How many tactical mistakes is Adkins allowed?

[Barry the Badger]

No, the point was that the tactics didn't cost us the game, m'kay. So there were no tactical errors that cost us the game.

 

Peeps, please read the post. The point I am making is not tgat he doesn't get the tactics right eventually, it's that a lot of his tactics are costing us games.

 

I did read the post. You didn't say anything about tactics costing us the game. You said in nearly every game he made tactical mistakes and then that he made no tactical mistakes against Villa.

 

Losing = tactical mistakes. Winning = no tactical mistakes. Like it or not that is what you said and it shows you up to be an idiot.

[The Kraken]

To be fair I'm not a football manager, but here goes:

 

Gazza

 

Richardson Fonte Yoshida Clyne

 

Davis Ward Prowse

 

Ramirez Guly Lallana

 

Lambert

 

 

Standard 4-5-1 to 4-3-3 (obviously defence and attacking formations)

 

So your solution to yesterday's problems would be to play Guly instead of JRod. That's it? Really? Wow.

[S-Clarke]

At least we actually got an 11 out of you, but now you see the problem. We didn't really have another way of playing yesterday with the players we had available.

 

Guly in midfield is wrong, and Adkins would have been lambasted (probably by you) if he'd have done it, and we'd lost anyway.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Anyway his name is Adkins not Askins. Just so you all know.

 

Thanks for that valuable input. Fyi I am writing on my phone and you can't edit titles.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

So your solution to yesterday's problems would be to play Guly instead of JRod. That's it? Really? Wow.

 

With Guly being more dynamic in the centre it means that Fellaini would sit more not allowing them to overrun us in midfield.

[Wade Garrett]

Christ, you know your squad is lacking depth when Chaplow is the answer.

 

He was half decent for us last season before his injury. Big deep squads take time to assemble. In a year or two's time, we'll hopefully have a few of the now youngsters more than ready to play. Ward-Prowse, for example, will be a great player.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

At least we actually got an 11 out of you, but now you see the problem. We didn't really have another way of playing yesterday with the players we had available.

 

Guly in midfield is wrong, and Adkins would have been lambasted (probably by you) if he'd have done it, and we'd lost anyway.

 

Guly as an attacking mid is what you need, as shown when he came on against City.

[S-Clarke]

With Guly being more dynamic in the centre it means that Fellaini would sit more not allowing them to overrun us in midfield.

 

It really wouldn't. We'd still be over run in midfield, as Guly is not a central midfield player. He is an attacking forward/striker/winger. Playing him in midfield is suicide really, and it would kind have been like hanging the poor guy out to dry.

[Nexstar]

To be fair I'm not a football manager, but here goes:

 

Gazza

 

Richardson Fonte Yoshida Clyne

 

Davis Ward Prowse

 

Ramirez Guly Lallana

 

Lambert

 

 

Standard 4-5-1 to 4-3-3 (obviously defence and attacking formations)

 

You don't say!

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I did read the post. You didn't say anything about tactics costing us the game. You said in nearly every game he made tactical mistakes and then that he made no tactical mistakes against Villa.

 

Losing = tactical mistakes. Winning = no tactical mistakes. Like it or not that is what you said and it shows you up to be an idiot.

 

Fine, he hasn't made any tactical mistakes then, have it your way.

[Barry the Badger]

With Guly being more dynamic in the centre it means that Fellaini would sit more not allowing them to overrun us in midfield.

 

Bloody hell!

 

Quick somebody phone Sir Alex and let him know that United would not have lost to Everton if he'd bought Guly in the summer and played him at Centre Mid to counteract Fellaini.

 

Yep, you're right. Playing Guly there would have COMPLETELY changed the game yesterday. Well done.

[The Kraken]

With Guly being more dynamic in the centre it means that Fellaini would sit more not allowing them to overrun us in midfield.

 

With Guly being more dynamic than what, exactly?

[Turkish]

He was half decent for us last season before his injury. Big deep squads take time to assemble. In a year or two's time, we'll hopefully have a few of the now youngsters more than ready to play. Ward-Prowse, for example, will be a great player.

 

The problem with Chaplow is every seems to remember his handful of good games before he got injured, where he was also playing in a team which was on fire and not the other two years where he was average at best.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

With Guly being more dynamic than what, exactly?

 

JRod...

[Wade Garrett]

:lol:

 

No, seriously, what would you suggest?

 

With my best hindsight glasses on, how about this:

 

Gazza

Richardson, Fonte, Jos, Clyne

 

Davis, Yoshida,

 

Chaplow, Ramirez, Lallana,

 

Lambert

 

Bit more balance, a bit more defensive-minded, and players playing in positions they are comfortable in (Yoshida was a defensive midfielder originally).

 

I feel really sorry for Rodriguez, continually being asked to play out of position, and taking pelters when he doesn't play well.

[Turkish]

With Guly being more dynamic in the centre it means that Fellaini would sit more not allowing them to overrun us in midfield.

 

Guly, dynamic? Are you sure?

[Turkish]

With my best hindsight glasses on, how about this:

 

Gazza

Richardson, Fonte, Jos, Clyne

 

Davis, Yoshida,

 

Chaplow, Ramirez, Lallana,

 

Lambert

 

Bit more balance, a bit more defensive-minded, and players playing in positions they are comfortable in (Yoshida was a defensive midfielder originally).

 

I feel really sorry for Rodriguez, continually being asked to play out of position, and taking pelters when he doesn't play well.

 

A centre back in midfield? Jesus Christ. This reminds me of the glorious 'dan Harding for centre midfield' thread from 2010.

[Wade Garrett]

The problem with Chaplow is every seems to remember his handful of good games before he got injured, where he was also playing in a team which was on fire and not the other two years where he was average at best.

 

I'm not saying he should be first-choice. But as a squad member, he should be picked in his natural position when injuries dictate.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Bloody hell!

 

Quick somebody phone Sir Alex and let him know that United would not have lost to Everton if he'd bought Guly in the summer and played him at Centre Mid to counteract Fellaini.

 

Yep, you're right. Playing Guly there would have COMPLETELY changed the game yesterday. Well done.

 

So you still think playing JRod out of position is better than playing Guly? I don't, and I think it was a mistake.

[Turkish]

So you still think playing JRod out of position is better than playing Guly? I don't, and I think it was a mistake.

 

I agree with you there, it hasn't worked anytime its been played.

[lordswoodsaints]

So far it seems that nearly every game has seen tactical mistakes by Adkins.

 

City - Not starting Lambert

United - Taking off our best 3 players

Wigan - Starting with wrong formation

Arsenal - Just the whole game in general!

Villa - None

Everton - Starting with wrong formation

 

How many tactical mistakes is he allowed? Is he allowed carte blanche to make mistakes due to him getting us promoted 2 seasons running, or at what point do we decide he doesn't have the tactical nous for the Premiership? This season is starting to remind me of Poortvliets due to the fact that we are giving a good account of ourselves early in the season but with no cigar. I hope I am wrong.

 

I think you will find that there are a few on here who will turn a blind eye to everything even if it means relegation which to me is stupid,For me staying in the prem has to be the priority and if the manager is unable to provide that then it's time to move on.

[Turkish]

I'm not saying he should be first-choice. But as a squad member, he should be picked in his natural position when injuries dictate.

 

Yep, if he is the only option, at least he'll give us a bit of energy in midfield I guess.

[Wade Garrett]

A centre back in midfield? Jesus Christ.

 

Yes, I think with the injuries we had, this wouldn't have been a bad move. He's played there before, is quick, decent in the tackle, and a good passer. I'm not saying that should be his position, but he's probably the nearest we had to Morgan yesterday.

 

Would be interested in your alternatives.

[Turkish]

I think you will find that there are a few on here who will turn a blind eye to everything even if it means relegation which to me is stupid,For me staying in the prem has to be the priority and if the manager is unable to provide that then it's time to move on.

 

Yep, a few on here don't seem to care if we get relegated as Apparantly we a already ahead of the 5 year plan. Which is mental logic.

[Window Cleaner]

The problem with Chaplow is every seems to remember his handful of good games before he got injured, where he was also playing in a team which was on fire and not the other two years where he was average at best.

 

What is more i don't think he played a single league game in CM last season, it's a specialist role not one for odd job men.

Chaplow is far too erratic in both tackling and ball control to be considered as an adequate replacement in CM. Last season virtually the whole of the CM burden was borne by Morgan,Deano and Cork.Now we come to a 2/3/4/5 game period where none

of them are available to us. Davis might be OK but he needs a real enforcer alongside him, against Arsenal he played the more defensive role of the 2 in the first half and we got taken apart, 2nd half Morgan moved back and we were more stable.

 

Depending on the seriousness of both injuries we might even need to go looking for an out of contract CM of some quality, won't be easy to find though, guess we'd have to look at places where the season runs at a different period of the year and contracts are up already.

Edited 30 September, 2012 by Window Cleaner

[Dalek2003]

I am not that bothered about getting relegated as I think it was covered in the five year plan. wibble...wibble

[Turkish]

Yes, I think with the injuries we had, this wouldn't have been a bad move. He's played there before, is quick, decent in the tackle, and a good passer. I'm not saying that should be his position, but he's probably the nearest we had to Morgan yesterday.

 

Would be interested in your alternatives.

 

Unfortunately Chaplow is the only option, midfield 3 of Davis, JWP and Chaplow. I'm certainly not an advocate of playing players pout of position, especially when they are new to the team.

 

At home the 4-2-3-1 worked fine against Villa so I'd stick with that for Fulham.

[Wade Garrett]

Unfortunately Chaplow is the only option, midfield 3 of Davis, JWP and Chaplow. I'm certainly not an advocate of playing players pout of position, especially when they are new to the team.

 

At home the 4-2-3-1 worked fine against Villa so I'd stick with that for Fulham.

 

I reckon the 4-2-3-1 with Chaplow on the right would have given us a more solid look defensively than what we had. With the players we had out, it looked odd having Jos on the bench.

[Wade Garrett]

I am not that bothered about getting relegated as I think it was covered in the five year plan. wibble...wibble

 

Stick some pencils up your nose Dalek. The men in white coats won't be far away.

[Turkish]

I reckon the 4-2-3-1 with Chaplow on the right would have given us a more solid look defensively than what we had. With the players we had out, it looked odd having Jos on the bench.

 

Away from home yes, he'd give protection to th full back which has been missing, but it's worrying that we are depending on a player who's been average in lower divisions.

[The Kraken]

Away from home yes, he'd give protection to th full back which has been missing, but it's worrying that we are depending on a player who's been average in lower divisions.

 

Unfortunately just a by-product of our injuries. Ordinarily in that position we could have Jack Cork or JWP; Chaplow (probably rightly) wouldn't get a look-in with a full strength squad available.

 

For Fulham its a different story though. I hope we get at them, 4-2-3-1 with Lallana, Ramirez and Mayuka as the "midfield" 3 behind RL. At home to Fulham is an entirely different prospect to away at Everton.

[shurlock]

Yoshida could play as a DM in the absence of Cork/Morgan - indeed he started his career as one. Got a nice touch and reads the game well.

[Wade Garrett]

Yoshida could play as a DM in the absence of Cork/Morgan - indeed he started his career as one. Got a nice touch and reads the game well.

 

No sh*t shurlock!

[Barry the Badger]

So you still think playing JRod out of position is better than playing Guly? I don't, and I think it was a mistake.

 

Not neccesarily, but it's not much of a choice is it? You are making out that there was this amazingly obvious solution that Adkins could have implemented, that he made some blinding mistake, and that your solution would have 'contained' Fellaini.

 

It wouldn't have made a difference. Adkins hands were tied when we lost Morgan.

[SaintRichmond]

Some posters are advocating bringing in Boruc, or even that he should have played v Everton

 

Why ??

 

Gazza (IMHO) has done little wrong so far. Does anyone suggest he would have had a better chance with any of Everton's goals ??

 

IF Boruc gets the nod in the next match, he will be confronted with the same problem as Gazza ........ a Defence that (due to playing instructions from Adkins) cannot defend. Even Shilton in his prime, or Joe Hart now, would not fare much better IMHO

 

Organising a defence is one thing, but you have to have players of the calibre to be ABLE to adapt

 

Unfortunately, we don't, and by January we will not be able to attract Quality players to us because I fear we will be rooted at the foot of the table

 

My opinion is, that Nicola's "mission" of getting Ramirez "at all costs" detracted in no small measure in strengthening (at the time) the Goalkeeping, and central defensive positions.

 

We are already suffering the consequences of that, but it will be Adkins who will bite the bullet for our now obvious shortcomings

[shurlock]

No sh*t shurlock!

 

Didn't see your post but, yes, agree with you. Better than suggestions that Fonte should be played in midfield.

[Window Cleaner]

 

It wouldn't have made a difference. Adkins hands were tied when we lost Morgan.

 

And then again when we lost Cork on Tuesday night. Must have known from last Saturday onwards that Morgan was out for yesterday's game so the plan was probably Davis+Cork with JWP replacing whichever looked the most shàgged at 65 minutes.

Corky's silly incident with the turf at SMS blew all that away.

[shurlock]

Some posters are advocating bringing in Boruc, or even that he should have played v Everton

 

Why ??

 

Gazza (IMHO) has done little wrong so far. Does anyone suggest he would have had a better chance with any of Everton's goals ??

 

IF Boruc gets the nod in the next match, he will be confronted with the same problem as Gazza ........ a Defence that (due to playing instructions from Adkins) cannot defend. Even Shilton in his prime, or Joe Hart now, would not fare much better IMHO

 

Organising a defence is one thing, but you have to have players of the calibre to be ABLE to adapt

 

Unfortunately, we don't, and by January we will not be able to attract Quality players to us because I fear we will be rooted at the foot of the table

 

My opinion is, that Nicola's "mission" of getting Ramirez "at all costs" detracted in no small measure in strengthening (at the time) the Goalkeeping, and central defensive positions.

 

We are already suffering the consequences of that, but it will be Adkins who will bite the bullet for our now obvious shortcomings

 

Having now seen the highlights, Gazza was at fault for their 2nd and 3rd goals. Was obsessed with his near post for both. For the second, got his angles wrong and gave Jelovic too much of the goal to aim at; and for the third, he gave himself too much to to do to scramble back and stop the header coz his starting position for the cross was wrong.

[The Kraken]

Yoshida could play as a DM in the absence of Cork/Morgan - indeed he started his career as one. Got a nice touch and reads the game well.

 

Is there not a danger of having almost half a team of square pegs in round holes? We already have Clyne playing LB, JRod playing LM/RM, and Lallana playing all over the midfield line.

[Barry the Badger]

What it's sometimes easy to forget when the team are struggling, is that football is not mainly about tactics or formations, it's mainly about players. Tactics can help a poor side overcome a good side, but 9 times out of 10 it's the quality of the players that makes the difference.

 

Everton, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal all had vastly better players than us. Now sometimes you get lucky, or catch them on a bad day, other times you might surprise them with a bit of tactical wizardry. But those teams beat us not because of Adkins, but because their teams are significantly better than ours man for man, end of story.

[shurlock]

Is there not a danger of having almost half a team of square pegs in round holes? We already have Clyne playing LB, JRod playing LM/RM, and Lallana playing all over the midfield line.

 

It's only temporary. I'd rather steady the ship and give us more of a backbone -and that starts with midfield personnel, not formations. At any rate, Jrod apart- not sure we've really suffered for playing square pegs in round holes, even if it's not ideal.

[The Kraken]

It's only temporary. I'd rather steady the ship and give us more of a backbone -and that starts with midfield personnel, not formations. At any rate, Jrod apart- not sure we've really suffered for playing square pegs in round holes, even if it's not ideal.

 

I'm not sure I fully agree with that; sadly I think our current woes expose the flaws in our transfer activity this summer, whereby we spent a huge amount of money but still came up short of options in numerous places around the pitch. Not getting a LB has led to us playing a reserve RB and a RB playing out of position at LB; very much less than ideal. We spent £10M or so on two forwards, Rodriguez and Mayuka, and both seem to be being played out of position when they do appear, we're certainly not getting the best out of Rodriguez.

 

There's not much we can do about predicting injuries; though some may now question the decision to release Dean Hammond given that we play a 3 man midfield and are now seemingly reliant on the form and ability of a 17 year old. Suddenly, with Cork and Morgan out, we look very short of decent options in the middle of the park; personally I'm not at all convinced that Yoshida is that answer at all, and even if he were it means going with Hooiveld and Fonte at CB which has its obvious flaws.

[shurlock]

I'm not sure I fully agree with that; sadly I think our current woes expose the flaws in our transfer activity this summer, whereby we spent a huge amount of money but still came up short of options in numerous places around the pitch. Not getting a LB has led to us playing a reserve RB and a RB playing out of position at LB; very much less than ideal. We spent £10M or so on two forwards, Rodriguez and Mayuka, and both seem to be being played out of position when they do appear, we're certainly not getting the best out of Rodriguez.

 

There's not much we can do about predicting injuries; though some may now question the decision to release Dean Hammond given that we play a 3 man midfield and are now seemingly reliant on the form and ability of a 17 year old. Suddenly, with Cork and Morgan out, we look very short of decent options in the middle of the park; personally I'm not at all convinced that Yoshida is that answer at all, and even if he were it means going with Hooiveld and Fonte at CB which has its obvious flaws.

 

Don't disagree with you about our transfer activity -it was massively unbalanced. And we should never have been in the position we now find ourselves.

 

That said, I think square-pegs-in-round-holes explains only part of the problem. The bigger problem is quality. Yesterday Clyne was fine at LB even if he is very one-footed. By contrast, Richardson had a poor game in his favoured RB position. Jrod is the clearest example of square-pegs-in-round-holes but, even in this case, perhaps people are underestimating the fact that he's not yet quite ready for the Prem -whether down the middle in his natural position or being forced to drift off the flank. After all, Mayuka who has pedigree looked good when he came on and drifted from the right.

Edited 30 September, 2012 by shurlock

[The Kraken]

Don't disagree with you about our transfer activity -it was massively unbalanced. And we should never have been in the position we find ourselves. That said, I think square-pegs-in-round-holes explains only part of the problem. The bigger problem is quality. Yesterday Clyne was fine at LB even if he is very one-footed. By contrast, Richardson had a poor game in his favoured RB position. Jrod is the clearest example of square-pegs-in-round-holes but, even in this case, perhaps people are underestimating the fact that he's not yet quite ready for the Prem -whether down the middle in his natural position or being forced to drift off the flank.

 

Agree about Rodriguez; after seeing him in pre-season I expressed doubts, after a couple of games I thought it was a bizarre move to spend £6M on him, and now I'm still not sure about what his role is supposed to be in the squad. I think its an extremely strange transfer, and spending that much money on effectively a replacement for Lambert doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me.

[Barry the Badger]

, and spending that much money on effectively a replacement for Lambert doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me.

 

Until Lambert gets injured perhaps?

[Window Cleaner]

Agree about Rodriguez; after seeing him in pre-season I expressed doubts, after a couple of games I thought it was a bizarre move to spend £6M on him, and now I'm still not sure about what his role is supposed to be in the squad. I think its an extremely strange transfer, and spending that much money on effectively a replacement for Lambert doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me.

 

 

Said back in the summer that I didn't understand signing Rodriguez at all cost, still don't. We had Lambert,Sharp and Lee available

for 1 place on the starting line-up, plus some of these young hotshots that are supposed to be hovering just below first team level. Someone got a bee in their bonnet about "young English players" (who incidentally didn't make the olympic side) and we threw money at him until he couldn't refuse thus condemning Billy Sharp to the scrap heap(well at least temporarily) a few months after signing him because we were his best chance of PL football.

[The Kraken]

Until Lambert gets injured perhaps?

 

When I say "replacement" I mean longer term replacement. I simply don't know if JRod would yet be good enough to play up front for us if RL did get injured; I guess the hope is that he will be ready in 6 months, a year, 2 years. So its a longer term approach. My view is that, for a team who has just been promoted and needs to hit the ground running, I'm unsure as to whether prioritising a signing of that nature was the wisest course of action.

[Barry the Badger]

When I say "replacement" I mean longer term replacement. I simply don't know if JRod would yet be good enough to play up front for us if RL did get injured; I guess the hope is that he will be ready in 6 months, a year, 2 years. So its a longer term approach. My view is that, for a team who has just been promoted and needs to hit the ground running, I'm unsure as to whether prioritising a signing of that nature was the wisest course of action.

 

I don't know. This isn't some youngster we've plucked from another clubs youth team, or from the lower divisions. He scored 15 last season and 14 the season before that and is an England U21 international.

 

I don't think there was any element of 'hope that he will be ready in 6 months', I think we signed him believing he is ready now to step in when needed. Whether that was right or wrong only time will tell as we haven't seen enough of him in his best position to properly judge yet in my opinion.

[Wilko]

He got it right tactically for two seasons to take us from the relegation zone of League One to the Premier League.

 

In my opinion, that earns him a lot more mistakes than he has apparently made so far this season.

[The Kraken]

I don't know. This isn't some youngster we've plucked from another clubs youth team, or from the lower divisions. He scored 15 last season and 14 the season before that and is an England U21 international.

 

I don't think there was any element of 'hope that he will be ready in 6 months', I think we signed him believing he is ready now to step in when needed. Whether that was right or wrong only time will tell as we haven't seen enough of him in his best position to properly judge yet in my opinion.

 

I simply think its rather telling that we haven't really seen him up front in his natural position yet; as least not in the league. The Man City game was especially bizarre; dropping Rickie and moving Guly up front on his own in order to accommodate Rodriguez out wide. That, and constantly playing him out wide since, suggests to me that the management don't think he's at all ready to do a job up front yet. Which, being the case, would seem to leave us (still after a couple of years) without a true replacement for Lambert should he be injured.

 

Perhaps I'm wrong, and Rodriguez will shine if he's given the chance up top. Until that happens I'll remain entirely sceptical of his transfer though; at least for where we are as a side right now.