tajjuk Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 The cup final worked better than the lineup that got 6 goals smashed past it 4 days previous, yes . I know some people have got a rose-tinted view of Saints that its better to go out and try to attack and if we lose by 3 or 4 goals that's better than a narrow 1-0 defeat. I don't share that view. Who is describing Chaplow as the white Makalele? can you show me one quote where someone has said that? Or are you making it up? Against top sides away from home I'm suggesting there may be an argument to be made playing a more defensive midfielder than a striker at RM. If you think that's wrong, you carry on. And Lallana's role this season is entirely different to any he's had to play before. He's been able to be a flair, attacking player in one of the strongest teams in the division for 3 years. He's previously been released from the defensive shackles of a traditional wide midfielder because our team has often enjoyed the majority of posession and balance of play. That's not the case now; in away games we'll now be defending much more than attacking (at one point Man City had over 80% of posession against us); so to not set ourselves up to counter that is barmy IMO. Well trying to play for a draw in cup final is a bit of stupid idea in the first place seeing as you don't get any points:rolleyes: As I said chaplow isn't a defensive midfielder, nor is he good enough for the Prem. The result would have been worse. And I see your ridiculous Dickson suggestion has been completely forgotten from your subsequent posts. Yeh Lallana needs to adapt as does the whole team, not really a ground breaking statement there. I still see nothing in what you have said that gives credence to playing league 1 level players in the premiership aside from it gives the impression that we are more defensive.
The Kraken Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Well trying to play for a draw in cup final is a bit of stupid idea in the first place seeing as you don't get any points:rolleyes: Being still in a game at 1-0 down is infinitely better than being 5 or 6 down. As I said chaplow isn't a defensive midfielder, nor is he good enough for the Prem. The result would have been worse. How the f*ck do you know it would have been worse??!! Its an opinion, not a nailed on fact just because you say it is. Dear me. And I see your ridiculous Dickson suggestion has been completely forgotten from your subsequent posts. Yeh Lallana needs to adapt as does the whole team, not really a ground breaking statement there. I still see nothing in what you have said that gives credence to playing league 1 level players in the premiership aside from it gives the impression that we are more defensive. And no, mystatement about Dickson has not been forgotten at all. I said when I mentioned Dickson in the first place that it would never happen, as he's been completely frozen out, but that it was a potential option we could explore (particularly given our current injury situation). Our only other options at left back are a right back out of position, or a couple of lads who've never started a league game. So yeah, the notion of potentially including a player who is, you know, already in our squad of 25, is utterly ridiculous and we should just play Luke Shaw instead I suppose. As for your nonsense statement about playing "League 1 level players" in the Premier League; what are Kelvin Davis, Fraser Richardson, Morgan Schneiderlin, Adam Lallana, Jason Puncheon and Rickie Lambert? They played for us in League 1 and rose to the Premier League, didn't they?
sandwichsaint Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Lovin' it, it's Wednesday afternoon and we're all still at it, this never used to happen after we'd played a Plymouth or a Rochdale. The Premier League - where one game lasts all week!
The Kraken Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Lovin' it, it's Wednesday afternoon and we're all still at it, this never used to happen after we'd played a Plymouth or a Rochdale. The Premier League - where one game lasts all week! It has to; no midweek games (and less Saturday 3pm games) are IMO the worst things to leave behind from the lower leagues. Well, that and actually beating teams, of course....!
Dig Dig Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Just as a short term measure, I'm wondering if there's a case for Butterfield being used in a defensive midfield role, even if its just from the bench. With Hammond gone, Chaplow not really that position and Cork and Morgan both injured we're desperately short of cover there, and if (God forbid) we lose either of JWP or Davis mid-game there's really no genuine replacement left. No offence but Butterfield as a DM at this level......that's krackers!! I'd rather we played all our strikers instead of going down that road.
The Kraken Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 No offence but Butterfield as a DM at this level......that's krackers!! I'd rather we played all our strikers instead of going down that road. Put it this way; lets say Morgan is still injured and we go with a midfield 3 of Davis, JWP and Ramirez on Sunday (with a front 3 of, say, Lallana, Lambert and JRod). And lets say Davis gets injured after 15 minutes. Of everyone in the squad available to replace him from the bench, who would you choose? Its clearly a potential situation that NA will have to consider.
tajjuk Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 (edited) Being still in a game at 1-0 down is infinitely better than being 5 or 6 down. How the f*ck do you know it would have been worse??!! Its an opinion, not a nailed on fact just because you say it is. Dear me. And no, mystatement about Dickson has not been forgotten at all. I said when I mentioned Dickson in the first place that it would never happen, as he's been completely frozen out, but that it was a potential option we could explore (particularly given our current injury situation). Our only other options at left back are a right back out of position, or a couple of lads who've never started a league game. So yeah, the notion of potentially including a player who is, you know, already in our squad of 25, is utterly ridiculous and we should just play Luke Shaw instead I suppose. As for your nonsense statement about playing "League 1 level players" in the Premier League; what are Kelvin Davis, Fraser Richardson, Morgan Schneiderlin, Adam Lallana, Jason Puncheon and Rickie Lambert? They played for us in League 1 and rose to the Premier League, didn't they? 1. 1-0 or 6-0 you still loose the cup, it was an irrelevant statement, cup finals are nothing like away league games. 2. Because he's crap, we would have offered less going forward and wouldn't have done any better defensively because he's an ATTACKING PLAYER. 3. Some have proven good enough at this level in the first few games, Puncheon was playing Premiership football last year, Lallana, Morgan had championship experience. Some like KD have proven they aren't good enough. Key point - "They played for us in League 1 and rose to the Premier League", Dickson played 23 games in league one and then hasn't played for us since. So don't go comparing him to our first team players, it was a plainly silly suggestion to drop our Captain in favour of a guy that couldn't nail down a first team place in League 1 and has only played 5 games at Championship level in his entire career. Like I'm the one talking nonsense Edited 3 October, 2012 by tajjuk
The Kraken Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 1. 1-0 or 6-0 you still loose the cup, it was an irrelevant statement, cup finals are nothing like away league games. So you think in league games it doesn't matter if we're 1-0 down or 6-0 down with 10 minutes to go? Ok then. And it was an entirely relevant comparison as we played the same side twice within a week, with two different formations and two different outcomes. 2. Because he's crap, we would have offered less going forward and wouldn't have done any better defensively because he's an ATTACKING PLAYER. Again, your opinion only, not fact (HOWEVER HARD YOU THUMP YOUR KEYBOARD). If you're honestly trying to convince me that Chaplow is an attacking player akin to Rodriguez or Lallana then you're just going to have to stop. I don't even know what you're trying to do here. I've registered what is only my opinion. You, on the other hand, seem intent on registering yours as fact. It frankly bizarre. Perhaps you need to have a sit down and realise that, sometimes, people disagree with each other, instead of consistently telling them they're wrong, talking nonsense and insisting that your way is the only shining light.
Saint Garrett Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Chaplow isn't disciplined enough to play a defensive role though. This is why he hasnt played CM for us for a good few seasons now.
Dig Dig Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Put it this way; lets say Morgan is still injured and we go with a midfield 3 of Davis, JWP and Ramirez on Sunday (with a front 3 of, say, Lallana, Lambert and JRod). And lets say Davis gets injured after 15 minutes. Of everyone in the squad available to replace him from the bench, who would you choose? Its clearly a potential situation that NA will have to consider. Yoshida would probably be the best choice if we had to.
The Kraken Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Chaplow isn't disciplined enough to play a defensive role though. This is why he hasnt played CM for us for a good few seasons now. Would he play less of a defensive role than Jay Rodriguez? Because that is the discussion, not whether he would be a CM.
The Kraken Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Yoshida would probably be the best choice if we had to. Yep, that's the only other option I can see. But one that IMO weakens the CB back line to Fonte and Jos. People say that Yoshida used to play CM, its not entirely true: Born in Nagasaki, Japan, Yoshida had been a defensive midfielder when playing for Grampus's youth team, but was converted to a centre back after promotion to its top team in 2007. So he hasn't played CM for 5 years now; whoever goes in there is not going to be a natural fit. I wonder whether Hammond would have got a look in had he not gone out on loan with Brighton.
Dig Dig Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Im sure hammond would have got a look in if we only had 1 CM available
The Kraken Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Im sure hammond would have got a look in if we only had 1 CM available Agreed, which makes it a shame we got rid of him I suppose. To be honest I thought it looked like he'd run out of legs by the end of last season, but some of his reviews from Brighton have been very favourable and they look like they'll be knocking on the door of promotion. Good job JWP has come through the ranks, if not we'd be a little buggered right now with Cork out for another month and Morgan a bit of an unknown.
jam Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Agreed, which makes it a shame we got rid of him I suppose. To be honest I thought it looked like he'd run out of legs by the end of last season, but some of his reviews from Brighton have been very favourable and they look like they'll be knocking on the door of promotion. Good job JWP has come through the ranks, if not we'd be a little buggered right now with Cork out for another month and Morgan a bit of an unknown. For me Hammond's lack of pace makes it hard to see him doing a job for us in this division. Every so often people mention Fonte playing in midfield - does anyone know if he's ever actually played there? Incidentally, I don't think Butterfield is that bad a shout. Going from full back to defensive midfielder isn't unknown and he knows how to read the game and make a pass. It'd be nice to think that Dickson would fit into that role but that's just sentiment on my part...
Turkish Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Dortmund are giving a great example of how to play away from home. Yes I know they are a much better side than us but they are compact and solid and breaking at pace. And their fans look and sound superb.
Thedelldays Posted 3 October, 2012 Posted 3 October, 2012 Dortmund are giving a great example of how to play away from home. Yes I know they are a much better side than us but they are compact and solid and breaking at pace. And their fans look and sound superb. one up front..packing the midfield.....making city play it long and not going gung ho...was thinking the same thing...
Bucks Saint Posted 4 October, 2012 Posted 4 October, 2012 Dortmund are giving a great example of how to play away from home. Yes I know they are a much better side than us but they are compact and solid and breaking at pace. And their fans look and sound superb. About a hundred of the Dortmund fans went to Bolton to watch the game v Leeds the night before. Thats hardcore away fans - was pretty impressed
Legod Third Coming Posted 5 October, 2012 Posted 5 October, 2012 Jesus wept, Hammond is a suggestion for a Premiership midfield? I know football is about opinions, but you could have an opinion the moon was made of cream cheese and you would be just as wrong...
The Kraken Posted 5 October, 2012 Posted 5 October, 2012 Jesus wept, Hammond is a suggestion for a Premiership midfield? I know football is about opinions, but you could have an opinion the moon was made of cream cheese and you would be just as wrong... You dredged this thread up just to come back with that?
Dig Dig Posted 5 October, 2012 Posted 5 October, 2012 You dredged this thread up just to come back with that? Yea, obviously a ridiculous notion that if we only had 1 fit CM from our first choice 4 that we would use our Captain of last season to play in his natural roll if he was available
david in sweden Posted 6 October, 2012 Posted 6 October, 2012 How many tactical mistakes is he allowed? . this thread seems to have gone on for a very long time Dibden..... without anyone agreeing / or offering any real solution. The answer surely has to be ...as many (mistakes) as it takes to learn the lessons.......and keep us in the Prem. Nigel (like most of our players) is new to the top echelon and it takes time to adapt. The players trust him and it will work out... perhaps later rather than sooner.
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 7 October, 2012 Author Posted 7 October, 2012 Will taking Lambert off be another?
OldNick Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 Will taking Lambert off be another? absolute madness, he does not learn. His first mistake was not having the courage to put Reeves on instead of Jos
Mabes Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 reeves or chappers should of come on at right back. Jos been found wanting today, very very poor. and J rod is not a premier leage stricker.... his chance on 85 mins prooves that!!!!
ponto1963 Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 ********, why does he take Lambert off !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Redondo Saint Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 Lambert and Puncheon changed the game in favour of Fulham in my opinion. 2nd half way too deep.
Aura Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 Will be gone quiet soon just bidding time for now he has cost us some points with his awful subs.
Suhari Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 Very poor subs today, and shocking team setup after them. I can understand the SRL change if he was knackered; had done a lot of running. Chapliw coming on is baffling though. I'm starting to worry about, and for Adkins now.
Thedelldays Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 I'm now convinced adkins won't last and, sadly... Does not have what it takes right now He is making the same daft crap subs.... Again and again Puncheon was miles better than lallana and look dangerous most of the time Lambert is always good for a goal and our talisman when we had to win I expect adkins will be gone soon enough as to me, it is clear that he is in the prem just too soon
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 The thing Adkins forgets is that Lambert is probably our best defender as well. Taking off our best two attacking threats in a home game where the opposition are there for the taking is asking for trouble if it doesn't come off. Well, here comes trouble. I turned this afternoon and i won't be the only one. Adkins needs help, or at least someone else to be in charge of substitutions, as he clearly hasn't got a clue what he is doing.
MOSaint Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 Can kind of understand why Lambert came off, he start out well but as the game went on he faded badly, was doing nothing when he went off. The worst sub was the one he was forced to make. 1 OG, one deflection and a fair few individual errors. Just a shame the Clyne and Cork, who can cover at RB are both injured.
rick1976.4.38 Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 strange to take rickie off,maybe doing that he should have played mayuka so there would have been abit of pace up front.with twenty odd minutes to go thought it nearly cost us the game. dont think nigel has learnt from our game against united. dont want na to go but if he does keep getting it wrong can see cortese saying goodbye
Thedelldays Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 How lallana remains on the pitch when Puncheon comes off is odd...
golfdelsur Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 Adkins is out of his depth simple as that, making mistakes is fine if you learn from them, he hasn't
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 7 October, 2012 Author Posted 7 October, 2012 Can kind of understand why Lambert came off, he start out well but as the game went on he faded badly, was doing nothing when he went off. The worst sub was the one he was forced to make. 1 OG, one deflection and a fair few individual errors. Just a shame the Clyne and Cork, who can cover at RB are both injured. He was out of position though on the left flank, that was the initial mistake trying to shoehorn Rodriguez in.
kpturner Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 Adkins is out of his depth simple as that, making mistakes is fine if you learn from them, he hasn'tHis first sub was forced and his second sub (Chaplow for Puncheon was probably correct). The only questionable one was the Lambert sub, but Guly did OK and certainly did not render us less potent up front. We were on the back foot for most of the second half anyway. I certainly do not accept the premise that today's subs were the reason we went from 1-0 to 1-2.
Wade Garrett Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 I'm not Adkins greatest fan, and game by game, he's doing little to turn me round.
the saint in winchester Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 =golfdelsur[/b];1495557]Adkins is out of his depth simple as that, making mistakes is fine if you learn from them, he hasn't Assume your user name represents your location? I'll be at Sunningdale Village at christmas. I'll bring my Saints replica shirt. I'll be watching games at the irish bar opposite the Aguamarina. See you there?
View From The Top Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 Alas I feel he's out of his depth. I believe he'll be gone sooner rather than later which is a great pity but that's football.
the saint in winchester Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 Have to say I think the next 2 weeks are potential announcement times re the manager's position. Especially tomorrow morning. A new manager would have a fortnight to work with the squad. Don't want to lose Adkins, but NC has to decide whether to give him the season and run the risk of repeatedly coming away empty-handed in games we were winning, or making the change. No guarantee another manager would do better. Twist? Or stick? The decision is yours, Mr C.
S-Clarke Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 Have to say I think the next 2 weeks are potential announcement times re the manager's position. Especially tomorrow morning. A new manager would have a fortnight to work with the squad. Don't want to lose Adkins, but NC has to decide whether to give him the season and run the risk of repeatedly coming away empty-handed in games we were winning, or making the change. No guarantee another manager would do better. Twist? Or stick? The decision is yours, Mr C. Pretty sure he will stick. We've had a tough start fixture wise, we have a threadbare squad hit by injury's at the moment. And amazingly, we're out of the bottom 3. If we're in the bottom 3, by a few points, come mid-jan than I think he'll possibly act. But he's earned a fair bit of slack as far as I'm concerned.
BotleySaint Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 You can't really blame Adkins for Hooivelds attempt at winning the golden boot this season.
Webby Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 If he's booted, and big if, who would replace him? Who would do better, really? And unless NC has someone to come in immediately then it would only make matters worse running under caretaker management. I would stick with Adkins.
Wade Garrett Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 If he's booted, and big if, who would replace him? Who would do better, really? And unless NC has someone to come in immediately then it would only make matters worse running under caretaker management. I would stick with Adkins. I agree with this part of your post 100%. Caretaker managers we've had in the past have been absolute nightmares (Dodd/Gorman, Wilkins). No point getting rid of the manager unless we have someone lined up to replace him. I do think there are experienced managers out there who would get more out of our squad though.
S-Clarke Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 I agree with this part of your post 100%. Caretaker managers we've had in the past have been absolute nightmares (Dodd/Gorman, Wilkins). No point getting rid of the manager unless we have someone lined up to replace him. I do think there are experienced managers out there who would get more out of our squad though. Care to name a few?
Thedelldays Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 You can't really blame Adkins for Hooivelds attempt at winning the golden boot this season. You can... He put him on the pitch
Wade Garrett Posted 7 October, 2012 Posted 7 October, 2012 Care to name a few? Not really. Will probably start a hysterical 'debate'.
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