Club Chairmen

[spyinthesky]

I have heard one or two little snippets about Nicola Cortese which I've not particularly liked and, of course previous chairmen here, including the illustrious Mr Lowe, have had their critics, but I guess we have generally been pretty lucky, particularly when you look round at some of the Chairmen/Owners we could have had.

 

Looking close to home, that nice Mr Mitchell (and his Russian investor and wife) at Bournemouth and the various ne'er do wells at Fratton Park!!!!!!

 

We should thank our collective lucky stars but perhaps you end up getting what you deserve.

[Turkish]

I'd prefer Ken Bates to be honest. Good old fashion English chairman who knows how to treat the fans properly.

[Crazy Diamond]

I'd prefer Ken Bates to be honest. Good old fashion English chairman who knows how to treat the fans properly.

 

And let's be honest, Ken has a better sense of fashion than our Nicola. Those glasses never get old.

[Frank's cousin]

I'd prefer Ken Bates to be honest. Good old fashion English chairman who knows how to treat the fans properly.

 

Read Tom Bower's book, he gets more than one chapter just like Redknapp:scared:

[Saintandy666]

I'd much rather have Cortese running the football club with a sound business mind. Fans think with their hearts and not with their minds. It's too easy for football clubs to not progress properly or be run into the ground because fans are too powerful or run the club. I'd rather have Cortese over say Mike Ashley.

[The Kraken]

I'd much rather have Cortese running the football club with a sound business mind. Fans think with their hearts and not with their minds. It's too easy for football clubs to not progress properly or be run into the ground because fans are too powerful or run the club. I'd rather have Cortese over say Mike Ashley.

 

Why? Mike Ashley is a multi-millionaire who presides over a multinational, extremely successful company. His side also finished last season in a European qualification spot and are working on wiping out the extreme debts of past mis-management.

 

Mike Ashley may be an idiot but his business record speaks for itself.

[Colinjb]

I'd rather have Cortese over say Mike Ashley.

 

To be fair to Mike Ashley, he has put in a small fortune into Newcastle, prevented them going into administration and has succesfully turned them into one of the best structured clubs in the Premier League. One of the better owners in the division, not that the Geordie idiots would ever admit it.

 

Much better a Mike Ashley then self interested gready sods like Geoffrey Robinson (Ex Coventry).

[Turkish]

I'd much rather have Cortese running the football club with a sound business mind. Fans think with their hearts and not with their minds. It's too easy for football clubs to not progress properly or be run into the ground because fans are too powerful or run the club. I'd rather have Cortese over say Mike Ashley.

 

Are you for or against a fan on the board Andy?

[Dig Dig]

I'd much rather have Cortese running the football club with a sound business mind. Fans think with their hearts and not with their minds. It's too easy for football clubs to not progress properly or be run into the ground because fans are too powerful or run the club. I'd rather have Cortese over say Mike Ashley.

 

So you think that Mike Ashley lets the fans "run the club into the ground"? I guess you're right, just look at how the fans made Ashley change the name of the stadium for corporate sponsorship opportunities

[Turkish]

And let's be honest, Ken has a better sense of fashion than our Nicola. Those glasses never get old.

 

True style is timeless Mr D, as Ken proves.

[Saintandy666]

Are you for or against a fan on the board Andy?

 

Against. What would be the point of having a compulsory fan on the board? Sure, if they are good enough... but otherwise it's just a token gesture and they are pretty much just a viewer.

[Turkish]

Against. What would be the point of having a compulsory fan on the board? Sure, if they are good enough... but otherwise it's just a token gesture and they are pretty much just a viewer.

 

Um Pahars, over to you......

[Saintandy666]

I think Cortese's plan is more sustainable than a lot of other clubs. I think we are one of the few clubs with rich backers who if the rich backers decided to leave would be financially sound.

[Turkish]

I think Cortese's plan is more sustainable than a lot of other clubs. I think we are one of the few clubs with rich backers who if the rich backers decided to leave would be financially sound.

 

What plans do other clubs have Andy?

[Saintandy666]

What plans do other clubs have Andy?

 

One based on investing **** loads of money all the time and writing off debts each year. Do you seriously think Chelsea could survive if Abramovich left tomorrow(lost over £600m since he came in and still losing nearly £70m a year)? Or Man City if Sheik Mansour left tomorrow? If the Liebherr's left tomorrow, we'd be just fine... debt free and operating within our limits.

[Turkish]

One based on investing **** loads of money all the time and writing off debts each year. Do you seriously think Chelsea could survive if Abramovich left tomorrow(lost over £600m since he came in and still losing nearly £70m a year)? Or Man City if Sheik Mansour left tomorrow? If the Liebherr's left tomorrow, we'd be just fine... debt free and operating within our limits.

 

So you think if the Liebherrs packed up thier bags and went tomorrow we'd be debt free after spending £30m on transfers + wages in the last 3 months?

[Saintandy666]

So you think if the Liebherrs packed up thier bags and went tomorrow we'd be debt free after spending £30m on transfers + wages in the last 3 months?

 

We are debt free. The money the Liebherrs have invested in the club has been converted into shares(that's as I understood it anyways). And £30m is within the extra amount of cash we are meant to get each season from being in this league.

[Turkish]

We are debt free. The money the Liebherrs have invested in the club has been converted into shares(that's as I understood it anyways). And £30m is within the extra amount of cash we are meant to get each season from being in this league.

 

The money the Liebherrs wrote off was before the big spending in the summer. Ramirez, Mayuka, Rodriguez and cos wages won't be low either. The PL don't give us a big cheque for £60m at the start of every season you know young Andy. Why didn't Reading just go and spend the same amount?

[The Kraken]

The money the Liebherrs wrote off was before the big spending in the summer. Ramirez, Mayuka, Rodriguez and cos wages won't be low either. The PL don't give us a big cheque for £60m at the start of every season you know young Andy. Why didn't Reading just go and spend the same amount?

 

The debt write-off was also before the training ground investment, so we'll have to wait and see what happens with that debt when the latest accounts are published.

[Saintandy666]

The money the Liebherrs wrote off was before the big spending in the summer. Ramirez, Mayuka, Rodriguez and cos wages won't be low either. The PL don't give us a big cheque for £60m at the start of every season you know young Andy. Why didn't Reading just go and spend the same amount?

 

Well, I know that... but the point is the supposed extra £60m is going to come whether or not the Liebherr's are here or not.

[Turkish]

Well, I know that... but the point is the supposed extra £60m is going to come whether or not the Liebherr's are here or not.

 

And we've probably spent all of it already what with the training ground, transfers and wages we are paying out.

[Saintandy666]

And we've probably spent all of it already what with the training ground, transfers and wages we are paying out.

 

Even if our outgoings match our income as you are saying, we'd still be debt free. Therefore, under your own argument, if Liebherr's left tomorrow, we'd be fine. We are not reliant on them for our existence anymore, expansion perhaps, but not existance. Chelsea however...

[Turkish]

Even if our outgoings match our income as you are saying, we'd still be debt free. Therefore, under your own argument, if Liebherr's left tomorrow, we'd be fine.

 

THey haven't done since the Liebherrs arrived,why do you think they are now when we are 7th biggest spenders in Europe, most of those have champions league money too?

[Saintandy666]

THey haven't done since the Liebherrs arrived,why do you think they are now when we are 7th biggest spenders in Europe, most of those have champions league money too?

 

Well, I know that, but Cortese wanted us to be self-sufficient in the Prem. And the extra income and no debt interest should help us to be that. Why are you arguing against this?!

 

Ok, we are riddled with massive debts. If the Liebherr's sold us tomorrow, we'd be bankrupt by Christmas. Happy?

[Turkish]

Well, I know that, but Cortese wanted us to be self-sufficient in the Prem. Why are you arguing against this?!

 

Ok, we are riddled with massive debts. If the Liebherr's sold us tomorrow, we'd be bankrupt by Christmas. Happy?

 

I'm not arguing against it Young Andy, I'm merely pointing out that that we have been dependant on wealthy owners and writing off debt as well to get to where we are and will continue to for a few years yet I'd imagine. The very thing you were saying was the wrong course of action. Whilst some, like yourself, blindly trot out the mantra that we have no debt and are superbly run, when the fact of the matter is we are dependant on our owners right now and have recorded large losses every year since Cortese has been here.

[CB Fry]

I'm not arguing against it Young Andy, I'm merely pointing out that that we have been dependant on wealthy owners and writing off debt as well to get to where we are and will continue to for a few years yet I'd imagine. The very thing you were saying was the wrong course of action. Whilst some, like yourself, blindly trot out the mantra that we have no debt and are superbly run, when the fact of the matter is we are dependant on our owners right now and have recorded large losses every year since Cortese has been here.

 

 

 

Correct. We are not being run in a self sufficient way right now, not by a long chalk.

 

I'd compare it to post-Burley. I genuinely thought the cash he/Wilde spent at the time was parachute dosh/Walcott/Crouch/etc revenue and we could afford our spending. Turns out we couldn't.

 

Our spending right now exceeds revenue - as it has done all post-takeover seasons. And although debt has been rolled up into the club, thats not quite the same as free money.

 

But that's for another day.

 

The important thing is we're not some miracle club balancing the books. Far, far from it.

[Saintandy666]

I'm not arguing against it Young Andy, I'm merely pointing out that that we have been dependant on wealthy owners and writing off debt as well to get to where we are and will continue to for a few years yet I'd imagine. The very thing you were saying was the wrong course of action. Whilst some, like yourself, blindly trot out the mantra that we have no debt and are superbly run, when the fact of the matter is we are dependant on our owners right now and have recorded large losses every year since Cortese has been here.

 

You are utterly correct of course that up to now we've relied on that, and that in the future due to further expansion we will continue to rely on that. I wasn't claiming we could continue with our expansion plans if the Liebherr's left, merely that we wouldn't go bankrupt.

 

You are correct that we've had losses every year, but I was trying to say that these should be sorted out with the extra income we get from being in this league. Assuming of course our expenditure doesn't exceed that extra cash. Cortese's plan is for self sufficiency, and now we are in the premier league, we are in a place where that is deliverable. We'll see where we are exactly on that plan when this years finances are revealed.

[Turkish]

You are utterly correct of course that up to now we've relied on that, and that in the future due to further expansion we will continue to rely on that. I wasn't claiming we could continue with our expansion plans if the Liebherr's left, merely that we wouldn't go bankrupt.

 

You are correct that we've had losses every year, but I was trying to say that these should be sorted out with the extra income we get from being in this league. Assuming of course our expenditure doesn't exceed that extra cash. Cortese's plan is for self sufficiency, and now we are in the premier league, we are in a place where that is deliverable. We'll see where we are exactly on that plan when this years finances are revealed.

 

I would suggest it will be several years yet before we are anywhere near self sufficient, especially if Cortese wants to fulfill his vision and ambitions that he's been talking about. The only way this will happen is by following the model that you are so opposed to.

[The Kraken]

I would suggest it will be several years yet before we are anywhere near self sufficient, especially if Cortese wants to fulfill his vision and ambitions that he's been talking about. The only way this will happen is by following the model that you are so opposed to.

 

If Cortese wants to achieve his dream of Champions League qualification I'd say we'll never be self-sufficient.

[Saintandy666]

I would suggest it will be several years yet before we are anywhere near self sufficient, especially if Cortese wants to fulfill his vision and ambitions that he's been talking about. The only way this will happen is by following the model that you are so opposed to.

 

You're right on that, but I acknowledged this when I said expansion. And the model I was opposed to wasn't the careful, gradual well planned expansion of Cortese. His plan makes sure that at any point if the Liebherr's left we wouldn't be ****ed... Chelsea for example however, are completely reliant on Abromovichs millions, even now when he has been there for yonks. His plan seems to just be chuck loads of money at the club at once for expensive transfers. This isn't Cortese's style as we have found out by the number of collapsed transfers when other clubs got greedy. But the Liebherr's and Abromovich are different kinds of businessmen.

[Saintandy666]

If Cortese wants to achieve his dream of Champions League qualification I'd say we'll never be self-sufficient.

 

This is probably true. Manchester United could probably manage it because they are an international brand, but very few others.

[Turkish]

Correct. We are not being run in a self sufficient way right now, not by a long chalk.

 

I'd compare it to post-Burley. I genuinely thought the cash he/Wilde spent at the time was parachute dosh/Walcott/Crouch/etc revenue and we could afford our spending. Turns out we couldn't.

 

Our spending right now exceeds revenue - as it has done all post-takeover seasons. And although debt has been rolled up into the club, thats not quite the same as free money.

 

But that's for another day.

 

The important thing is we're not some miracle club balancing the books. Far, far from it.

 

I agree with you on that. I thought that that money in the 'Saints go Wilde' era had come in from income via the various channels. Shows how screwed the clubs finances were when you think the money from Crouch, Walcott, Phillips, etc must have come to nearly £20m and we had to pawn the family silver for one sh*t or bust crack at promotion.

[Turkish]

You're right on that, but I acknowledged this when I said expansion. And the model I was opposed to wasn't the careful, gradual well planned expansion of Cortese. His plan makes sure that at any point if the Liebherr's left we wouldn't be ****ed... Chelsea for example however, are completely reliant on Abromovichs millions, even now when he has been there for yonks. His plan seems to just be chuck loads of money at the club at once for expensive transfers. This isn't Cortese's style as we have found out by the number of collapsed transfers when other clubs got greedy. But the Liebherr's and Abromovich are different kinds of businessmen.

 

Challenging for Europe in 3 years sounds doesn't sound like careful, gradual, well planned progress to me young Andy. Sounds like rapid progress which will be needed to be significantly funded somehow.

[Saintandy666]

Challenging for Europe in 3 years sounds doesn't sound like careful, gradual, well planned progress to me young Andy. Sounds like rapid progress which will be needed to be significantly funded somehow.

 

I dunno, plenty of clubs have managed to challenge for Europe in that time. Where did Cortese say 3 years? We are talking about 7th place right... that isn't TOO hard. 4th place is impossible to a club of our size. And yes, our expansion will need to be significantly funded by Premier League money plus a hefty amount of Liebherr money. But I already acknowledged that. What I was arguing is that we would be able to survive as a club with the Liebherr's whereas Chelsea could not survive without Abramovich, not in their current form.

[Turkish]

I dunno, plenty of clubs have managed to challenge for Europe in that time. Where did Cortese say 3 years? We are talking about 7th place right... that isn't TOO hard. 4th place is impossible to a club of our size. And yes, our expansion will need to be significantly funded by Premier League money plus a hefty amount of Liebherr money. But I already acknowledged that. What I was arguing is that we would be able to survive as a club with the Liebherr's whereas Chelsea could not survive without Abramovich, not in their current form.

 

He told Buttner we wanted to challenge Man City. That suggest champions league football. 4th minimum, not 7th. Yes we could survive if we didn't have the Liebherrs money, but we wouldn't be where we are now. They've written off significant debt along the way, something you don't agree with.

[Mustapha Fag]

i dont know

 

this new Turkish v Andy comedy show is pretty boring

 

time to change thread find something worth viewing

[Saintandy666]

He told Buttner we wanted to challenge Man City. That suggest champions league football. 4th minimum, not 7th. Yes we could survive if we didn't have the Liebherrs money, but we wouldn't be where we are now. They've written off significant debt along the way, something you don't agree with.

 

Thankyou, that's all I've been saying. And I have made a distinction between the Liebherrs(was it £34m??? Something around there) investment and Abramovich's investments already!

[Saintandy666]

i dont know

 

this new Turkish v Andy comedy show is pretty boring

 

time to change thread find something worth viewing

 

How dare we make posts on the subject of the thread on an internet forum!

[Turkish]

Thankyou, that's all I've been saying. And I have made a distinction between the Liebherrs(was it £34m??? Something around there) investment and Abramovich's investments already!

 

Well Chelsea & Man City could survive, if our Owners hadn't agreed to write off our debt then it'd be a different story wouldn't it young Andy. We are doing the same as them, just on a smaller scale, are we not?

[CB Fry]

What is the definition of "survive" now? Does SaintAndy666 think Chelsea are going to disappear down a black hole leaving only a pile of dust if Abrambovic walked away?

 

If we can "survive" without the Liebherrs, Chelsea could "survive" without the Russians.

 

I mean, back in 1984 Chelsea only got 13,000 through the turnstyles.They'd just go back to that.

[Saintandy666]

What is the definition of "survive" now? Does SaintAndy666 think Chelsea are going to disappear down a black hole leaving only a pile of dust if Abrambovic walked away?

 

If we can "survive" without the Liebherrs, Chelsea could "survive" without the Russians.

 

I mean, back in 1984 Chelsea only got 13,000 through the turnstyles.They'd just go back to that.

 

Not with their current set up! They are losing £70m a year. That would take a massive turnaround to cut that down to nothing quick enough.

[Saintandy666]

Well Chelsea & Man City could survive, if our Owners hadn't agreed to write off our debt then it'd be a different story wouldn't it young Andy. We are doing the same as them, just on a smaller scale, are we not?

 

Yep, under the old set up, we weren't sustainable in the lower leagues. Though tbh, who is sustainable in the lower leagues?!

[Turkish]

Yep, under the old set up, we weren't sustainable in the lower leagues. Though tbh, who is sustainable in the lower leagues?!

 

What we were doing under this set up wasn't sustainable without backing and writing off debt, Something you dont want!

[Saintandy666]

What we were doing under this set up wasn't sustainable without backing and writing off debt, Something you dont want!

 

Not at all. That isn't what I have said at all, as long as it is part of a sustainable, gradual and sensible plan. That's the key, Abramovich doesn't appear to have that at all.

[Turkish]

Not at all. That isn't what I have said at all, as long as it is part of a sustainable, gradual and sensible plan. That's the key, Abramovich doesn't appear to have that at all.

 

How do you know? And why is Corteses method better than Ashleys, would you said you wouldnt want?

[Saintandy666]

How do you know? And why is Corteses method better than Ashleys, would you said you wouldnt want?

 

 

Cortese's method is way better than the shove a few hundred million at it on players method of Abramovich and co. It's unsustainable and leaves teams like Chelsea with staggering losses every year.

[Turkish]

Cortese's method is way better than the shove a few hundred million at it on players method of Abramovich and co. It's unsustainable and leaves teams like Chelsea with staggering losses every year.

 

So Corteses method left us with losses of £7m with a turnover of £12m. Chelsea had losses of £70m (you claim) with a turnover of £200m+. They also have redeveloped their training ground and invested Heavily in their academy.I'm struggling to see what the differences are young Andy.

[Saintandy666]

So Corteses method left us with losses of £7m with a turnover of £12m. Chelsea had losses of £70m (you claim) with a turnover of £200m+. They also have redeveloped their training ground and invested Heavily in their academy.I'm struggling to see what the differences are young Andy.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16824257 - c. each year £70m

 

And it's ridiculous to compare turnover and loss figures from us in League 1/Championship to Chelsea in the Premiership.

 

If our figures are anywhere near as bad as Chelsea's in the next few years(assuming we manage to stay up which is a big if), I will happily say you are right and worship the floor you walk on.

[Saintandy666]

I'm getting bored of this argument now, I feel we're going round in circles. I think all the points have been covered on both sides and we both are obviously not going to change our minds on whether our strategy is like Chelsea's or not. So let's just agree to disagree.

[Turkish]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16824257 - c. each year £70m

 

And it's ridiculous to compare turnover and loss figures from us in League 1/Championship to Chelsea in the Premiership.

 

If our figures are anywhere near as bad as Chelsea's in the next few years(assuming we manage to stay up which is a big if), I will happily say you are right and worship the floor you walk on.

 

As a percentage of income they are worse!