Saint-Armstrong Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 Number of long-balls played in the PL so far this season: 78 - Newcastle United 69 - Everton 67 - Reading 67 - Wigan Athletic 66 - Liverpool 65 - Chelsea 65 - Fulham 65 - West Ham United 64 - West Bromwich Albion 62 - Aston Villa 62 - Sunderland 61 - Tottenham Hotspur 60 - Norwich City 59 - Queens Park Rangers 59 - Stoke City 56 - Manchester United 55 - Swansea City 54 - Manchester City 51 - Southampton 49 - Arsenal Quite a good read on playing styles, long-ball and passing football: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2211864/West-Ham-play-like-Real-Madrid-Barcelona--Neil-Ashton.html Try and read it if you can. Do any of those stats surprise you? Are you satisfied with our style, or should we become more 'direct'? We seemed to at the back end of last season at times. Do you believe in such a thing as passing or long ball football? Or is there just winning football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonroader07 Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 I think that with Mayuka (?? spelling) up front this could work as his pace is scary, I watched him at Staplewood a couple of weeks ago when my son was there and they were Sunday morning training and he is like lightning. The issue is that it would not suit Lambert so I guess if the two of them were up front we would have options; I am not sure NA likes options I think he just likes to play the way he wants to play!! Having said that Lee is also very quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 Saw this earlier. Very interesting. Even more impressive when you consider we have big Rickie up-top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 So what counts as a 'long ball' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 So what counts as a 'long ball' ? Otherwise known as the "Hooiveld Hoof"?!? :-) Some teams can make long ball work. How many times a long ball is in hit and how many times it works for a goal scoring chance isn't listed in the table above, that I'd like to see, but I'm surprised to see Stoke so low in the table, especially as they have Crouch up front. Reading however doesn't surprise me - they are looking for a way to stay in this division and long ball is one of those options they can use... but it's obviously not working for them at the moment. Perhaps QPR should try a few more long balls too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 Depends who's giving out the long balls as well. If you click on the link below and then passing and roll over LB you can see the completion rate and total number http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 Doesn't surprise me that Newcastle and Everton top the list. Everton looked better on Saturday when they started to play it on the deck more and spread play -till that point, we were dealt pretty comfortably with the hoofs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingwing Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 Good to see our long ball numbers are low. Still think we play a few too many, especially when panicking (like against Everton a bit, same for Arsenal) but it's important to keep it to a minimum, so for events like the pen against villa it will pay off properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 An aimless 'long ball' from CB to CF is completely different to a 'long ball' across the back, or a 'long ball' down the wing for a player to run into. All it says is that it is a pss of more than 25 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 So what counts as a 'long ball' ? According to the article, the Opta stats consider anything longer than 25 yards to be a long ball. That's not a great distance to kick a ball in a match in my opinion. A decent distance to score a goal from, but just a pass? As our Nigel would say, it is all about winning games of football. You play to your strengths and the opponent's weaknesses and if their midfield presses you back and you have a striker with devastating pace, the long ball over the top is a potent weapon in your armoury. I suspect that Newcastle use it to great effect because of Ba and Cisse. A canny manager will not play just one style of football lest it makes his team predictable. A mixture of good passing movement together with the odd long ball to catch a team out makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 So what counts as a 'long ball' ? If you had read the article you would know: "For the purposes of this analysis, produced by Opta and freely available on the excellent website whoscored.com, any attempted pass which is 25 yards or more constitutes a long ball" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 An aimless 'long ball' from CB to CF is completely different to a 'long ball' across the back, or a 'long ball' down the wing for a player to run into. All it says is that it is a pss of more than 25 yards. Exactly that. The stats don't tell us much at all. Look where Stoke are on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 (edited) Number of long-balls played in the PL so far this season: 78 - Newcastle United 69 - Everton 67 - Reading 67 - Wigan Athletic 66 - Liverpool 65 - Chelsea 65 - Fulham 65 - West Ham United 64 - West Bromwich Albion 62 - Aston Villa 62 - Sunderland 61 - Tottenham Hotspur 60 - Norwich City 59 - Queens Park Rangers 59 - Stoke City 56 - Manchester United 55 - Swansea City 54 - Manchester City 51 - Southampton 49 - Arsenal Quite a good read on playing styles, long-ball and passing football: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2211864/West-Ham-play-like-Real-Madrid-Barcelona--Neil-Ashton.html Try and read it if you can. Do any of those stats surprise you? Are you satisfied with our style, or should we become more 'direct'? We seemed to at the back end of last season at times. Do you believe in such a thing as passing or long ball football? Or is there just winning football? To start in the article it says this "After watching West Ham's impressive and stylish victory over QPR at Loftus Road". Stylish? not sure which game he was watching. Also opta just states a 'long ball' as a pass over 25m, a through ball from the centre circle to the edge of the box would be that distance. If it was aerial passes over say 50m (what I would call a 'long ball') then you might see different numbers. You also have to remember that better teams have far more possession so will play more passes generally. Look at the short passes per game standings:- Stoke have played a similar number of long balls per game (59) to say Man Utd (56) but Man Utd also play 521 short passes per game to Stokes 229. So Man Utd play a long on average 9% of the time. Stoke play a long ball on average 20% of the time. It's why that comparison to Real Madrid and Barcelona is stupid. Players like Xavi and Iniesta will complete 100 passes in a game, West Ham only complete an average of 320 passes as a whole. Edited 3 October, 2012 by tajjuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 I played against a team on Sunday and they bombarded our defence with long balls while we played it out from defence. Their couple of 22 year old did us groin blown oldies for speed and they won 7-4. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 seems fairly logical ..if you play to keep possession, then it's lots of short midfield passes......but teams with wingers and big front men play long punts upfield...... Whichever way.....our main probelm seems to be what we do with "the football " when we get into the last third ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 To start in the article it says this "After watching West Ham's impressive and stylish victory over QPR at Loftus Road". Stylish? not sure which game he was watching. Also opta just states a 'long ball' as a pass over 25m, a through ball from the centre circle to the edge of the box would be that distance. If it was aerial passes over say 50m (what I would call a 'long ball') then you might see different numbers. You also have to remember that better teams have far more possession so will play more passes generally. Look at the short passes per game standings:- Stoke have played a similar number of long balls per game (59) to say Man Utd (56) but Man Utd also play 521 short passes per game to Stokes 229. So Man Utd play a long on average 9% of the time. Stoke play a long ball on average 20% of the time. It's why that comparison to Real Madrid and Barcelona is stupid. Players like Xavi and Iniesta will complete 100 passes in a game, West Ham only complete an average of 320 passes as a whole. Exactly this: % of long balls to short passes is a far more meaningful measure while accepting that not every long ball is a speculative hoof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didcot Saint Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 Nearly all successful sides play a short passing game both league and internationally. Long ball nowadays is archaic and usually unsuccessful in the long term. Bright young managers like NA and Brendon Rodgers can see this whilst the football played by idiots like Big Sam and Pulis won't get them anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Number of long-balls played in the PL so far this season: 78 - Newcastle United 69 - Everton 67 - Reading 67 - Wigan Athletic 66 - Liverpool 65 - Chelsea 65 - Fulham 65 - West Ham United 64 - West Bromwich Albion 62 - Aston Villa 62 - Sunderland 61 - Tottenham Hotspur 60 - Norwich City 59 - Queens Park Rangers 59 - Stoke City 56 - Manchester United 55 - Swansea City 54 - Manchester City 51 - Southampton 49 - Arsenal Do any of those stats surprise you? Surprised Villa are so low given the presence of Bent, how they played against us and Paul Lambert's preference for big target men (eg Morison and Holt at Norwich), but then they haven't had much of the ball to be passing with. Completely unsurprised Newcastle are top of the list given their tendency to whack it up to Cisse or Ba, or Everton aiming for Fellaini's chest - which they didn't really need to do against us as they just ran through the holes in the middle instead and then killed the game off playing safe passes. Wigan didn't look that direct against us, and the bottom 5 is exactly as I'd expect. Stoke are quite low, but then they've always had more of a tendency to play it to wingers and cross as they have the set piece threat from corners and throw-ins, than play direct and long at Crouch in the middle of the park where the ball is less likely to go out of play. Though obviously the %ages above indicate they're not exactly averse to long balls either, some of those could be crosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 I played against a team on Sunday and they bombarded our defence with long balls while we played it out from defence. Their couple of 22 year old did us groin blown oldies for speed and they won 7-4. Nuff said. It's certainly a relevant consideration if the percentage of unforced errors is high. I'm assuming you didn't play in Villa v West Brom for the sake of argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Anyway you need to look at the percentage of accurate long balls to make any sense out of the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 It's amazing that such lazy journalism is allowed to compare West Ham with Barcelona and make assumptions just because they play a similar number of long balls. West Ham play on average per game:- 65 long balls, 320 short passes, 1 through ball and 28 crosses. Therefore they average 414 'passes' per game. Long balls account for 15.7% of their game. Barcelona play on average per game:- 59 long balls, 646 short passes, 7 through balls and 19 crosses. Therefore they average 731 'passes' per game. Long ball accounts for 8% of their game. West Ham are twice as likely to play a long ball than Barcelona I'm sure they would love Allardyce at the Camp Nou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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