Ryan Dickson help needed

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I have been a bit bemused why Dickson has not been considered for Capital One Cup duty this season and excluded from the 25 man squad, not withstanding perhaps that NA simply does not rate him.

I looked up the tribunal decision when we signed him and it was this

The tribunal ordered Saints to pay £125,000 and then a further £25,000 for every 10 appearances up to 40. There was also an extra £25,000 to be found if Saints gained promotion any time in the subsequent three years.

 

I make it that he has started 19 games with 10 sub appearances in all competitions open to everyone. Obviously one more app triggers another £25,000, but then I realised he came on as a sub in the 10-11 Johnstones Paint trophy defeat v Swindon which technically means he has 30 apps under his belt or - and this is my question - does the JPT not count towards his tally?

The answer must be out there but I am no internet sleuth unlike some on here and I need the answer because I am compiling his profile for "ALL the SAINTS" due out next year.

Edited 26 September, 2012 by Fitzhugh Fella

[doddisalegend]

wow good digging....Personally I just assumed that as Dickson wasn't even good enough to displace Harding he certainaly wasn't going to much use above League 1 level. Still if it's to save 25K I guess I can understand it ....should keep the executive wash room at the club in nice toilet rolls and perfumed soap for a while:)

 

Just wonder why he hasn't moved on I'm sure some league 2 side would have him.......guess his wages are to high?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

wow good digging....Personally I just assumed that as Dickson wasn't even good enough to displace Harding he certainaly wasn't going to much use above League 1 level. Still if it's to save 25K I guess I can understand it ....should keep the executive wash room at the club in nice toilet rolls and perfumed soap for a while:)

 

Just wonder why he hasn't moved on I'm sure some league 2 side would have him.......guess his wages are to high?

 

 

Yea but if the sub app in the JPT counts - we could still get 9 more games o0ut of him at no extra cost. as you say wages must be a problem but surprise dhe has not gone out on loan

[doddisalegend]

Yea but if the sub app in the JPT counts - we could still get 9 more games o0ut of him at no extra cost. as you say wages must be a problem but surprise dhe has not gone out on loan

 

Problem is 25K or not this is a guy who wasn't even as good as Dan Harding and makes Fox look good would rather we gave Shaw a chance.

[Turkish]

Obviously Cortese isn't picking him as he was the last Pardew signing.

[VectisSaint]

I have been a bit bemused why Dickson has not been considered for Capital One Cup duty this season and excluded from the 25 man squad,

Dickson is in the squad, see http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/saints-submit-squad-list-354115.aspx

I actually find it hard to believe that we would not play him because it might cost us £25k, maybe in past incarnations of Saints, but not now. Just don't think this is the reason. The simple fact is that he is not good enough, wasn't good enough in the Championship let alone the PL. Guess we just haven't found a club willing to take him on loan as yet, that will probably change once a few teams start to get a few injuries/suspensions.

[Turkish]

Dickson is in the squad, see http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/saints-submit-squad-list-354115.aspx

I actually find it hard to believe that we would not play him because it might cost us £25k, maybe in past incarnations of Saints, but not now. Just don't think this is the reason. The simple fact is that he is not good enough, wasn't good enough in the Championship let alone the PL. Guess we just haven't found a club willing to take him on loan as yet, that will probably change once a few teams start to get a few injuries/suspensions.

 

A club did want to take him over the summer but we wouldn't pay up his contract so he stayed put.

[Saint Garrett]

He's better than Seaborne at LB.

[SuperSAINT]

A club did want to take him over the summer but we wouldn't pay up his contract so he stayed put.

 

Yeah, wasn't that Yeovil?

 

He then said something along the lines of he'd be getting paid more money to sit watching premier league footy?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Thanks for the replies - but does anyone know whether tribunals consider JPT appearances to count?

[SuperSAINT]

Thanks for the replies - but does anyone know whether tribunals consider JPT appearances to count?

 

This sounds like a case for MLG.

[egg]

Thanks for the replies - but does anyone know whether tribunals consider JPT appearances to count?

 

I would imagine that the contract will define what counts as an appearance.

 

Nonetheless he's probably about 6th choice LB now. Clyne, Fox, Shaw, Seabourne and probably Reeves are all ahead of him.

[Bucks Saint]

Best game was Oldham away. Richardson and Dickson bombed forward on numerous occasions. 6 nil. Thank you very much! Ok so it was Oldham and they posed zero threat, but still was an excellent performance!

[CitySaint]

Horses mouth, had a move to Crawley blocked as Saints wouldn't contribute to wages (his GF is an air hostess so Crawley near Gatwick was ideal). The extra 25k is payable on next appearance so won't play, can leave but only on Cortese's terms. Nothing good to say about Cortese, says he is on a power trip. Has never known any other chairman to act in the way Cortese does.

[BARCELONASAINT]

Horses mouth, had a move to Crawley blocked as Saints wouldn't contribute to wages (his GF is an air hostess so Crawley near Gatwick was ideal). The extra 25k is payable on next appearance so won't play, can leave but only on Cortese's terms. Nothing good to say about Cortese, says he is on a power trip. Has never known any other chairman to act in the way Cortese does.

 

What a shocker, player grumbles about the nasty chairman doing whats in the best interest of the club. Funny how we still manage to sign all these very decent players and existing players want or have extended their contracts.....its really quite amazing when we have the devil incarnate as chairman!

[melmacian_saint]

Clearly the club has grown faster than what anyone thought.

 

Otherwise it's hard to understand why we're so worried about getting a decent deal going for players like Dickson. Obviously the initial big expenditure gave results faster than expected, and we'd still be at a considerable loss by letting them go.

[Turkish]

What a shocker, player grumbles about the nasty chairman doing whats in the best interest of the club. Funny how we still manage to sign all these very decent players and existing players want or have extended their contracts.....its really quite amazing when we have the devil incarnate as chairman!

 

How is it the best interests of the club to have an unhappy player sitting around with no chance of playing and picking up a full wage when he could have left and we'd only be picking up a percentage of his wage and probably got a loan or transfer fee out of it as well?

[BARCELONASAINT]

How is it the best interests of the club to have an unhappy player sitting around with no chance of playing and picking up a full wage when he could have left and we'd only be picking up a percentage of his wage and probably got a loan or transfer fee out of it as well?

 

 

Ummm, let me think about this for a nano second!.....Jason Puncheon springs to mind. We did what the club viewed was right for the club and refused to let the player just walk away or go for under what we valued him at. At the end of the day we now have a player that has started showing the promise we obviously saw when we bought him.

 

Now i'm not for one moment saying RD is the same as JP, but it is for the club to decide what is in the clubs best interest and not us. We don't run the club thank god and to be fair 99.9% have not an inkling of what goes on at board level. I trust the club make sound decisions based on the interest of the club and thats all i care about.

[The Kraken]

Ummm, let me think about this for a nano second!.....Jason Puncheon springs to mind. We did what the club viewed was right for the club and refused to let the player just walk away or go for under what we valued him at. At the end of the day we now have a player that has started showing the promise we obviously saw when we bought him.

 

Now i'm not for one moment saying RD is the same as JP, but it is for the club to decide what is in the clubs best interest and not us. We don't run the club thank god and to be fair 99.9% have not an inkling of what goes on at board level. I trust the club make sound decisions based on the interest of the club and thats all i care about.

 

No, it really isn't. Unless you want a fanbase who believe everything they're told and question nothing. The whole point of a message board like this one is to debate issues; not just blindly assume that the club will get absolutely everything 100% correct.

[Turkish]

Ummm, let me think about this for a nano second!.....Jason Puncheon springs to mind. We did what the club viewed was right for the club and refused to let the player just walk away or go for under what we valued him at. At the end of the day we now have a player that has started showing the promise we obviously saw when we bought him.

 

Now i'm not for one moment saying RD is the same as JP, but it is for the club to decide what is in the clubs best interest and not us. We don't run the club thank god and to be fair 99.9% have not an inkling of what goes on at board level. I trust the club make sound decisions based on the interest of the club and thats all i care about.

 

So it's in the clubs best interests to be paying a full wage for a player that is as close to the first team as you and I, when he could go elsewhere and we get a fee and some of his wages paid is it?

[Doctoroncall]

So it's in the clubs best interests to be paying a full wage for a player that is as close to the first team as you and I, when he could go elsewhere and we get a fee and some of his wages paid is it?

 

Depends on his wages and what his pay-out would be since he hasn't (i assume) asked for a transfer, so cannot be to unhappy about it. I wouldn't imagine a club like Yeovil would want to pay a fee. I don't think there any winners in this situation.

[Turkish]

Depends on his wages and what his pay-out would be since he hasn't (i assume) asked for a transfer, so cannot be to unhappy about it. I wouldn't imagine a Yeovil would want to pay a fee. I don't think there any winners in this situation.

 

His tweet during the summer suggested he wasn't over the moon about it. But he has probably had a decent pay rise on promotion and we are now paying him it for doing nothing instead of paying a percentage and let him go.

[VectisSaint]

A club did want to take him over the summer but we wouldn't pay up his contract so he stayed put.

My response specifically referred to "on loan".

[DT]

It's because he is really bad at football

[sotonist]

Horses mouth, had a move to Crawley blocked as Saints wouldn't contribute to wages (his GF is an air hostess so Crawley near Gatwick was ideal). The extra 25k is payable on next appearance so won't play, can leave but only on Cortese's terms. Nothing good to say about Cortese, says he is on a power trip. Has never known any other chairman to act in the way Cortese does.

 

Half the other chairmen he's known lead Plymouth into admin tbh. Brentford are probably doing well to be treading water though.

[Doctoroncall]

His tweet during the summer suggested he wasn't over the moon about it. But he has probably had a decent pay rise on promotion and we are now paying him it for doing nothing instead of paying a percentage and let him go.

 

From the limited amount of info I'd agree it makes sense to get him out of the building and promote a youngster if appropriate. But unfortunately I don't know all the relevant information and he can't be too unhappy if he hasn't forced the issue if he really does want to play footy.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Horses mouth, had a move to Crawley blocked as Saints wouldn't contribute to wages (his GF is an air hostess so Crawley near Gatwick was ideal). The extra 25k is payable on next appearance so won't play, can leave but only on Cortese's terms. Nothing good to say about Cortese, says he is on a power trip. Has never known any other chairman to act in the way Cortese does.

 

well thanks for that which means presumably the JPT app does not count towards the 30

[the saint in winchester]

Horses mouth, had a move to Crawley blocked as Saints wouldn't contribute to wages (his GF is an air hostess so Crawley near Gatwick was ideal). The extra 25k is payable on next appearance so won't play, can leave but only on Cortese's terms. Nothing good to say about Cortese, says he is on a power trip. Has never known any other chairman to act in the way Cortese does.

 

So rather than let him play for Crawley and reduce the wage we are paying him (as Crawley would chip in), the club prefers to pay him a full wage to do nothing. Speaking as an accountant, that doesn't make financial sense. Pay him £7k to play elsewhere or £10k to sit in our stand. (figures notional). I don't get it.

[saintfully]

Presumbly the offer to him is along the lines of "You want to play football? Fine, rip up your contract with us an you can go." Seems like a reasonable approach from the club as far as I'm concerned. A greedy player gets paid in the short term but screws himself for the long term. The way we are playing it, the only sensible thing for Ryan to do is agree to ripping up his contract and to sign a new contract appropriate to his level with a new club??

 

Or maybe I know f-all and am embarassing myself?

 

(Again).

[egg]

So rather than let him play for Crawley and reduce the wage we are paying him (as Crawley would chip in), the club prefers to pay him a full wage to do nothing. Speaking as an accountant, that doesn't make financial sense. Pay him £7k to play elsewhere or £10k to sit in our stand. (figures notional). I don't get it.

 

Sadly that's the saints way now and a factor in why our younger players aren't off playing league football to gain experience. Makes no financial or football sense.

[Thedelldays]

So rather than let him play for Crawley and reduce the wage we are paying him (as Crawley would chip in), the club prefers to pay him a full wage to do nothing. Speaking as an accountant, that doesn't make financial sense. Pay him £7k to play elsewhere or £10k to sit in our stand. (figures notional). I don't get it.

if he really wants to play football...im sure SFC would be happy to to let him go if he wanted to walk away from his contract.....which of course, despite his bleating..he won't

[Turkish]

if he really wants to play football...im sure SFC would be happy to to let him go if he wanted to walk away from his contract.....which of course, despite his bleating..he won't

 

You can't really blame him though can you. He's probably getting a relatively decent wage at Saints. It's not a Man City type situation where he'd go from £100k a week to £50k a week for first team football. Wages in league one and two aren't that great and he probably getting more in a week than he'd get in a month at a club down there. I find it strange that we wouldn't let him go when he's got no chance of playing and we'd get a fee and some of his wages paid. Still I'm sure it's all in the clubs best interests.

[sotonjoe]

Why on earth some of you expect Saints to pay him to play for Crawley, I have no idea. If he wants to go Crawley, he should accept what they can offer to pay him. His alternative is to sit on his arse, seeing out his contract and claiming his inflated wages.

[The Kraken]

You can't really blame him though can you. He's probably getting a relatively decent wage at Saints. It's not a Man City type situation where he'd go from £100k a week to £50k a week for first team football. Wages in league one and two aren't that great and he probably getting more in a week than he'd get in a month at a club down there. I find it strange that we wouldn't let him go when he's got no chance of playing and we'd get a fee and some of his wages paid. Still I'm sure it's all in the clubs best interests.

 

Exactly. At his level, seeing out his contract with Saints could well be the difference between never having to work again, and having to re-train for a career outside of football when he hangs up his boots. I'm sure he'd rather be playing for us than not; I'm also sure he think about his future life (even it does mean playing the mercenary card in the short term).

 

I don't see the upside of us hanging on to him, even if we do pay a proportion of his wages. As you say though, I'm sure SFC know exactly what they're doing.

[Jonnyboy]

I heard Cortese has a thing for his wife. (see: sfc wags thread)

[jam]

You can't really blame him though can you. He's probably getting a relatively decent wage at Saints. It's not a Man City type situation where he'd go from £100k a week to £50k a week for first team football. Wages in league one and two aren't that great and he probably getting more in a week than he'd get in a month at a club down there. I find it strange that we wouldn't let him go when he's got no chance of playing and we'd get a fee and some of his wages paid. Still I'm sure it's all in the clubs best interests.

 

I guess it's a case of NC (I assume) not wanting to feel like the club (or he) is being taken for a ride. If, say, Crawley weren't offering to chip in that much towards his wages I could see why the management wouldn't be particularly bothered to pay him to play for another club and be near his girlfriend. Especially if (again, completely speculating), Dickson wasn't willing to take a pay cut to move.

 

It seemed a bit similar with Puncheon when Blackpool seemed to be willing to take him off our hands for a few hundred grand and people were suggesting we just get rid of him as he was a 'disruptive influence' and he had no future here. If course, Puncheon had by then demonstrated that he was potentially an EPL player while Dickson has not.

 

Of course, it could just be a case of the club cutting its nose off to spite its face rather than themselves negotiate on a contract that no longer suits either party.

 

Regarding whether Dickson has a future - I get the impression that if Adkins doesn't feel that he can rely on a player to do what he wants then that player isn't going to get a look in. It seemed like Harding never really recovered from the (Carlisle, I think) game when Adkins hauled him off pretty early after some important errors.

[egg]

Why on earth some of you expect Saints to pay him to play for Crawley, I have no idea. If he wants to go Crawley, he should accept what they can offer to pay him. His alternative is to sit on his arse, seeing out his contract and claiming his inflated wages.

 

Why on earth would you want him to not play for us but receive a full wage? How is that better than someone else paying part of his wages and him maintaining form (and value) by playing football elsewhere?

[sotonjoe]

Why on earth would you want him to not play for us but receive a full wage? How is that better than someone else paying part of his wages and him maintaining form (and value) by playing football elsewhere?

 

 

It's the same situation for all reserve players. You pay them a 'full wage' to be here in case they are called upon to do a job. You don't ship out players just because they're not in the first eleven because you think you're 'saving money'.

[Chez]

The vitriol on here towards out of favour players like Dickson is a shame. Why the hostility? He gave his all when given the opportunity. I have always liked him (especially his effort and willingness to get up and down) and without doubt (every Brentford fan would agree) that he was a top left back in league 1, so I see no reason why he could not proposer in the Championship, given a run in a side.

 

I don't really understand why we have not let him go out on loan. Crawley/Yeovil must have offered a very low percentage of his wages otherwise surely it was in our interests. Mind you, they know we are not interested in keeping him so they perhaps offered a derisory figure which we were not willing to accept. I hope an agreement can be found as the current status quo is not good for any party.

 

Could he have played yesterday as I don't see Seaborne as being good enough to play left back. Perhaps we were just giving him some fitness. Might be preferable to putting Dickson in the ship window.

[egg]

It's the same situation for all reserve players. You pay them a 'full wage' to be here in case they are called upon to do a job. You don't ship out players just because they're not in the first eleven because you think you're 'saving money'.

 

Not at all. You keep those that are likely to be called upon. You potentially keep those you may have to call upon. You don't need to keep those that have no prospect of being called upon - it hinders the player and makes no commercial sense.

[sotonjoe]

Not at all. You keep those that are likely to be called upon. You potentially keep those you may have to call upon. You don't need to keep those that have no prospect of being called upon - it hinders the player and makes no commercial sense.

 

He's in the 25 man Premier League squad, so I'd say we've decided he could be called upon and hence he's still here. He wouldn't be here if we didn't want him here.

[Chez]

He's in the 25 man Premier League squad, so I'd say we've decided he could be called upon and hence he's still here. He wouldn't be here if we didn't want him here.

 

then why play Seaborne and not him at left back?

[egg]

then why play Seaborne and not him at left back?

 

Quite. As I said above, he's about 6th choice now. If we won't subsidise a season long loan we may as well move him on until January and have him playing/in the shop window in the meantime.

[Pat from Poole]

I always thought Dickson was a decent player, certainly better than Harding. He was one of our real contributors in our promotion run-in two seasons ago. That cross he put over for Lambert at Leyton Orient was just fantastic; also scored the crucial 2nd goal at Plymouth which effectively sealed promotion. Have never understood why he hasn't been given more of a chance.

[L1Minus10]

Much better than Harding and has the pace that Fox lacks as well. not sure about his defending as we didn't do much of that in League 1.

[RonManager]

I always thought Dickson was a decent player, certainly better than Harding. He was one of our real contributors in our promotion run-in two seasons ago. That cross he put over for Lambert at Leyton Orient was just fantastic; also scored the crucial 2nd goal at Plymouth which effectively sealed promotion. Have never understood why he hasn't been given more of a chance.

That was Harding.lol.

[the saint in winchester]

This is getting dafter by the comment. Options should be "Ryan, you can (1) go to Crawley and accept their wages offer, or (2) go to Crawley, accept their wages offer and we'll add a little (not to the full value of your wage here, mind). There is no third option to sit here and draw a full wage."

 

Having said that ... I would play him, pay Brentford their dues, and get him back in the groove. Just plain silly to leave him on the sidelines while paying him.

[Sour Mash]

This is getting dafter by the comment. Options should be "Ryan, you can (1) go to Crawley and accept their wages offer, or (2) go to Crawley, accept their wages offer and we'll add a little (not to the full value of your wage here, mind). There is no third option to sit here and draw a full wage."

 

Having said that ... I would play him, pay Brentford their dues, and get him back in the groove. Just plain silly to leave him on the sidelines while paying him.

You do know what a contract is?

[Lets B Avenue]

That was Harding.lol.

 

No it wasnt.

[sydney_saint]

I'm worried I'm going to sound silly here and that it has been mentioned, but would appearances for other clubs whilst still contracted here (ie loan) trigger a payment or do the appearances have to be for Southampton?