Training Ground Development - "temporarily suspended"

[Gordon Mockles]

I'd always assumed she was Swiss from her accent. Could be wrong. Anyway, I shouldn't acknowledge that comment due to past comments from the poster clearly rendering his opinions obsolete.

 

Also, people should not be getting narked about anti Cortese comments, it's a feckin chat forum. Conversely, those grateful for the success he has brought us (all be it down to Markus ultimately), me included, should not be naive or even angry just cos some are outspoken.

 

Anyone with a modicum of judgement clearly realises, Nicola is a bit of a ***t & often rude & uncompromising with people & seems to look down on those not living in his upper echelons of wealth but each to their own. Some are here would argue all those people, whether in business with the club or elsewhere, are wrong or have an axe to grind. What's wrong with a good old fashioned opinion? It's not illegal....yet. Therefore, despite some opinions being a bit OTT & strong, it shouldn't matter. You make your own bed, you lie in it & I think it's clear, Don Nicola has certainly ruffled a few feathers along the way & can be quite petty. Let us hope the builders do a good job & we don't have the "sue me then, I've got loads of money" attitude that we may have allegedly had as a bullying tactic in the past!

[capitalsaint]

I'd always assumed she was Swiss from her accent. Could be wrong. Anyway, I shouldn't acknowledge that comment due to past comments from the poster clearly rendering his opinions obsolete.

 

Also, people should not be getting narked about anti Cortese comments, it's a feckin chat forum. Conversely, those grateful for the success he has brought us (all be it down to Markus ultimately), me included, should not be naive or even angry just cos some are outspoken.

 

Anyone with a modicum of judgement clearly realises, Nicola is a bit of a ***t & often rude & uncompromising with people & seems to look down on those not living in his upper echelons of wealth but each to their own. Some are here would argue all those people, whether in business with the club or elsewhere, are wrong or have an axe to grind. What's wrong with a good old fashioned opinion? It's not illegal....yet. Therefore, despite some opinions being a bit OTT & strong, it shouldn't matter. You make your own bed, you lie in it & I think it's clear, Don Nicola has certainly ruffled a few feathers along the way & can be quite petty. Let us hope the builders do a good job & we don't have the "sue me then, I've got loads of money" attitude that we may have allegedly had as a bullying tactic in the past!

 

I don't recall him ever doing anything that would suggest class warfare.

 

Are you trying your best to mould him into Lowe?

[Gordon Mockles]

I don't recall him ever doing anything that would suggest class warfare.

 

Are you trying your best to mould him into Lowe?

 

Not at all. I couldn't wish for someone to be more different & I am so glad for the success he had brought us. Unlike that arrogant imbecile of the past whose name I don't even like to mention, Cortese has the one element to his personality that all his predecessors lacked, ambition. It's just the recent rumours & behaviour about management & squad concerns me somewhat. People will froth at the mouth defending it & cut me down for mentioning it but I question Les Reed's involvement & his influence on Cortese. Then there is Cortese himself. I feel for Adkins because I feel he is snookered although he may also be out of his depth & being supported by other staff. Who knows but the subs & selections are very strange & inconsistent which hints differing sets of decision making. Just my view.

 

The Lowe comment you make is just plain dumb!

[Frank's cousin]

Not at all. I couldn't wish for someone to be more different & I am so glad for the success he had brought us. Unlike that arrogant imbecile of the past whose name I don't even like to mention, Cortese has the one element to his personality that all his predecessors lacked, ambition. It's just the recent rumours & behaviour about management & squad concerns me somewhat. People will froth at the mouth defending it & cut me down for mentioning it but I question Les Reed's involvement & his influence on Cortese. Then there is Cortese himself. I feel for Adkins because I feel he is snookered although he may also be out of his depth & being supported by other staff. Who knows but the subs & selections are very strange & inconsistent which hints differing sets of decision making. Just my view.

 

The Lowe comment you make is just plain dumb!

 

But I think you have hit the nail squarely in your own post. As you say no one should be above criticism, nor should anyone not be entitled to express whatever opinion they form... just that maybe opinion should be informed on knowledge, rather than rumour and hints?

 

Cortese is never going to everyones's cup of tea, nor will he get everything right - and what is one fans 'slight arrogance' is anothers 'focus'.

 

The problem, I and some others have is that just as that too often the 'complaints, rumour and hints, eminate from the same posters - and naturaly we read into that what we will.

 

I recall when there was so much anti-Lowe (and you can say his name, its not like he's Voldemort or something..) stuff on here, one of the biggest arguments I heard was that all his personality traits and feck ups would be forgiven as a bit eccentric, if ONLY he managed to ensure he brought success on the pitch and showed some ambition that demonstrated committment - yet now we have that, often the same folk (and I have been stuck on here for long enough to notice) have switched their attention to the lesser 'issues'.... If he gets that right, what then? We already see posts about his personality based on assumptions... I dont know the bloke, he could be a right **** or a the nicest bloke when away form football and the job he is responsible for, I dont know, and to be honest dont care. He is responsible first an foremost for ensuring the financial stabilty of the club and hopefully with that providing financial investment necessary to progress the club - If he does that, then the rest, well I'll be more forgiving about parking or ticket tax etc.

 

Others feel differntly - so it seems - and if those who have an issue are geneuinely upset by some fan experience, then fair play to them for voicing their opinion - I am sure they back it up with appropriately worded correspondence to the club to see if something can be done about it.... but far to many just seem happy to jump on the bandwagon and put twopenneth of whinge in that adds nothing new and leads to the obvious 'speculation' of some other agenda...

 

Peace and harmony was never going to last, and the it would not surprise me that if we now strugggle a bit on the pitch, the voices of discontent become more persistent - at a time when we should be getting behind the players, management and club as things are now more difficult... thats the way of fans I guess.

Edited 12 October, 2012 by Frank's cousin

[capitalsaint]

Not at all. I couldn't wish for someone to be more different & I am so glad for the success he had brought us. Unlike that arrogant imbecile of the past whose name I don't even like to mention, Cortese has the one element to his personality that all his predecessors lacked, ambition. It's just the recent rumours & behaviour about management & squad concerns me somewhat. People will froth at the mouth defending it & cut me down for mentioning it but I question Les Reed's involvement & his influence on Cortese. Then there is Cortese himself. I feel for Adkins because I feel he is snookered although he may also be out of his depth & being supported by other staff. Who knows but the subs & selections are very strange & inconsistent which hints differing sets of decision making. Just my view.

 

The Lowe comment you make is just plain dumb!

 

I just thought it seemed a bit odd that you would make reference to him treating 'poor' people badly, which hasn't really got anything to do with ambition.

 

Didn't Turkish or somebody mention a while back that Les Reed actually acts as the conduit between NC and NA, and has before convinced NC not to sack the manager?

[Legod Third Coming]

I just thought it seemed a bit odd that you would make reference to him treating 'poor' people badly, which hasn't really got anything to do with ambition.

 

Didn't Turkish or somebody mention a while back that Les Reed actually acts as the conduit between NC and NA, and has before convinced NC not to sack the manager?

 

I didn't realise Turkish was privvy to the conversations Les Reed and the Chairman are having. I will take his posts with less salt in future...

[Faz]

But I think you have hit the nail squarely in your own post. As you say no one should be above criticism, nor should anyone not be entitled to express whatever opinion they form... just that maybe opinion should be informed on knowledge, rather than rumour and hints?

 

Cortese is never going to everyones's cup of tea, nor will he get everything right - and what is one fans 'slight arrogance' is anothers 'focus'.

 

The problem, I and some others have is that just as that too often the 'complaints, rumour and hints, eminate from the same posters - and naturaly we read into that what we will.

 

Whoah there tiger. I would much prefer to form an opinion and then cherry pick the evidence, inuendo and rumour that supports it. That way I know I'm always right.

[derry]

Les Reed might have a good record of employment at the FA but he was a disaster at Charlton as manager before they very quickly dispensed with his services.

[Dig Dig]

Les Reed might have a good record of employment at the FA but he was a disaster at Charlton as manager before they very quickly dispensed with his services.

 

Everyone knows that, what's your point?

[capitalsaint]

Les Reed might have a good record of employment at the FA but he was a disaster at Charlton as manager before they very quickly dispensed with his services.

 

The Newcastle manager wasn't too great at Charlton either.

[sir woody]

I hear through 2 companies that have worked for SFC that they were both owed fortunes and had to take SFC to court to get their money. The problem with the development at staplewood is that leadbitter are owed 1million plus and are not being paid, so they have pulled off site until it is settled.The planning issue/architectural problems is nothing more than an sfc smokescreen.

[Window Cleaner]

I hear through 2 companies that have worked for SFC that they were both owed fortunes and had to take SFC to court to get their money. The problem with the development at staplewood is that leadbitter are owed 1million plus and are not being paid, so they have pulled off site until it is settled.The planning issue/architectural problems is nothing more than an sfc smokescreen.

 

 

those are quite some allegations, hope they're factual because if not you may not have heard the last of them.

[Dig Dig]

I hear through 2 companies that have worked for SFC that they were both owed fortunes and had to take SFC to court to get their money. The problem with the development at staplewood is that leadbitter are owed 1million plus and are not being paid, so they have pulled off site until it is settled.The planning issue/architectural problems is nothing more than an sfc smokescreen.

 

How would there have been two court cases involving significant sums of money without any of it entering the public domain?

[suntouched]

How would there have been two court cases involving significant sums of money without any of it entering the public domain?

That would be the Non Disclosure Agreement then..........Used on every single occasion at SFC

[Frank's cousin]

That would be the Non Disclosure Agreement then..........Used on every single occasion at SFC

 

...if it goes to court - its in the public domain - as this is amtter of public record - and you comply it went to court cases - non -diclosure agreements only apply to the content of any dispute or settlement, noyt the fact that a dispute took place - especially if it ends up in 'court' so wherever this came from its BS

[suntouched]

...if it goes to court - its in the public domain - as this is amtter of public record - and you comply it went to court cases - non -diclosure agreements only apply to the content of any dispute or settlement' date=' noyt the fact that a dispute took place - especially if it ends up in 'court' so wherever this came from its BS[/quote']

 

Sorry - thats the point i was making. These never go to court. They always settle ahead of time, normally the day before and with a NDA as part of the package.

[Turkish]

I just thought it seemed a bit odd that you would make reference to him treating 'poor' people badly, which hasn't really got anything to do with ambition.

 

Didn't Turkish or somebody mention a while back that Les Reed actually acts as the conduit between NC and NA, and has before convinced NC not to sack the manager?

 

I didn't realise Turkish was privvy to the conversations Les Reed and the Chairman are having. I will take his posts with less salt in future...

 

Yes i did say this and it's true. Again, i dont give a sh*t if faceless people on a spaz board believe it or not.

[jayrivers]

Sorry - thats the point i was making. These never go to court. They always settle ahead of time, normally the day before and with a NDA as part of the package.

 

They are normally used to cover work secrets. So I would expect contractors to be working under NDAs to cover anything they may here/see and would expect this to be standard practice by most companies where secrets could be given to opposition. So just because a contractor was under NDA doesn't mean something went wrong?

[hutch]

...

Edited 12 October, 2012 by hutch

[Special K]

If it's a construction dispute it will either go to Adjudication or Arbitration (unusal these days) or referred to the Technology & Construction Court if it's found that adjudication is not covered as an agreed form of dispute resolution. Cases will eventually come into the public domain (although you have to know where to look), but generally only after decision, when everyone has fallen out big time. But these things have a habit of being resolved before judgement although they wouldn't be "hidden" either.

[Special K]

So, anybody know if Leadbitter are back on site yet? I can only imagine it is a very tricky "specification issue" to resolve if they haven't been working for a couple of weeks! Or should "specification" be replaced with "payment"?

[Gordon Mockles]

I just thought it seemed a bit odd that you would make reference to him treating 'poor' people badly, which hasn't really got anything to do with ambition.

 

Didn't Turkish or somebody mention a while back that Les Reed actually acts as the conduit between NC and NA, and has before convinced NC not to sack the manager?

 

My point which you seem to have missed is the attitude of bankers. Not my favourite people & a law unto themselves. Judging by reports since Cortese's arrival, he's no different. "Sue me, I've got loads of money" attitude.

 

Les Reed clearly has Cortese's ear & the board did persuade Cortese to keep Adkins against Cortese's "take no sh*t" attitude early season which would have been a ridiculously harsh decision of rumours are to be believed. It's that same old scenario, a manager should be left to manage. Forgetting what I have heard, team selections & sub decisions I truly do not believe are solely coming from Adkins & I don't care what anyone says, I trust my instincts & feel assured on that. I also feel Ricky will be gone if an offer comes in Jan since Rodriguez is clearly favoured despite him disappointing me greatly. Ricky looks sharp & him playing second fiddle is a ridiculous decision. Sorry to drift off topic.

[Dig Dig]

My point which you seem to have missed is the attitude of bankers. Not my favourite people & a law unto themselves. Judging by reports since Cortese's arrival, he's no different. "Sue me, I've got loads of money" attitude.

 

Les Reed clearly has Cortese's ear & the board did persuade Cortese to keep Adkins against Cortese's "take no sh*t" attitude early season which would have been a ridiculously harsh decision of rumours are to be believed. It's that same old scenario, a manager should be left to manage. Forgetting what I have heard, team selections & sub decisions I truly do not believe are solely coming from Adkins & I don't care what anyone says, I trust my instincts & feel assured on that. I also feel Ricky will be gone if an offer comes in Jan since Rodriguez is clearly favoured despite him disappointing me greatly. Ricky looks sharp & him playing second fiddle is a ridiculous decision. Sorry to drift off topic.

 

I wouldn't trust your instincts if I were you.

[jawillwill]

I also feel Ricky will be gone if an offer comes in Jan since Rodriguez is clearly favoured despite him disappointing me greatly. Ricky looks sharp & him playing second fiddle is a ridiculous decision. Sorry to drift off topic.

 

In the league so far this season Rickie Lambert has played 513 minutes and J-Rod has played just 328. The rest of your post is bull**** too.

[Turkish]

In the league so far this season Rickie Lambert has played 513 minutes and J-Rod has played just 328. The rest of your post is bull**** too.

 

Of course its bulls*it, it's not happy clappy positivity claiming everyone involved at SFC is the greatest person whoever lived.

[capitalsaint]

Of course its bulls*it, it's not happy clappy positivity claiming everyone involved at SFC is the greatest person whoever lived.

 

Do you agree that Les Reed is a bad influence on NC? 'Cos that's what old Mockles thinks.

[Turkish]

Do you agree that Les Reed is a bad influence on NC? 'Cos that's what old Mockles thinks.

 

He didn't say that at all. He said Reid persuaded Cortese to keep Adkins. Do you consider doing this a bad influence?

[capitalsaint]

I question Les Reed's involvement & his influence on Cortese.

 

He basically does. I defended Reed as I think he's a good influence.

[Turkish]

He basically does. I defended Reed as I think he's a good influence.

 

As proven by him persuading Cortese to keep Adkins, which Mockles clearly says. I know he has Cortese ear and I know that in the past he persuaded Cortese to keep Adkins, not this season, but in the past. Overall I think he's a good influence and Cortese listens to him, he calms Cortese down when he flies off the handle, which he does regularly. Still, I'm sure all, of what I'm saying will be dismissed as bulls*it.

[Thedelldays]

As proven by him persuading Cortese to keep Adkins, which Mockles clearly says. I know he has Cortese ear and I know that in the past he persuaded Cortese to keep Adkins, not this season, but in the past. Overall I think he's a good influence and Cortese listens to him, he calms Cortese down when he flies off the handle, which he does regularly. Still, I'm sure all, of what I'm saying will be dismissed as bulls*it.

 

If nc has to be persuaded to keep adkins.... How long on this quite frankly poor rub and this showing of defensive chaos will he go on for?

[capitalsaint]

As proven by him persuading Cortese to keep Adkins, which Mockles clearly says. I know he has Cortese ear and I know that in the past he persuaded Cortese to keep Adkins, not this season, but in the past. Overall I think he's a good influence and Cortese listens to him, he calms Cortese down when he flies off the handle, which he does regularly. Still, I'm sure all, of what I'm saying will be dismissed as bulls*it.

 

What are you on about? Your info has already been used once on this thread to support a point, basically the opposite of dismissing it.

[Turkish]

What are you on about? Your info has already been used once on this thread to support a point, basically the opposite of dismissing it.

 

I'm saying Reid seems to be a good influence on Cortese. I'm agreeing with you you plank! Mockles says Reid saved Adkins job as well, unless you think him doing that is a negative thing?

[hypochondriac]

If nc has to be persuaded to keep adkins.... How long on this quite frankly poor rub and this showing of defensive chaos will he go on for?

 

I didn't think Adkins would survive the season and I still don't think he will.

[hutch]

So help me out here, has the work been stopped because Cortese hasn't got the balls to sack Adkins, or is it because Les Reed did a sh*the job at Charlton? I'm afraid I got lost.

[Saint Without a Halo]

I didn't think Adkins would survive the season and I still don't think he will.

 

Far too early to say

[paris]

Can we get bck to the Bricks & mortar issue coming to a halt plse !!!!!!!

[hypochondriac]

Far too early to say

 

Why? How can it be too early to offer an opinion?

[St_Tel49]

Whoah there tiger. I would much prefer to form an opinion and then cherry pick the evidence, inuendo and rumour that supports it. That way I know I'm always right.

I love it This means that any poster who posts anything on here is always right - just like we all knew we were

[sir woody]

I'm not worried about putting something on here that is true, why should i be. It's a fact and yes you are right various companies have signed nda's with sfc. Bog standard working procedures in this day and age. The dispute is purely about money and leadbitter will not return until it is paid.

[Charlie Wayman]

Construction specifications always end up being full of grey areas that aren't always spotted at the time of tender, but do come to light when it comes to doing the physical work. As mentioned above, typically an employer will employ a Project Management firm to manage the Contractor on their behalf, but that role used to be carried out by the architect and that could well be the case in this instance.

 

That is probably right but it is nigh impossible to dot every i and cross every T in a building specification. Architects are designers not quality surveyors or construction engineers and of course in a low cost project like this the chances of all the writings being joined up are slim. No doubt the Club thought they were getting 'this' and the contractor thought they meant it wanted 'that' with 'that' always being far less than 'this'.

 

Remember what happened when you got your extension built or your garden landscaped? Or you car repaired? hans up all those who are still friends with the garage where you bought your last car. It is not deceit as such just expectations v reality for the number of chips being spent.

 

For the aforementioned statue of Guly the Magician, we probably just said "make it gold", expecting it to be embossed with gold leaf whereas the painter assumed we meant he'd pop round to B & Q and but a can of hammerite!

[bjk]

Work gets underway again this week my company has 10 lorry loads of concrete going there on wednesday and thursday for the swimming pool.

[paris]

How can this be true i thought everything had ben scrapped due to us going out of business ....

[Frank's cousin]

I have absolutely no idea why the work stopped - and I have absolutely no idea if any of those who claim they do, have any idea either - or how much is BS speculation, rumour etc.

 

But the thing I would like to know is why whenever we hear such 'stories' - when it comes to speculation its always negative? Why is it that the assumption is that something is 'going on' or that there is a major problem? Could it not just as easily be a positive reason? Could the club be changing the specs to further improve the design? Could there be a more simple and less 'dramaqueenbedwettingesque' reason?

 

Just amazes me that 'happyclappy' (or a positive attitude) is considered negative, yet 'doomandgloomcortesefeckedupandisadisaster' is the 'positive' way to be...

[Turkish]

I have absolutely no idea why the work stopped - and I have absolutely no idea if any of those who claim they do, have any idea either - or how much is BS speculation, rumour etc.

 

But the thing I would like to know is why whenever we hear such 'stories' - when it comes to speculation its always negative? Why is it that the assumption is that something is 'going on' or that there is a major problem? Could it not just as easily be a positive reason? Could the club be changing the specs to further improve the design? Could there be a more simple and less 'dramaqueenbedwettingesque' reason?

 

Just amazes me that 'happyclappy' (or a positive attitude) is considered negative, yet 'doomandgloomcortesefeckedupandisadisaster' is the 'positive' way to be...

 

I heard that The training ground work has been stopped because Cortese is such a great guy he wanted to pay the builders straight away at and more than what they agreed as he was so impressed with the work done so far, they had to ammend contracts due to this which has held things up.

 

There you go. Happy clappy rumour to spread.

[Ken Tone]

I have absolutely no idea why the work stopped - and I have absolutely no idea if any of those who claim they do, have any idea either - or how much is BS speculation, rumour etc.

 

But the thing I would like to know is why whenever we hear such 'stories' - when it comes to speculation its always negative? Why is it that the assumption is that something is 'going on' or that there is a major problem? Could it not just as easily be a positive reason? Could the club be changing the specs to further improve the design? Could there be a more simple and less 'dramaqueenbedwettingesque' reason?

 

Just amazes me that 'happyclappy' (or a positive attitude) is considered negative, yet 'doomandgloomcortesefeckedupandisadisaster' is the 'positive' way to be...

 

I don't know about everyone else, but whilst I have never spread negative rumours, let alone started them, I confess to being far too ready to believe the ones I read on here. I suspect it is quite simply that things have gone so well lately after the crap we went through before, that it seems unreal -- just all feels too good to be true!

 

I still pinch myself occasionally to make sure I'm not dreaming. Frightened I might wake up to find us actually languishing in mid-table L1.

[Frank's cousin]

I heard that The training ground work has been stopped because Cortese is such a great guy he wanted to pay the builders straight away at and more than what they agreed as he was so impressed with the work done so far, they had to ammend contracts due to this which has held things up.

 

There you go. Happy clappy rumour to spread.

 

I herad it was stopped whilst he consulted you on whether the investment and development was big enough for our future ambitions.

[Frank's cousin]

I don't know about everyone else, but whilst I have never spread negative rumours, let alone started them, I confess to being far too ready to believe the ones I read on here. I suspect it is quite simply that things have gone so well lately after the crap we went through before, that it seems unreal -- just all feels too good to be true!

 

I still pinch myself occasionally to make sure I'm not dreaming. Frightened I might wake up to find us actually languishing in mid-table L1.

 

I dont think you are alone in that... and to be honest, I am not suggesting that when negative rumours appear, we ignore them and bury heads in sand or walk about covering our ears saying 'i'm not listening' - just that there needs to be a more appropriate sense of perspective - eg evne a dispute with contractors (if that were the reason) is not ncessarily a BAD thing - it happens all the time... but I suspect we have some posters only too happy to use these stories to reinforce tehir own paranoia, suspicons and general dislike for Cortese so it serves one purpose anyway...

[Dig Dig]

I heard that The training ground work has been stopped because Cortese is such a great guy he wanted to pay the builders straight away at and more than what they agreed as he was so impressed with the work done so far, they had to ammend contracts due to this which has held things up.

 

There you go. Happy clappy rumour to spread.

 

 

Cheers for the info!

[JustMike]

Has work started again?

[Turkish]

Has work started again?

 

The specific specification is still to be agreed on.