Everton 3 - 1 Saints - Post Match Reaction

[St Chalet]

Anyone convinced we are going down can of course take advantage of the Paddy Power high interest account paying an annualised 156% at present with guaranteed pay out in May.

 

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/relegation

[Micky]

Typical knee-jerk reaction early on in a season, based on us playing four of the top teams in the country and conceding goals to them. Before reaching any concrete conclusion, don't you think that we ought to see how other teams fare against these top teams and how we do against the lesser lights? Or don't you think that these top clubs will be capable of putting a similar number of goals past our immediate rivals in the division? Or perhaps it must be a given that those immediate rivals have better defences and goalkeepers than us.

 

In any event, we will have to wait and see, won't we?

 

Eeerrrr yeah, you're right. Sorry for my knee jerk analysis.

[Legod Third Coming]

35 million always sems like bit of an overestimate to me. 25 million is probably nearer the mark,still a lot of money though.

 

Ramirez - £12m?

JayRod - £7m

Clyne - £2m?

Gazza - £1m

Yoshida - £2m

Mayuka - £3.5m

Davis -800k

 

Probably between £25m and £30m I suppose. Still massive spending.

[Window Cleaner]

Anyone convinced we are going down can of course take advantage of the Paddy Power high interest account paying an annualised 156% at present with guaranteed pay out in May.

 

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/relegation

 

 

So if the club were to place a wager of say 40 million with whatever turf account gives the most favourable odds on relegation we'd be quids in, either we stay up and get the cash or we go down and get the cash. Sort of insurance policy.

[Legod Third Coming]

Anyone convinced we are going down can of course take advantage of the Paddy Power high interest account paying an annualised 156% at present with guaranteed pay out in May.

 

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/relegation

 

We won't go down. The Chairman has put it all on red and he is not in the habit of allowing it to come up black...

[Legod Third Coming]

So if the club were to place a wager of say 40 million with whatever turf account gives the most favourable odds on relegation we'd be quids in, either we stay up and get the cash or we go down and get the cash. Sort of insurance policy.

 

Ah yes, those bookmakers who allow football clubs to place bets of £40m to lose... Remind me, what's their freephone number

[Window Cleaner]

Ah yes, those bookmakers who allow football clubs to place bets of £40m to lose... Remind me, what's their freephone number

 

 

Well we might have to spread it about a bit (or lay it off in bookie speak). Apparently there's a big enquiry into players (or their relatives) of Montpellier Handball Club betting on them to lose a match after they'd already won their Championship.

[ART]

Afraid this might happen, he is key for us this season and has been immense so far. Any hint of what the problem is?

I guess we will have to hope Steve Davis can step up, apart from against Villa have been somewhat underwhelmed by him so far, but sure he can do better (he was finally beginning to show what he could do until he was subbed last week).

Spoke to a Rangers friend this week and he told me S.Davis disappears for long periods in games or for a number of games on the trot. When he's up for it he plays really well but it's when he plays bad he leaves one really disappointed he's so inconsistant,

[pap]

Bit sh!te today. Was at the game, so obviously cannot comment until the big boys of the media have their say, but it honestly looked like we lacked any sort of "score strategy". Until we work that out, think we're going to struggle.

[captainchris]

I am bored with us playing players iether out of position who have proved time and again that it isn't working and playing players (Fox) game after game who are not up to it.....Ok he didn't play today but my point is NA seems intent on repeating the mistakes indefinately.....Also when things go well, as in last week we change things quite radically the next game. I know we had injuries but is there any need to compound this burden by making lots of other changes to tactics and not like for like replacements to personnel....There is an element of repeated poor decision making developing which is slightly concerning to me.....and then repeated several times before the lesson is learnt...

[S-Clarke]

I am bored with us playing players iether out of position who have proved time and again that it isn't working and playing players (Fox) game after game who are not up to it.....Ok he didn't play today but my point is NA seems intent on repeating the mistakes indefinately.....Also when things go well, as in last week we change things quite radically the next game. I know we had injuries but is there any need to compound this burden by making lots of other changes to tactics and not like for like replacements to personnel....There is an element of repeated poor decision making developing which is slightly concerning to me.....and then repeated several times before the lesson is learnt...

 

I keep reading stuff like this, but I'm yet to see a valid answer from anywhere as to what mistakes he's made today.

 

What on earth could he have done differently? Bearing in mind Puncheon, Mayuka were both nursing knocks. Morgan was out of the game. That doesn't give us a great deal of scope in terms of the wide positions, so you have to tweak it - which is what we did - and played slightly more central and relied on the full backs. It was always a long shot, but there wasn't much choice - we don't have the depth to go to a place like this if we get a batch of injuries.

 

You keep saying he's made mistakes by changing it bla bla, and then justifying it by saying ''Ok, i know we had injuries'' - so what exactly are you try to get at?

[VectisSaint]

Spoke to a Rangers friend this week and he told me S.Davis disappears for long periods in games or for a number of games on the trot. When he's up for it he plays really well but it's when he plays bad he leaves one really disappointed he's so inconsistant,

Seems consistent with what I've seen so far of him (consistently inconsistent). When he's good he is very very good, when he is not he might as well not be on the pitch. I did think last week that he looked good because JWP is perhaps too similar. Hopefully with a fit Spiderman and Davis together they will look good more often than not. I have very high hopes of Davis, hope he doesn't disappoint. From what I saw on NA interview Spiderman may not be out for too long, touch and go for next game probably means not ready though, would be foolish to play him if not completely ready.

[St Chalet]

Ah yes, those bookmakers who allow football clubs to place bets of £40m to lose... Remind me, what's their freephone number

 

Please don't tell the PST, betting the farm on the Scummaaaarrrsss going down was part of their business plan.

[70's Mike]

see the bed wetters are out, they must be young because anyone who watched the club in the top flight from 67 to 2005 knows that it is a battle and beating the top sides is hard, we concede goals but the reason we stayed up in the past , even before Le Tiss, was we scored goals.

people need to get used to the fact we are going to lose more than we win this season, but stay behind the 11 in red with a thin white stripe and make sure we win enough at home

[Thedelldays]

looking at the fixtures....november is HUGE

[eesti matty]

I remember November was also a huge month when we were last in the Premier League. We lost to Norwich, drew with West Brom and Crystal Palace and beat Pompey.

[ART]

The lad said himself in the week he wanted to play upfront and I'm guessing that when he signed he wasn't told he would play out of position.....apart from the money I expect he is wondering why he signed.

For me we lost it playing too many inexperienced players in a unfamiliar setup (shades of the Dutch experiment?)....Adkins should have stuck with a combination of what he finished with in the game against villa,why change a winning,working formation and team?

Too many tweaks and it cost us,the villa game was just papering over the cracks for me....ok,it was against a sort of in form Everton side but even so we could have and should have done better, a draw was not out of the realms of possibility but we blew the chance on experiment,inexperience and bad tactics.

 

Good post. I think Nigel is only trying to get Rodriquez to play the type of game Ricky has played so well, able to play out on the wings, to take the heat off being held too tightly in the middle. Ricky has it down to a fine art and switches constantly with ease during a game. I was furious at seeing the opening line up but it seemed to work till Everton switched on full power. Even in the second half we only seemed to play better once they took their foot off the peddle. Puncheon could and should have come on in the 2nd half. We could have got a draw. Nigel has to build on good line ups, not do what he did in the past. Once he knows what he's doing then he can tinker. Had the feeling today Nigel was still on the training ground and didn't up his own game. Too laid back.

 

6/10 and not wonder he looks nervous and Cortese seemed far from happy,

[Legod Third Coming]

Well we might have to spread it about a bit (or lay it off in bookie speak). Apparently there's a big enquiry into players (or their relatives) of Montpellier Handball Club betting on them to lose a match after they'd already won their Championship.

 

£40m - we'd have to spread it fairly wide!!! My bookie can 'just' get £100k on a football match...

[ART]

Well we might have to spread it about a bit (or lay it off in bookie speak). Apparently there's a big enquiry into players (or their relatives) of Montpellier Handball Club betting on them to lose a match after they'd already won their Championship.

 

Older members will remember my run of comedy posts on Lowe and Cowen boosting our transfer funs by doing exactly what the Handballers of Montpellier are reputed to have done. Don't tell me this is unique, it's a nasty and well used basis for regulating financial difficulties, "Harry handling" Asia's betting is run by agents working with the top clubs back in Europe.

[Legod Third Coming]

Older members will remember my run of comedy posts on Lowe and Cowen boosting our transfer funs by doing exactly what the Handballers of Montpellier are reputed to have done. Don't tell me this is unique, it's a nasty and well used basis for regulating financial difficulties, "Harry handling" Asia's betting is run by agents working with the top clubs back in Europe.

 

Asian bookies are about the only place you can have these bets these days. I couldn't get £50 on Hodgson to be the next England manager!

[scotty]

I have to admit I wasnt expecting points from this game, as I mentioned on the build up thread. Whats so gutting is that we went in front and then got so comprehensively outplayed. Everton are a decent side, dont get me wrong, but to quote john cleese, "its not the despair...I can cope with the despair. Its the hope."

[CLOTH EARS]

Alps, i don't wanna jump on the Alpine bashing bandwagon but do you believe Rodriguez is useless as the original poster stated? We have hardly seen anything of him so how the hell can we judge him to be useless? He will prove his worth in my opinion. Give the guy a chance.

[SNSUN]

Not disheartened with the loss, Everton are on fire at the moment I think we'll beat Fulham.

 

Sounds like Gazza had a good game today, a better test of his talents.

[doubleonothing]

Phil Nevile has tweeted

 

@fizzer18: Good day today my boy scored 4 and we won this afternoon in a hard fought game were we had to dig in 2nd half vs a good Southampton side!

[doddisalegend]

Wasn't expecting much (not that that makes losing any more enjoyable)............... really not enjoying losing so often:cry:

 

Now I only have the raido to go on (so someone who was there can no doubt correct me) but against a team where, in the match build up thread, so many people highlighted Everton's power down the wings why the hell did we choose such a narrow formation that allowed Everton to exploit their strengths? Was it just becuase of the injuries to some of players or did the management get the tactics wrong today?

[Lighthouse]

Taking Wigan out of the equation because we've never played them before and Man City because there were a bottom half team last time:

 

Man Utd (h) - Arsenal (a) - Villa (h) - Everton (a)

 

2012 - LLWL - 3 points

04/05 - LDLL - 1 point

03/04 - WLDD - 5 points

02/03 - LLDL - 1 point

01/02 - LDLL - 1 point

 

In anticipation of people saying, "yes but it's the performance today was terrible and it was too easy for Everton". We hardly played Villa off the park in 2001 when they came to St Mary's and won 3-1. Teams don't go to Man Utd and Arsenal and play badly, they make you LOOK bad because they play such good football. It's no coincidence that teams go to OT and the Emirates and look very poor every week. It's not luck, Everton aren't at the top of the table because they're been playing a team having a bad day every week.

 

A lot of people predicted bottom half finishes yet seem to think this will involve playing excellent football and being water tight at the back every week. It's not going to be like that. We are going to lose a lot and we are going to look bad doing it.

[lordswoodsaints]

Just as Dalek is typically ridiculous' date=' suggest yours is also an over reaction 'disaster' it is not - if anything the prem is probably come a year too early in he squad development, but the test of Adkins is how quickly he and we learn - we are 6 games in - 32 to go - we will get better, will it be enough? Who knows, but what is it with fans that want everything instantly? we criticise young players for leaving for instant rewards or success, yet some fans expect the same. We all knew it would be a long hard season, and if these players and manager want to saty up then they need to graft and learn - they do that we survive, they dont we go down, but get all drama queen about relegation is a bit OTT. Surely teh last few seaosns have shown us that we can enjoy football whatever league we are in?[/quote']

 

Nonsense,if we weren't prepared for promotion then somebody didn't do their job properly,we were top of the league for most of the season and hardly ever out of an automatic promotion slot yet you are suggesting we weren't prepared for promotion?....how much preperation do you need?

I'm not expecting instant success,ive supported saints far too long (40+ years) to expect any great deal of success but I do expect some tangible tactics,a plan b and consistent team selections.

We are playing kids against seasoned pros but because its Adkins everything is ok,go back a few years when Lowe ordered the Dutch boys to do it and everybody was up in arms.....it's like Adkins doesn't know his best team or how to fit everybody in and he's experimenting,this is all stuff that should have been done in pre season not away to a strong Everton team 6 games in to the season.

I can stomach losing if we have given ourselves a chance but we never did,I expected something from this game and it wasn't unreasonable to grab a point IMO but hey ho bring on the Fulham game and let's see where we really stand.

[saint lard]

So then what did NA say in his post match interview ?

The same inane drivel.

you could just tape him and replay it after every defeat.

 

which unfortunately we are going to Hear a lot it seems.

his repetitiveness is becoming nauseating.

nice to see others now questioning his ability at this level.

[Sarnia Saint]

The same inane drivel.

you could just tape him and replay it after every defeat.

 

which unfortunately we are going to Hear a lot it seems.

his repetitiveness is becoming nauseating.

nice to see others now questioning his ability at this level.

 

 

I would say the same of your comments with regard to Adkins equally repetitive, nauseating and I would certainly question your level of ability in assessing managers. Who would you prefer to be in charge (other than yourself of course)

[ART]

I'm sorry but some on here had us believing the likes of Stuart Grey, Steve Wigley just to name two could lead us to the Promised Land. Both fine servants of the club but just incapable of making it where the Premier Level was concerned. Expressing concern isn't disloyal, treacherous or whatever, just people are allowed to post their concerns in an adult manner.

[Dalek2003]

I'm sorry but some on here had us believing the likes of Stuart Grey, Steve Wigley just to name two could lead us to the Promised Land. Both fine servants of the club but just incapable of making it where the Premier Level was concerned. Expressing concern isn't disloyal, treacherous or whatever, just people are allowed to post their concerns in an adult manner.

 

You think people would put their petty prejudices before the good of the club ? Did you learn nothing from the Spring of 2004 ?

[harvey]

Nonsense,if we weren't prepared for promotion then somebody didn't do their job properly,we were top of the league for most of the season and hardly ever out of an automatic promotion slot yet you are suggesting we weren't prepared for promotion?....how much preperation do you need?

I'm not expecting instant success,ive supported saints far too long (40+ years) to expect any great deal of success but I do expect some tangible tactics,a plan b and consistent team selections.

We are playing kids against seasoned pros but because its Adkins everything is ok,go back a few years when Lowe ordered the Dutch boys to do it and everybody was up in arms.....it's like Adkins doesn't know his best team or how to fit everybody in and he's experimenting,this is all stuff that should have been done in pre season not away to a strong Everton team 6 games in to the season.

I can stomach losing if we have given ourselves a chance but we never did,I expected something from this game and it wasn't unreasonable to grab a point IMO but hey ho bring on the Fulham game and let's see where we really stand.

 

Tbf.......that is pretty much spot on.

[Lighthouse]

First goal - Davis should have been following Osman in for the rebound, Lallana left Clyne exposed 2 on 1 in the build up.

Second goal - Didn't pick up the run of Mirallas at all but that was a fantastic finish from Jelavic.

Third goal - Frazer in no mans land at the far post, Lallana sold himself completely.

[shurlock]

Haven't watched the highlights but thought Gazza got his angles wrong for the second.

[Chez]

lots of defensive mistakes yet again, but we give possession away cheaply further forward time after time and that's what leads to pressure and counter attacks that result in these mistakes. We have got to keep the ball better and for longer.

 

I never liked the diamond, it left our fullbacks woefully exposed to the 2 on 1 attacks down the wing. The 4-2-3-1 does exactly the same. The problem is what can Adkins do? He could go to a 4-4-2, but we're conceding goals right down our centre so that perhaps won't help things.

 

I know Gazza made some smart saves and but I thought he got his angles all wrong for the second and was too tight to his post for the third and got across his goal too slowly. I only mention this because Davis got a lot of stick for letting near post goals. Gazza has gone the other way.

 

I always thought it was going to be tough. I struggled to see 3 sides worse than us at the start of the season, so I'm not too downhearted. But so long as we keep creating chances we'll win a few games that will keep us in the hunt.

[Chez]

an

Haven't watched the highlights but thought Gazza got his angles wrong for the second.

 

I just posted exactly the same thing and having just watched the highlights he certainly does. Not the only one at fault though. We give the ball away, thy waltz through our middle and then Richardson has to go with Jelavic.

[Barry the Badger]

I'm beginning to get the impression that JRod is a Championship striker.

 

After what? A couple of prem games stuck out on the left and one match up front against one of the better sides in the division.

 

I'm beggining to get the impression you don't know what you're talking about.

[maxi_sopez]

adkins is great, but he seemed to be so unsure about subs today, and when he finally made up his mind it was the 80th minute and the game was over. very frustrating.

[Colinjb]

Getting my impression from watching Football First.

 

For the first part of the game, until Everton's goal went in we were on top, we looked excellent. Whether it was Everton underestimating us at the back or our excellent forward play... (or more likely a hybrid of the two) we looked great value for our lead; Jay Rodriguez will be kicking himself tonight for that miss to put us two up i'm sure. Then a moment where we failed to clear our lines led to the equaliser. This was the turning point of the game. All of a sudden the belief in our game plan ebbed away... Everton came at us. Gazzaniga will be dropped for our next game I feel, his lack of presence for the final two Everton goals was dissappointing. The lack of bite in our midfield was even more shocking though, we couldn't get a grip on the Toffees. When at full flow Everton were better then us..... but they had to raise their game to see us off.

 

The mental fragility in the team is a worry for me currently. Our key factor last year was momentum, our initial fixture run has seen it so that we couldn't develop an early head of steam. Our style of play at this stage could be a mixed blessing, it will ensure we will score goals but will equally leave us exposed. Without truly world class defenders and defensive midfielders that could be our downfall.... and whenever we conceed we look liable to do so again, it's almost as if the team expects to be under the cosh.

 

I expected us to struggle this season yet I have been encouraged by our first 6 games. The next two months will dictate our fate. I personally still feel we can survive yet the manner in which we would achieve it will leave us utterly breatheless. It's quite gung ho.

Edited 30 September, 2012 by Colinjb

[dubai_phil]

The summariser on PLTV (Abu Dhabi Sports) nailed it.

 

We started the game defending nice and high up the pitch and played well.

 

Then (for whatever reason) we just dropped deeper & deeper until we were defending in our own box "where any header won would be dangerous".

 

We saw it on the tV in the pub and were screaming at the team - we did exactly the same 1st half against Arsenal.

 

This is not a failing of NA, this is a failing on on pitch leadership, confidence, and experience.

 

Again, IMHO Lallana was not giving cover to Clyne and he & JRod simply managed to be wide when Everton came through the middle or narrow when they came at us wide.

 

It's all very well having your "best player" as Captain, but Adam needs to worry about his own game and (again IMHO) in L1 & nPc he had the time to cut in to his right foot, at this level he doesn't and that is why he is not so effective.

 

Whoever played the pass inside to the edge of the box (Ramirez I think) instead of wide right to the unmarked Richardson deserved to be shot. It was a poor hit and hope, FR was in acres of space having bust a gut and whoosh - two passes and they have taken FR out the game and scored.

 

Great football yes. Naive, almost schoolboy vs Men's Pub Team naivety.

 

We don't need new tactics we don't need a new manager, but we DO urgently need an experienced leader on the pitch

[CanadaSaint]

We don't need new tactics we don't need a new manager, but we DO urgently need an experienced leader on the pitch

 

I couldn't agree more. We can't keep waiting to "sort it out at half time" because we lack the ability to address issue on the pitch during the game.

 

That has been a feature of (probably) four of our games so far, with Nigel being very animated on the sideline trying to convey the adjustments needed because we've fallen off the "game plan."

 

As much as I like Lallana, his all-action style doesn't leave much time for receiving input from the bench and having a word in the appropriate ears. That's why we keep making recurrent tactical mistakes, and it's no coincidence that we've tended to be better after half time.

 

It would make a big difference if we could address this issue because the adjustments have, for the most part, been effective. Late but effective.

 

The captaincy is not an accolade, it's a job - and a really important one.

[Suomi Saint]

I thought Saints were poor overall. Everton only raised their game for 10-15 minutes and blew us away. The formation was all wrong and we left huge gaps at times.

[shurlock]

The summariser on PLTV (Abu Dhabi Sports) nailed it.

 

We started the game defending nice and high up the pitch and played well.

 

Then (for whatever reason) we just dropped deeper & deeper until we were defending in our own box "where any header won would be dangerous".

 

We saw it on the tV in the pub and were screaming at the team - we did exactly the same 1st half against Arsenal.

 

This is not a failing of NA, this is a failing on on pitch leadership, confidence, and experience.

 

Again, IMHO Lallana was not giving cover to Clyne and he & JRod simply managed to be wide when Everton came through the middle or narrow when they came at us wide.

 

It's all very well having your "best player" as Captain, but Adam needs to worry about his own game and (again IMHO) in L1 & nPc he had the time to cut in to his right foot, at this level he doesn't and that is why he is not so effective.

 

Whoever played the pass inside to the edge of the box (Ramirez I think) instead of wide right to the unmarked Richardson deserved to be shot. It was a poor hit and hope, FR was in acres of space having bust a gut and whoosh - two passes and they have taken FR out the game and scored.

 

Great football yes. Naive, almost schoolboy vs Men's Pub Team naivety.

 

We don't need new tactics we don't need a new manager, but we DO urgently need an experienced leader on the pitch

 

I thought their second came from our backline being ridiculously high. The throughball was child's play.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

The same inane drivel.

you could just tape him and replay it after every defeat.

 

which unfortunately we are going to Hear a lot it seems.

his repetitiveness is becoming nauseating.

nice to see others now questioning his ability at this level.

 

Agenda Man....Nauseating fool

[S-Clarke]

Agenda Man....Nauseating fool

 

Jeez, he actually says it was nice to see others questioning his ability? Why is that nice?

 

Oh, maybe because he's still trying to prove his point which he lost around 18 months ago. Sad.

[JustMike]

As someone said yesterday.."we have played 4 of the current top 7 and are still out of the relegation zone" positive spin available on everything

[Wade Garrett]

I remember November was also a huge month when we were last in the Premier League. We lost to Norwich, drew with West Brom and Crystal Palace and beat Pompey.

 

Under the guidance of the grossly out of his depth Steve Wigley.

[JPTCount]

More importantlly why is that **** striker Jay rod playing? he is USELESS!!!

 

my theory on this one is that mayuka and jay were offered a starting place against Wednesday mid week. mayuka turned it down and j rod took his opportunity and scored two goals, thus bumping him up to a first team start. even if mayuka wasn't given the choice it's still good management practice imo, it tells the whole squad, if they perform in the reserves they will get a chance in the first team.

 

anyway, j rod is our long term replacement for lambert. he will com good in the next 18 months.

[captainchris]

No idea who expected us to win at Everton. Even when poorer than they are currently they'd normally win by at least a couple.

 

That is a losing mentality - we have a winning one now ...........!

[Charlie Wayman]

This is what happens when Morgan goes missing and we delude ourselves into thinking that Fonte is good enough for the PL.

 

Looks like a long struggle as Villa and Wigan are only just above us and the only teams we looked capable of beating. Good thing is that Norwich look poor, QPR are a disorganised shambles and Reading are simply not good enough for this league so it could be a nail biter with (yet another - sigh!) great escape - - but we were promised better things by Cortese and he doubled the price of my ST on the back of that promise.