Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 So far it seems that nearly every game has seen tactical mistakes by Adkins. City - Not starting Lambert United - Taking off our best 3 players Wigan - Starting with wrong formation Arsenal - Just the whole game in general! Villa - None Everton - Starting with wrong formation How many tactical mistakes is he allowed? Is he allowed carte blanche to make mistakes due to him getting us promoted 2 seasons running, or at what point do we decide he doesn't have the tactical nous for the Premiership? This season is starting to remind me of Poortvliets due to the fact that we are giving a good account of ourselves early in the season but with no cigar. I hope I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 He's allowed 11 so 5 more to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Can you explain what formation he should have started with yesterday? I keep seeing it trotted out that he got it wrong yesterday, but not one poster who has criticized it has given a valid alternative. Puncheon has had a knock all week, so has Mayuka, Morgan was out. What we started with was the best we could have put out in a tweaked formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Can you explain what formation he should have started with yesterday? I keep seeing it trotted out that he got it wrong yesterday, but not one poster who has criticized it has given a valid alternative. Puncheon has had a knock all week, so has Mayuka, Morgan was out. What we started with was the best we could have put out in a tweaked formation. it so much more than formation......its the defensive line..it the flair players on both wings...BOTH constantly cutting in...we leave many part of the pitch horrifically exposed... did we have to start with rodriguez....? I'm starting to think all the other fans were right...starting to think why is he here..? how many times are we going to watch players run through our midfield at the defence....just every time, unchallenged... at some point, the set up has to be in question rather than saying..."if only we signed another left back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 it so much more than formation......its the defensive line..it the flair players on both wings...BOTH constantly cutting in...we leave many part of the pitch horrifically exposed... did we have to start with rodriguez....? I'm starting to think all the other fans were right...starting to think why is he here..? how many times are we going to watch players run through our midfield at the defence....just every time, unchallenged... at some point, the set up has to be in question rather than saying..."if only we signed another left back" You're right, it's not as easy as saying ''We need a new CB'' - It's the entire team setup, but it's also our lack of quality depth. There's not much we can do about that. Without Cork, and Morgan we all of a sudden look very week in the central area and as good as WP is....I think he struggles as part of a 2, and he gets outmusscled easily which is understandable. Davis if anyone should have got more stuck in yesterday. I think it also shows what Adkins thinks of SDR, pretty much the same as all of us. The most ineffective player in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Exactly what TDD said. When I saw we were going with effectively a front 4 of Lambert, Rodriguez, Ramirez and Lallana I just knew we'd ship goals against a side who haven't had too much trouble scoring and are very much in form. At home, that type of lineup has a chance of working. Away, when we need to keep it much tighter and will naturally be defending more than attacking, its almost suicide to put out those 4 players and expect them to do it defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Exactly what TDD said. When I saw we were going with effectively a front 4 of Lambert, Rodriguez, Ramirez and Lallana I just knew we'd ship goals against a side who haven't had too much trouble scoring and are very much in form. At home, that type of lineup has a chance of working. Away, when we need to keep it much tighter and will naturally be defending more than attacking, its almost suicide to put out those 4 players and expect them to do it defensively. Adkins was obviously asked about being always Gung-ho as he (what seemed) to answer a question on Match of the day and say we are not too Gung-ho and that we will score goals... to rely on our back line with our attacking set up and hope we score at least 2-3 per game is relegation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Chuckle Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Man City and Man Utd to a point he got the tactics spot on. Man Utd it was the subs that cost us. He needs to ditch this 4-3-3 and look at playing 4-5-1 away from home and try to grind out draws. Start with just trying to keep a clean sheet and then anything extra would be a bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Adkins wants to play football. He fundamentally does not want to go to Goodison and park ten men behind the ball. Other teams will try that and lose 3-0. I'm not saying 3-1 is a good result but for the record Everton have won more games in 2012 than any team bar United and Citeh. Everton have a manager with seven years Premiership experience, not six games. Everton have been in the Premiership my whole life not just the past two months. If you expected us to go to Everton and turn them over, I admire your optimism but you need a quick cold ice bath in the reality-ville hotel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge_B Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Games we win - "Adkins got it right" Games we lose - "Adkins got it wrong" It really is that black and white, isn't it? No chance that in the games we lost there were good elements, as well as areas to improve on when we win. ALSO - 51p for the first person to guess the correct massively obvious thread to start should we manage a draw. Clue - it's not as good as "Adkins got it right", but not as bad as "Adkins got it wrong" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 The biggest tactical rror was not addressing the defence in the early part of the transfer window. We got away with it last season, but had to bolster things up in January. I constantly warned about our complaceny and have been proven right...unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 The biggest tactical rror was not addressing the defence in the early part of the transfer window. We got away with it last season, but had to bolster things up in January. I constantly warned about our complaceny and have been proven right...unfortunately. I've just watched yesterday's game on FF and you could lay the blame for all three goals at the door of our midfield... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Adkins wants to play football. He fundamentally does not want to go to Goodison and park ten men behind the ball. Other teams will try that and lose 3-0. I'm not saying 3-1 is a good result but for the record Everton have won more games in 2012 than any team bar United and Citeh. Everton have a manager with seven years Premiership experience, not six games. Everton have been in the Premiership my whole life not just the past two months. If you expected us to go to Everton and turn them over, I admire your optimism but you need a quick cold ice bath in the reality-ville hotel. Who has said they expected us to win? There's a massive difference between expecting to win, and setting up a team that will likely offer much more help defensively than playing 4 attackers and conceding three goals before half time. It is possible to set up the team more defensively and still play football. We just haven't chsoen to do that yet. 18 goals in 6 games is a damning indictment of that fact, even taking into account who our opposition have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Who is Askins? I disagree with some of the tactical assessments though, whoever he is. Against Utd, it was Paul Scholes coming on that changed the game. He won it for them, we didn't lose it because of the subs, as we were backs-to-the-wall by then with Scholes bossing things. Yesterday he got it right too with the starting formation. Even Moyes said in his interview afterwards that our formation caught them by surprise, we scored early on, so I think that shows he got it right. Where it went wrong is Everton adapted and changed their game plan, we didn't then match that and they bossed us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 I've just watched yesterday's game on FF and you could lay the blame for all three goals at the door of our midfield... Ok, so are you saying defence was sorted over the summer and midfield was the problem ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 I've just watched yesterday's game on FF and you could lay the blame for all three goals at the door of our midfield... You can have the 2 best CB's in the world, but if your midfield leaves them as exposed as ours, then they'll still have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Who has said they expected us to win? There's a massive difference between expecting to win, and setting up a team that will likely offer much more help defensively than playing 4 attackers and conceding three goals before half time. It is possible to set up the team more defensively and still play football. We just haven't chsoen to do that yet. 18 goals in 6 games is a damning indictment of that fact, even taking into account who our opposition have been. So there would be no or less criticism had we gone to Everton and lost 1-0 after setting up defensively and maybe not creating much by way of chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Adkins was obviously asked about being always Gung-ho as he (what seemed) to answer a question on Match of the day and say we are not too Gung-ho and that we will score goals... to rely on our back line with our attacking set up and hope we score at least 2-3 per game is relegation... To be fair to him, on the BBC website (which shows all of his interview) he says that we're conceding far too many goals. That said, he followed that up by saying "Are we too adevnturous? I don't think so". In some ways its good to see a manager who sets up his football team to have a go, and not park the bus. But I think we can still do that, while also selecting a slightly more defensive line-up that will protect the back 4 much better. Expecting Lallana, Rodriguez and/or Ramirez to effectively defend the wings and provide adequate defensove cover to the full backs is a little naive IMO, and we're being punished for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge_B Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Ok, so are you saying defence was sorted over the summer and midfield was the problem ? How the hell do you get to that conclusion based on what has been said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 (edited) So far it seems that nearly every game has seen tactical mistakes by Adkins. City - Not starting Lambert.....RL didn't score at all pre-season ? I think I might have started the same team as NA did, but Rickie is still Rickie as we saw when he came on. Defence at fault in the end. United - Taking off our best 3 players - NA won't do that again. TBF they were wilting badly after a great performance, and we had already won the game - but our defence gave it away again. Wigan - Starting with wrong formation - Bad day at the office Adam, he had enough chances to have scored a hat-trick before HT. Our back line was poor and Fonte was fouled before the second goal. Arsenal - Just the whole game in general! I think Arsenal would have beaten Barca on the day. Simply too good for us, and KD had a nightmare (not entirely his fault though)...but on that form they might win the title. Villa - None Agreed a good result, but not a good test for Gazzaniga who did nothing wrong, but had little else to do anyway. Everton (away) were a different proposition - I would have picked Boruc. Everton - Starting with wrong formation ...but it was good enough to control the first 20 mins .and score a goal. Individually, midfielders were OK , but we needed more agression and muscle there. I would have played JP instead of Ward-Prowse. Defence weak again, but the back line chose itself due to injuries and form . Adkins has stated (many times) they change formation during the game - according to circumstances. Last season tactical changes / subs. changed the result, and FGI - 12 players scored as oncoming subs last season. This only works - if you have suitable subs available. At present, we have; Shaw, Puncheon, Cork, Schneiderlin and Tadanari Lee.. injured /sick. Fox, too apparantly, though many have questioned his form of late ...as with KD. I think many of us have stated that NA didn't get sufficient defensive cover in the window, and now we see the result, but TBF you never know how players will react at this level; Steve Davis is a lot better than many thought, and so too Ward-Prowse (for one so young). Who would argue that Rodriguez is better than Lambert (!)...not me.. but playing left wing isn't his best position - however the fact he hasn't scored in the League yet also puts him in the same category as quite a few other Prem. strikers with far more experience, I'm sure...whereas Rickie Lambert (who I recall quite a few contributors said) .....wouldn't be able to make the transition from L1 to the Championship... .has confounded all his critics, and gained praise from the highest levels. There are other several factors in Lallana's life at present; I don't believe that he is a wrong choice for captain, but becoming a new father (congrats Adam btw)..it won't improve his training days when it's been his turn to get up and fetch the infant at 3 AM!.... and for all the stick he's got on this site in recent months Jason Puncheon is performing better than almost anyone predicted. Few would argue that our new signings weren't good ...Yoshida looks solid, Clyne is exciting to watch, but at the moment look a better winger than he a full back - at this level. IMO Steve Davis has been outstanding in the last couple of games - despite final scores. Mayuka hasn't had one full game yet, so it's unfair to make judgements. Gazzaniga is playing first team football far quicker than he (and many of us expected - and though I rate him ATM ---better than Bart he's not Prem. quality YET !. Boruc should have been signed in August. but I don't believe he would have started ahead of KD.. .at least not until the Arsenal game, but i would have definitely played him yesterday. Finally, I don't think we're up to " zonal marking " . Clever opposition players can see the weaknesses in different defenders and exploit them..and they have. I don't totally agree with your list (ABOVE) and has entered my own thoughts. Edited 30 September, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 So there would be no or less criticism had we gone to Everton and lost 1-0 after setting up defensively and maybe not creating much by way of chances? Who knows? I can't speak for anyone else. But I would certainly point to the fact that a 1-0 defeat is better than a 3-1 defeat, and would show signs that we're improving defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 I've just watched yesterday's game on FF and you could lay the blame for all three goals at the door of our midfield... Agree with that. Attack as a team, defend as a team. We dont defend as a team and the simple reason is players in the Prem are faster and stronger than our midfield have been used to and they get over run, exposing the defence. The defence is, as we all know, a bit shaky so put the two things together and its no wonder we are shipping goals. I dont get this theory about why Morgan being out injured doesn't help. Ok he is a very good player but he aint much defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing now Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 So far it seems that nearly every game has seen tactical mistakes by Adkins. City - Not starting Lambert United - Taking off our best 3 players Wigan - Starting with wrong formation Arsenal - Just the whole game in general! Villa - None Everton - Starting with wrong formation How many tactical mistakes is he allowed? Is he allowed carte blanche to make mistakes due to him getting us promoted 2 seasons running, or at what point do we decide he doesn't have the tactical nous for the Premiership? This season is starting to remind me of Poortvliets due to the fact that we are giving a good account of ourselves early in the season but with no cigar. I hope I am wrong. So in your view the only game with no tactical mistakes was Villa where we 0-1 down at half time and Bent & Benteke both had chances to make it 0-2 early in the second half? It is more than just tactics that win & lose games. To go 1-0 up at Everton was a pretty good start, especially 'with the wrong formation'. So did we lose the game because of the wrong tactics; the players not carrying out the planned tactics, or perhaps Everton, having had a great start to the season, just played really well at home. You hope you are wrong. Good news; you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Jay Rod misses a chance to go 2-0 up and the game changes... Adkins is a man who wants to outscore the opposition by playing posession football. It works. We play the way many teams in the Premiership are now trying to evolve to. Last year, mistakes wouldn't be punished because our quality of football was so much better than the opposition. This year, we're playing guys worth £10-£50 million every day. It won't work as well for us while we don't have proven Premiership players. So we've adopted a strategy of buying young players and making it work over time. It might well deliver results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 It's really simple, we are getting killed down the flanks & yesterday left massive gaps in front of the back 4 because we missed Morgan. Many many teams will lose at Arsenal, City & Everton. What did people expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the colonel Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 So far it seems that nearly every game has seen tactical mistakes by Adkins. City - Not starting Lambert United - Taking off our best 3 players Wigan - Starting with wrong formation Arsenal - Just the whole game in general! Villa - None Everton - Starting with wrong formation How many tactical mistakes is he allowed? Is he allowed carte blanche to make mistakes due to him getting us promoted 2 seasons running, or at what point do we decide he doesn't have the tactical nous for the Premiership? This season is starting to remind me of Poortvliets due to the fact that we are giving a good account of ourselves early in the season but with no cigar. I hope I am wrong. Skate on the prowl i does think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stthrobber Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 So far it seems that nearly every game has seen tactical mistakes by Adkins. City - Not starting Lambert United - Taking off our best 3 players Wigan - Starting with wrong formation Arsenal - Just the whole game in general! Villa - None Everton - Starting with wrong formation How many tactical mistakes is he allowed? Is he allowed carte blanche to make mistakes due to him getting us promoted 2 seasons running, or at what point do we decide he doesn't have the tactical nous for the Premiership? This season is starting to remind me of Poortvliets due to the fact that we are giving a good account of ourselves early in the season but with no cigar. I hope I am wrong. It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and say Adkins got it wrong innit? We are going to lose many more games than we have done in the last 2 seasons because we lack experience at this level. We have to adjust and learn from each game as we go and make SMS a fortress to win our home games to stand a chance of surviving the season and staying up. I didn't expect any points from yesterday, I didn't expect any points in any of the first month's games except Wigan. Every manager makes tactical mistakes, many fans think they know better, the fact is they don't. He has to pick the best team and formation available to him as he sees it. Some of us will agree and others will disagree, but it's his arse on the line, not ours and by and large, Adkins is and has done a fantastic job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Villa = none. This is the funniest part of your post as it shows you up as totally clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibizasaint Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Who realistically expected us to get anything from an away trip to Everton? They are stronger than they have been for years and are in a rich vein of form. They were at home and we are still finding our feet after a long absence from the prem. Most ppl say they will be happy if we finish 17th.. if we do it its going to mean a few more results like this at very difficult places to go like Goodison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Go back to pre-season when it seemed the new system would involve a much more defensive approach which I assumed we'd be using away from home. The first league match against City it looked like those were the tactics being used and we were able to break from defence and cause the problems. There was a recognition in starting Lambert on the bench that there was little point in wearing him out as an isolated striker. Bringing him off the bench worked because he was fresh and he scored. Wigan was a flat performance with defensive errors that cost us though we did hit the woodwork twice. Manu - Good performance and the tactics were right. Adkins substitutions didn't come off but I would argue that Ferguson's subs and the inability to shackle Scholes were bigger factors in losing. Arsenal - game over before we got into our stride. Disaster all round. Aston Villa - No issues with tactics and good performance. Everton - only saw on a dodgy internet feed the period covering their goals (before I gave up and went down the shed!) but that together with the line up that started suggests we have moved away from trying to play more defensive and compact away from home. Recognition maybe that we don't have the players to play it. One final comment. Why don't we press the opposition more. The bit I saw yesterday we stood off and made Everton look better than they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 This is the funniest part of your post as it shows you up as totally clueless. Exactly my thoughts. I actually think that tactically NA is streets ahead of most NPC managers and is learning fast at this level. But the whole club is going through this learning process now (supporters included). I don't thinking starting Rickie on the bench against City, given his pre season form and the nature of the opposition, was wrong at all. Neither was replacing your three tired players against man u. Above all I would rather see the team to adapt to different oppositions and play attractive football than watch, say, west ham who just want to stay up irrespective of the standard of football they do it with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and say Adkins got it wrong innit? We are going to lose many more games than we have done in the last 2 seasons because we lack experience at this level. We have to adjust and learn from each game as we go and make SMS a fortress to win our home games to stand a chance of surviving the season and staying up. I didn't expect any points from yesterday, I didn't expect any points in any of the first month's games except Wigan. Every manager makes tactical mistakes, many fans think they know better, the fact is they don't. He has to pick the best team and formation available to him as he sees it. Some of us will agree and others will disagree, but it's his arse on the line, not ours and by and large, Adkins is and has done a fantastic job. I didn't realise Punch ws injured. Shame has he has played well this season. We did have the option of putting Yoshida in Morgan's defensive midfielder role, to protect what would have been Jos and Fonte. Rodriguez is an out and out centre-forward. There is absolutely no point playing him anywhere else, which is perfectly obvious based on performances this season. That was a mistake, and a case of square pegs and round holes. If you want to play a certain formation, but injuries dictate you can't, then change the formation. This is where I take issue with him. Chaplow would have been a better option than young Ward-Prowse, to what was obviously going to be a hard physical battle away from home. Please don't read this as a sack the manager post, it's not. Just my opinion as I see it. And as you say, it is easy to sit behind a keyboard and say these things. Especially with the luxury of hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Go back to pre-season when it seemed the new system would involve a much more defensive approach which I assumed we'd be using away from home. The first league match against City it looked like those were the tactics being used and we were able to break from defence and cause the problems. There was a recognition in starting Lambert on the bench that there was little point in wearing him out as an isolated striker. Bringing him off the bench worked because he was fresh and he scored. Wigan was a flat performance with defensive errors that cost us though we did hit the woodwork twice. Manu - Good performance and the tactics were right. Adkins substitutions didn't come off but I would argue that Ferguson's subs and the inability to shackle Scholes were bigger factors in losing. Arsenal - game over before we got into our stride. Disaster all round. Aston Villa - No issues with tactics and good performance. Everton - only saw on a dodgy internet feed the period covering their goals (before I gave up and went down the shed!) but that together with the line up that started suggests we have moved away from trying to play more defensive and compact away from home. Recognition maybe that we don't have the players to play it. One final comment. Why don't we press the opposition more. The bit I saw yesterday we stood off and made Everton look better than they are. I wouldn't say there were no tactical issues against Villa. We were too exposed down the left flank in the first half so he swapped Fox for Clyne, brought on Richardson and made us a better side. Clyne and Puncheon were irresitible, and Richardson and Lallana worked well too. And they swapped as well with Lallana and Puncheon running at defenders on both sides. It's obvious that the best way to defend the flanks is to have players like Lallana and Puncheon occuyping the opposition! From what I saw (only FF this morning), we missed someone 'sweeping up' in front of the back four and our midfield lacked bite as a result. But there will be better teams than us get stuffed by Osman and Baines running at the defence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 (edited) I dont get this theory about why Morgan being out injured doesn't help. Ok he is a very good player but he aint much defensively. Our player who puts in the most tackles (including successful ones) and the most interceptions in virtually every match. Against Villa think he put in about 10 winning tackles, won a shedload of balls and pulled off about 15 interceptions. For comparison Fonte and Yoshida probably didn't win as many tackles between them and Davis won about 1. Morgan looks lazy but statistics blow that theory to bits, he puts himself about a lot and is often where he needs to be when he needs to be to cut out a pass and get us moving forward thus taking off pressure from the defence. Morgan is also deceptively fast,think I read somewhere that he put in a burst of over 20 mph against Man U and that translates into about a 10.5 sec 100 metres whiich again is f*cking fast. Most adults would struggle at 14/15 seconds. Edited 30 September, 2012 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Our player who puts in the most tackles (including successful ones) and the most interceptions in virtually every match. Against Villa think he put in about 10 winning tackles, won a shedload of balls and pulled off about 15 interceptions. For comparison Fonte and Yoshida probably didn't win as many tackles between them and Davis won about 1. Morgan looks lazy but statistics blow that theory to bits, he puts himself about a lot and is often where he needs to be when he needs to be to cut out a pass and get us moving forward thus taking off pressure from the defence. Hasn't he traveled something like 8 miles in games? More than any other? What he gives you is pressuring of the opposition, you watch him...he never gives them a rest, always tugging at them...and when he does get the ball 90% of the time he retains it and picks up good area's to do so. We don't have another player like him in our squad. I'm still stunned to see how people fail to see what he brings to us in terms of team-shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Hasn't he traveled something like 8 miles in games? More than any other? What he gives you is pressuring of the opposition, you watch him...he never gives them a rest, always tugging at them...and when he does get the ball 90% of the time he retains it and picks up good area's to do so. We don't have another player like him in our squad. I'm still stunned to see how people fail to see what he brings to us in terms of team-shape. He has, yep. He's shown as our most accurate passer and hardest runner by a mile. I'm a bit surprised it's not the job that Davis can do when Morgan is out, but even over the past three years, when the analysis is done, we win more games with Morgan playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 30 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 September, 2012 (edited) This is the funniest part of your post as it shows you up as totally clueless. No, the point was that the tactics didn't cost us the game, m'kay. So there were no tactical errors that cost us the game. Peeps, please read the post. The point I am making is not tgat he doesn't get the tactics right eventually, it's that a lot of his tactics are costing us games. Edited 30 September, 2012 by Dibden Purlieu Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 We have some right tools on here. In the end of the day, Morgan is massively important to how we play. His loss was a massive factor. Gazza's potential showed with a couple of finger tip worldies but his inexperience also showed with their second and third goals. So when Boruc is fit, you'ld expect those goals to be saved. Add to this the lambert header, Jrod one on one and Ramirez flick over keeper, we could easily have had another 3 goals... So swings and roundabouts, it didn't fall for us this game! We are a young, inexperienced team in transition, but CRUCIALLY we are showing enough to suggest we will score goals, and even though we're conceding them, you can see the light and its obvious the corrections, that need making. Adkins is too good a manager not to see where needs work, if we can I'm sure he can! The thing that gives me most confidence is, the way we are playing, we do not fit the billing for a hopeless team which will get relegated. Need a good solid ten games to settle. There is massive hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 No, the point was that the tactics didn't cost us the game, m'kay. So there were no tactical errors that cost us the game. Peeps, please read the post. The point I am making is not tgat he doesn't get the tactics right eventually, it's that a lot of his tactics are costing us games. I'm still waiting for an alternative setup for yesterday, that you'd have gone with. All well and good criticizing, but if you can't think of an alternative, then what are you actually criticizing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 What a bunch of spoilt brats our fans are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 I didn't realise Punch ws injured. Shame has he has played well this season. We did have the option of putting Yoshida in Morgan's defensive midfielder role, to protect what would have been Jos and Fonte. Rodriguez is an out and out centre-forward. There is absolutely no point playing him anywhere else, which is perfectly obvious based on performances this season. That was a mistake, and a case of square pegs and round holes. If you want to play a certain formation, but injuries dictate you can't, then change the formation. This is where I take issue with him. Chaplow would have been a better option than young Ward-Prowse, to what was obviously going to be a hard physical battle away from home. Please don't read this as a sack the manager post, it's not. Just my opinion as I see it. And as you say, it is easy to sit behind a keyboard and say these things. Especially with the luxury of hindsight. Totally agree on your points regarding Rodriguez and Chaplow. Listening to part of yesterday's match, the post mortem after, and on here, it seems we started with a fairly narrow midfield and "diamond". I thought this particular formation had been proven a disaster last season away from home, why are we persisting with it ? It seems a commonly stated tactic regarding Everton attacking wide down the left in particular, but we did not line up to counter that known threat until it was too late. Ramirez and Lallana are fantastic talents, but we need some bin men as well as violinists (to use Lawrie's description), a few grafters in the middle were needed yesterday, and Chaplow might have been the answer.The second goal in particular embarrased our midfield as they took possession all too easily (could not work out who on MOTD) and carved a way through, virtually unchallenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 The principal is admirable, but principles don't win matches. It's naive to think that you can go to places like the Emirates and Goodison Park and attack teams, winning by playing great, attacking football. You need to set up to be tight, difficult to break down and beat and then take your chances when they cone along. There is no shame in doing this, it's how Chelsea won the champion league, it's how Moruniho set up Inter to beat Barcelona, it's how Ferguson set up Man U to beat Arsenal in the early 00s with their 'invincibles' we are far too easy to beat at the moment and far too easy too cut through. It's incredibly naive to think you can go to top premier league clubs, teams and players much better than we are and pass your way through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Away from home, against the better sides, I'm simply not sure to the wisdom of putting both Lallana and Ramirez in the team. Attacking-wise, of course, they're very good and give some great options going forwards; but having both of them in the side leaves the defence vulnerable, so many of Everton's threats came from surges from midfield that we just didn't respond to. And IMO our defensive naievety is also increased by having Rodriguez and Lambert on the pitch. At home there's a case to be made that they can play together, or certainly a formation akin to that. Away from home, not so much. I don't believe the formation in itself is the problem; its the players occupying those positions. I'd have preferred someone like Chaplow at RM yesterday (ideally a fit Jack Cork or JWP there with Morgan in the middle, but injuries prevented that). We're simply not going to drop Lallana on the left, so its a moot point, but were in not I'd also look to shore up the left side (if Ramirez is going to play through the middle); and if we do sign a decent LB then LM is a job that Fox could potentially do if/when fit (only in tight away games though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Can you explain what formation he should have started with yesterday? I keep seeing it trotted out that he got it wrong yesterday, but not one poster who has criticized it has given a valid alternative. Puncheon has had a knock all week, so has Mayuka, Morgan was out. What we started with was the best we could have put out in a tweaked formation. We had known weaknesses in our defence which we knew would cost us goal if not addressed. In addition we also knew that the main threat from Everton would come through Fellaini and Baines, we did nothing about that either, The only way the defence looks solid is to put the midfield directly in front to give the defensive requirement but then we tend to lack creatively up front. Most teams across the world set up with a counter attack formation because it shows the best chance of getting something from the game. Our trouble is we normally need a 5 man midfield to get some control leaving a lone striker to fight for the scraps. If that striker does not have pace he is easy pickings. 451 is the way for us to go away from home. If 451 does not work out perfectly, I at least hope we can keep it down to 1 goal such when we change things around in the second half we have some sort of chance. What we did yesterday was totally stupid in playing so open against Everton. That's just saying we can out score you in a straight fight, ignoring Evertons pedigree, their league position and their players, totally dumb. I believe Adkins deliberately went for this one, spurred by our attacking play against Villa and Evertons difficulties against Leeds. Referencing the Leeds game as a method of getting a result but omitting they had 6 first team players out. There are no guarantees any method will give us the points but common sense throughout the rest of the world readily tells you are ****ing in the wind if you think you can square up against the opposition on their own patch and come away with a result. Even the big boys will have more caution than that, let alone a team ranked for relegation. Our defence will still struggle against Fulham unless the midfield backs up, going to be interesting to see what we do there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Ramirez & Lallana can play in the same team. but you need 3 defensive midfielders in the middle (Assumin Cork & Morgan are out). Against Fulham I would have JWP, Davies & Chaplow playing. We left massive gaps on the flanks & Having RL, AL, GR & JR playing there simply was not enough cover. I was even thinking about getting Hammond back??? Away from home, against the better sides, I'm simply not sure to the wisdom of putting both Lallana and Ramirez in the team. Attacking-wise, of course, they're very good and give some great options going forwards; but having both of them in the side leaves the defence vulnerable, so many of Everton's threats came from surges from midfield that we just didn't respond to. And IMO our defensive naievety is also increased by having Rodriguez and Lambert on the pitch. At home there's a case to be made that they can play together, or certainly a formation akin to that. Away from home, not so much. I don't believe the formation in itself is the problem; its the players occupying those positions. I'd have preferred someone like Chaplow at RM yesterday (ideally a fit Jack Cork or JWP there with Morgan in the middle, but injuries prevented that). We're simply not going to drop Lallana on the left, so its a moot point, but were in not I'd also look to shore up the left side (if Ramirez is going to play through the middle); and if we do sign a decent LB then LM is a job that Fox could potentially do if/when fit (only in tight away games though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 30 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 September, 2012 I'm still waiting for an alternative setup for yesterday, that you'd have gone with. All well and good criticizing, but if you can't think of an alternative, then what are you actually criticizing? To be fair I'm not a football manager, but here goes: Gazza Richardson Fonte Yoshida Clyne Davis Ward Prowse Ramirez Guly Lallana Lambert Standard 4-5-1 to 4-3-3 (obviously defence and attacking formations) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW5 SAINT Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 Anyway his name is Adkins not Askins. Just so you all know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and say Adkins got it wrong innit? Judging by the thread title, it seems that even that isn't so easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 I didn't realise Punch ws injured. Shame has he has played well this season. We did have the option of putting Yoshida in Morgan's defensive midfielder role, to protect what would have been Jos and Fonte. Rodriguez is an out and out centre-forward. There is absolutely no point playing him anywhere else, which is perfectly obvious based on performances this season. That was a mistake, and a case of square pegs and round holes. If you want to play a certain formation, but injuries dictate you can't, then change the formation. This is where I take issue with him. Chaplow would have been a better option than young Ward-Prowse, to what was obviously going to be a hard physical battle away from home. Please don't read this as a sack the manager post, it's not. Just my opinion as I see it. And as you say, it is easy to sit behind a keyboard and say these things. Especially with the luxury of hindsight. Christ, you know your squad is lacking depth when Chaplow is the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing now Posted 30 September, 2012 Share Posted 30 September, 2012 To be fair I'm not a football manager, but here goes: Gazza Richardson Fonte Yoshida Clyne Davis Ward Prowse Ramirez Guly Lallana Lambert Standard 4-5-1 to 4-3-3 (obviously defence and attacking formations) :lol: No, seriously, what would you suggest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts