolic... It is more than personnel... The marking at set pieces.. The acres of space down the flanks and just allowing teams to stroll through the middle... It reminds me of last time we went down.. No problem scoring but had no chance with a pathetic defence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 (edited) Then if you don't want to speculate... Then why are you so sure we will be fine.... Nothing suggest that right now Im not sure we will be fine. You are sure that we won't be. No point saying he will be sacked if this or if that and then saying that I can't say the opposite in his defense...already you have said we have lost at WH - the game is in 10 days time! Bizarrely negative attitude. We are currently 17th, and if we finish there will have done a great job. We will tighten the defence and pick up more points. (All IMO so if you disagree no problem). Edited 9 October, 2012 by Saint Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonToo Posted 9 October, 2012 Share Posted 9 October, 2012 Adkins is being given 10 games I feel, you could see something isn't right it in his face on Sunday when we scored and he had a vacant look....the signs are there...maybe the required points tally is unachievable with the remaining games...who knows, but something is weighing heavy on Adkins. It was the same look when we achieved promotion last season. The TV crew cut to the manager, and he had this bewildering look in his eye, same as on Sunday....like he had delivered what he had been contracted to do and now it was all over. Sadly, I think this may be close to the truth. Cortese will have set a target and failure will not be an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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