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Club Charter League Tables

This Charming Man

By This Charming Man,
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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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Posted

Taken from the article

 

Southampton is another club whose charter has impressed the FSF in past seasons but the Saints seem to have forgotten to upload it to their website for 2012-13 – hopefully this acts as a reminder. But the FSF said that it’s not just visibility which matters when it comes to club charters as bad practice can afflict highly accessible charters too.

 

Of course it might be there but finding it on the new O/S might prove tricky:?

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Bearsy

Bearsy

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*waits for information as to why this news is actual a good thing for SFC*

 

Ain't it that the FSF is a self appointed bunch of moaning busybodies with no official or legal powers, and they is just being crybabies cos we is not giving them props on our websites.

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Colinjb

Colinjb

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Ain't it that the FSF is a self appointed bunch of moaning busybodies with no official or legal powers, and they is just being crybabies cos we is not giving them props on our websites.

 

Correct. Just because a group of people get together, give themselves a badge and claim to represent something, it doesn't give them automatic right and authority to do anything.

 

#coughs#saintstrust#coughs#

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Colinjb

Colinjb

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get the impression they are a bunch of "fan on the board" types

 

I love it when groups like that argue, 'But we represent fans like you! We want to do good things for you by working your ideas at board level!'

 

If they specifically took on board my ideas they would immediately disband. I don't doubt their honourable intentions, but a fan on the board; horrible horrible idea.

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trousers

trousers

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Taken from the article

 

Southampton is another club whose charter has impressed the FSF in past seasons but the Saints seem to have forgotten to upload it to their website for 2012-13 – hopefully this acts as a reminder. But the FSF said that it’s not just visibility which matters when it comes to club charters as bad practice can afflict highly accessible charters too.

 

Of course it might be there but finding it on the new O/S might prove tricky:?

 

An organisation highlighting out of date information that has this on their website....

 

http://www.fsf.org.uk/ground-guide/stadiums/portsmouth/fratton-park/

 

Fratton Park suffered due to the Taylor Report in 1995 and the club had to fence off certain areas of the ground and install temporary seating, until 1997 when the new 4, 600 seater Fratton Stand opened for business. Portsmouth have unveiled plans for a new £600million waterfront stadium and residential project. The new stadium is being designed by the architects responsible for the 2008 Olympic Beijing National Stadium and the Allianz Stadium in Munich.

 

Portsmouth is perhaps unusual, in that most home supporters are there to support Portsmouth, not just to watch the Premier League game.

 

Away fans will be glad to hear the new roof will be ready for the start of the 2007/08 season. Toilet and catering facilities also being improved throughout the ground.

 

:lol:

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stevegrant

stevegrant

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I'm struggling to see anywhere where they claim any sort of "authority", to be honest.

 

It never ceases to amuse me how organisations that attempt to help their fellow football fans - whether they support the same club or not - get labelled with this "self-appointed" or "they've got no authority" nonsense.

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Colinjb

Colinjb

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Posted (edited)
I'm struggling to see anywhere where they claim any sort of "authority", to be honest.

 

It never ceases to amuse me how organisations that attempt to help their fellow football fans - whether they support the same club or not - get labelled with this "self-appointed" or "they've got no authority" nonsense.

 

Without the authority, what is the point of their existence? I'm sure they do not do what they do out of a pure desire to keep busy.

 

They are trying to help fans, I respect that. However the grading of clubs on the basis of their own self defined rules and criticising those that havn't adopted them stikes as a very self important measure.

 

Mind you, being in the same company as Swansea and Stoke is a far from bad place to be.

Edited by Colinjb
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stevegrant

stevegrant

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Without the authority, what is their point?

They provide a service to football fans, their members.

 

They lead campaigns on key issues (safe standing being a primary and relevant example), and also offer legal advice where required.

 

Still, I'm sure when you or someone you know gets inadvertently caught up in some bother at a game - and it does happen, more regularly than you may think - you won't be interested in knowing your rights or getting free access to advice and support from solicitors who specialise in football banning orders and other public order issues. :thumbup:

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Colinjb

Colinjb

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Still, I'm sure when you or someone you know gets inadvertently caught up in some bother at a game - and it does happen, more regularly than you may think - you won't be interested in knowing your rights or getting free access to advice and support from solicitors who specialise in football banning orders and other public order issues. :thumbup:

 

As someone who has never been involved in any thing of that nature (or any of my friends come to mention it...) it's something I have never needed to know, but yes I accept your point.

 

Offering legal advice for those in the wrong place at the wrong time is one thing, arbritarily judging clubs against a set of their own standards is quite another, at that point they begin to show an inclination towards dictating how certain aspects of a club should be run. I get the impression that you see this as a logical extension of their own ideals, I see it as overstepping the mark.

 

Take an idea such as 'The Football Forum users Federation.'

 

A group of forum users from all clubs group together to form their own list of guidelines on how forum users should be treated by moderators and site owners. Then they form lead tables based on the compliance of these forums to these guidelines and publicise the results.....

 

I suppose it's a question of personal politics, I find the notion of such things to be self righteous, arbitrary and a bit vulgar. Others would consider it as a good idea. It's just my personal view, can understand if others feel differently.

Edited by Colinjb
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stevegrant

stevegrant

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I'll add that the whole point of these "Club Charter" league tables is that every club is - supposedly - obliged to publish a Customer/Fans Charter which states what fans can expect in terms of the service they receive from people at the club, whether that's from stewards, ticket office staff, megastore staff, etc. The FSF, as an independent body unattached to any specific club, has chosen to review these charters based on a number of criteria and ranked each of them as such. It gives a decent barometer of those clubs who (at least claim to) do more to have strong relations with their fans and those who fairly openly don't give a toss.

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stevegrant

stevegrant

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Obliged by who? The FA? What's the penalty for not having one?

I believe it's a PL/FL thing, and it's one of their "please do this just so we're seen to be doing something, even though we actually don't give a flying one" ventures, so as far as I'm aware there's no punishment for not having one.

 

Similarly, the Independent Football Ombudsman was set up by the two leagues to mediate when clubs and supporters are in dispute (it actually seems to be surprisingly rare that the ombudsman is asked to get involved), but while they will publish their findings for everyone to see and the clubs all agreed to set up the ombudsman in the first place, there is no obligation on clubs to comply with any of their findings. Most clubs do generally comply on the rare occasion they're shown to have behaved particularly improperly, though.

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trousers

trousers

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I believe it's a PL/FL thing, and it's one of their "please do this just so we're seen to be doing something, even though we actually don't give a flying one" ventures, so as far as I'm aware there's no punishment for not having one.

 

Similarly, the Independent Football Ombudsman was set up by the two leagues to mediate when clubs and supporters are in dispute (it actually seems to be surprisingly rare that the ombudsman is asked to get involved), but while they will publish their findings for everyone to see and the clubs all agreed to set up the ombudsman in the first place, there is no obligation on clubs to comply with any of their findings. Most clubs do generally comply on the rare occasion they're shown to have behaved particularly improperly, though.

 

Cheers. Can't see Cortese bothering with it then if it's not enforced by anyone.

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stevegrant

stevegrant

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While we're on the subject of the FSF, perhaps one of their biggest successes in recent years was their campaign on behalf of 80 Stoke City fans who were issued with a Section 27 notice by Greater Manchester Police while they were peacefully drinking in a pub in Irlam, which basically forced the Stoke fans - despite no evidence to suggest they were a risk - back onto their coaches and back to Stoke without being allowed to attend the game.

 

In total, £184,850 was subsequently paid out by GMP in compensation. :thumbup:

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Colinjb

Colinjb

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While we're on the subject of the FSF, perhaps one of their biggest successes in recent years was their campaign on behalf of 80 Stoke City fans who were issued with a Section 27 notice by Greater Manchester Police while they were peacefully drinking in a pub in Irlam, which basically forced the Stoke fans - despite no evidence to suggest they were a risk - back onto their coaches and back to Stoke without being allowed to attend the game.

 

In total, £184,850 was subsequently paid out by GMP in compensation. :thumbup:

 

Good to hear.

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edprice1984

edprice1984

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On the subject of safe standing, I don't really see the point.

 

FSF do tryto help fans and it is a bit poor that Saints haven't updated their website to include their club charter, but in the grand scheme of things this isn't the most crucial news about the club that we will see this season. As long as we constructively question what the club are doing (unlike the skates), personally that will do for me. Talking of which, have there been any candlelight suppers with the Don recently?

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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On the subject of safe standing, I don't really see the point.

 

FSF do tryto help fans and it is a bit poor that Saints haven't updated their website to include their club charter, but in the grand scheme of things this isn't the most crucial news about the club that we will see this season. As long as we constructively question what the club are doing (unlike the skates), personally that will do for me. Talking of which, have there been any candlelight suppers with the Don recently?

 

Don't think anyone suggested it was.

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edprice1984

edprice1984

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Hypo, just a throw away line. As you say, no-one has suggested that.

 

It is an interesting topic, organisations such as the FSF are useful to have around, if nothing else they often have decent contacts within the media and can lobby and bring issues that effect fans to a wider audience. If these issues get press, something is normally done.

 

In terms of Saints, as I stated previously - we just need to be constructive rather than moan and whinge for the sake of it etc.

 

I think we probably agree with each other on most Saints things, I maybe slightly more optimistic...;)

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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Posted
I'll add that the whole point of these "Club Charter" league tables is that every club is - supposedly - obliged to publish a Customer/Fans Charter which states what fans can expect in terms of the service they receive from people at the club, whether that's from stewards, ticket office staff, megastore staff, etc. The FSF, as an independent body unattached to any specific club, has chosen to review these charters based on a number of criteria and ranked each of them as such. It gives a decent barometer of those clubs who (at least claim to) do more to have strong relations with their fans and those who fairly openly don't give a toss.

 

Fair point but Charters etc are often not worth the paper they are written on , the actions and realty is probably more important. I appreciate that 'how fans are treated, respect and service' is important - but no more so than any customer experience - maybe some still have that belief that 'fans are the club' and so its more important to them etc, but I think that feeling is probably now reserved for a smaller minority - I would suggest most fans, look at the league table, the signings the quality of the football and general feelgood factor - eg the performance and rate their 'experience' based on that, rather than booking fees and parking costs etc - Most are realistic and understand that things like ticketing issues are part and parcel of newly introduced and overhauled systems etc and take a while to sort themselves out etc

 

The tit for tat 'the club is doing this wrong, and that wrong' tends to be mostly from those who wish the club were still 'more community' with greater fan involvement, than the corporate nature that football has become - fair enough, but that is the reality of the modern game - we can afterall vote with our feet, its a product, we should be enjoyinging the experience, we dont, we stop paying our money. With most fans though, the stop going tends to be linked to league position, division, quality etc rather than the fan 'related issues'

 

I can understand that for some a their club means so much more than for others - although the extreme cynic might comment that when t borders on obsession its possibly reflective of something else that is missing - but that obsession seems a more modern phenomenon tha say the more saturday faternoon generational thing that it was say up until the late 60s - how many saints fans now go and see Pompey at home when we are away for example?

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Posted
Hypo, just a throw away line. As you say, no-one has suggested that.

 

It is an interesting topic, organisations such as the FSF are useful to have around, if nothing else they often have decent contacts within the media and can lobby and bring issues that effect fans to a wider audience. If these issues get press, something is normally done.

 

In terms of Saints, as I stated previously - we just need to be constructive rather than moan and whinge for the sake of it etc.

 

I think we probably agree with each other on most Saints things, I maybe slightly more optimistic...;)

 

I imagine we would do. I do think the club is pretty poor with communication and things like selling tickets thoughts. In comparison to other clubs I certainly wouldn't describe us as particularly fan friendly. If I were listing the positives and negatives then that would be a big negative that I would highlight for the club to perform better in. Things like this aren't the worst thing in the world but it's not the greatest thing for the club.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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Posted
While we're on the subject of the FSF, perhaps one of their biggest successes in recent years was their campaign on behalf of 80 Stoke City fans who were issued with a Section 27 notice by Greater Manchester Police while they were peacefully drinking in a pub in Irlam, which basically forced the Stoke fans - despite no evidence to suggest they were a risk - back onto their coaches and back to Stoke without being allowed to attend the game.

 

In total, £184,850 was subsequently paid out by GMP in compensation. :thumbup:

 

That is indeed a good thing and I dont think anyone has any objection to any organization that represents the rights of fans - but is it really any different to any other consumer organization? The 'standards of expectation' is the difficult one as 'expectation' will tend to be set by those actually involved, rather than say the average punter who may have very different expectations?

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Ewell

Ewell

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Posted
They provide a service to football fans, their members.

 

They lead campaigns on key issues (safe standing being a primary and relevant example), and also offer legal advice where required.

 

Still, I'm sure when you or someone you know gets inadvertently caught up in some bother at a game - and it does happen, more regularly than you may think - you won't be interested in knowing your rights or getting free access to advice and support from solicitors who specialise in football banning orders and other public order issues. :thumbup:

 

Very well said they are a very helpful organisation who have all football fans best interests at heart. It is easy to knock them sitting at your keyboard yet I bet the majority who have are doing so despite knowing diddly squat about them. :rolleyes:

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The Kraken

The Kraken

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Fair point but Charters etc are often not worth the paper they are written on ' date=' the actions and realty is probably more important. [/quote']

 

How very true. One of the first things this management regime did when coming in to the club was a draw up a customer charter, including all sorts of pledges. Within 6 months they'd binned some of those ideals, most notably the offer of a facility offer to pay for season tickets within a staged payment plan (and giving no notice that this would be withdrawn).

 

You're very correct Frank; actions speak far louder than words.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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I imagine we would do. I do think the club is pretty poor with communication and things like selling tickets thoughts. In comparison to other clubs I certainly wouldn't describe us as particularly fan friendly. If I were listing the positives and negatives then that would be a big negative that I would highlight for the club to perform better in. Things like this aren't the worst thing in the world but it's not the greatest thing for the club.

 

That is true of course, and ultimately any club/business or whatever must deliver on customer expectation, or else they lose customers. And certainly there are things such teh practical issues with ticketing etc that need resolution - its teh assumption that the reason its poor is because the does not give a **** that is perhaps self indulgent. You can bet the club is seriously pished off that revenue is lost because of it, but the need to feel 'loved' I guess is what I find a little odd - I dont need my club to love me, just score some fricken goals and get points/trophies! Or am I alone in this?

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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How very true. One of the first things this management regime did when coming in to the club was a draw up a customer charter, including all sorts of pledges. Within 6 months they'd binned some of those ideals, most notably the offer of a facility offer to pay for season tickets within a staged payment plan (and giving no notice that this would be withdrawn).

 

You're very correct Frank; actions speak far louder than words.

 

True, no denial from me there, I just find it a bit indulgent that fans have this slightly over the top estimation of what they should expect and also immediately assume that where the customer service levels fail or fall short of that expectation, its because the regime dont give a feck - rather than than accept the more probable explanations - admitedly the club is not very forthcoming with their explanations, but come on, we are we grown ups or kids expecting everything to be aimed just at us?

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This Charming Man

This Charming Man

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No real surprise to see who is raising this issue. Every negative that can be found will be found by certain posters.

 

Some of us need to try and keep you lot in check.

 

If it wasn't for us grounded, normal people that are able to take a step back and look at things with a bit of perspective, you lot would be going into melt down because we're not in a Champions League spot, playing in a 50k seater stadium.

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