Oh dear - these private companies, eh?

[bridge too far]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19782917

 

Poor, poor man

[badgerx16]

Not sure this is specifically to do with 'privatisation', human errors occur everywhere. The biggest issue I picked up from the radio programme when it was first broadcast is that it is now the Police who determine which tests are carried out on evidence - the example given was of a knife found at a murder scene where the Police asked for a determination of whether the victim's blood was on the blade, without asking for a test to find whether the blade was actually used to cause the lethal blow - they therefore had no evidence that the blade had penetrated the victim. It was strongly suggested that the with the FSS processing the evidence, all tests were available, rather than the new system which it is implied is governed by direct costs of the service to the Police, who consequently pick and choose what they want done.

Another issue is that the private firm's staff lack the professional qualifications and experience of the former FSS staff, most of whom have moved on to pastures new rather than being taken on by the private firms.

[trousers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19782917

 

Poor, poor man

 

Yeah, these kind of mistakes never happened at the FSS before privatisation...

 

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/49589-damilolas-parents-condemn-errors

 

Damilola's parents condemn 'errors'

 

Richard and Gloria Taylor demanded further action against three unnamed scientists from the Government's Forensic Science Service (FSS), whom they accused of making "basic mistakes".

 

The couple said they were enormously disappointed with the "dreadful errors" exposed in an official report commissioned by the Home Office.

 

The Taylors' solicitor, Neil O'May, said: "They believe that those responsible for these dreadful errors should be brought to account so that nothing like this could ever happen again.

 

The report describes the catalogue of errors as 'extremely regrettable' - a conclusion that the family feel is lame in the extreme. The Government should instead now act decisively to overhaul the quality of forensic science used in court."

 

The inquiry into the FSS's mistakes found they was down to "human error" rather than a failure in the system as whole.

 

Conducted by forensic expert Professor Brian Caddy and top barrister Alan Rawley QC, it said three FSS experts "failed to recover crucial evidence".

 

The report said that a new FSS service, in which items are examined twice by separate forensic scientists, should be adopted by police in major cases despite the extra cost. The new double-checking service would have added just £55,000 to the overall cost of the Damilola investigation.

 

Other recommendations were that each FSS laboratory should be evaluated at least once a year by specialist teams within the organisation, and there should be more emphasis on close co-operation between scientific officers and their supervisors.

 

Home Office minister Joan Ryan said: "I would like to express my sincere apologies to Damilola Taylor's family and acknowledge the further distress this has undoubtedly caused them." She would give full consideration to the report's recommendations after receiving a response from the FSS, she added.

 

...and that was in the days before the nasty Tory cuts...

[bridge too far]

Yeah, these kind of mistakes never happened at the FSS before privatisation...

 

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/49589-damilolas-parents-condemn-errors

 

 

 

...and that was in the days before the nasty Tory cuts...

 

But, but, but - so many people are so quick to blame the 'public sector' for apparent inadequacies. 'Tis only right that a more balanced picture is painted. And remember, with the public sector, the government / local government is subject to scrutiny, challenge and, ultimately, with losing power. The private sector isn't accountable to the people paying its bills (thee and me).

 

I see G4S is also in the news again today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-19788062

[trousers]

'Tis only right that a more balanced picture is painted.

 

Totally agree. Happy to have been of service on this thread....

[Turkish]

I met a bloke a few years ago who had been convicted of making up the results of DNA tests. He'd set up a company and people sent them their results for things like paternity tests and had basically made them up the whole time. He was sent down for 4 years.

[Bearsy]

Lol I like that. How was they catching him? Did someone send in like one of their hairs and one from the dog or something and get a "Oh yeah that's definitely ur son, no worries"

[Saint in Paradise]

Crime Labs in Crisis: Shoddy Forensics Used to Secure Convictions

by Matt Clarke

 

Very scarey and long article but well worth reading and remembering IF you are arrested and accused

of a crime you genuinely didn't commit.

 

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/%28S%28oy0shv4520stu555aljzwpyh%29%29/displayArticle.aspx?articleid=22698&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

 

I know this is in the U.S. BUT maybe it could happen in the UK as well?

"Crime lab workers are not necessarily scientists. In fact, sometimes only a high school diploma is required for employment as a forensic technician or arson investigator.

Nor are lab examiners and their supervisors always the unbiased investigators portrayed on TV; in fact, many crime labs are run by or affiliated with police departments,

which have a vested interest in clearing unsolved crimes and securing convictions."

Edited 1 October, 2012 by Saint in Paradise

[Johnny Bognor]

But, but, but - so many people are so quick to blame the 'public sector' for apparent inadequacies. 'Tis only right that a more balanced picture is painted. And remember, with the public sector, the government / local government is subject to scrutiny, challenge and, ultimately, with losing power. The private sector isn't accountable to the people paying its bills (thee and me).

 

I see G4S is also in the news again today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-19788062

 

Oh but it is accountable to those paying its' bills. If you don't like the product or service you go elsewhere. Simple.

 

The problem with most public services is that you can't go elsewhere and therefore have to put up with sub-standard service / attitudes. If I am not happy with one of the teachers in my kids school, voting for the local Lib Dem or Labour candidate won't make a difference.

 

So the ultimate sanction in the private sector is that customers vote with their feet. Private companies still make mistakes, but they are far more accountable. Offer a cr@p service and someone will come along offering a better service.

[trousers]

Oh but it is accountable to those paying its' bills. If you don't like the product or service you go elsewhere. Simple.

 

Indeed, but (sweeping statement alert) ..... the problem with most public services is that you can't go elsewhere and therefore have to put up with sub-standard service / attitudes. If I am not happy with one of the teachers in my kids school, voting for the local Lib Dem or Labour candidate won't make a difference.

 

So the ultimate sanction in the private sector is that customers vote with their feet. Private companies still make mistakes, but they are far more accountable. Offer a cr@p service and someone will come along offering a better service.

 

The trouble is that it's quite often a public service department holding the private companies to account...all of which adds up to one vicious circle because (in my experience) the public sector aren't very good at controlling and monitoring their private sector suppliers...catch 22!

 

It's all very well blaming the private sector companies for not delivering a good service but the root cause of this often lies at the door of those that commissioned them in the first place...

[badgerx16]

It's all very well blaming the private sector companies for not delivering a good service but the root cause of this often lies at the door of those that commissioned them in the first place...

 

Or with the interfering politicos who have to meddle and produce unintelligible regulations and impossible financial restrictions to govern the relationship between the public and private sectors.

[trousers]

Or with the interfering politicos who have to meddle and produce unintelligible regulations and impossible financial restrictions to govern the relationship between the public and private sectors.

 

Yep, that too. Any other legacies of 13 years of Labour government we can think of?

[Johnny Bognor]

It probably has less to do with Public vs Private. More to do with Monopoly Supply vs Competition. It just happens that with less competition in the Public Sector (by virtue of the services provided), complacency and incompetence creeps in.

[badgerx16]

Yep, that too. Any other legacies of 13 years of Labour government we can think of?

 

Not so many as the past couple of years of the slash and burn tactics of the ConDems.

[saint1977]

It probably has less to do with Public vs Private. More to do with Monopoly Supply vs Competition. It just happens that with less competition in the Public Sector (by virtue of the services provided), complacency and incompetence creeps in.

 

I agree with your first point but I'd love to be able to switch from the abysmal service I get from South West Water and First Great Western - problem is, I can't! They have a complete monopoly and recieve more taxpayers' money than they ever got as nationalised industries with zero accountability. Don't get me wrong, there are some privatised industries where competition has worked a bit better - say electricity - but for some posters, I'm not saying that you do, to see privatisation/nationalisation as an ideological panacea is frankly not very bright.