Colinjb Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Explain please. +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 +1. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 This. Nutshell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Explain please. This is going to be good, if I can borrow money against next year's income to avoid tax on this year's then BVI loan me up. Can only see one reason for getting a loan, the usual one, you want to spend more than you actually have available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Interesting yes, concerning not really, the Swiss were never going to fund us for ever and a day anyway. Just dispels the rumour that we're the 5th richest club in the Universe or whatever, we're PL minnows who'll do well to survive. Concerning IMO because NC is ambitious but ambition in the PL needs money, this heaps more pressure on to survive and do more than just Survive. Concerning because as you say Swiss were never going to fund us for ever, so where does the next £30m come from, or will be looking at new owners sooner rather than later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Who would I trust my financial future with more? A successful investment banker with a proven track record, or a bunch of internet nutjobs:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 you've got to laugh at the ignorant childish tantrums and panic on here!! specatacularly failed to reinforce?? England U21 right back, Japanese international CB and Polish international GK - maybe not as much as we ideally want or need but hardly failing to reinforce!! lol tell me, as you talk in facts, how much was loan for? what will it be used for? How is our cash flow? Has the family back gone? which defenders did we under bid for? Or could it be, you know f all and enjoy a good cry? So true, you only have to read back over to see stuff like "this will be in the nationals tomorrow" The result? Sweet FA in the press. Just because some on here are a bunch of squinnying ****s, they presume everyone else must be. Last year, Nicola Clotese (LOL) claimed he was 43, this year he says he's 44. Which is it Nikki? Best get your story straight. #Don'tswallowSFClies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Who would I trust my financial future with more? A successful investment banker with a proven track record, or a bunch of internet nutjobs:rolleyes: I didn't realise MLG had been made a fan on the board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 So true, you only have to read back over to see stuff like "this will be in the nationals tomorrow" The result? Sweet FA in the press. Just because some on here are a bunch of squinnying ****s, they presume everyone else must be. Last year, Nicola Clotese (LOL) claimed he was 43, this year he says he's 44. Which is it Nikki? Best get your story straight. #Don'tswallowSFClies Or maybe it's because '4th from bottom placed premier league side take out loan' isn't MASSIVE news to the nationals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Possibly. Maybe that the tv money alone gave insufficient security for the amount borrowed. Or maybe offering up more security lowers the interest rate? Who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Or maybe offering up more security lowers the interest rate? Who knows... Well hopefully so, Everton seem to be using this Vibrac outfit on a pretty constant basis, 14 million here, 13 there. Seems to cost them 10% of the loan amount every time. http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/23096-new-mortgage-taken-out-by-efc/page__st__40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Or maybe offering up more security lowers the interest rate? Who knows... Possible. Anyhow, stay up and all should be cool. This has made an interesting season even more interesting . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 This is going to be good, if I can borrow money against next year's income to avoid tax on this year's then BVI loan me up. Can only see one reason for getting a loan, the usual one, you want to spend more than you actually have available. I've taken out loans to buy things when I've already got the money in a savings account that I could have used to buy the items outright. Nothing unusual in borrowing money to preserve your savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 If it's a loan intended to be paid before the end of this season, but secured against income from next, could well be for tax reasons. Oh no, we really are pompey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticksaint Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 I've taken out loans to buy things when I've already got the money in a savings account that I could have used to buy the items outright. Nothing unusual in borrowing money to preserve your savings. This doesn`t make sense to me! Surely the interest you`re paying on the loans is a great deal bigger than the interest you `re getting on your savings! No ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 This doesn`t make sense to me! Surely the interest you`re paying on the loans is a great deal bigger than the interest you `re getting on your savings! No ? Especially as Vibrac don't seem to have a Mother Theresa like policy. According to Everton's board it costs 10% ish of the amount in interest and fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Well hopefully so, Everton seem to be using this Vibrac outfit on a pretty constant basis, 14 million here, 13 there. Seems to cost them 10% of the loan amount every time. http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/23096-new-mortgage-taken-out-by-efc/page__st__40 Where do you get the 10% from? Most of it is 3 plus base rate. Also Everton don't own their training ground anymore... Having sold that asset off... Ummh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Where do you get the 10% from? Most of it is 3 plus base rate. Also Everton don't own their training ground anymore... Having sold that asset off... Ummh 1.3 million cost on 13 million=10% no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 1.3 million cost on 13 million=10% no ? You missed the 'AND Overseas Broadcasting Money, Title Sponsorship Money, Commercial Contract Money and Radio Contract Money of the 2011/12 season'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 (edited) This doesn`t make sense to me! Surely the interest you`re paying on the loans is a great deal bigger than the interest you `re getting on your savings! No ? I've not done it primarily for interest rate reasons (unless there's a 0% interest promotion). I do it to preserve my savings. Yes, I could spend, say, £1000 of my savings and pay it back into my account, at the same sort of pace that I would have paid the loan at, but sometimes it's simply more convenient to take out a loan, especially when the money is in a minimum notice savings account in order to attract higher rates of interest in the first place... The bottom line is we simply don't know why Cortese has gone down the loan route on this occasion. The reason could be completely logical or it could be more sinister. We could spend 50 page speculating which and still be none the wiser. Edited 4 October, 2012 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 You missed the 'AND Overseas Broadcasting Money, Title Sponsorship Money, Commercial Contract Money and Radio Contract Money of the 2011/12 season'. So? Their Vibrac loan of 13 million cost them 1.3 million in interest and charges, that's 10% in anyone's calculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 I've not done it primarily for interest rate reasons (unless there's a 0% interest promotion). I do it to preserve my savings. Yes, I could spend, say, £1000 of my savings and pay it back into my account at the same sort of level that I would have paid the loan at but sometimes it's simply more convenient to take out a loan, especially when the money is in a minimum notice savings account in order to attract higher rates if interest.... The bottom line is we simply don't know why Cortese has gone down the loan route on this occasion. The reason could be completely logical or it could be more sinister. We could spend 50 page speculating which and still be none the wiser. Like Saints have savings! Oh do behave. We've had to get a loan because the Swiss have cut off our air supply more likely than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 This doesn`t make sense to me! Surely the interest you`re paying on the loans is a great deal bigger than the interest you `re getting on your savings! No ? It preserves liquidity, for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticksaint Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 I've not done it primarily for interest rate reasons (unless there's a 0% interest promotion). I do it to preserve my savings. Yes, I could spend, say, £1000 of my savings and pay it back into my account, at the same sort of pace that I would have paid the loan at, but sometimes it's simply more convenient to take out a loan, especially when the money is in a minimum notice savings account in order to attract higher rates of interest in the first place... The bottom line is we simply don't know why Cortese has gone down the loan route on this occasion. The reason could be completely logical or it could be more sinister. We could spend 50 page speculating which and still be none the wiser. Agreed .That`s why a little transparency wouldn`t come amiss and i`m not anti Cortese ! I think we are unlikely to get it though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Like Saints have savings! Oh do behave. We've had to get a loan because the Swiss have cut off our air supply more likely than not. Possibly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Regardless of whether you are concerned by this or not, is there anything you can do to affect it ? The club isn't 'ours', it's at best a business run for the shareholders, at worst a plaything for a swiss banker. All the angst on this thread amounts to nothing, other than to give the phew something to sn!gger about on POL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Regardless of whether you are concerned by this or not, is there anything you can do to affect it ? The club isn't 'ours', it's at best a business run for the shareholders, at worst a plaything for a swiss banker. All the angst on this thread amounts to nothing, other than to give the phew something to sn!gger about on POL. It depends if you think pressure groups and lobbying can lead to some transparency. Jordan Sibley made a point yesterday of commenting on twitter about all the rumours doing the rounds regarding the training ground; so they obviously had some form of effect, we've been told time and again that the club typically won't respond to rumour and conjecture. Even if there's nothing tangible that the fanbase can do about the financial situation, its still good to press for answers so that we know how the club is being financed. I'd hate to be ignorant to the most basic of facts; and I think its healthy to sometimes question the way the club is being run when there is such doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 It depends if you think pressure groups and lobbying can lead to some transparency. Jordan Sibley made a point yesterday of commenting on twitter about all the rumours doing the rounds regarding the training ground; so they obviously had some form of effect, we've been told time and again that the club typically won't respond to rumour and conjecture. Even if there's nothing tangible that the fanbase can do about the financial situation, its still good to press for answers so that we know how the club is being financed. I'd hate to be ignorant to the most basic of facts; and I think its healthy to sometimes question the way the club is being run when there is such doubt. NC hater. You've got such a short memory, it was only 3 years ago we were in league one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 So? Their Vibrac loan of 13 million cost them 1.3 million in interest and charges, that's 10% in anyone's calculations. Ok, I assumed the amount they borrowed was in the link but wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Lizzard Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Prem money paid at the end of the season. Option 1 Take a loan now to release the guaranteed funds. Sign players. Stay up. Repeat for following season. Option 2 Don't take a loan Don't sign players Use prem money at end of season to bolster squad for upcoming Championship campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Prem money paid at the end of the season. Option 1 Take a loan now to release the guaranteed funds. Sign players. Stay up. Repeat for following season. Option 2 Don't take a loan Don't sign players Use prem money at end of season to bolster squad for upcoming Championship campaign. Nah ! Can't have sensible posts on a conspiracy thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Prem money paid at the end of the season. Option 1 Take a loan now to release the guaranteed funds. Sign players. Stay up. Repeat for following season. Option 2 Don't take a loan Don't sign players Use prem money at end of season to bolster squad for upcoming Championship campaign. Of course you are right and it does seem a reasonable approach. But with no financial muscle behind us we are just a small PL club which like in the days of Lowe is unlikely to flourish unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 From a Liverpool Echo article last year : "One national newspaper report today detailed the club’s new loan, but club officials say it is a rolling agreement which has been part of their finances for more than four years and was clear to see in their last set of accounts. And they say the interest rates they have agreed with Vibrac will actually save them money compared to the terms offered for renewal by Investec and other banks. Borrowing against TV income for the following year is not uncommon among top flight football clubs, and the club’s latest loan has been approved by the Premier League. Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2011/09/20/everton-fc-insist-new-loan-based-on-next-season-s-premier-league-tv-income-will-not-increase-debt-100252-29456193/#ixzz28M6xxubb" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_benefits_of_debt This is what I what I was suggesting. I don't have details of our own exact situation, so it might well not apply, but it's a recognised strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 you've got to laugh at the ignorant childish tantrums and panic on here!! specatacularly failed to reinforce?? England U21 right back, Japanese international CB and Polish international GK - maybe not as much as we ideally want or need but hardly failing to reinforce!! lol tell me, as you talk in facts, how much was loan for? what will it be used for? How is our cash flow? Has the family back gone? which defenders did we under bid for? Or could it be, you know f all and enjoy a good cry? Nick you always seem to take things personally - he is just expressing a view, it may not be one you agree with, and I am not saying it is right, but why use language like childish and ignorant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 I have it on trusted authority that the Liebherr family are very much still behind us and this latest event is nothing to worry about. I have no explicit details, but from a position of concern yesterday I am a lot more comforted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Are we up **** creek without a paddle ? Or is this a storm in a tea cup ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 I have it on trusted authority that the Liebherr family are very much still behind us and this latest event is nothing to worry about. I have no explicit details, but from a position of concern yesterday I am a lot more comforted. Proof and sources chalet or have no credibility on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 I wouldn't be surprised that after exploring all options with the Ramirez deal and trying to structure payments etc as a last resort we had to stump up more cash than we had available. As such a figure was burrowed to pay Bologna more upfront which we will now pay back in installments to the lender rather than in higher installments to Bologna (which was also gambling on future revenue) If you factor into that scenario with us still getting finance from what Markus has set up for us, you then get the whole picture. Most likely any form of trust money due to us would have safeguards against taking loans against. That would still allow you to borrow against future revenues with the capability of those trust funds filling that hole and more. We can't expect the remaining Liebherrs to bail us out. They have a great deal of love for Markus but not necessarily football. It was Cortese and Markus who had the passion for Saints, with Markus exceptional benevolence extending after his death. If Cortese wanted to finance extra seats at St Mary's I doubt Katrina would be putting money into it or sufficient from what Markus has left us. We would then have to go to another source of finance to get that job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Prem money paid at the end of the season. Option 1 Take a loan now to release the guaranteed funds. Sign players. Stay up.Repeat for following season. Option 2 Don't take a loan Don't sign players Use prem money at end of season to bolster squad for upcoming Championship campaign. The slight issue being you can't guarantee that bit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Are we up **** creek without a paddle ? Or is this a storm in a tea cup ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 I think I like Up and Aways very reassuring words. Don't think my state of mind would extend to the Saints going into crisis ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Are we up **** creek without a paddle ? Or is this a storm in a tea cup ? As has been said many thousands of times on the Skates take over thread, It's not debt that kills you but the inability to service that debt. IIRC we were struggling to get a loan with the banks due to the company not having a credit rating. We have bought players against our future revenue and presumably this money gives us working capital on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Proof and sources chalet or have no credibility on here. I took your advice. I do to people I want to share it with, but not on a public forum and I don't respond to begin for info pMs like I go when I posted snippets about the Clyne and Phillips stuff. I had My fingers burnt a few years back when I posted some info on the old s4E site and got the source in teouble so won't be doing it again. AnywY lOL @ me Pretending to be itk etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 I took your advice. Glad to hear it. But I'm only repeating what is asked when anything negative is posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Who would I trust my financial future with more? A successful investment banker with a proven track record, or a bunch of internet nutjobs:rolleyes: genuine question. Can you give me some details about Cortese's success as an investment banker. I keep hearing on here how successful he was but can't find anything to substantiate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 genuine question. Can you give me some details about Cortese's success as an investment banker. I keep hearing on here how successful he was but can't find anything to substantiate it. Swiss bankers are slightly more low key than their UK counterparts. The fact that he was one is reference enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 genuine question. Can you give me some details about Cortese's success as an investment banker. I keep hearing on here how successful he was but can't find anything to substantiate it. I could not find anything either when I looked a couple of years ago From Wikapaedia Cortese was educated in Switzerland and England in business communication and finance.[2] He was involved for ten years in sports business practice as head of the sports and entertainment desk at various Swiss banks, providing global services to sports and entertainment professionals.[2] His most recent position was as an executive at Banque Heritage in Geneva where he managed the finances of billionaires. He had previously run the sports business desk for Credit Suisse.[3] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Where do you get the 10% from? Most of it is 3 plus base rate. Also Everton don't own their training ground anymore... Having sold that asset off... Ummh The Everton loan from Vibrac in 2011 of £14m is suggested to be costing them £1.3m and a previous bank loan in 2010 cost them £1.6m PLUS 3%+bank base rate interest, so these loans are not cheap by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 (edited) Swiss bankers are slightly more low key than their UK counterparts. The fact that he was one is reference enough. really. Wonder of Kweku Adoboli or Kareem Serageldin will use that line to get their next job? Edited 4 October, 2012 by Chez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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