Club Charter League Tables

[BadgerBadger]

Good luck to 'em I say, at least they're doing something positive and constructive rather than most soap box charlies (myself included)

[VectisSaint]

Some of us need to try and keep you lot in check.

 

If it wasn't for us grounded, normal people that are able to take a step back and look at things with a bit of perspective, you lot would be going into melt down because we're not in a Champions League spot, playing in a 50k seater stadium.

You do talk some twaddle, another of the deluded few who still think they are at primary school and that everyone is in their gang or the other gang. Who are these mythical people you seem to want to "keep in check". Just because some people do not want to have a pop at the club for any trivial reason. Who really gives a toss whether the club has a supporters charter on the web site or not. I don't recall ever looking for a club charter during the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s or even the noughties, I just went along to watch the footy and support my team. Supporters charters, just another sign of the namby pamby nature of the game these days.

[This Charming Man]

You do talk some twaddle, another of the deluded few who still think they are at primary school and that everyone is in their gang or the other gang. Who are these mythical people you seem to want to "keep in check". Just because some people do not want to have a pop at the club for any trivial reason. Who really gives a toss whether the club has a supporters charter on the web site or not. I don't recall ever looking for a club charter during the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s or even the noughties, I just went along to watch the footy and support my team. Supporters charters, just another sign of the namby pamby nature of the game these days.

 

Think you'll find you're the one that labelled me.

 

I also couldn't give a damn about a supporters charter, all a load of rubbish. Just thought I would raise the issue on here as someone may be interested. I'll be sure to scour the internet now only for articles that portray as the best thing since sliced bread. Wouldn't want to upset anyone...

[laughing now]

Think you'll find you're the one that labelled me.

 

I also couldn't give a damn about a supporters charter, all a load of rubbish. Just thought I would raise the issue on here as someone may be interested. I'll be sure to scour the internet now only for articles that portray as the best thing since sliced bread. Wouldn't want to upset anyone...

 

 

I prefer unsliced, always have.

[CB Fry]

I don't really care whether the fans are involved in the club or not, as I don't really think that will mean the club is run better.

 

 

 

I care. Nothing worse than the do-gooder let's-have-a-fans-parliament Anoraktivists.

 

Maybe serial killers. Maybe.

[The Kraken]

Think you'll find you're the one that labelled me.

 

I also couldn't give a damn about a supporters charter, all a load of rubbish. Just thought I would raise the issue on here as someone may be interested. I'll be sure to scour the internet now only for articles that portray as the best thing since sliced bread. Wouldn't want to upset anyone...

 

You can bet that if we did have a published customer charter, and had the FSF deemed it one of the best, it would have garnered a lot more interest and praise than the faux indignation this thread has attracted.

[VectisSaint]

Think you'll find you're the one that labelled me.

Did I? What label was that then? Can't see any label of any sort in my post.

[hypochondriac]

You can bet that if we did have a published customer charter, and had the FSF deemed it one of the best, it would have garnered a lot more interest and praise than the faux indignation this thread has attracted.

 

That's the one

[VectisSaint]

Well not exactly positive.

It could be. I almost feel proud of the fact that like Swansea, Reading and a few other enlightened clubs, my Club is not so anal as to worry about whether it has a fecking fans charter or not. More interested in whether we win a game of football on a Saturday afternoon.

[Thedelldays]

You can bet that if we did have a published customer charter, and had the FSF deemed it one of the best, it would have garnered a lot more interest and praise than the faux indignation this thread has attracted.

so what..?

is it a bad thing that some (a few really on here that is about it) that really think the club they support is amazing...?

is that so bad...?..

 

after all..who else has sung "we are by far the greatest team"

 

being positive about your club is what (some think) being a supporter is all about..

[Gemmel]

We used to have a charter on our website when Markus and Nicola first took over. We were then (I think - happy to be corrected) in breach of our own charter (Over Nick Illingsworth season ticket resolution) and from memory liable for an FA fine - No idea if that was ever implemented. The original M&N charter also spoke about season tickets being available over installements, so I think that was another reason it went.

 

I also think (And again happy to be corrected) that it is an FA requirement to have the club charter available on the web site (If a club has one) or available on request....... This is applies to all standards and age groups (Kids football included).

[The Kraken]

so what..?

is it a bad thing that some (a few really on here that is about it) that really think the club they support is amazing...?

is that so bad...?..

 

after all..who else has sung "we are by far the greatest team"

 

being positive about your club is what (some think) being a supporter is all about..

 

A customer charter has little to do with actual performance on the pitch, TDD.

[Turkish]

Here's a couple of reminders as to what happens when fans get involved with football clubs..

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/1267518.statue_of_saints_legend_unveiled_outside_st_marys/

 

http://www.southampton.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=12889

Edited 26 September, 2012 by Turkish

[Thedelldays]

A customer charter has little to do with actual performance on the pitch, TDD.

I know...but nor does the ticket office yet that is run down..infact, seeing as this is a saints message board...a great deal of things don't effect results that we talk about

 

ticketing, NC hiring and firing ticket office managers.....etc etc

[Sour Mash]

Here's a couple of reminders as to what happens when fans get involved with football clubs..

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/1267518.statue_of_saints_legend_unveiled_outside_st_marys/

 

http://www.southampton.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=12889

What's that got to do with the FSF and Supporter's Charters?

[Turkish]

What's that got to do with the FSF and Supporter's Charters?

 

I forgot to quote the post about fans getting involved with clubs.

[This Charming Man]

Did I? What label was that then? Can't see any label of any sort in my post.

 

You implied that I was one of the negative posters on here. I prefer realist.

[trousers]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/9952758.Saints_given__reminder__about_charter_from_FSF

[Big Bad Bob]

I've been thinking about this and basically I don't really understand the need for a club charter. It is in essence a document stating "best practice" for the club!

 

If I have a problem with the club my first port of call wouldn't be looking for the club's charter on the website. I'd be looking for a customer services contact (either telephone or email). If I couldn't find that then I'd be using the various fora to ask the question.

 

If that still bought no joy either getting hold of the club or a satisfactory response to my complaint *THEN* I would do a t'internet search for a Football Ombudsman.

 

Did very much the same thing recently when Mars stitched me up with one of their promotions, I didn't know the channels to follow but the internet showed me the way.

 

So, basically, what I'm trying to say is "Club Charter === Pointless Exercise"

[Guan 2.0]

While we're on the subject of the FSF, perhaps one of their biggest successes in recent years was their campaign on behalf of 80 Stoke City fans who were issued with a Section 27 notice by Greater Manchester Police while they were peacefully drinking in a pub in Irlam, which basically forced the Stoke fans - despite no evidence to suggest they were a risk - back onto their coaches and back to Stoke without being allowed to attend the game.

 

In total, £184,850 was subsequently paid out by GMP in compensation.

 

Wow. How is that a good thing?

[The Kraken]

I've been thinking about this and basically I don't really understand the need for a club charter. It is in essence a document stating "best practice" for the club!

 

If I have a problem with the club my first port of call wouldn't be looking for the club's charter on the website. I'd be looking for a customer services contact (either telephone or email). If I couldn't find that then I'd be using the various fora to ask the question.

 

If that still bought no joy either getting hold of the club or a satisfactory response to my complaint *THEN* I would do a t'internet search for a Football Ombudsman.

 

Did very much the same thing recently when Mars stitched me up with one of their promotions, I didn't know the channels to follow but the internet showed me the way.

 

So, basically, what I'm trying to say is "Club Charter === Pointless Exercise"

 

Perhaps you should let the FSF know that SFC don't do Customer Charters, because we have the internet?

 

How silly of them not to realise.

[Big Bad Bob]

Perhaps you should let the FSF know that SFC don't do Customer Charters, because we have the internet?

 

How silly of them not to realise.

 

Weak, Kraken, very weak.

 

I didn't know about the FSF or Customer Charters before this thread, so that is the way I would have done things AND I would guess an awful lot of other people would too..

[The Kraken]

Weak, Kraken, very weak.

 

I didn't know about the FSF or Customer Charters before this thread, so that is the way I would have done things AND I would guess an awful lot of other people would too..

 

I think the point is; there's a movement afoot such that you don't have to do that. Make it easier for the "seller" to communicate with the consumer, and vice-versa. And also encourage clubs to engage with their customer-base. I'd have thought that could only be a good thing, but what do I know?

[Big Bad Bob]

I think the point is; there's a movement afoot such that you don't have to do that. Make it easier for the "seller" to communicate with the consumer, and vice-versa. And also encourage clubs to engage with their customer-base. I'd have thought that could only be a good thing, but what do I know?

 

I agree it's a good thing, I just don't think *UNLESS IT IS MADE VERY VISIBLE BY THE FA AND THE FSF AND THE TFO* that many people will care or know about it

 

And they will use other means to resolve their problems..

 

In fact the FSF need to start making themselves more visible to football "customers", maybe this is the first step..

[The9]

No real surprise to see where we are in the table;

 

http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/Liverpool-and-Palace-top-tables-as-the-Football-Supporters-Federation-ranks-club-charters.php

 

Frankly we should be on negative points after the Illingsworth thing.

[This Charming Man]

Frankly we should be on negative points after the Illingsworth thing.

 

We'd be top of the dictator league though.

[The9]

We used to have a charter on our website when Markus and Nicola first took over. We were then (I think - happy to be corrected) in breach of our own charter (Over Nick Illingsworth season ticket resolution) and from memory liable for an FA fine - No idea if that was ever implemented. The original M&N charter also spoke about season tickets being available over installments, so I think that was another reason it went.

 

All of this is correct (I also have no idea if the club was ever fined).

 

The Fans' Charter was put on the website from about Jan 2010, as it mentioned the right to pay via instalments (which of course couldn't have been referring to summer 2009 as the charter didn't exist until after that ST period). In summer 2010, the first ST sales after the Charter, there was no instalment plan.

 

This coincided with the conclusion to Nick Illingsworth's case about refusing him an ST, and the club then didn't bother updating the charter from the 2010 version which was already out of date and at odds with their existing policy, and it disappeared altogether with the website redesign(s) that followed.

[The9]

We'd be top of the dictator league though.

 

I'm sure the Football Unsupporters Federation table will show this appropriately.

 

Worth noting that as there's no particular reason for listing teams by division, we're also joint bottom of the overall Prem/Championship league behind everyone in the Championship except Ipswich as well.

[JRM]

On the subject of safe standing, I don't really see the point.

 

QUOTE]

 

do you like to stand at football? if so, why not get behind the campaign?

do you like to sit at football, but find it frustrating that people stand in front of you? if so, get behind the campaign.

 

giving people the choice will make it a better match going experience for everyone

[JRM]

Wow. How is that a good thing?

 

it is a good thing because the GMP thought they could get away with ignoring the stoke fan's basic right of freedom of movement because, being football, the police can get away with treating fans how they like.

 

FSF did a brilliant job in that case.

 

Germany is a good example where fans have a voice and it works well.

[wild-saint]

Personally I am disgusted with this and as such have decided to boycott all matches and merchandising until our position in the league improves and we are at least no worse than fourth from bottom of the league. I fact i may start a campaign to dislodge the current chairman and install a replacement whose main aim is to impose a premier league class complaints procedure so those who find the time and winney and moan can do so efficiently.

[The Cat]

I'm ambiguous to it, but the people that don't want a fan on the board seem to completely ignore Swansea and how well they are doing.

 

As for the charter, well if we have to do one, just do it.

[Fan The Flames]

This thread needs the picture of the dad and son giving their ST's back.

 

I would have thought that the fans of four of the five clubs with zero chartered points are happy with their clubs at the moment. I thought charters were a flash in the pan and equally as pointless as John Major, the man that championed them.

[Brussels Saint]

I think this is a fair topic for a forum such as this and good to debate.

 

Personally I think such groups can have a good place, but often unfortunately they seem run by the "axe to grind" types, which turn many people off. Publishing a league table and "reminding" the club, is an example of exactly how to come over as self-important timewasters.

 

I do sense the club is pushing its "Together as One" mantra, which is almost from a fan perspective a "with us or against us" position. It gets results and so long as the vast majority of fans are in the "with" camp (which I think they are), NC knows this and will continue to run the club with this single minded purpose. I doubt he loses a wink of sleep over those "against"

 

Premier League in 2 seasons, investment in the clubs infrastructure & 12m on players like Gaston Ramirez keeps me firmly in the "with" section that a few Customer Service annoyances, odd decisions & fall-outs with club legends wont change.

There probably is a line which would see the fans turn, my bet is NC knows where that is. Lets hope so.

[Guan 2.0]

it is a good thing because the GMP thought they could get away with ignoring the stoke fan's basic right of freedom of movement because, being football, the police can get away with treating fans how they like.

 

FSF did a brilliant job in that case.

 

Germany is a good example where fans have a voice and it works well.

 

Note that I only highlighted the amount in my post. I agree it was wrong, but I think £250 per man would have been appropriate. I don't see how depriving the taxpayer (you know, the people who fund the police) of just shy of £200,000 in the current economic climate, because a few peeps who couldn't go an afternoon without a drink missed watching their rugby team hoof it at the Ethiad, is a 'brilliant result'.

[stevegrant]

Note that I only highlighted the amount in my post. I agree it was wrong, but I think £250 per man would have been appropriate. I don't see how depriving the taxpayer (you know, the people who fund the police) of just shy of £200,000 in the current economic climate, because a few peeps who couldn't go an afternoon without a drink missed watching their rugby team hoof it at the Ethiad, is a 'brilliant result'.

I'd argue that the severity of the payout will make the police take much more consideration when using freedom-restricting legislation in future rather than just applying it willy-nilly to a group of supporters about whom they possessed absolutely no evidence that they posed a disorder threat, and as such the payout is perfectly justified.

 

If the police know that the worst that's going to happen is that they have to pay out £250, they won't think twice about herding people up and disrupting their perfectly peaceful and legal movements every other week. That £2300 per victim suddenly makes them actually think about whether what they're doing is actually right.

[This Charming Man]

Note that I only highlighted the amount in my post. I agree it was wrong, but I think £250 per man would have been appropriate. I don't see how depriving the taxpayer (you know, the people who fund the police) of just shy of £200,000 in the current economic climate, because a few peeps who couldn't go an afternoon without a drink missed watching their rugby team hoof it at the Ethiad, is a 'brilliant result'.

 

Missing the game and ruining their afternoon isn't the point. The point here is the police abusing their 'powers', this is something you'd expect from a police state.

[manji]

Ain't it that the FSF is a self appointed bunch of moaning busybodies with no official or legal powers, and they is just being crybabies cos we is not giving them props on our websites.

Uber fanontheboard w a n k ers.

[Turkish]

Missing the game and ruining their afternoon isn't the point. The point here is the police abusing their 'powers', this is something you'd expect from a police state.

 

Like they have been doing for 30 years when it comes to football. At rugby or cricket you can take beer up into the stands, even try to do that at football you'd get arrested, taken to court and given a three year ban. How is this right?

[Thedelldays]

Like they have been doing for 30 years when it comes to football. At rugby or cricket you can take beer up into the stands, even try to do that at football you'd get arrested, taken to court and given a three year ban. How is this right?

i guess they will do what ever it takes not to return to the 80's....rightly or wrongly

[LGTL]

Would this "fans charter" tell me that I can walk in at 2.59 from the pub, tell me the best places to stay for away days or the best pubs to frequent? If not, I'm not interested.

 

Sign of the times that they are required though really, I mean who on earth cares?

[The Kraken]

Would this "fans charter" tell me that I can walk in at 2.59 from the pub, tell me the best places to stay for away days or the best pubs to frequent? If not, I'm not interested.

 

Sign of the times that they are required though really, I mean who on earth cares?

 

Just

[LGTL]

Just

 

Well I've managed 24 years and done every game for the last couple of seasons without worrying about it, so I'm sure I'll survive either way.

[Turkish]

Well I've managed 24 years and done every game for the last couple of seasons without worrying about it, so I'm sure I'll survive either way.

 

What a hero.

[LGTL]

What a hero.

 

Thanks Turkish.

 

This thread has inspired me to keep a close eye on when it's released though. I hope it's worth it.

[Guan 2.0]

Missing the game and ruining their afternoon isn't the point. The point here is the police abusing their 'powers', this is something you'd expect from a police state.

 

Yeah, it's just like North Korea or Cuba over here. And it's still not worth hundreds of thousands of pounds of our money just to give the Police a rap on the knuckles.

[Turkish]

Yeah, it's just like North Korea or Cuba over here. And it's still not worth hundreds of thousands of pounds of our money just to give the Police a rap on the knuckles.

 

I see this as a small way of repayment for lads have been jailed on trumped up charges and given longer sentences because it's football. This is just other people getting thier loss of earnings.