Plebs

[Thedelldays]

With respect, I think most of you are missing the point here. The issue is what using the word 'pleb' says about the person saying it, not any offence caused to the police officer ...who didn't say he was offended by it btw.

 

The reason why the media have focussed on the word 'pleb' in the phrase "you ****ing pleb", and not the generally more offensive word '****ing', is that it indicates that Mitchell still has the mindset and attitude of a spoilt public schoolboy -- he thinks he is above the rest of us , and we mere 'plebs' should recognise that he is more important, and that he is above the rules that apply to mere ordinary people. Bear in mind that most of the cabinet went to public school and are independently wealthy, and that they are continuously desperate to prove that they do NOT have this mindset , and you can see why this is news.

 

Add to that the implication that Mitchell has since lied about what he said, and he doesn't come out of this incident as the sort of person I want running my country for me

 

What has wealth or anything got to do with this..

 

If he called the coppers a mong or fuk-tard would he get less crap as it is more working class?

[Ken Tone]

Mitchell made a bad mistake using the word "pleb", as you say. Had he called the policeman a "c*nt", he would demonstrate that he is one of the masses and they would have accepted him as "one of us". So it was unfortunate for him that because of his upbringing and the education he received, that in the heat of the moment he reacted in line with what came naturally to his mind. All of our politicians should be educated in the public sector, so that when they cuss and swear at anybody that annoys them, they use the language of the common man.

 

But it is gratifying that you have conclusive proof that Mitchell had lied and that therefore you are able to establish that you don't want people like that running your country.

 

Excuse me for being a bit blase about this mountain out of a molehill situation, because I feel that not only are most of our elected politicians capable of such incidents at some time in their careers, regardless of which party they represent, or whatever their background or education was, but neither are the Police force totally and utterly lily-white. At least the electorate have the power to remove any politician they dislike.

 

Read what I said Wes. I didn't say anything about proof, conclusive or otherwise. I said 'implication'.

 

Nor did I say anything about the police being lilywhite. You are still missing the point. I don't give a damn about the policeman being offended or not, and indeed nowhere has anyone said he was offended. The reason why the media are focussing on this is because of what his choice of insult says about the attitude of the chief whip of the tory party to ordinary people, not from his social background and class. It showed he considered himself to be superior to them. If you disagree with that, why do you think it is the word 'pleb' is that is in the news, not the swearing?

 

And am I not entitled to refer to the UK as my country then?

[Thedelldays]

Ken... He is superior to them.

He is superior to me... Should he for some reason turn up at my work... He would get all the marks of respect that comes with anyone from government

 

Same with the police and any uniformed service that works for the state

 

If you wear a uniform and can handle being called a pleb then you have issue..... I have said far far worse everyday to people below me in the food chain

[Ken Tone]

What has wealth or anything got to do with this..

 

If he called the coppers a mong or fuk-tard would he get less crap as it is more working class?

 

Well ...sort of yes, actually, though maybe not with those particular words because many consider them so offensive, and you are taking your point to the extreme. But had he said eg '****ing git' rather than '****ing pleb' and not made comments about how the policemam should 'know his place', then of course there would still have been a fuss, but it would have died down quicker than this.

 

The media are making such a fuss becasue this they are taking this as an indication that top tories are out of touch with the ordinary people of the country -- middle class as well as working class.

[Thedelldays]

****ing git......... Oh no

[Ken Tone]

Ken... He is superior to them.

He is superior to me... Should he for some reason turn up at my work... He would get all the marks of respect that comes with anyone from government

 

Same with the police and any uniformed service that works for the state

 

If you wear a uniform and can handle being called a pleb then you have issue..... I have said far far worse everyday to people below me in the food chain

 

But with office and rank comes the responsibility to be civil. When you were in the Navy, you surely would not have expected an admiral to call you a ****ing pleb and tell you to know your place , especially if his reason for doig so was because you were eg making his car stop at a security checkpoint at the entrance to a base ?

[Thedelldays]

But with office and rank comes the responsibility to be civil. When you were in the Navy, you surely would not have expected an admiral to call you a ****ing pleb and tell you to know your place , especially if his reason for doig so was because you were eg making his car stop at a security checkpoint at the entrance to a base ?

 

Yes I would... And have been called far worse and regularly say far worse.....

[Ken Tone]

Yes I would... And have been called far worse and regularly say far worse.....

 

Ok, if you disagree with my interpretation, why do you think the media is focussing on the word 'pleb' more than the the swearing as such ?

[Tokyo-Saint]

Delldays do you travel to your sub in a time machine? Also, out of interest, do you wear a double breasted suit?

[pap]

Delldays do you travel to your sub in a time machine? Also, out of interest, do you wear a double breasted suit?

 

He just knows his place. Deep down, he's scum from a Millbrook council estate, and everyone in authority is better and wiser than him, right, TDD?

[Wes Tender]

Read what I said Wes. I didn't say anything about proof, conclusive or otherwise. I said 'implication'.

 

Nor did I say anything about the police being lilywhite. You are still missing the point. I don't give a damn about the policeman being offended or not, and indeed nowhere has anyone said he was offended. The reason why the media are focussing on this is because of what his choice of insult says about the attitude of the chief whip of the tory party to ordinary people, not from his social background and class. It showed he considered himself to be superior to them. If you disagree with that, why do you think it is the word 'pleb' is that is in the news, not the swearing?

 

And am I not entitled to refer to the UK as my country then?

 

Yes, I took on board that you said "implication", but then you clearly made up your mind that he had lied, because you didn't want people "like him" running "your" country. I didn't see you qualify your statement by saying "if he has lied".

 

So you maintain that the main reason why the press are going with the story is because Mitchell used the word "Pleb" to describe the Policeman and that word demonstrates his disdain for the ordinary people who are not of his social class?

 

The swearing is not in the news because thankfully we have not yet reached the stage in broadcast news, or reported news in the papers where such expletives are printed verbatim.

 

Personally, I would be more disappointed at the use of such industrial language from an MP, rather than a really quite mild insult such as "pleb," but as I say, that is what came to his mind in the heat of the moment because of his background socially and his education. But that sort of background and education is not exclusively a Tory thing; the other two major parties have several MPs at the top including their leaders, who have similar backgrounds and would probably use similar terminology. Don't I recall Gordon Brown being in a similar situation when he expressed an opinion on one of his party's helpers during the last election?

 

And your analogy that an Admiral wouldn't use similar language towards a guard on gate duty tells me that you don't know much about the Royal Navy.

[Tokyo-Saint]

I think he thought pleb was the softer of the words he used. He probably thought he was using a watered down insult like twit, or berk, or c*nt.

[Thedelldays]

He just knows his place. Deep down, he's scum from a Millbrook council estate, and everyone in authority is better and wiser than him, right, TDD?

 

Which is still way higher in the food chain than filth from liverpool

[Dimond Geezer]

I think he thought pleb was the softer of the words he used. He probably thought he was using a watered down insult like twit, or berk, or c*nt.

 

I always picture TDD as someone who doffs his cap & averts his eyes when someone whom he considers better than him walks past.

[Tokyo-Saint]

He's not dune!

 

 

 

 

is he?

[Dimond Geezer]

For me pleb isn't offensive, it was a word we used at school when taking the p!ss out of mates, as was trodlodyte.

 

However in this context is was clearly meant as an insult coming from someone who considers himself "elite" to someone he considers "less worthy". His denial of using the word demonstrates this.

Edited 25 September, 2012 by Dimond Geezer
spelling

[pap]

Which is still way higher in the food chain than filth from liverpool

 

Certainly. I'd imagine that even with your "yes sir, spit or swallow, sir?" slavish deference to your betters, you would be higher up the food chain than filth from Liverpool, or indeed, dirt from anywhere.

 

You may find your chart position dips when you begin to compare yourself with actual people.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Which is still way higher in the food chain than filth from liverpool

 

I've got no idea why you were not selected to be a mod. Have you figured it out yet captain?

[JPTCount]

it's not whether the word is offensive, it's how he said it, same applies with n*gger.

 

and I much prefer 'gategate'

[JPTCount]

and all theses analogies about being higher in the food chain, he's chief whip ffs. not Secretary of the state. they are not his subordinates.

 

on this logic the minister for transport should be shouting at nurses more often.

[Fuengirola Saint]

With respect, I think most of you are missing the point here. The issue is what using the word 'pleb' says about the person saying it, not any offence caused to the police officer ...who didn't say he was offended by it btw.

 

The reason why the media have focussed on the word 'pleb' in the phrase "you ****ing pleb", and not the generally more offensive word '****ing', is that it indicates that Mitchell still has the mindset and attitude of a spoilt public schoolboy -- he thinks he is above the rest of us , and we mere 'plebs' should recognise that he is more important, and that he is above the rules that apply to mere ordinary people. Bear in mind that most of the cabinet went to public school and are independently wealthy, and that they are continuously desperate to prove that they do NOT have this mindset , and you can see why this is news.

 

Add to that the implication that Mitchell has since lied about what he said, and he doesn't come out of this incident as the sort of person I want running my country for me

 

 

This! He is a chunt end off, he revells in his name Thrasher given to him by Tory MPs because he used to beat younger pupils at Rugby school, Total Scum, I'd have the idiot hanging from a lampost ;-) I can't believe the Tories on here defending him, I will say this only once, He thinks you are all plebs as well, to him you are a piece of s h i t on his shoe

[bridge too far]

and all theses analogies about being higher in the food chain, he's chief whip ffs. not Secretary of the state. they are not his subordinates.

 

on this logic the minister for transport should be shouting at nurses more often.

 

He's Chief Whip for the Tories. This means his job is to ensure there's discipline within the ranks. How the hell can he enforce discipline when he's not even capable of disciplining himself to behave sensibly.

[trousers]

[Dimond Geezer]

 

Didn't that guy assault Prescott, rather than apply the law/procedure?

[pap]

This! He is a chunt end off, he revells in his name Thrasher given to him by Tory MPs because he used to beat younger pupils at Rugby school, Total Scum, I'd have the idiot hanging from a lampost ;-) I can't believe the Tories on here defending him, I will say this only once, He thinks you are all plebs as well, to him you are a piece of s h i t on his shoe

 

This.

 

Deep down, I think they know they've voted in a load of sh!te. Ineffective leadership during crises, spent half their time in government stitching the Lib Dems and the other half stitching the plebs, all in furtherance of their mates on the boards of private health care companies etc. You'll have to forgive me for repetition, but they're a bandit government on a smash and grab.

 

Time and time again they've demonstrated that they don't give a f*ck about the plebs. Fortunately, a plebs vote is worth the same as anyone else's, and there are more of us. Expect "pleb" to be a buzzword during the 2015 election.

[Thedelldays]

I see the likes of pap have taken ownership of the word pleb....

[ottery st mary]

The Public schoolgirl idiot MP.... should have been arrested and placed in the drunk cell overnight with some of the regular customers..

 

That would have sorted the pleb out.

[hypochondriac]

FFS there are more important things to worry about. Ridiculous overreaction by the media.

[Fuengirola Saint]

 

Jesus Christ! Look at the state of the bloke, Don't you think he deserved it?

[Gambol2K9]

I had no idea what pleb actually means, i doubt most ppl do. Storm in a teacup.

[TopGun]

Are you offended by that word?

 

It depends who says it. If it comes from an public school pupil such as Mitchell, it is clearly with real intonations.

[Wes Tender]

Jesus Christ! Look at the state of the bloke, Don't you think he deserved it?

 

I agree. The arrogant multi-Jaguar owning Labour toff got everything he deserved.

[pap]

Excuse me for being a bit blase about this mountain out of a molehill situation, because I feel that not only are most of our elected politicians capable of such incidents at some time in their careers, regardless of which party they represent, or whatever their background or education was, but neither are the Police force totally and utterly lily-white. At least the electorate have the power to remove any politician they dislike.

 

I've seen you make this point a couple of times, Wes - but not really. Your Labour voter is getting bugger all in Kensington. Your Tory voter gets nothing in Knowsley. Even if the power of your mighty vote helps to dislocate a hated incumbent, you only get that opportunity on the election cycle.

 

If we had the right to recall politicians, you may have a point. As it currently goes, we just have to wait until our representatives commit enough visible malfeasance, intolerance or ignorance before they finally bow to public pressure and get out of Dodge. Recently, even that isn't enough. I refer the jury to the case of Jeremy Hunt.

[badgerx16]

And David Cameron, ex of Eton and Cambridge, doesn't know what the English translation of Magna Carta is. What on earth would the Chief Whip make of him ?

[Ken Tone]

And David Cameron, ex of Eton and Cambridge, doesn't know what the English translation of Magna Carta is. What on earth would the Chief Whip make of him ?

 

That he's just a ****ing patrician, who already knows his place ?

[Whitey Grandad]

[video=youtube;K2k1iRD2f-c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2k1iRD2f-c&feature=related

[pap]

[adrian lord]

There are nuances to all this depending on the social echelon of the protagonist:

 

"Pleb" is what upper middle class social climbers call common people/underclass.

 

"Chav" is what common people call common people/ underclass.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Perhaps the coppers outside Downing Street are Plebs.

 

Gordon certainly doesn't want to follow Obama's lead and shake their hands.

 

[pap]

Perhaps the coppers outside Downing Street are Plebs.

 

Gordon certainly doesn't want to follow Obama's lead and shake their hands.

 

Arf! This your defence, Lord D?

 

F**king plebby, if you ask me.

 

Do what your masters tell you and learn your place!

 

Brown was a nob though. No denying it.

[Whitey Grandad]

Arf! This your defence, Lord D?

 

F**king plebby, if you ask me.

 

Do what your masters tell you and learn your place!

 

Brown was a nob though. No denying it.

 

Did you mean knob, by any chance? Just checking, like.

[trousers]

@SkyNewsBreak: New CCTV footage of exchange between ex-Chief Whip Andrew Mitchell and Police officers at Downing St appears to show no angry confrontation

[CB Saint]

Reckon there could be quite a few people having to apologise to Andrew Mitchell if this turns out to be true.

[stu0x]

@SkyNewsBreak: New CCTV footage of exchange between ex-Chief Whip Andrew Mitchell and Police officers at Downing St appears to show no angry confrontation

What does an 'angry confrontation' look like on CCTV?

[trousers]

Reckon there could be quite a few people having to apologise to Andrew Mitchell if this turns out to be true.

 

I'm guessing the rush to apologise won't be quite up to the stampede levels of those jumping on the bandwagon to condemn him...

[um pahars]

What does an 'angry confrontation' look like on CCTV?

 

I thought exactly the same. Mitchell has admitted to swearing/being rude (would still like him to come clean on exactly what he said) and only ever thought it was a one way tirade, and there's nothing in that video to suggest otherwise.

 

The other witness thing sounds like someone is jumping on the bandwagon, but that doesn't change the fact that the altercation took place and Mitchell was swearing and sounding off.

 

It looks as though someone was trying to put the knife in, when in reality Mitchell didn't need any help!!

[Thedelldays]

someone was swearing and mouthing off.....and they say MPs are not like normal people

[Viking Warrior]

Well given my experience of police of late I wouldn't trust them ever again. there must be good ones out but most of them come arrogant mega argumentative and belligerent pushing folk to the limit causing people to lose the cool . I'm talking about your normal citizens not your. Drunken chavs.

[Turkish]

How utterly cringeworthy was the news tonight, so the big question, did he or did he not falsify a statement that said he said the word 'pleb'?

 

WTF has this country come to? It's embarassing.

[Thedelldays]

How utterly cringeworthy was the news tonight, so the big question, did he or did he not falsify a statement that said he said the word 'pleb'?

 

WTF has this country come to? It's embarassing.

soon, it will be wrong to call someone an idiot, or gay, or prat...

 

someone will get offended about something that has nothing to do with them

just look on this thread...how some are disgusted that the word was used......

embarrassing