The "miracle" of January 2013

[alpine_saint]

I keep reading about people hoping we are still in touch by January next year, when the window opens again, so we can crack on and ensure PL football next year.

 

What is the miracle or footballing epiphany that is going to occur to facilitate this ? Are we going to sign the players we should have in the 4 months of the summer in the space of 4 weeks ?

[Shalmaneser]

give it a rest

[The Kraken]

I keep reading about people hoping we are still in touch by January next year, when the window opens again, so we can crack on and ensure PL football next year.

 

What is the miracle or footballing epiphany that is going to occur to facilitate this ? Are we going to sign the players we should have in the 4 months of the summer in the space of 4 weeks ?

 

Hope so.

[trousers]

[alpine_saint]

Hope so.

 

If we manage it, it will demonstrate what an utter f**k-up our transfer activity over the summer was.

[kpturner]

The miracle will be if we find we have the financial muscle to make any significant signings. I cannot help thinking we have spent the money earmarked for this season already. Seems staggering to me that £30m was not enough to make us a solid unit..... been away from the EPL too long obviously.

[Turkish]

 

:lol:

[alpine_saint]

The miracle will be if we find we have the financial muscle to make any significant signings. I cannot help thinking we have spent the money earmarked for this season already. Seems staggering to me that £30m was not enough to make us a solid unit..... been away from the EPL too long obviously.

 

I agree. And with Ramirez now out for an unspecified period (I know its hindsight), we really look like we made some odd priorities.

[The Kraken]

The miracle will be if we find we have the financial muscle to make any significant signings. I cannot help thinking we have spent the money earmarked for this season already. Seems staggering to me that £30m was not enough to make us a solid unit..... been away from the EPL too long obviously.

 

Just shy of £25M of that went on an attacking midfielder and two strikers. The rest was used to make us a solid unit, so its perhaps hardly a surprise.

[badgerx16]

The 'miracle' of January 2013 - Alpine Saint will start a "positive" thread ?

[alpine_saint]

The 'miracle' of January 2013 - Alpine Saint will start a "positive" thread ?

 

The usual diversion, play the man and not the post, try to get a rise out of him.

 

But still no sensible responses about how January is going to be amazingly different from the summer, I note. I thought the excuse was that there are no PL-standard CBs available ? And that is going to magically change in 3 months time, is it ?

[Born In The 80s]

When you come up, it is very difficult to predict which players will make the step up. Look at Jose Fonte and Jos Hoovield. The vast majority of our fan base thought Fonte would be really out his depth and Jos would cope pretty well. It's been the total opposite, with Fonte looking better and better after every game and Hoovield struggling badly. You're never totally sure how inexperienced players will do until they are given the opportunity.

 

By January, we should be able to assess the squad's ability much better. For me, it is still early days, but i've been pretty surprised with players who have stepped up (Fonte and Punch) and players who haven't done the business (Hoovield amongst others).

 

I'm amazed people thought we would come up and play teams off the park like we've been doing the last 2 years. Every single game is tough in this league.

[Chez]

If we manage it, it will demonstrate what an utter f**k-up our transfer activity over the summer was.

[alpine_saint]

I dont buy this "experience" argument.

 

A lot of people are posting platitudes about still being in touch in January. The significant event of January is a re-opening of the transfer window. Which means those posting the message are expecting us to suddenly close out deals we screwed up or overlooked during the summer. Experience builds up over time, something isnt suddenly going to click in January.

[alpine_saint]

Can someone please explain why pictures of Bill Murray render the point somehow irrelevant ?

[kpturner]

Just shy of £25M of that went on an attacking midfielder and two strikers. The rest was used to make us a solid unit, so its perhaps hardly a surprise.

Since we allegedly were in for a defender or two (in addition to Buttner) I would love to know what sort of money we were bidding. You'd like to think it would be still available, unless that is what the loan is for.

[The Kraken]

Since we allegedly were in for a defender or two (in addition to Buttner) I would love to know what sort of money we were bidding. You'd like to think it would be still available, unless that is what the loan is for.

 

Buttner was rumoured to be around £3M. Also only rumours but we were supposedly scared off by £6M for Scott Dann. Yet (again rumours) we were interested in that Middlebrough defender before he got crocked at £6M.

 

In short; who knows?

[cynicalsaint]

so,

 

if we strengthen in Jan and survive it's simply a case of we fooked up the summer transfer window; and

 

if we dont strengthen in Jan and dont survive it's a case of we fooked up the summer transfer window?

 

it's almost like you want us to fail Alpine.

 

I don't post very often - save it for compete f***tards who clearly dont want us to succeed.

 

seven games in and we are out of the drop zone - had a tough start and played some good stuff.

 

we might stay up / we might go down - who knows.

 

what i do know is that you are an attention seeking drama queen.

 

why dont you just STFU and leave the forums to people who actually attend a game or two?

[latter day saint]

Can someone please explain why pictures of Bill Murray render the point somehow irrelevant ?

[Turkish]

Buttner was rumoured to be around £3M. Also only rumours but we were supposedly scared off by £6M for Scott Dann. Yet (again rumours) we were interested in that Middlebrough defender before he got crocked at £6M.

 

In short; who knows?

 

And the fella from Rennes for £6m as well.

[alpine_saint]

so,

 

if we strengthen in Jan and survive it's simply a case of we fooked up the summer transfer window; and

 

if we dont strengthen in Jan and dont survive it's a case of we fooked up the summer transfer window?

 

it's almost like you want us to fail Alpine.

 

I don't post very often - save it for compete f***tards who clearly dont want us to succeed.

 

seven games in and we are out of the drop zone - had a tough start and played some good stuff.

 

we might stay up / we might go down - who knows.

 

what i do know is that you are an attention seeking drama queen.

 

why dont you just STFU and leave the forums to people who actually attend a game or two?

 

Why dont you return to your habit of not posting, seeing as you have written nothing of value here.

[trousers]

Can someone please explain why pictures of Bill Murray render the point somehow irrelevant ?

 

It was either that or dig out the equivalent threads from the last 8 seasons... I just happened to go for the side-splitting comedy option to keep Turkish happy... ;-)

[alpine_saint]

It was either that or dig out the equivalent threads from the last 8 seasons... I just happened to go for the comedy option to keep Turkish happy... ;-)

 

Why does an issue encountered by the club in previous seasons render the point irrelevant for this season ?

[cynicalsaint]

Why dont you return to your habit of not posting, seeing as you have written nothing of value here.

 

ooh get her.

 

what was the point you were trying to make with the original post?

 

It's lost on me - i've tried to see something constructive but can't find it.

[alpine_saint]

ooh get her.

 

what was the point you were trying to make with the original post?

 

It's lost on me - i've tried to see something constructive but can't find it.

 

It was an open question seeking opinions about what amazing event is going to happen in January, that saves our season, that didnt happen over the third of a year when transfers were permitted and hasnt happened since the season started.

[Nexstar]

Very difficult to judge personnel when moving up from the Championship to the PL. Attacking wise we've done well, just been caught short at the back somewhat.

 

January should see a CB and a LB brought in and from then on we will be a very solid unit.

[cynicalsaint]

Of course - and there was me thinking you were posting a snidey / cheap shot / told you so kind of comment.

 

So sorry for misrepresenting you Apline - with your track record I should have known that wasn't your 'style'

[pingwing]

Well we have 3 more months of sensible and adult scouting to do, along with everything we have done in the last few months, to identify players that are better than what we have, not just people to bring in competition or anything silly but players who are better.

 

The 4 week window is just when we can sign them. There is plenty of time to sort out who we want and what we need to add to the squad.

[alpine_saint]

Very difficult to judge personnel when moving up from the Championship to the PL. Attacking wise we've done well, just been caught short at the back somewhat.

 

January should see a CB and a LB brought in and from then on we will be a very solid unit.

 

The CB and LB that we apparently tried so hard to acquire over the summer (hence the weaknesses were already known, we didnt need PL games to judge) and failed to do so ?

 

For me, all the indicators suggest we didnt put the money or effort into the defence that we should have over the summer.

[S-Clarke]

I'm one of those who said what you stated Alpine. It's easy to see why though, some of our players are unfortunately not good enough.

 

I'm sure this has surprised Adkins to a degree, as I thought certain players would adjust better than they have - and they deserved a crack, but alas they are very much struggling. I'm also not of the opinion that we neglected the defense in the summer, it was the area we focused most of our time on as this area brought about most of the links (GK/s, CB,s, RB's, LB's). Unfortunately we didn't seem to be able to secure who we really wanted, apart from Clyne and Yoshida.

 

The issue you have though, is if the player you really want isn't available and the alternatives aren't quite as good - and potentially cost more what do you do? Overpay for Dann for e.g, or bide your time and wait for the other player to become available - and I'm sure this was done on the thought that some of our players would adjust better than they have.

 

Really though, all we need is an additional LB - basically a clone of Clyne, and an absolute beast of a CB with a decent turn of pace. If I'm being ultra picky, I'd like us a right winger as well. Oh, and we need to hope that we're lucky with injuries otherwise we've got no chance.

[alpine_saint]

Well we have 3 more months of sensible and adult scouting to do, along with everything we have done in the last few months, to identify players that are better than what we have, not just people to bring in competition or anything silly but players who are better.

 

The 4 week window is just when we can sign them. There is plenty of time to sort out who we want and what we need to add to the squad.

 

But why was this not going on from Xmas last year, when we were clearly on for promotion barring an act of God. Lets not forget that we didnt exactly waltz over the line and we lost the title. The weaknesses and the need to address them were there for everyone to see.

[Nexstar]

The CB and LB that we apparently tried so hard to acquire over the summer (hence the weaknesses were already known, we didnt need PL games to judge) and failed to do so ?

 

For me, all the indicators suggest we didnt put the money or effort into the defence that we should have over the summer.

 

I thought this thread was about January, not the summer? The point still remains, after January with hopefully these acquisitions we should be a much stronger side.

[The Kraken]

I thought this thread was about January, not the summer? The point still remains, after January with hopefully these acquisitions we should be a much stronger side.

 

Good job that only around 23 or 24 games will have elapsed by then.

[Saint Troy]

Are we never signing players again because we didn't sign enough this summer? That's a shame

[alpine_saint]

I thought this thread was about January, not the summer? The point still remains, after January with hopefully these acquisitions we should be a much stronger side.

 

It is about January. But I dont get why some of you are insistent that January will be different from the summer. I'd go as far as to suggest that some on here are inferring the players we failed to get in the summer will be picked up in January like going to Tesco to get a bag of satsumas...

[RobM]

It was an open question seeking opinions about what amazing event is going to happen in January, that saves our season, that didnt happen over the third of a year when transfers were permitted and hasnt happened since the season started.

 

What do you think wen't so wrong in the summer window? You, we, none of us know anything other than we attempted to sign more defensive players than we did, but failed in doing so. We do not know why. Since this is all we know, the only thing that could differ is we actually sign the defensive players we want.

 

It's not amazing, nor a miracle, but happens in every club, in every league that operates the same transfer windows and limitations. The reason the January window exists is to allow clubs to sign players to strengthen their squad, which as you say yourself, we really need to do.

 

We don't know why we didn't land all of our targets in Jan, we'll never know. We now know better than ever how we need to strengthen, but cannot do so until Jan. That's why it's being hailed as an important time - we simply cannot bring in the quality and experience we want until then.

 

You're the only person referring to it as a miracle or amazing, you're the only person talking about NC's magic wand and you're the only person suggesting the failed targets from the summer will be attempted again in Jan (I've not seen anybody else say this). Everyone else seems to be aware that we need better defensive players, we were unable to sign as many as we needed in the summer, so our next chance is Jan.

[alpine_saint]

What do you think wen't so wrong in the summer window? You, we, none of us know anything other than we attempted to sign more defensive players than we did, but failed in doing so. We do not know why. Since this is all we know, the only thing that could differ is we actually sign the defensive players we want.

 

It's not amazing, nor a miracle, but happens in every club, in every league that operates the same transfer windows and limitations. The reason the January window exists is to allow clubs to sign players to strengthen their squad, which as you say yourself, we really need to do.

 

We don't know why we didn't land all of our targets in Jan, we'll never know. We now know better than ever how we need to strengthen, but cannot do so until Jan. That's why it's being hailed as an important time - we simply cannot bring in the quality and experience we want until then.

 

You're the only person referring to it as a miracle or amazing, you're the only person talking about NC's magic wand and you're the only person suggesting the failed targets from the summer will be attempted again in Jan (I've not seen anybody else say this). Everyone else seems to be aware that we need better defensive players, we were unable to sign as many as we needed in the summer, so our next chance is Jan.

 

OK, here we go, here is my take on it.

 

Our defensive transfer activity was half-hearted because most of our effort, time and money was ring-fenced for buying attacking players in advance.

 

What do I think the "miracle" of January 2013 will be ?

 

NC waking up and realising his project is heading for a major de-railment unless he opens the coffers for the defensive players that we didnt try hard enough to acquire over the summer.

 

Whether it is too late by then is, of course, another matter. The only intermediate step that will be available to NC is sadly the dismissal of NA.

[Jonnyboy]

 

Sorry gotta ask - which film?

[RobM]

OK, here we go, here is my take on it.

 

Our defensive transfer activity was half-hearted because most of our effort, time and money was ring-fenced for buying attacking players in advance.

 

What do I think the "miracle" of January 2013 will be ?

 

NC waking up and realising his project is heading for a major de-railment unless he opens the coffers for the defensive players that we didnt try hard enough to acquire over the summer.

 

Whether it is too late by then is, of course, another matter. The only intermediate step that will be available to NC is sadly the dismissal of NA.

 

It's hard to disagree with your sentiment, knowing sweet-FA about what went on behind the scenes. I hope the fact we signed two defensive players of good quality (Clyne and Yoshida), tried to sign another of good quality (Buttner) as well as others we were linked with, plus the fact we signed Davis (a holding midfielder) showed we didn't solely concentrate on attacking players. But the facts are clear, we bought more attacking players than we needed to and not enough defensive players.

 

I think NC is well awake and aware though, but he can't do anything about it. I'd also hope he realises a manager can only work with the resources given to him and changing manager doesn't address the fact our defensive players aren't quite good enough for this level. If our problem was NA using good Premiership players incorrectly, changing managers seems sensible, but it seems more the case that players like Jos, Richardson, Fox etc simply aren't Premiership defenders and those that seem good enough lack Premiership-specific experience. A new manager won't change this, but signing Premiership defenders in Jan will do.

[kpturner]

It was an open question seeking opinions about what amazing event is going to happen in January, that saves our season, that didnt happen over the third of a year when transfers were permitted and hasnt happened since the season started.

 

I think that, if anything, five months of genuine experience of playing at this level will have focused the minds of those holding the purse strings on what we need to throw money at. In the Summer, it was more speculative guesswork perhaps.

[Turkish]

I think that, if anything, five months of genuine experience of playing at this level will have focused the minds of those holding the purse strings on what we need to throw money at. In the Summer, it was more speculative guesswork perhaps.

 

Seriously? Most people I go with could see that the entire back five weren't good enough. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Last season we were great defensively when we had 70% possession and were all over teams. When we were under pressure we often conceded and those goals were often due to sloppy mistakes. That didnt bode well for the premier league as we won't get the majority of possession in a lot of games and will be under pressure a fair bit and it's coming home to roost now. Nige seemed to agree as he signed a right back, a goalkeeper, a centre back, tried to get a left back and is also on record as saying he wanted two centre halves and two keepers. So of the 6 signings he wanted to make he got 3 and a panic free transfer goalkeeper signed when it was clear that KD wasn't up to it. So it wasn't a case of speculation and guess work, the manager identified the areas that needed improving and for whatever reason it didn't happen,whilst we signed 2 strikers for a combined fee of £10m that won't get near a start when everyone is fit.

[badgerx16]

The usual diversion, play the man and not the post, try to get a rise out of him.

 

Alps, I'm sure you're a very nice bloke, but you display a marked 'glass half empty' personality on this forum.

 

But still no sensible responses about how January is going to be amazingly different from the summer, I note. I thought the excuse was that there are no PL-standard CBs available ? And that is going to magically change in 3 months time, is it ?

 

January probably won't be the start of an 'amazing' transformation, but what we actually require at that time will depend on where we are and how the squad has settled ( hopefully ) over the next 3 months. At the start of the season I think many people had unduly optimistic ambitions, especially once the fixture list was published. We currently find ourselves 1 place above the relegation slots, and if at the end of the year that's where we finish I believe it will have been a good season, though I hope we will be higher up the table. In January we will need to swap out a couple more of our NPC standard players, and replace them with something better, but we won't be the only team chasing them, so we need to be firm in our resolve in nailing down our targets ( and hopefully they won't get poached next time by Man Utd ). As for actually identifying them, I'm not sure we on here would get it right if we listed the names - how many of us would have named Ramirez or Yoshida as a viable target back in June ? But I am sure that NA hs told NC who he would prefer, and NC is clear as to how much he is willing to spend.

Edited 7 October, 2012 by badgerx16

[Nexstar]

It is about January. But I dont get why some of you are insistent that January will be different from the summer. I'd go as far as to suggest that some on here are inferring the players we failed to get in the summer will be picked up in January like going to Tesco to get a bag of satsumas...

 

We don't need a load more players in January. GK and all positions infront of defence are fine. We just simply need 2 players. I did not suggest we'd go for the same players. In fact, which players do you know we went in for? Or are you just going on 2 lines in the Daily Mirror rumours column?

[Nexstar]

Good job that only around 23 or 24 games will have elapsed by then.

 

Would be 50+ points to play for.

[The Kraken]

Would be 50+ points to play for.

 

42, to be precise.

[Whitey Grandad]

42, to be precise.

 

The answer to everything.

[kpturner]

Seriously?.........So it wasn't a case of speculation and guess work, the manager identified the areas that needed improving and for whatever reason it didn't happen,whilst we signed 2 strikers for a combined fee of £10m that won't get near a start when everyone is fit.

It is easy with hindsight to see that most people's speculation about our defensive frailties have been proven to be correct. However, we may have found that we could defend adequately but not score goals. It is a moot point - I was merely offering a suggestion to Alpine as to what the miracle might be: like somebody holding the purse strings realising that the £10m you speak of would have been better spent elsewhere.

[sotonist]

Sorry gotta ask - which film?

 

Garfield

[Turkish]

It is easy with hindsight to see that most people's speculation about our defensive frailties have been proven to be correct. However, we may have found that we could defend adequately but not score goals. It is a moot point - I was merely offering a suggestion to Alpine as to what the miracle might be: like somebody holding the purse strings realising that the £10m you speak of would have been better spent elsewhere.

 

As I said it wasn't with hindsight. We said at the time the defence and goalkeeper werent good enough and Nige agreed as he wanted to improve in every position. It didn't happen whilst we chased and signed attacking players, two of which won't be first choice if everyone is fit.

[SuperSAINT]

Really though, all we need is an additional LB - basically a clone of Clyne, and an absolute beast of a CB with a decent turn of pace. If I'm being ultra picky, I'd like us a right winger as well. Oh, and we need to hope that we're lucky with injuries otherwise we've got no chance.

 

This, exactly this.