The "miracle" of January 2013

[Legod Third Coming]

I keep reading about people hoping we are still in touch by January next year, when the window opens again, so we can crack on and ensure PL football next year.

 

What is the miracle or footballing epiphany that is going to occur to facilitate this ? Are we going to sign the players we should have in the 4 months of the summer in the space of 4 weeks ?

 

Right now. We are fourth bottom. No one is happy with it, but it's enough. So who need a miracle, you fecking eejit.

[kpturner]

As I said it wasn't with hindsight. We said at the time the defence and goalkeeper werent good enough and Nige agreed as he wanted to improve in every position. It didn't happen whilst we chased and signed attacking players, two of which won't be first choice if everyone is fit.

 

I give up. You clearly are not listening.

[Nexstar]

42, to be precise.

 

Depends when we buy the players.

[The Kraken]

Depends when we buy the players.

 

Indeed; but i was going by the premise of your original post.

 

I thought this thread was about January, not the summer? The point still remains, after January with hopefully these acquisitions we should be a much stronger side.

 

It matters little. And hopefully the scouts will have their targets clearly identified (just as we did with Jose Fonte, who signed in early January) so that we sign players early in the window rather than leave it to the last minute.

[saint si]

It's unfortunate, but transfers require a lot of pieces to fall in to place. Selling club needs to want to sell, at a price we are willing to pay, and then we need to agree terms with the player, whilst keeping within a wage structure so as to not f**k off the rest of the squad. And it's more complicated than that still... Selling club often won't want to sell until they know who they are bringing in or likely to bring in. As the deadline looms clubs (and players) get more desperate and are willing to compromise more. It's a massive game of musical chairs.

 

So it's no wonder it all gets sorted out (or not) in the last couple of days of a transfer window as players shuffle round. Why is deadline day such a big event? So 4 months vs 4 weeks makes very little difference.

 

Our failure to land players we wanted - and there is no doubt we wanted to strengthen at the back - should not be viewed entirely as cortese/adkins's fault. There is always a massive element of luck and the fact remains you can't force a club to sell or force a player to sign.

 

I would (like everyone else I suspect) have liked to see us sign another fullback and a centre back. But I've been impressed with the players we have signed. With a fully fit first XI we are a match for most teams in this league.

[kpturner]

Right now. We are fourth bottom. No one is happy with it, but it's enough. So who need a miracle, you fecking eejit.

 

Why the aggression? It is actually a valid subject for debate IMHO.

[The Kraken]

Why the aggression? It is actually a valid subject for debate IMHO.

 

We'll also be in bottom 3 if Reading get a draw or a win from their game in hand; so LGTC is perhaps the "fecking eejit".

[SaintBobby]

Who has ever spoken about the "miracle" of January 2013?

 

In my view, we were always about 50-50 to be relegated this season.

 

And I stand by that.

 

It's odd that people think relegation would be a complete and utter failure.

 

I think staying up would be an amazing success.

[Turkish]

Who has ever spoken about the "miracle" of January 2013?

 

In my view, we were always about 50-50 to be relegated this season.

 

And I stand by that.

 

It's odd that people think relegation would be a complete and utter failure.

 

I think staying up would be an amazing success.

 

The problem is not everyone at the club thinks that. Whilst Reading and West ham were talking about staying up being the priority our manager and chairman were going on about European football and eventually challenging for the title. Those inside the club won't consider just staying up an amaing success.

[wild-saint]

But why was this not going on from Xmas last year, when we were clearly on for promotion barring an act of God. Lets not forget that we didnt exactly waltz over the line and we lost the title. The weaknesses and the need to address them were there for everyone to see.

 

this post in itself is proof that you make stuff up to suit your whines and whinges. "clearly on for promotion barring an act of god". when did you ever once post anything remotely close to stating that your opinion was that we would be promoted barring an act of god? what a complete to55er you are. thats the funniest thing you have ever written.

[tajjuk]

I keep reading about people hoping we are still in touch by January next year, when the window opens again, so we can crack on and ensure PL football next year.

 

What is the miracle or footballing epiphany that is going to occur to facilitate this ? Are we going to sign the players we should have in the 4 months of the summer in the space of 4 weeks ?

 

What if we are say comfortably clear of the relegation zone and in mid table? What 'miracle' will we need then? One to get us into the Champions league?.

 

We're 7 games in FFS, were not in the relegation zone, we are 4 pts from mid table. Oh and we have had 4 of the toughest opponents you can probably have in this league (except Chelsea). Oh and several teams around us look terrible.

 

This is a stupid thread and literally makes no point. It might have a bit more relevance in January but it's going to look even more stupid by then if we are doing well.

 

You also moan about people 'attacking the poster not the post' but when you keep coming up with the same threads it's not really surprising is it?

[ibizasaint]

I think it's also worth noting who the players brought in over the summer replaced in the starting 11... Chaplow, Hammond, Barney, Guly, Butters, how many of them would you have liked to have seen starting yesterday? Yes its glaringly obv that we need to strengthen at the back.. if we can strengthen at CB and LB in the same way we have strengthened over the rest of park then I feel we will have a team capable of staying up.... I do think that how the team defends as a whole needs to be considered and tweaked as well as just blaming the back 4 as the OP suggests.

 

3 OGs in the first 7 games is pretty unlucky too.

[tajjuk]

Also replacing your whole team hasn't worked that well for QPR and their stand out player so far is probably Taarabt despite all the signnings.

[theyin]

OK, here we go, here is my take on it.

 

Our defensive transfer activity was half-hearted because most of our effort, time and money was ring-fenced for buying attacking players in advance.

 

What do I think the "miracle" of January 2013 will be ?

 

NC waking up and realising his project is heading for a major de-railment unless he opens the coffers for the defensive players that we didnt try hard enough to acquire over the summer.

Whether it is too late by then is, of course, another matter. The only intermediate step that will be available to NC is sadly the dismissal of NA.

 

How do you know this?

 

You know, in life sh1t happens. You learn from it (hopefully), pick up your bits n pieces and move one. I should suspect NC is continuing, hopefully with added urgency, to right the situation and bring in the talent so desperately needed at the back.

 

I dare say they knew where the frailties lie within the squad and did indeed pursue targets but as does happen, sh1t hits the fan.

 

Saying point blank that these professionals had their eyes focused too much on the wrong targets is a bit hard to digest. They tried on the ones we know about, they probably went for other we don't, we ended up with what we got and have had to deal with it.

 

I dare say NC & NA have scouts working overtime in Europe to find the answer. I'd prefer an established player or two from the Prem. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

Until then this forum, the papers and whatever other media you care to take your news from is simply offering conjecture and refutation.

[Legod Third Coming]

Why the aggression? It is actually a valid subject for debate IMHO.

 

It was a term of endearment (Alpine knows how often I have defended his right to freedom of speech) - if he was offended, I apologise (I'm sure he wasn't).

 

But why a need for a miracle?

 

We're not detached from the pack, we're not the worst team in the league. We're well in touch, out of the relegation zone having played three of the top four teams (two away from home) and Arsenal.

 

We know what the issues are (we leak too many goals). We have no issues scoring. We have between now and the end of the season to sort this out.

 

If, after the run we have had we are not adrift, why should we be any worse off by January?

[alpine_saint]

How do you know this?

 

You know, in life sh1t happens. You learn from it (hopefully), pick up your bits n pieces and move one. I should suspect NC is continuing, hopefully with added urgency, to right the situation and bring in the talent so desperately needed at the back.

 

I dare say they knew where the frailties lie within the squad and did indeed pursue targets but as does happen, sh1t hits the fan.

 

Saying point blank that these professionals had their eyes focused too much on the wrong targets is a bit hard to digest. They tried on the ones we know about, they probably went for other we don't, we ended up with what we got and have had to deal with it.

 

I dare say NC & NA have scouts working overtime in Europe to find the answer. I'd prefer an established player or two from the Prem. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

Until then this forum, the papers and whatever other media you care to take your news from is simply offering conjecture and refutation.

 

Wow. Bear does a big jobbie in the woods moment.

 

I said it was my take, my theory. You can either agree or disagree with it.

 

I think there is some serious burying of heads in the sand going on around here.

 

And this "We're not currently in the relegation zone" mantra is simply f**king bizarre. We've conceeded more goals than everyone else. That is a recipe for relegation.

 

As Turkish has said, we were flat-track bullies for most of last season, then played absolutely w*nk against Reading. And the players that caused the problem then are still in our first XI.

Edited 8 October, 2012 by alpine_saint

[Legod Third Coming]

Wow. Bear does a big jobbie in the woods moment.

 

I said it was my take, my theory. You can either agree or disagree with it.

 

I think there is some serious burying of heads in the sand going on around here.

 

And this "We're not currently in the relegation zone" mantra is simply f**king bizarre. We've conceeded more goals than everyone else. That is a recipe for relegation.

 

As Turkish has said, we were flat-track bullies for most of last season, then played absolutely w*nk against Reading. And the players that caused the problem then are still in our first XI.

 

Be fair.

 

We conceded three goals against United - so did Newcastle yesterday.

We conceded three goals against Citeh - so did Sudnerland on Saturday.

We conceded six goals against Arsenal - thats 12 of the 20 goals conceded in three games against Champions' League sides!

And we've just been promoted.

 

No-one is saying we do not have issues in defence but our worst culprit had to come into the team yesterday because of injury and cost us the game (by his own admission on Twitter!) - not my judgement!

 

But there is nothing we can do now other than better training. And by January perhaps we will have the back four back who played well in the second half against Villa!

[tajjuk]

I think there is some serious burying of heads in the sand going on around here.

 

And this "We're not currently in the relegation zone" mantra is simply f**king bizarre. We've conceeded more goals than everyone else. That is a recipe for relegation.

 

.

 

Maybe because we have had a much tougher run of fixtures than anyone else? Yeh we have conceded a lot of goals but 6 were in the same game and 15 of the 20 have been against Arsenal away, Man City away, Everton away and Man Utd at home.

 

Just as a comparison, Swansea have conceded 7 goals at home to our 8 and they have played Reading, Sunderland and Everton at home, easier games than our. Wigan have also conceded 8 at home, are yet to win at home and lost at home to Fulham.

 

Perspective is what is needed, the reason people are pointing out that 'we're not in the relegation zone' is because to not be in the relegation zone with the fixtures we have had and the goals we have conceded is a positive and shows maybe we aren't as bad as people are making out.

 

Fulham have scored 15 goals in the league, only Utd have scored more yet our 'terrible' defence kept them down to a handful of chances and they only scored because of an own goal and two deflections mainly due to our defensive re-shuffle because of an injury. Our 'terrible' defence conceded 18 shots to an Everton team that had been averaging over 21 in every game, Everton had 33 shots against Swansea!

 

As I said perspective. We need to how we do with our full strength team after a decent amount of games where we aren't playing Utd Arsenal and Everton. We have those games coming up, then we will know how good we actually are.

[S-Clarke]

Wow. Bear does a big jobbie in the woods moment.

 

I said it was my take, my theory. You can either agree or disagree with it.

 

I think there is some serious burying of heads in the sand going on around here.

 

And this "We're not currently in the relegation zone" mantra is simply f**king bizarre. We've conceeded more goals than everyone else. That is a recipe for relegation.

 

As Turkish has said, we were flat-track bullies for most of last season, then played absolutely w*nk against Reading. And the players that caused the problem then are still in our first XI.

 

I think the real test is going to come over the next 8 or so weeks. This is now the period where we need to pick up points, wins and potentially clean sheets. Our fixture list has in many ways falsified our position in the league. If anyone else had the start we had I'd expect them to be in exactly the same position to be honest.

 

The next 2 months will tell us all we need to know about this squad, and if it has what it really takes. I think it's too early to be stamping feet and demanding change, but one thing that we need on our side is injuries as we cannot be without our key players at this level.

[alpine_saint]

I think the real test is going to come over the next 8 or so weeks. This is now the period where we need to pick up points, wins and potentially clean sheets. Our fixture list has in many ways falsified our position in the league. If anyone else had the start we had I'd expect them to be in exactly the same position to be honest.

 

The next 2 months will tell us all we need to know about this squad, and if it has what it really takes. I think it's too early to be stamping feet and demanding change, but one thing that we need on our side is injuries as we cannot be without our key players at this level.

 

This oft-used mantra sounded plausible for a time, but then we drew, at home, to an under-strength mediocre Fulham team.

 

Sorry, we definitely need some sort of change already, otherwise we simply wont pull ourselves out of this rut. I am not advocating getting rid of NA, but I would be extremely shocked and disappointed if I were to discover that NA and NC dont have their ears to the ground about possible free agents. We cannot wait 2 months for change, but I do agree the next 2 months will map out our fate for the season.

[S-Clarke]

This oft-used mantra sounded plausible for a time, but then we drew, at home, to an under-strength mediocre Fulham team.

 

Sorry, we definitely need some sort of change already, otherwise we simply wont pull ourselves out of this rut. I am not advocating getting rid of NA, but I would be extremely shocked and disappointed if I were to discover that NA and NC dont have their ears to the ground about possible free agents. We cannot wait 2 months for change, but I do agree the next 2 months will map out our fate for the season.

 

If you're not advocating getting rid of NA, what sort of change do you want? We've got to get the best out of this squad as this is it until January, and to be honest I'm more confident with NA at the helm than someone else.

 

In my opinion the last thing we need during this crucial 8-week period is change. A new manager would have to work with exactly the same players, but would be at a disadvantage of having to learn the entire team.

[tajjuk]

but then we drew, at home, to an under-strength mediocre Fulham team.

 

 

The same mediocre Fulham team that beat Wigan at home? that are 9th in the league and have scored as many goals as Chelsea. that one?

 

Also on 'under-strength', do you not think without Clyne, and then losing Richards in the game, Ramirez, Cork we were also 'under-strength'?

[alpine_saint]

If you're not advocating getting rid of NA, what sort of change do you want? We've got to get the best out of this squad as this is it until January, and to be honest I'm more confident with NA at the helm than someone else.

 

In my opinion the last thing we need during this crucial 8-week period is change. A new manager would have to work with exactly the same players, but would be at a disadvantage of having to learn the entire team.

 

The scope for change is indeed limited. I see only the following possibilities :

 

Managerial change

Identifcation of free agents

Giving fringe players such as Shaw, Dickson and Butterfield a(nother) chance to prove themselves

[S-Clarke]

The scope for change is indeed limited. I see only the following possibilities :

 

Managerial change

Identifcation of free agents

Giving fringe players such as Shaw, Dickson and Butterfield a(nother) chance to prove themselves

 

Dickson and Butterfield, seriously? They're not for this level, let's be honest. They would be torn a new one.

 

Free agents is probably the only alternative change I would advocate at the moment, but if players are still free in October then they're generally not very good.

[Windmill Arm 2]

Dickson and Butterfield, seriously? They're not for this level, let's be honest. They would be torn a new one.

 

.

He's never been to a game, he has no idea.

[London Saint]

Not sure why it's so negative. More importantly, why do people never learn to stop judging everything on the short term? Positive or negative, saints or otherwise. Always the same, irrational and reactionary. Few weeks ago Swansea were amazing, now they're not. It's a little known concept called form. Misunderstand it and you may pay 30m for Andy Carroll.

 

I thought Saints would be fine. I've been surprised how bad we've been. The defence couldn't have been worse really. Hooiveld has pretty much been playing for the opposition. YET, somehow, we're not in the drop zone. Tough fixtures, awful defending, and we're not in the drop zone. That's a huge positive. Even the most critical fan would surely expect the defence to improve from where it is? Either through form, gelling, top flight experience, easier fixtures, confidence or new signings??? Seems unlikely it can get worse, plus there's an experienced keeper lurking to help out.

 

LB and CB needed for January. Nothing more. That's not a bad situation. And we're yet to reap the benefits of Ramirez, who looks top class.

 

So no, I really don't expect we'll go down this season. But if we finish 16th or 17th, we will lose a hell of a lot of games. That's what finishing there involves. Why does no-one remember this?! QPR stayed up and were fcking dreadful. It wasn't some clear black and white line and that made them good and Bolton bad. Just a lot of luck, form, injuries, bad decisions and so on. It's always going to be close down there and as with Saints many times in the past, it'll be the least bad side to stay up, rather than the 'best'.

 

Finally someone talking some sense on here instead of all this hysterical and over the top bullsh*t