BNP membership leaked online.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

PM Please whoever has it.

 

Wonder if anyone has got hold of this list from a purely sales point of view?

[stevegrant]

Also, no-one is "losing" their job to someone coming in from abroad. There are also now cases where Eastern Europeans are moving home, and companies (ranging from fruit picking to bus companies) just cannot get the staff.

Presumably because many of the 1.85m recorded unemployed would rather sit on their arse all day for however much they get in benefits these days than earn a little bit more but have to work their arses off for it.

 

There also seems to almost be an arrogance about us as a nation that some jobs are "below" us, and as a result these roles invariably get filled by foreigners who are just happy to have a job and be paid for the privilege.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Just a bit of bait for the BNP followers amongst us....

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7737134.stm

 

Are you including yourself as a BNP follower Scotteh?

[bridge too far]

A large proportion of immigrants are from Eastern Europe and, generally, we have no choice but to accept them (EU membership is another debate). Also, generally speaking, immigrants create more jobs than they take and contribute more proportionally to the national wealth than the population as a whole.

 

However, recent figures show that whilst fewer people emigrated last year, also fewer people entered this country. So the net figure (of immigrants over emigrants) for last year has risen but fewer people from overseas actually want to live here. And I think this year's figures will be very different as a lot of Eastern Europeans are returning home. However, I suspect a large number of British ex-pats will also return home as the recession is biting even deeper in Spain for example. The point someone made about ex-pats in Spain using a disproportionate amount of the Spanish healthcare system is a valid one. No doubt, these ex-pats would hate to be considered to be in the same vein as some people consider immigrants here.

 

But going back to the core issue, my point is that everyone should be able to join a political party and express their views freely. It is then for the rest of us to debate and discredit those views in a rational way. The important thing to look at is the UNDERLYING principles of each party - not the way they currently present themselves.

 

This is why, in spite of the past ten years of New Labour, I continue to support the Labour Party - because I understand the CORE principles. This is also why I would continue to denigrate the BNP because I understand what they REALLY stand for.

[scott_saints]

Are you including yourself as a BNP follower Scotteh?

Nah. I don't consider myself a follower of any political parteh. This is because admittedly, I know diddly squat about any of them.

[Hatch]

What are the basic BNP policies for education?

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

There also seems to almost be an arrogance about us as a nation that some jobs are "below" us, and as a result these roles invariably get filled by foreigners who are just happy to have a job and be paid for the privilege.

 

I agree with this, there was a program on a while ago which highlighted this fact. They interviewed some chavs outside a JSA office (who were drinking cans of larger - nice) saying 'how would you like a job paying £20k p.a' they all said yes until they were told it was picking fruit (or something similar), they all then backed down and were disinterested. Citing it as a 'foreigner job'.

 

I think this is where the benefits system is failed, but not sure how this would be overcome.

[scott_saints]

What are the basic BNP policies for education?

From their website.....

 

"We are against the ‘trendy’ teaching methods that have made Britain one of the most poorly educated nations in Europe. We will end the practice of politically correct indoctrination in all its guises and we will restore discipline in the classroom, give authority back to teachers and put far greater emphasis on training young people in the industrial and technological skills necessary in the modern world. We will also seek to instill in our young people knowledge of and pride in the history, cultures and heritage of the native peoples of Britain!

[JohnnyFartPants]

Presumably because many of the 1.85m recorded unemployed would rather sit on their arse all day for however much they get in benefits these days than earn a little bit more but have to work their arses off for it.

 

There also seems to almost be an arrogance about us as a nation that some jobs are "below" us, and as a result these roles invariably get filled by foreigners who are just happy to have a job and be paid for the privilege.

 

Which indicates that our benefits system is open to abuse. Not wanting a job is not a reason to not be working, or rather it can be, but it shouldn't enable someone to then get benefits. All benefits except for the sick and disabled should be abolished. All menial jobs, nationwide, should be handed over to the government and work shy benefit scroungers should do them in order that they pay their way. Surely that isn't hard to organise?

[Hatch]

From their website.....

 

"We are against the ‘trendy’ teaching methods that have made Britain one of the most poorly educated nations in Europe. We will end the practice of politically correct indoctrination in all its guises and we will restore discipline in the classroom, give authority back to teachers and put far greater emphasis on training young people in the industrial and technological skills necessary in the modern world. We will also seek to instill in our young people knowledge of and pride in the history, cultures and heritage of the native peoples of Britain!

 

 

sounds not too dissimilar from the Hitler Youth...

[notnowcato]

Ms Inta Indans...!! A typo shorley??

[saint boggy]

Presumably because many of the 1.85m recorded unemployed would rather sit on their arse all day for however much they get in benefits these days than earn a little bit more but have to work their arses off for it.

 

There also seems to almost be an arrogance about us as a nation that some jobs are "below" us, and as a result these roles invariably get filled by foreigners who are just happy to have a job and be paid for the privilege.

i don't think it's that at all. it's just that the majority of us can simply NOT afford to take a job as a fruit picker (for instance) as the wages would not cover the cost of living, so those who are out of work are better off staying on benefits, and allowing foreign workers to do that job.

 

like i said, migrant workers have always helped our economy, and we have a simbiotic relationship with them, they need us and we need them.

but as our economy weakens and with immigration levels as they are it is becoming more of a parasitic relationship.

Edited 19 November, 2008 by saint boggy

[Robsk II]

I wish someone would provide some solid figures about the number of jobs truly 'taken' by immigrants. I expect the number is far lower than the crazies like to believe, and that the majority of these jobs are ones which many so-called natives would never have wanted previously. Now it seems like a bigger issue due to the global economic situation, but as usual, so many pople take a massively blinkered view. If a lot of these jobs are trades, try blaming the Thatcher government from moving away from apprenticeships and so on. Even go further, and say that, while it went too far, at the time that may have made sense, though it pains me to admit it. TRY to consider these things fully and deeply. TRY to consider that most people are immigrants historically. TRY to consider that most of us wouldn't want to pick fruit. TRY to consider the fact that many, many more lying benefits scrounging pr*cks are in fact white british than any other demographic, even by relative proportion.

 

Also, what's this about it now being an up and coming thing? Sure, a few more here and there join, as you might expect - the ignorant particularly are more likely to casually support the BNP in times like this. Yet 10,000 is not a major number in a country of 65,000,000, and it's the kind of party that a high proportion of its supporters would join. I have my political affiliations but because I'm not a zealot about them, I haven't joined any party. Yet if it was a competition about the numbers, I sure as hell would, and the BNPs numbers would be dwarfed. The BNP is certainly not the future of British politics. More, as usual, the future of far-right minority politics and the legitimised, sanitised face of prejudice.

[bungle]

i don't think it's that at all. it's just that the majority of us can simply NOT afford to take a job as a fruit picker (for instance) as the wages would not cover the cost of living, so those who are out of work are better off staying on benefits, and allowing foreign workers to do that job.

 

like i said, migrant workers have always helped our economy, and we have a simbiotic relationship with them, they need us and we need them.

but as our economy weakens and the levels of immigration rise it is becoming more of a parasitic relationship.

 

According to the recent TV programme on this, as mentioned above, the wage being offered was in the £16-20k per annum bracket, which is what I currently earn and am able to survive.

 

The issue is British people think that they need Sky TV, a wii, and beer money to survive, whereas our immagrant workers are happy with a roof over their head.

[Robsk II]

And - for all the supporters - what do you say about the hypocrisy? The use of the human rights act? The sweeping generalisations that are put aside when it suits the BNP? The number of ex-pats who are members? I'd be willing to be a fair amount of money that there are more British and ex-pats working abroad than there are current generation immigrants working here. Surely that sort of balances things out anyway, because if they'd stayed here in some sort of Brits only white-is-right fascism, there would still be too few jobs? Why can't people understand that it is not simply about immigrants, or this government. Economic crises are cyclic, they always happen every few decades. This is nothing new, and it's a fundamental problem with the economic system of the whole f*cking world! Get over it and stop looking for scapegoats. If you want a job as a fruit picker, get one. Don't sodding well moan that you can't afford to live on those wages. Maybe buy less copies of heat magazine and don't drink 10 pints every Friday. Avoid buying new tracksuits for your screaming kids as a cheap way of parenting them. I've had a woman who is on a lot of benefits on the Flowers estate say to me, "I haven't got time to look after me kids, I'm a full time mum". I joke you not. She does **** all, and her current bloke claims benefits as well as works / does the odd burglary. She's far from alone in being such a cretin. What will the BNP do about that? Nothing. Damn right. It's simply not that easy, and all the morons that don't bother to think about politics, the economy or society in a way that is anything but knee-jerk reactionary and daily-mail incited is welcome to the BNP.

[JohnnyFartPants]

From their website.....

 

"We are against the ‘trendy’ teaching methods that have made Britain one of the most poorly educated nations in Europe. We will end the practice of politically correct indoctrination in all its guises and we will restore discipline in the classroom, give authority back to teachers and put far greater emphasis on training young people in the industrial and technological skills necessary in the modern world. We will also seek to instill in our young people knowledge of and pride in the history, cultures and heritage of the native peoples of Britain!

 

I actually think that sounds all well and good and most of it hits the spot very nicely. The only problem is that it is merely a sound bite of some of their policy ideas. I dare say you could equally take snippets from a Hitler manifesto and make it read quite nicely too.

 

We do have a low standard of education in our schools. For instance, when you mention on here that many posters use the incorrect their/there/they're it is met with, "it's only a message board" and the same with to/too/two. The "only a message board" reply is rubbish as it is as easy to get right as it is to get wrong and only requires knowledge, something which schools should be passing on.

 

The only part of his paragraph that I do not like is the word "native" towards the end, as it implies people who moved here have no say or rights, but if he was ever to trace his or anyone's roots back very far I am sure that would also include himself and indeed most of us, the bell end.

[Robsk II]

Yeah, most of it sounds roughly OK, bar the jingo **** at the end, but remember this is the sanitised version. It's also far too easy to say things like this. I could create a political party in minutes with sound concepts. Also, the education standard is about the society a lot of the time, not about the teachers. No-one can turn that on its head quickly. Quite how they'd do this, I'd love to see. I'm sure they'd have an answer if I asked them, but it would be cheap, easy and not at all practicable.

[saint boggy]

According to the recent TV programme on this, as mentioned above, the wage being offered was in the £16-20k per annum bracket, which is what I currently earn and am able to survive.

 

The issue is British people think that they need Sky TV, a wii, and beer money to survive, whereas our immagrant workers are happy with a roof over their head.

you are quite right....... we are ,as a nation, greedy and materialistic. however , a programme i watched a couple of years back about the smuggling in of foreign workers claimed that they were being paid something along the lines of £12 a day (for an 11 hour shift), with 10 people sharing a 2 bedroom house etc.

i really can't see how ANY fruit farms could pay the sort of wages that you and INS referred to , the cost must be passed on to the consumer, which would make for god damn expensive apples!!!

[AwaySaint1]

A percentage of this forum will always denounce the bnp because they are the type of member who could never in a million years pull a white bird to marry hence they marry a foreigner and post here that the bnp are ****

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

According to the recent TV programme on this, as mentioned above, the wage being offered was in the £16-20k per annum bracket, which is what I currently earn and am able to survive.

 

The issue is British people think that they need Sky TV, a wii, and beer money to survive, whereas our immagrant workers are happy with a roof over their head.

 

Agreed. I have luckily never had to claim JSA and prey this continues, however, I believe it is around £76 a week (Someone feel free to correct me if I have it wrong). This equates to less than £4k p.a. I for one would jump at the chance to earn 4-5 times this amount, no matter what the job was. When in need, no job is below me (other than working underground! )

[Robsk II]

A percentage of this forum will always denounce the bnp because they are the type of member who could never in a million years pull a white bird to marry hence they marry a foreigner and post here that the bnp are ****

 

Thanks for the contribution, moron.

[Special K]

Presumably because many of the 1.85m recorded unemployed would rather sit on their arse all day for however much they get in benefits these days than earn a little bit more but have to work their arses off for it.

 

There also seems to almost be an arrogance about us as a nation that some jobs are "below" us, and as a result these roles invariably get filled by foreigners who are just happy to have a job and be paid for the privilege.

 

Absolutely right.

 

We have needed foreign labour to fill the vacancies that aren't filled by Brits because years of uber liberalism has created an burgeoning underclass that considers itself to be exempt from self-responsibility; from educating themselves to providing for themselves and even worse, this translates to their offspring. Examples given on that recent Prescott programme "I'm not working class because i don't work!" etc etc.

 

It's ironic that the Labour Party, born out of the need for social justice for a committed working class and all the ethics of prudence and reponsibility that go with it, should accelerate the creation of a system that promotes the selfish, the workshy and the profligate.

 

The real problem is not migrant workers but the increasing numbers within our indiginous society that are unwilling to work.

[scott_saints]

http://bnp.org.uk/about-us/policies/

 

Quite an interesting read if you don't know much about their policies.

 

But as Rob said, it's far too easy to make policies "sound" good (although some of the content just sounds ridiculous and way OTT in a Hitler kinda way!!)

Edited 19 November, 2008 by scott_saints

[JohnnyFartPants]

Agreed. I have luckily never had to claim JSA and prey this continues, however, I believe it is around £76 a week (Someone feel free to correct me if I have it wrong). This equates to less than £4k p.a. I for one would jump at the chance to earn 4-5 times this amount, no matter what the job was. When in need, no job is below me (other than working underground! )

 

So he is getting £76 a week, and his National Insurance will be getting paid to ensure he misses no pension contributions and in return he doesn't have to work? £76 a week might not sound like a lot, but when you consider we are all putting IN to a system, and he is ONLY taking out, why is it too much to ask that his £76 a week not be a pro-rata hourly job at minimum wages, doing something that will BENEFIT (proper use of the word) his community?

 

There is so much this lot could be doing rather than getting money for nothing.

[Robsk II]

But as Rob said, it's far too easy to make policies "sound" good.

 

Yeah - it's an important thing that, again, many people simply get taken in by. It's a bit like the lib-dems, only more extreme. They know full well that, certainly for the forseeable, they don't have a realistic chance to get many in parliament, much less government. As such they can push the envelope and promise some things that the big two cannot. The BNP finds itself even more licensed to say whatever they want, because not only will they (quite possibly) never have to deliver on it - certainly not as they are now - but they aren't even called upon to detail their policies with a great deal of depth. Not many people really take them seriously, frankly, so not many bother to ask them about the realities of their policy because it makes little difference. On the other hand, many regarded the NSDAP as a bit of a joke for a good few years - but as their popularity grew to become a vaguely recognised party, so did the complexity and depth - and realism - of most of their policies. At the moment they can just say a bizarre mish mash of things to try to appeal to as many people on one or two emotive policies as possible.

 

The fact is, there are socio-economic and politcal practicalities that simply can't be avoided or ignored. In many ways it's a shame, but it's why politics has seemed relatively central for so long. The realities and limitations have meant that, no matter who is in power, some thngs will be broadly the same and some issues will simply not be addressed very well. It's a fact. This is why there will always be failings no matter who is in power. It's a tough job, running the country, and it comes with some harsh realities.

[stevegrant]

So he is getting £76 a week, and his National Insurance will be getting paid to ensure he misses no pension contributions and in return he doesn't have to work? £76 a week might not sound like a lot, but when you consider we are all putting IN to a system, and he is ONLY taking out, why is it too much to ask that his £76 a week not be a pro-rata hourly job at minimum wages, doing something that will BENEFIT (proper use of the word) his community?

 

There is so much this lot could be doing rather than getting money for nothing.

Totally agree.

 

£76 a week at the national minimum wage for people aged 22 and over of £5.73 per hour means that those on "Jobseekers" Allowance would have to work at least 14 hours per week (more if you include NI and PAYE deductions) in order to receive the same amount of money.

 

If you fancied a relatively easy life and were given the option of either a) being given some money for doing nothing or b) being given some money in exchange for working for at least 14 hours per week, which one are you going to choose? It's a no-brainer.

 

It's not even as if there aren't any available jobs. I've just had a quick look at CWjobs, which is one of the main recruitment websites for the IT industry, and they are currently listing more than 15,000 available jobs, and that's just in one industry. Obviously the finance and construction sectors have taken a bit of a bashing in recent months, but there are still jobs available in those sectors so long as people are willing to accept that their financial worth to companies in those sectors isn't what it used to be right now.

[Hatch]

The real problem is not migrant workers but the increasing numbers within our indiginous society that are unwilling to work.

 

and these numbers are increasing at an alarming rate...

[thesaint sfc]

According to the recent TV programme on this, as mentioned above, the wage being offered was in the £16-20k per annum bracket, which is what I currently earn and am able to survive.

 

The issue is British people think that they need Sky TV, a wii, and beer money to survive, whereas our immagrant workers are happy with a roof over their head.

 

Totally 100% agree.

 

Sums everything up and puts it into perspective for me.

[Mole]

Nick Griffin claim this will help the BNP to grow, but sadly he's deluded. There's a sizeable proprtion of the country (myself included) who agree with the fundamentals of BNP policy who now wouldn't join them in a million years and this will impact on party funds.

[Ponty]

If being a member of the BNP is not embarrassing or intrinsically wrong, why do so many people on that list demand 'absolute discretion' regarding their membership?

 

Makes me lol anyway.

[Thedelldays]

isnt it true that an eu worker here can claim child benefit from the UK coffers for their child that lives in their homeland and never likely to come here?

 

sad state of affairs

[Mole]

If being a member of the BNP is not embarrassing or intrinsically wrong, why do so many people on that list demand 'absolute discretion' regarding their membership?

 

Makes me lol anyway.

 

Being a member of the armed forces is nothing to be embarrassed about or intrinsically wrong but they still wouldn't want their names and addresses made public because al queada (for e.g) could use the data to commit attocities.

 

It's the same with BNP membership. It's a perfect respectable party and i'd be proud to be a member, but there are far left groups who don't respect democracy and will probably use the leaked data to commit crimes.

[JohnnyFartPants]

If being a member of the BNP is not embarrassing or intrinsically wrong, why do so many people on that list demand 'absolute discretion' regarding their membership?

 

Makes me lol anyway.

 

It crossed my mind too. That said, I insist on the same with my Showaddywaddy fan club membership.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

If being a member of the BNP is not embarrassing or intrinsically wrong, why do so many people on that list demand 'absolute discretion' regarding their membership?

 

Makes me lol anyway.

 

At a guess because it is deemed illegal perhaps? In terms of police officers, it is illegal for them to become a BNP party member, so I would imagine, if they did join, discretion would be of utmost importance.

 

Would be interesting to see if these people do infact lose their jobs now

[Thedelldays]

If being a member of the BNP is not embarrassing or intrinsically wrong, why do so many people on that list demand 'absolute discretion' regarding their membership?

 

Makes me lol anyway.

i see what you mean...

 

however, i feel the same line of 'discretion' applies to me in my support of saints..

[Mole]

At a guess because it is deemed illegal perhaps? In terms of police officers, it is illegal for them to become a BNP party member, so I would imagine, if they did join, discretion would be of utmost importance.

 

Would be interesting to see if these people do infact lose their jobs now

 

I have heard that Police officers are not allowed to be members, but i'm not sure it's true. If it is true then it's wrong.

[Ponty]

Some very good answers.

 

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

isnt it true that an eu worker here can claim child benefit from the UK coffers for their child that lives in their homeland and never likely to come here?

 

sad state of affairs

 

I think the situation is that if a person migrates to the UK from, say Poland, they are then entitled to child benefit here (presuming the child is here too. I am not sure if this is relevant if the child does not come over here though).

They are also entitled to JSA should they lose their job over here and what I do find bizarre is that if they are made unemployed and do claim JSA from here (only need to claim once) then they can move back home to Poland, and the UK will continue to pay the JSA and their child benefits while they are back living in Poland.

 

What I find wrong, is that this is so open to abuse for EU workers to come over here, sign on, then go back home and get £76 p/w (which I would imagine to go a lot further over there than over here) without working!

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

I have heard that Police officers are not allowed to be members, but i'm not sure it's true. If it is true then it's wrong.

 

Tis true, which is why I believe a few people have stated they need discretion, as if it came out, they would lose their jobs.

[Mole]

I think the situation is that if a person migrates to the UK from, say Poland, they are then entitled to child benefit here (presuming the child is here too. I am not sure if this is relevant if the child does not come over here though).

They are also entitled to JSA should they lose their job over here and what I do find bizarre is that if they are made unemployed and do claim JSA from here (only need to claim once) then they can move back home to Poland, and the UK will continue to pay the JSA and their child benefits while they are back living in Poland.

 

What I find wrong, is that this is so open to abuse for EU workers to come over here, sign on, then go back home and get £76 p/w (which I would imagine to go a lot further over there than over here) without working!

 

And you can bet that they all know about this fiddle.

[Thedelldays]

why do we have to be so open with who we let in and just leave the gates open for so long...why?

[GenevaSaint]

isnt it true that an eu worker here can claim child benefit from the UK coffers for their child that lives in their homeland and never likely to come here?

sad state of affairs

 

For every person that complains about this sort of thing, you could do the same in other EU countries you know. There is **** all stopping the whingers moving to another EU country and "taking their jobs".

[Mole]

why do we have to be so open with who we let in and just leave the gates open for so long...why?

 

Beacuse immigrants are likely to vote for Labour.

[Thedelldays]

For every person that complains about this sort of thing, you could do the same in other EU countries you know. There is **** all stopping the whingers moving to another EU country and "taking their jobs".

hmmm

 

why do i want to leave my country and go to another?

 

same goes for anyone else..

 

i wonder if I could pick up the same benefits in poland...what do you reckon..

[Robsk II]

hmmm

 

why do i want to leave my country and go to another?

 

same goes for anyone else..

 

i wonder if I could pick up the same benefits in poland...what do you reckon..

 

Because if your country was a bit screwed and moving to another allowed you and your loved ones to benefit... why not?

 

Another thing about all this immigrant hating is the dehumanisation of them. Christ, most of us would do some dramatic things to safeguard our futures and improve the lot of our families if we thought it would work.

[thesaint sfc]

why do we have to be so open with who we let in and just leave the gates open for so long...why?

 

Why would we not? We have benefited from it.

[GenevaSaint]

Beacuse immigrants are likely to vote for Labour.

 

The gates have been left open for so long as we are part of the EU like it or not. Thus, we can all move to other countries and seek work there if we like. If you want to stop the majority of immigration to the UK we would need to leave the EU, which I don't think is financially viable. There are obviously pro and anti EU sides that will quote figures about the impacts of staying in or leaving that will obviously suit their purposes. It would be great to see an honest opinion from someone who could be objective......

[Thedelldays]

Why would we not? We have benefited from it.

yes of course.....the country is at exploding point...new not enough housing, new housing being built of flood plains..NHS at stretching point...positive descrimiation....etc

 

there have been good points but what is the harm in a far more controlled immigration service....NONE AT ALL

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

hmmm

 

why do i want to leave my country and go to another?

 

same goes for anyone else..

 

i wonder if I could pick up the same benefits in poland...what do you reckon..

 

Yes you are eligible to do so under EU legislation, however, the amount you would get would not be anywhere near the amount we give out. Obviously due to cost of living being higher over here.

 

I think it was quoted roughly £986 per annum for a Polish person who went back home for the child benefits, whereas a Brit coming back home would get £146 ish.

 

What I think is wrong, is that they are paid a UK level benefit, but living in Polish costs, so would be a lot better off than a brit who is paid pittance in the opposite direction. £146 p.a is not enough child benefit to bring a child up on over here.

[Thedelldays]

Because if your country was a bit screwed and moving to another allowed you and your loved ones to benefit... why not?

 

Another thing about all this immigrant hating is the dehumanisation of them. Christ, most of us would do some dramatic things to safeguard our futures and improve the lot of our families if we thought it would work.

 

that is fine...but for now (and from along time ago) a far more controlled immigration policy should (HAVE) be in play..

 

did you know that when poland and bulgaria joined the EU the government stated that they were expected up to 17k new eu workers to flock to the UK (they said this due ease peoples worries that we will get too full)

 

in fact, nearly 1m came not 17k