How many have we sold for Fulham then?

[lordswoodsaints]

The simple brutal truth is success = more fans and less success = less fans

Nothing we or anyone can do can change that,it's written in stone.

We have been successful in getting to the prem but we haven't had too much success whilst we've been here so crowds of 25k+ are about right for us really.

Anyway I'm happy with less fans as I get more elbow room and less queuing,if you want big crowds go and sit in west quay on a Saturday after everybody gets paid.

[Frank's cousin]

This is my point aintforever, why would we spend £15-£20m building extensions and extra seats, then slash prices to sell them when we can't sell the ones we we've got.

 

Question - do we not sell the ones we have becaise there is no interest or because the majority of those left overs are too expensive (in an economic climate where corporates are simply not shifting either)?

[The Kraken]

@Turkish & Kraken. Go read the Villa game thread and your see at least 2 in that thread posting who were not at the game but yet have been negative about it

 

Secondly your right attendances have not been full sell outs. That can be seen as a bit crap considering we are in the pl.

 

However wouldnt the best way to judge how our attendences are be to compare them to everyone else in the league?

Based on that rule we are currently the 12th most followed club in the country. How can you guys not be happy about that?

 

Personally I don't think you have to be at the game to comment about the attendance. And that's all it is commenting; not moaning. I was at the Villa game though, just to clarify.

 

The whole debate about attendances is not to do with how well off against other sides we are, though. It's around if and when we'll need to increase the capacity of St. Marys. As I've said numerous times in this thread already; I've not come across many people (myself and Turkish included) who haven't agreed with the idea that we could need a bigger stadium in the upcoming years. Hardly anyone has ruled out that possibility. The questions have always been; when will that happen, if it does? And what should the new potential capacity be? As such, it's only natural that we should look to analyse what our fanbase is right now. How many times do we sell out? How far in advance of games do we sell out? If we don't sell out, how close were we?

 

All those are questions that the club will be asking right now as they progress into an analysis of stadium capacity potential. So why on earth should fans not do the same? I don't get why you and so many others, just because we're not yet selling out, consider that to be moaning. The Man Utd game sold out regular seats nearly 2 weeks in advance; is it "moaning" to bring that up in the context of this thread? Saying that a particular attendance is "disappoiting", as I have done before, is simply a comment that I thought we'd attract more fans. It's not, as Frank's Cousin wants to dress it up, an attack on the club or Cortese.

[Turkish]

No. 'slashing' prices is ridiculous and is used to describe discounting against an original much higher price.... as you well know not what the Bayern model is about. If you dont understand the concept (which is quite simple)' date=' not my problem... but you understand it very well, but seem pleased to waste time misinforming others as to what it is, in an effort to pick holes where there are none... for the record, you dont start with a ticket price, you start with target net reveune (including cost of build) that is ABOVE that which we have now... it really is not that difficult to grasp so not sure what your problem is. Whether the will ever consider it is another matter, I dont knwo what their plans are, but thsi discussion started as one about whether there was ever justification for investing earlier than waiting for year on year sell outs - you dont think so, others believe a bviable business model exists to do so...[/quote']

 

Okay let me out it another way. Would it be fair to say under you plans some areas of our newly extended 45,000 stadium, some tickets will be cheaper than the current ticket price in our 32,000 stadium, perhaps significantly cheaper than the current price?

[Frank's cousin]

Frank; it seems the only one banging on about it being Cortese's fault is you.

 

Per my post above; we may need a bigger stadium in a few years, hardly anyone has disputed that. So its valid to find out what our fanbase is right now; as starting point for that. You can point and sneer all you like at the discussion, but it does you or your opinion no favours whatsoever and just comes across as petty sniping.

 

I find that a little rich, considering wher the majority of the sneering eminates from - and you are missing the point. In the previous debates some (not me ) were trying to make a case of expansion as we would have 1000's left without tickets thsi year, and quite rightly its clear that is not the case at this time - no big deal.

 

The discussion moved on to whether there were genuine business models that might work to attract greater numbers (WITHOUT compromising brand value, or increased revenue necessary to not only cover investment cost but actually increase total revenue) - which I believe there are and have merely used other clubs where such models are empoyed as examples... so not sure what is so controvercial about that.

 

Finally you talk about 'what our fanbase' is right now - well on what criteria are you judging the size of the fanbase? - Yes the obvious one is current attendance at the current price point - but you know as well as anyone that there are multiple factors that influence this - and right now the biggest is the lack of spare cash many folk have. You could just as easily judge it on the numbers who go to say more than 5 games or more a season, or 10 games or more a season - and we would probably be looking at a figure closer to 40k than 30 on those criteria (if our database is anything to go by).... The billion dollar question is how you get those who go to 5 games a season to go to 10, or those who go to 10 to go to 15 or buy an ST. That is where price sensitivity, quality of product, success come into the picture - I would maintain the single biggest factor is the cost.

 

I have feck all idea if NC and the powers that be would ever consider a model that broadens the price and thus increases access to a broader demographic on a more consistent basis - we dont nee dto do this right now as 29-30k at the current price is obviously sufficient for the budget, but when considering expansion, you have more options... the Fry/Turks one in which you wait for demand to far outstrip supply and then use that as a basis for investmnet, or one in which you generate extra demand through increasong affordability - both are valid approaches...and that is all I have ever been posting about

[The Kraken]

Question - do we not sell the ones we have becaise there is no interest or because the majority of those left overs are too expensive (in an economic climate where corporates are simply not shifting either)?

 

So far its both. The Man United game sold out regular seats but not corporate ones. Wigan, Villa and Fulham will have not sold out the most expensive seats (corporate) and also the cheapest seats (Chapel).

[Turkish]

Question - do we not sell the ones we have becaise there is no interest or because the majority of those left overs are too expensive (in an economic climate where corporates are simply not shifting either)?

 

Considering there were few complaints about the prices when they were announced, apart from family tickets which is another story, it isn't price. For example my season ticket first season at SMS was £450, this season it was £575, that's only an increaseof £12 per season since 2001, so it isn't price for the man on the street, after all we were told in the summer we live in an affluent area and people will be falling over each other to get here to see premier league football, this included a lot of Pompey fans as well as the casual ones from Sevenoaks, Gloucester, Shepton Mallett and ilfracombe tht just want to see premier league football and/or were looking for a Premer league team to support. I understand our ticket prices are around the midtable for premier league clubs, so I would say overall the clb have got it right.

 

As for corporates, well from what I understand a crap product and service, high price, a succession of 'failed' sponsorship managers and poor relationships with local businesses are all to blame.

 

Both I'd say in summary.

[St Marco]

Personally I don't think you have to be at the game to comment about the attendance. And that's all it is commenting; not moaning. I was at the Villa game though, just to clarify.

 

The whole debate about attendances is not to do with how well off against other sides we are, though. It's around if and when we'll need to increase the capacity of St. Marys. As I've said numerous times in this thread already; I've not come across many people (myself and Turkish included) who haven't agreed with the idea that we could need a bigger stadium in the upcoming years. Hardly anyone has ruled out that possibility. The questions have always been; when will that happen, if it does? And what should the new potential capacity be? As such, it's only natural that we should look to analyse what our fanbase is right now. How many times do we sell out? How far in advance of games do we sell out? If we don't sell out, how close were we?

 

All those are questions that the club will be asking right now as they progress into an analysis of stadium capacity potential. So why on earth should fans not do the same? I don't get why you and so many others, just because we're not yet selling out, consider that to be moaning. The Man Utd game sold out regular seats nearly 2 weeks in advance; is it "moaning" to bring that up in the context of this thread? Saying that a particular attendance is "disappoiting", as I have done before, is simply a comment that I thought we'd attract more fans. It's not, as Frank's Cousin wants to dress it up, an attack on the club or Cortese.

 

Firstly it would be hypocritical to talk about how poor an event is attended if the person criticising is one of those who didn't attend.

 

Secondly I think it is naive to think at some point down the road we will not have to upgrade. The problem is your thinking that day is today. As if we have put in the planning for it already. The population of Southampton is increasing as is the surrounding areas. Just like with The Dell there will come a time when we have too many people wanting to watch. It could be in 5 years or in 500 years (as long as we have not defaulted on the loan for 3 billion pounds we got out the other day right?).

 

Thirdly if the stadium was bigger the club could charge people less. Tickets are expensive. A good model of this is Man City. An adult season ticket costs between £270 and £745. Meaning that would cost between £14 a game and £39 a game. They have far more cheaper tickets available then expensive ones.

Where as we have the tickets between £495 and £975. Meaning that would cost minimum of £26 game and maxiumum of £51 a game.

Now if you put that into the premier league table to see who has the cheapest and most expensive seats your see it goes

Arsenal - Most expensive (£51 for cheapest and £102 for most expensive)

Spurs - (£38 cheapest and £97 most expensive)

Chelsea - (£31 cheapest and £65 most expensive)

Saints - (£26 cheapest and £51 most expensive)

 

Point being how many of our seats would be at the cheaper price? Behind the goals and wings. So thats what 10k cheaper tickets? The rest are average to high. So if we are selling an additional 20k in that bracket which is £35+ a game then that is pretty good going. Especially when you compare it to teams like Man City who have far cheaper tickets.

 

So our attendences do not mean that is the true demand for games. It means the demand for games at that price. In some case our tickets increased by 60% this season. To think that would not have any effect again I think is Naive.

[Turkish]

Firstly it would be hypocritical to talk about how poor an event is attended if the person criticising is one of those who didn't attend.

 

Secondly I think it is naive to think at some point down the road we will not have to upgrade. The problem is your thinking that day is today. As if we have put in the planning for it already. The population of Southampton is increasing as is the surrounding areas. Just like with The Dell there will come a time when we have too many people wanting to watch. It could be in 5 years or in 500 years (as long as we have not defaulted on the loan for 3 billion pounds we got out the other day right?).

 

Thirdly if the stadium was bigger the club could charge people less. Tickets are expensive. A good model of this is Man City. An adult season ticket costs between £270 and £745. Meaning that would cost between £14 a game and £39 a game. They have far more cheaper tickets available then expensive ones.

Where as we have the tickets between £495 and £975. Meaning that would cost minimum of £26 game and maxiumum of £51 a game.

Now if you put that into the premier league table to see who has the cheapest and most expensive seats your see it goes

Arsenal - Most expensive (£51 for cheapest and £102 for most expensive)

Spurs - (£38 cheapest and £97 most expensive)

Chelsea - (£31 cheapest and £65 most expensive)

Saints - (£26 cheapest and £51 most expensive)

 

Point being how many of our seats would be at the cheaper price? Behind the goals and wings. So thats what 10k cheaper tickets? The rest are average to high. So if we are selling an additional 20k in that bracket which is £35+ a game then that is pretty good going. Especially when you compare it to teams like Man City who have far cheaper tickets.

 

So our attendences do not mean that is the true demand for games. It means the demand for games at that price. In some case our tickets increased by 60% this season. To think that would not have any effect again I think is Naive.

 

Maybe you can help me with this because many seems to think this is a great idea and makes sense. However we keep being told Cortese is a great businessman so would a great businessman think its great business to spend £20m on an expansion and then reduce to price when we can't sell the tickets we have at the already reasonably priced cost? If people were saying Cortese will do it because he's a great guy, loves the fans and wants as many of us to see South Coast super club as cheaply as possible then I'd get it, but they don't, they say He's a great businessman.

[The Kraken]

Firstly it would be hypocritical to talk about how poor an event is attended if the person criticising is one of those who didn't attend.

 

Why? Would it also be hypocritical to say how well it was attended if you didn't attend, and how great Saints fans are for turning out in such numbers? You keep saying its a criticism; I see it as a comment of what the attendance was and how close to capacity it is.

 

Secondly I think it is naive to think at some point down the road we will not have to upgrade. The problem is your thinking that day is today. As if we have put in the planning for it already. The population of Southampton is increasing as is the surrounding areas. Just like with The Dell there will come a time when we have too many people wanting to watch. It could be in 5 years or in 500 years (as long as we have not defaulted on the loan for 3 billion pounds we got out the other day right?).

 

Good effort at putting words in my mouth; but you've misinterpreted my opinion. I've always thought SFC should analyse attendances in the PL for at least 2 or 3 years before making a decision. I've been shouted down on that before by some but I stand by my opinion; that after 2 or 3 years, if the demand is there, we should increase. Not by making a decision based on previous years from a decade ago, and not by taking a punt and hoping we'll fill a bigger stadium if we build it.

 

So in line with that; what on earth is wrong with beginnning to monior ticket trends right now? And why are people getting so upset that we're doing it? If we were selling out every game these threads would be deemed positive; would you have a problem if I was saying "we're selling out all our games, often many days in advance, perhaps we need to accellerate the ground expansion plans?"

 

Thirdly if the stadium was bigger the club could charge people less. Tickets are expensive. A good model of this is Man City. An adult season ticket costs between £270 and £745. Meaning that would cost between £14 a game and £39 a game. They have far more cheaper tickets available then expensive ones.

Where as we have the tickets between £495 and £975. Meaning that would cost minimum of £26 game and maxiumum of £51 a game.

Now if you put that into the premier league table to see who has the cheapest and most expensive seats your see it goes

Arsenal - Most expensive (£51 for cheapest and £102 for most expensive)

Spurs - (£38 cheapest and £97 most expensive)

Chelsea - (£31 cheapest and £65 most expensive)

Saints - (£26 cheapest and £51 most expensive)

 

Point being how many of our seats would be at the cheaper price? Behind the goals and wings. So thats what 10k cheaper tickets? The rest are average to high. So if we are selling an additional 20k in that bracket which is £35+ a game then that is pretty good going. Especially when you compare it to teams like Man City who have far cheaper tickets.

 

So our attendences do not mean that is the true demand for games. It means the demand for games at that price. In some case our tickets increased by 60% this season. To think that would not have any effect again I think is Naive.

 

I'm not exactly what you're driving at with all that. But if we're not selling out all of the ground for many games, and not selling all classes of tickets (i.e. corporates, goals, wings and centre) then I'm sorry but our attendances do indeed mean that is the true demand for games. If we were only not selling out the corporate areas I'd agree with you; but that's not the case, its the most expensive AND the cheapest tickets that are not selling out.

 

In any case, demand is elastic and will change from game to game. Hence why these threads are valid to track that.

 

I think the problem is that some people just don't the reuslts of the analysis. As I said, if these threads existed and we were selling out every game I simply cannot believe they'd attract the needless vitriol they do.

[St Marco]

Okay Kraken let me put it to you like this....

 

WOULD we sell out our stadium IF the tickets were the same price on average of watching Man City. I.e if each ticket was £20 compared to the current £35?

 

That is what i'm driving at but you simply don't seem to accept it even though the figures are shown to you. We are the fourth most expensive club based on average ticket prices in the league. You try to indicate that it shouldn't matter and that we should be above the leagues trend and sell out every game no matter the price which is stupid.

 

I just looked at the tickets and the wings are sold out and they are the cheapest seats at £38 a seat! To sit in the Centre will cost you £42! Again to compare that to Everton its £31 for the wing and £32 for the Centre. And at those prices they still have a lower % then us!

 

If the tickets were cheaper more people can go and watch the games. It means more people fall into that afforadbility bracket. Nearly £50 to watch a game in the centre that is on TV and we have over 30k sold by looks of it? Again thats pretty impressive!

[Winchester Red]

Out of interest does anyone know how many tickets are sold?

 

(Sorry to break into the debate raging on the 'How many tickets sold for Fulham' thread

[The Kraken]

Okay Kraken let me put it to you like this....

 

WOULD we sell out our stadium IF the tickets were the same price on average of watching Man City. I.e if each ticket was £20 compared to the current £35?

 

That is what i'm driving at but you simply don't seem to accept it even though the figures are shown to you. We are the fourth most expensive club based on average ticket prices in the league. You try to indicate that it shouldn't matter and that we should be above the leagues trend and sell out every game no matter the price which is stupid.

 

I just looked at the tickets and the wings are sold out and they are the cheapest seats at £38 a seat! To sit in the Centre will cost you £42! Again to compare that to Everton its £31 for the wing and £32 for the Centre. And at those prices they still have a lower % then us!

 

If the tickets were cheaper more people can go and watch the games. It means more people fall into that afforadbility bracket. Nearly £50 to watch a game in the centre that is on TV and we have over 30k sold by looks of it? Again thats pretty impressive!

 

I think you're entirely missing the point, and trying to start a debate about whether we could get more players inside the ground if we reduced prices. Of course we could. But it doesn't look like we're about to do that; therefore it's completely irrelevant to potential to the discussion concerning attendances and a bigger stadium. Therefore I couldn't care less about that side of the debate.

 

What I'm talking about is our ability to sell out the ground given the current conditions of pricing. Because, before we build a bigger stadium, we should look to fill up our current one by maximising revenues.

 

If we sold tickets for £1 a time we could probably build ourselves a 45,000 seater stadium and be close to fillin it every week. That is never going to happen; we have a pricing structure which the club have set. There may be some small devaitions from it, but in general, that's the price model. Similarly we're not going to add on 15,000 extra seats and drop prices just to fill them; that makes zero business sense. So again, its a pointless discussion over how many fans we COULD have if we reduced prices. I'm sticking to facts of how many attending fans we do have with the actual pricing structure.

[ollysaints1]

i wish Turkish would give it a rest about home crowds, its so boring. we rarely sold out games in the premier league 7 years ago, our fan base has hardly increased after 6 seasons in league 1 and the championship (the majority of which were unsuccessful seasons). so why would our attendance all of a sudden boost?, only people who support the team will go to games, we dont have that many fans. get over it.

[Turkish]

i wish Turkish would give it a rest about home crowds, its so boring. we rarely sold out games in the premier league 7 years ago, our fan base has hardly increased after 6 seasons in league 1 and the championship (the majority of which were unsuccessful seasons). so why would our attendance all of a sudden boost?, only people who support the team will go to games, we dont have that many fans. get over it.

 

It wasn't me that said it was going to.

[ollysaints1]

You blab on about attendance every home game, if your that bothered get off your arse and go to the game, then you've done your bit, stop worrrying or moaning about what other people do, as i said, you make a thread every week, its boring.

[The Kraken]

It wasn't me that said it was going to.

 

Turkish, I think you should stop ever mentioning that St. Mary's hasn't sold out this season. Just pretend it's not happening. There's quite clearly a lot of hyper-sensitive people on here and they obviously don't like hearing that we're not selling all our seats. Lots of people are getting very upset about that.

 

Of course, if/when we do actually sell out, then it's fine for you to mention that we have done so. That's entirely diffferent news and you're very welcome to start threads on it if and when that happens, so that everyone can join in with the collective back-slapping.

[Turkish]

You blab on about attendance every home game, if your that bothered get off your arse and go to the game, then you've done your bit, stop worrrying or moaning about what other people do, as i said, you make a thread every week, its boring.

 

Err, I'm a season ticket holder thanks.

 

And it was quite obvious from the title what the thread was about, if you find it boring don't read it, it ain't difficult.

[ollysaints1]

Good for you, the thread you make every week is complaining that not every ticket is slod, why do you care? and why does it bother you so much?

[Turkish]

Turkish, I think you should stop ever mentioning that St. Mary's hasn't sold out this season. Just pretend it's not happening. There's quite clearly a lot of hyper-sensitive people on here and they obviously don't like hearing that we're not selling all our seats. Lots of people are getting very upset about that.

 

Of course, if/when we do actually sell out, then it's fine for you to mention that we have done so. That's entirely diffferent news and you're very welcome to start threads on it if and when that happens, so that everyone can join in with the collective back-slapping.

 

I agree. We should just congratulate ourselves every week as to how great our attendance is, whatever it is. If we sell out that is amazing, if we don't it's still amazing to get 28,000 fans. This means the club have done an incredible job of sellinga massive 3,000 tickets to non season ticket holders and away fans. It's an incredible achievement to do such a thing.

[The Kraken]

Good for you, the thread you make every week is complaining that not every ticket is slod, why do you care? and why does it bother you so much?

 

Why are you getting so upset that someone has created a thread that you're apparently not interested in (so disinterested in fact that you've used up all 3 of your daily posts to tell everyone how much you don't care about it and how boring it is).

[Turkish]

Good for you, the thread you make every week is complaining that not every ticket is slod, why do you care? and why does it bother you so much?

 

Where have I complained we haven't sold every ticket?

[SaintBobby]

The screw up in corporate and players seats in block 5 must be costing us 500 seats a game.

 

The club's marketing seems deeply crap too. The only posters in town are from Barclays welcoming us back to the Prem.

 

Our early results have been on the poor side.

 

Seems to me that 32K is about the right capacity for us. But it wouldn't take an enormous amount (an upturn in form or staying in the Premier League for a season) for demand to increase quite measurably.

 

Of course, demand has to increase massively before any stadium expansion should be considered.

[Frank's cousin]

Okay let me out it another way. Would it be fair to say under you plans some areas of our newly extended 45,000 stadium, some tickets will be cheaper than the current ticket price in our 32,000 stadium, perhaps significantly cheaper than the current price?

 

Yes

[doddisalegend]

I won't be going my sons tyro league football game clashes with the saints game and quite frankly watching my son and his mates (5 wins out of 5 +33 goal difference) is a lot more fun and a lot cheaper than watching saints get beaten again at the moment.

 

TBH I never expected us to sell out in the PL anyway so I don't really get the weekly gnashing of teeth and hair pulling that goes on every week about attendences. The PL is expensive and from my point of view doesn't really offer anything for the average football fan over lower league football....but that's just me.

Edited 6 October, 2012 by doddisalegend

[Turkish]

Yes

 

So it would be ridiculous to say 'slashing pricing' but quite right to say offering reduced and in some cases substantially reduced prices, okay then.

 

So I'm strill struggling with your business plan, please explain how there is a buiness case for the great businessman We are told Cortese is to spend £15-£20m to build the extension, then slash, sorry I mean dramatically reduce, the prices to sell them, when he isn't doing that for ones we can't sell right now and has done that at no time in the past. Not when we were getting 25k in the champion, 21k in league one and not now when we are only selling 2-3,000 match day tickets to home fans.

Edited 6 October, 2012 by Turkish

[SaintBobby]

So it would be ridiculous to say 'slashing pricing' but quite right to say offering reduced and in some cases substantially reduced prices, okay then.

 

So I'm strill struggling with your business plan, please explain how there is a buiness case for the great businessman We are told Cortese is to spend £15-£20m to build the extension, then slash, sorry I mean dramatically reduce, the prices to sell them, when he isn't doing that for ones we can't sell right now and has done that at no time in the past. Not when we were getting 25k in the champion, 21k in league one and not now when we are only selling 2-3,000 match day tickets to home fans.

 

I guess one consideration is how much extra money we make out of each attendee.

 

If the average ticket price in a larger stadium is lower, but we have an extra 10K people drinking/eating/buying stuff, that helps.

 

There's also the issue of whether bigger crowds help the team on the pitch. I assume home advantage is greater with 40,000 people paying £30 each than with 4,000 paying £400 each (although revenue is higher in the second case).

 

It's all moot at the moment there as SMS seems almost exactly the right size and the club seem to have got the pricing just about right. Just a few tweaks needed.

[Frank's cousin]

So it would be ridiculous to say 'slashing pricing' but quite right to say offering reduced and in some cases substantially reduced prices, okay then.

 

So I'm strill struggling with your business plan, please explain how there is a buiness case for the great businessman We are told Cortese is to spend £15-£20m to build the extension, then slash, sorry I mean dramatically reduce, the prices to sell them, when he isn't doing that for ones we can't sell right now and has done that at no time in the past. Not when we were getting 25k in the champion, 21k in league one and not now when we are only selling 2-3,000 match day tickets to home fans.

 

...I know I should not bother, but one last time....

 

1. The only reason to have an increased capacity is if yu can guarrantee increased TOTAL match day revenue

2. If loans/borrowings are needed to pay for such infrastructure development, that TOTAL increased revenue MUST EXCEED teh current revenue even after a sensible repayment is made - ergo, The BUSINESS vcase for expsnsion is an AN INCREASE in TOTAL revenue

 

Ok with me so far? - thats the easy bit, and I would not believe you would struggle with the first two points or diasagree? but I cant be sure

 

3. Football fans come in all shapes and sizes and now more than ever across a wider demographic - MANY fans complain they have been priced out of football as sufficient n umbers of more affluent fans grab the tickets and thus with the introduction of all seater stadia there has been a massive hike in price.

 

4. Some clubs have addressed this by offering a limited number of cheaper seats

 

5. Many fans can still not afford an ST and have to choose to only go to say 4 or 5 games a seaosn, some a few more, or take tehir kids as a treat.

 

still with me?

 

6. Some clubs, especially those in Germany, recognised that they to maintain an atmosphere, you need full stadia, and to attract those often younger fans that make that atmosphere you need to ensure it is affordable...

 

7. Whilst we do already have a range of prices - even the cheapest at say £450 is much more than some can justify, especially in the climate and when you add all the extras on top, a bit of food, pint, travel etc

 

8. NO ONE is going to change the current pricing whilst we have near as damit, 30K paying the current rate, and we can assume that those 30k will continue to come.

 

9. Would we attract an extra 8000 pe game if we had a section of the ground where STs cost say £300 - around £16 per game? I believe so.

 

10. That is approx £2.4 mil a year - which we say those 8000 spend say £3 each at the ground is another say 300K profit after cost of sales - so lets assume and extra 3 mil is generated without even improving the experience and selling more at the higher end of the spectrum

 

11. a 20mil loan to cover that cost over 20 years would cost around 2mil a year - so we would yield a small additional revenue, but more imporatntly you are atracting more fans and creating a longer term legacy.

 

12. Would NC ever contemplate such a move? who knows... and no he wont spend money if we are doing fine with what we have etc. but dont underestimate teh power of ego or taht he might also see the advantage of haveing a more expansive regular attending fan base either

 

13.... Fry has wittered on about brand errosion... well fair point, but woudl you say Bayern or Dortmund have eroded their brand by offering a 180 Euro STs?

 

14. This was never about whether NC would go down thsi route or not, but about whether a case could be made within a reasonable buisness model that would allow a club to expand its attendance by tickets being affordable to a greater demographic - I believe there is.

[Stepgar]

FFS mods do your job!

[Turkish]

An ingenious idea Frankie boy, but what's to stop existing season ticket holders just buying up the cheaper season tickets? I know I would, if I could get a season ticket £200 cheaper for the same product I'd do my upmost to get one. Then you'll have 8,000 existing season ticket holders sitting in the cheaper areas and their seats empty which are already too expensive for the ones you are hoping to attract by cheaper prices. So we have crowds of 30,000 still, just 8,000 are paying £200 a season less than they were before. So you're going to have to restrict those cheaper seats to 'brand new customers only' - that's going to go down well!!!

 

As for following the Bayern Munich model, well there is a small difficulty with this in that Bayern Munich aren't trying to offer cheap tickets to attract fans they don't have. They are already the biggest club in Germany and a giant of European football, they played in last season champions league final which they also hosted. They aren't looking at getting into millions of pounds worth of debt to attract new fans with cheaper prices. They are in one of the largest and most visited cities in Germany and one of the most successful football clubs in the world. Southampton isnt. Other than all of that I think it's a great idea and would work easily.

[Frank's cousin]

An ingenious idea Frankie boy, but what's to stop existing season ticket holders just buying up the cheaper season tickets? I know I would, if I could get a season ticket £200 cheaper for the same product I'd do my upmost to get one. Then you'll have 8,000 existing season ticket holders sitting in the cheaper areas and their seats empty which are already too expensive for the ones you are hoping to attract by cheaper prices. So we have crowds of 30,000 still, just 8,000 are paying £200 a season less than they were before. So you're going to have to restrict those cheaper seats to 'brand new customers only' - that's going to go down well!!!

 

As for following the Bayern Munich model, well there is a small difficulty with this in that Bayern Munich aren't trying to offer cheap tickets to attract fans they don't have. They are already the biggest club in Germany and a giant of European football, they played in last season champions league final which they also hosted. They aren't looking at getting into millions of pounds worth of debt to attract new fans with cheaper prices. They are in one of the largest and most visited cities in Germany and one of the most successful football clubs in the world. Southampton isnt. Other than all of that I think it's a great idea and would work easily.

 

So why do they do it then? whatever the reasons it works - and no I do not know how they ensure these tickets are available to those demographics, but there is undoudtedly a way to do this.... I just find it od that you are constantly so dismissive of concepts that dont register with your mid set - seems a pretty archaic way of behaving, and perhaps one which shows why our industry and business is so fricken backward compared to other countries, where there is a more open spirit in looking at differnet options, innovation etc.

 

There are plenty of 'old school' fans who moan constantly about football becomming elitist due to being priced out - at 30k in the prem we simply do not have the option as we will be budgeting based on the current pricing model - 40K offers that CHOICE should the club wish to get the 5 match a season fans to full ST holders - a hyperthetical discussion.

 

You need to stop thinking of it in terms of more fans at cheaper prices and go back to the fact its about attracting a bigger gate that means greater revenue - that is what its about, the broader price range is merely a method that COULD be used if increasing demand was a necessity to ensure we utilised the capacity, but importantly looked to build a larger fan base going forward... cant see what is wrong with that as a concept. This is not base don some mythical numbers, or attracting fans from 50 miles away, but looking to get those who all ready attend to attend more often.

[Give it to Ron]

One thing that's not been mentioned on this thread and I reckon having some effect is that every game can now be watched live in a pub.

A big saving for some on ticket prices.

We didn't have that last time in the Prem as not legal then.

[Turkish]

So why do they do it then? whatever the reasons it works - and no I do not know how they ensure these tickets are available to those demographics, but there is undoudtedly a way to do this.... I just find it od that you are constantly so dismissive of concepts that dont register with your mid set - seems a pretty archaic way of behaving, and perhaps one which shows why our industry and business is so fricken backward compared to other countries, where there is a more open spirit in looking at differnet options, innovation etc.

 

There are plenty of 'old school' fans who moan constantly about football becomming elitist due to being priced out - at 30k in the prem we simply do not have the option as we will be budgeting based on the current pricing model - 40K offers that CHOICE should the club wish to get the 5 match a season fans to full ST holders - a hyperthetical discussion.

 

You need to stop thinking of it in terms of more fans at cheaper prices and go back to the fact its about attracting a bigger gate that means greater revenue - that is what its about, the broader price range is merely a method that COULD be used if increasing demand was a necessity to ensure we utilised the capacity, but importantly looked to build a larger fan base going forward... cant see what is wrong with that as a concept. This is not base don some mythical numbers, or attracting fans from 50 miles away, but looking to get those who all ready attend to attend more often.

 

I'm open to ideas I just don't see how you could stop existing season ticket holders buying the slashed, I mean reduced tickets and leaving their current seats empty which would be at the same price and still too expensive for those you say can afford it now. Perhaps you could explain.

Edited 6 October, 2012 by Turkish

[cellone]

That poor fking horse.

[Frank's cousin]

I'm open to ideas I just don't see how you could stop existing season ticket holders buying the slashed, I mean reduced tickets and leaving their seats empty which would be at the same price and still too expensive. Perhaps you could explain.

 

Nope, cant explain as mentioned, I dont know how they do it over the channel, but they do. Maybe ask Bayern? Seriously, You play a fricken good devil's advocate Turks, as you dont let it lie, but FFS, will you never acknowledge that the concept has been shown to work, or that the idea is one that could ensure a bigger crowd wthout compromising revenues?

 

FWIW, I dont believe NC would consider this, because one thing my thoughts on this do not factor in is the impact of relegation or risk associated with even greater down turns in the economy - especially when its now clear that any monies needed to fund such a scheme would need to come from either loans (and its not a time in which these would be cheap) or by heavily compromising the budget available for wages and transfers. But that does not undermine the fact that you dont need 3-5 years of an ST waiting list of 4-5000 to generate a business model that would work/be justifiable IF the intention is also to expand what is classified as the 'regular' fan base.

[Turkish]

Nope, cant explain as mentioned, I dont know how they do it over the channel, but they do. Maybe ask Bayern? Seriously, You play a fricken good devil's advocate Turks, as you dont let it lie, but FFS, will you never acknowledge that the concept has been shown to work, or that the idea is one that could ensure a bigger crowd wthout compromising revenues?

 

FWIW, I dont believe NC would consider this, because one thing my thoughts on this do not factor in is the impact of relegation or risk associated with even greater down turns in the economy - especially when its now clear that any monies needed to fund such a scheme would need to come from either loans (and its not a time in which these would be cheap) or by heavily compromising the budget available for wages and transfers. But that does not undermine the fact that you dont need 3-5 years of an ST waiting list of 4-5000 to generate a business model that would work/be justifiable IF the intention is also to expand what is classified as the 'regular' fan base.

 

So to summarise your idea, we build 8,000 seats at a cost of c£20m, which we sell at a cheaper price but with no way of knowing who will buy them. We need to Hope everyone of the new, cheap seats go to new fans and not existing fans taking advantage of the cheaper price.

 

should disaster happen and the current fanbase decided they wanted to pay less and who could blame them so they snap up the cheap tickets we'd be exactly where we are now with tickets too expensive for most and all current matchgoers snapping up the cheap tickets. Theys be paying less, the fans we want to entice still can't afford it and we've given ourselves millions of debt for seats that remain empty. So actually expansion could well mean a decrease in revenue and an increase is debt. I can see why you think a superb businessman like Cortese wouldn't go for it to be honest.

Edited 6 October, 2012 by Turkish

[sandwichsaint]

That's the trouble with you Turkish, you've got a St Mary's size mentality. I'm with Frank, up to a point.

 

Not withstanding that with every game being shown in pubs and on the interweb the value of the matchday experience has already been massively discounted. Have we perhaps reached peakcrowds?

 

And I've spotted two teams worse than us on MOTD, we will have to be pretty poor to finish below Norwich or QPR, no? Just one more to find now, prob Reading.

[suewhistle]

We (the UK) have the most expensive ticket prices in Europe and here we are wondering about crowd numbers and debating if there is any impact on crowds due to our prices. You do wonder what world some of our posters inhabit: certainly not a commercial one, or maybe an obtuse "I'm alright, Jack" one...

 

So how do Bayern do it, or Dortmund, who until I saw them play the other day just thought were a Bomber Command target...

 

As for the question someone asked a bit earlier: why wouldn't existing season ticket holders not go and buy some of the cheaper tickets: well.. those who were eligible through being of the right age might do so, those who didn't mind where they sat might do so, but there'd be lots of opportunities to those who currently can't afford it regularly to go. I really struggle to understand why people find difficult to understand the German model.

 

I'd also like to know what the only person to talk about 'slashing' prices actually means by that. Is that 10% off like Tesco, or something else?

[The Kraken]

F*cking hell Frank. Your idea gets worse and worse the more you try to flog it.

 

You mention 8,000 cheaper tickets, and then completely ignore the 8,000 more expensive tickets that it would need to offset that. So for every 8,000 tickets sold at £300 you expect another 8,000 tickets to be sold at £1,500. You're living in a dream world. Your finanicial model make no sense, other than in your head.

[Frank's cousin]

F*cking hell Frank. Your idea gets worse and worse the more you try to flog it.

 

You mention 8,000 cheaper tickets, and then completely ignore the 8,000 more expensive tickets that it would need to offset that. So for every 8,000 tickets sold at £300 you expect another 8,000 tickets to be sold at £1,500. You're living in a dream world. Your finanicial model make no sense, other than in your head.

 

Where did I mention 8000 at £1500? Seems a claisic ploy on this forum, make stuff up to support a POV, rather than looking for more detail.... guess its why we are happy to accept the most expensive football price is Europe with crowds declining... The funny thing is, maybe not funny, maybe a bit sad really, is that I would have thought most fans would look at aspirational plans and see that as a positive and WELCOME discussion on ideas and concepts that would make it reality EARLIER than a more risk averse strategy might mean.... yet we have several on here who despite this all being a hyperthetical discussion (as we have feck all knowledge of what the club is planning or its time frame) seem unable or unwilling to even EXPLORE the practicalities of alternatives that would realise this....

 

Like I said, if you had actually bothered to read it properly, no one suggested '8000 at £1500' - merely that 8000 at £300 in addition to the current numbers at the current levels would be doale financially - yes Turks was right to question whether this would mean some who currently pay more might want/qualify for those additional cheaper seats and I acknowledged, I am not sure what mechanism is employed to police this abroad, but it works... so there is a solution to that issue.

 

...but then again we have fans who were happy to screw the club when it was skint by sharing STs to avoid paying a few years back, and some who carried on going when they defaulted on their payment plans.... still have many who moan and whinge about prices, moan and whinge about pretty much everything so am surprized some of them actually bother to go in the first place... but am not really surprized we also have some who see eveything as a fait de complis and are not prepared to discuss alternatives even in a hypethetical situation....

 

Just odd.

[Tamesaint]

The funny thing is, maybe not funny, maybe a bit sad really, is that I would have thought most fans would look at aspirational plans and see that as a positive and WELCOME discussion on ideas and concepts that would make it reality EARLIER than a more risk averse strategy might mean.... yet we have several on here who despite this all being a hyperthetical discussion (as we have feck all knowledge of what the club is planning or its time frame) seem unable or unwilling to even EXPLORE the practicalities of alternatives that would realise this....

 

Just odd.

 

Unfortunately it is more than just odd. The continuous negativity of the trolls on this "spaz board" does nothing but turn off so many forum members. Frank does a good job in defeating the arguments of the unreasonable but you always know that the trolls will be back.

 

Its just a pity that they dont go back under their bridges.

[SaintH]

Unbelievable!! The idiots who constantly ruin this forum have continued their pathetic ramblings ad nauseam!!(Though I'm not referring to all who contributed).

I logged in to see if anyone had anything decent to say and at least I found Tamesaint highlighting exactly how I feel.

The same old faces ruin every thread with their "I've got the biggest ****" mentality.

And incredibly certain posters describe this as a spaz board - yet they contribute more than the rest of us put together. I presume the irony of that has just floated on by them!!

How long before one of them comes back with "you don't have to read the forum / you can put someone on ignore / if u don't like it then **** off!!"?

I read more and more comments from forum users fed up with the childish penis waving by the few on here.

[Bucks Saint]

Mods vacancy?

[Turkish]

Where did I mention 8000 at £1500? Seems a claisic ploy on this forum, make stuff up to support a POV, rather than looking for more detail.... guess its why we are happy to accept the most expensive football price is Europe with crowds declining... The funny thing is, maybe not funny, maybe a bit sad really, is that I would have thought most fans would look at aspirational plans and see that as a positive and WELCOME discussion on ideas and concepts that would make it reality EARLIER than a more risk averse strategy might mean.... yet we have several on here who despite this all being a hyperthetical discussion (as we have feck all knowledge of what the club is planning or its time frame) seem unable or unwilling to even EXPLORE the practicalities of alternatives that would realise this....

 

Like I said, if you had actually bothered to read it properly, no one suggested '8000 at £1500' - merely that 8000 at £300 in addition to the current numbers at the current levels would be doale financially - yes Turks was right to question whether this would mean some who currently pay more might want/qualify for those additional cheaper seats and I acknowledged, I am not sure what mechanism is employed to police this abroad, but it works... so there is a solution to that issue.

 

...but then again we have fans who were happy to screw the club when it was skint by sharing STs to avoid paying a few years back, and some who carried on going when they defaulted on their payment plans.... still have many who moan and whinge about prices, moan and whinge about pretty much everything so am surprized some of them actually bother to go in the first place... but am not really surprized we also have some who see eveything as a fait de complis and are not prepared to discuss alternatives even in a hypethetical situation....

 

Just odd.

 

As I mentioned above Bayern Munich aren't trying to entice new fans by cheaper prices, they are the biggest and best supported team in Germany and German football is booming at the moment. Why they do it I don't know but it seems to bethe norm in Germany for ticket prices to be much lower than here. The only way it would work for us it absolutely gurantee every one of your new, lower priced tickets went to people that can't afford it at the moment and 'brand new customers only' can you imagine the uproar if Saints suddenly introduced £300 season tickets for new fans whilst existing fans still have to pay what they pay at the moment? I for one would tell the club where to stick their season ticket if that happened.

[Turkish]

Unbelievable!! The idiots who constantly ruin this forum have continued their pathetic ramblings ad nauseam!!(Though I'm not referring to all who contributed).

I logged in to see if anyone had anything decent to say and at least I found Tamesaint highlighting exactly how I feel.

The same old faces ruin every thread with their "I've got the biggest ****" mentality.

And incredibly certain posters describe this as a spaz board - yet they contribute more than the rest of us put together. I presume the irony of that has just floated on by them!!

How long before one of them comes back with "you don't have to read the forum / you can put someone on ignore / if u don't like it then **** off!!"?

I read more and more comments from forum users fed up with the childish penis waving by the few on here.

 

What is unbelievable is idiots ruining threads by telling everyone they don't want to read what is on a thread when it's quite evident what that thread is about.

 

As has been mentioned several times, it's quite clear what this thread is about, it it doesn't interest you don't read it and don't commented it telling everyone how it doesn't interest you.

Edited 7 October, 2012 by Turkish

[Turkish]

Unfortunately it is more than just odd. The continuous negativity of the trolls on this "spaz board" does nothing but turn off so many forum members. Frank does a good job in defeating the arguments of the unreasonable but you always know that the trolls will be back.

 

Its just a pity that they dont go back under their bridges.

 

Sorry, perhaps you can explain where there is any negatively and trolling on this thread?

[solentstars]

whats the dress code for fulham game ...i,m sure the fulham fans will be keeping a eye out for our top fashion victims . you have to guess what the size of the crowd as well to show your a member of the non working class and act like a walley and use childish words like mong and spaz while trolling.

[SaintH]

What is unbelievable is idiots ruining threads by telling everyone they don't want to read what is on a thread when it's quite evident what that thread is about.

 

As has been mentioned several times, it's quite clear what this thread is about, it it doesn't interest you don't read it and don't commented it telling everyone how it doesn't interest you.

 

I rest my case. You're too up your own arse to understand the effect you have on other people's enjoyment.

 

And it's exactly the point of this thread I wanted to read about - its the idiots ruining it for others with their "look at me" attitude that makes it pointless.

 

You just carrying on adding to your spaz board.

[Saint_clark]

Actually, I think this thread was ruined by a mixture of people being childish and trolling, but also by those who are criticising the thread premise out of habit. Once the official attendance is released maybe we can try this again without acting like a bunch of kids?

I won't hold my breath...