Gemmel Posted 23 September, 2012 Share Posted 23 September, 2012 (Feel free to delete Lounge post - not sure whether that was me or mods) Yesterday at the Alfred, was as bizarre policing as I have seen. I have travelled home and away for 30 years without too many incidents, but the last four or five times I have seen any trouble at St Mary's, I personally believe the police are to blame for at least two of them. It's a strange theory, that mosty law abiding citizens would dismiss out of hand, but having seen the dynamics of policing football first hand so many times, (You could state the outcome twenty minutes before it happens), it's not something I can keep passing off as"bad luck". Yesterday at the Alfred, there were a lot of Villa fans all mingled in wtih Saints fans..... But not a hint of trouble. Then the police turned up... I don't know if they were caught unwares that Villa fans would be at one place in numbers, but they didn't like it and a few clicks on the radio and suddenly they were mob handed. Now the trick here is to guage the atmosphere and "Feel" whether there is trouble (I am not quite sure how to explain that, other than the fact that I can tell almost instantly if the atmosphere is hostile or if there is potential to kick off) or to stay or go. Well after they ushered everyone (That had been there for an hour or so without issue) back on to the pavement etc, it ended up with a group of Villa fans together and the rest Saints - Previously everyone had mingled without issue and the whole dynamics changed. It was now far more confrontational and became "Them and Us". The police then proceded to form a ring around the front of the pub and what appeared to be the main man (Copper) with orange lapels, then bought out the cam corder.- Just to add some extra tension . Now, I am sure they will cite the fact there was no trouble or arrests as vindication, but that really doesn't tell the story. There was never going to be any trouble and the only chance of that happening was AFTER the police got involved and the reality is, there hasn't been ever. So why the police thought they needed to "Spice" things up a bit, I have no idea, but i got the feeling they were willing it on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewell Posted 23 September, 2012 Share Posted 23 September, 2012 I saw this on the BBC the other day and it seems West Midlands Police have adopted a different approach to policing football and it seems to be working. As you say some of the time you feel the Police are almost willing it to kick off to justify them being there. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19673995 It will be interesting to see if Hampshire Police adopt a similar approach although this approach would kill a lot of their guaranteed overtime so who knows. I am sure the club would want lower police bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 September, 2012 Share Posted 23 September, 2012 I can confirm not a single copper asked me how I was yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 23 September, 2012 Share Posted 23 September, 2012 I can confirm not a single copper asked me how I was yesterday. It's because you so happy clappy and a foam finger waving sort of fan. You won't be anything other than "great" on matchday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 23 September, 2012 Share Posted 23 September, 2012 I can confirm not a single copper asked me how I was yesterday. A fan on the board would have got you one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 23 September, 2012 Share Posted 23 September, 2012 The stewards in the ground also appear to be on an even bigger power trip this season now we're back in the "big time". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILLY Posted 23 September, 2012 Share Posted 23 September, 2012 (Feel free to delete Lounge post - not sure whether that was me or mods) Yesterday at the Alfred, was as bizarre policing as I have seen. I have travelled home and away for 30 years without too many incidents, but the last four or five times I have seen any trouble at St Mary's, I personally believe the police are to blame for at least two of them. It's a strange theory, that mosty law abiding citizens would dismiss out of hand, but having seen the dynamics of policing football first hand so many times, (You could state the outcome twenty minutes before it happens), it's not something I can keep passing off as"bad luck". Yesterday at the Alfred, there were a lot of Villa fans all mingled in wtih Saints fans..... But not a hint of trouble. Then the police turned up... I don't know if they were caught unwares that Villa fans would be at one place in numbers, but they didn't like it and a few clicks on the radio and suddenly they were mob handed. Now the trick here is to guage the atmosphere and "Feel" whether there is trouble (I am not quite sure how to explain that, other than the fact that I can tell almost instantly if the atmosphere is hostile or if there is potential to kick off) or to stay or go. Well after they ushered everyone (That had been there for an hour or so without issue) back on to the pavement etc, it ended up with a group of Villa fans together and the rest Saints - Previously everyone had mingled without issue and the whole dynamics changed. It was now far more confrontational and became "Them and Us". The police then proceded to form a ring around the front of the pub and what appeared to be the main man (Copper) with orange lapels, then bought out the cam corder.- Just to add some extra tension . Now, I am sure they will cite the fact there was no trouble or arrests as vindication, but that really doesn't tell the story. There was never going to be any trouble and the only chance of that happening was AFTER the police got involved and the reality is, there hasn't been ever. So why the police thought they needed to "Spice" things up a bit, I have no idea, but i got the feeling they were willing it on Spot on. I was there chatting to the villa fans and they were fine. I thought it was a little strange though as I though it was home fans only in the Kind A? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 23 September, 2012 Share Posted 23 September, 2012 By the way, what was Mr. Fat Bastard ejected for yesterday? I did notice that one steward was actually on the pitch after the equaliser. Bit extreme... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 23 September, 2012 Share Posted 23 September, 2012 The stewards in the ground also appear to be on an even bigger power trip this season now we're back in the "big time". I did hear from a mate that was sat right where clyne celebrated his goal that one of the stewards was heavy handed with clyne and started shouting abuse at him for celebrating with the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didcot Saint Posted 23 September, 2012 Share Posted 23 September, 2012 I did hear from a mate that was sat right where clyne celebrated his goal that one of the stewards was heavy handed with clyne and started shouting abuse at him for celebrating with the fans. On MOTD one of the stewards called Clyne a tw.t, you can clearly see him say it. The only tw.t in the ground was you Mr Steward, what's wrong with one of our players celebrating a great goal with our own fans to put us 2-1 up. This is a passionate game so if you don't agree with it then you best f off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted 23 September, 2012 Share Posted 23 September, 2012 By the way, what was Mr. Fat Bastard ejected for yesterday? Don't know why, but he was let back in after the stewards admitted making a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSaint Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 On MOTD one of the stewards called Clyne a tw.t, you can clearly see him say it. The only tw.t in the ground was you Mr Steward, what's wrong with one of our players celebrating a great goal with our own fans to put us 2-1 up. This is a passionate game so if you don't agree with it then you best f off. I noticed that too...what a grumpy old bastard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 On MOTD one of the stewards called Clyne a tw.t, you can clearly see him say it. The only tw.t in the ground was you Mr Steward, what's wrong with one of our players celebrating a great goal with our own fans to put us 2-1 up. This is a passionate game so if you don't agree with it then you best f off. Saw that too. Hopefully cortese also saw it and we will not see that steward at the ground in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 No idea about the Alfred, maybe the police stirred them up? But by the time I got to the ground ...shocking traffic on the A34 and M3 .... there were far more 'loose' groups of away fans walking along Belvedere Road than usual, and some were definitely looking for trouble, with no noticeable police presence. Saw one throw his drink across the road at a harmless family group of Saints fans for example. Assuming the 'fat bastard' was the one I saw being led along in front on the Northam, he had got a bit carried away celebrating their goal. Ran down to the front but didn't actually go onto the pitch, so it was a bit harsh to eject him. Clyne -- Again no idea about the steward, but IMO he was bloody silly to get himself booked for celebrating. If he'd got himself sent off for a relatively innocuous second booking after that ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Bald_Si Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 (Feel free to delete Lounge post - not sure whether that was me or mods) Yesterday at the Alfred, was as bizarre policing as I have seen. I have travelled home and away for 30 years without too many incidents, but the last four or five times I have seen any trouble at St Mary's, I personally believe the police are to blame for at least two of them. It's a strange theory, that mosty law abiding citizens would dismiss out of hand, but having seen the dynamics of policing football first hand so many times, (You could state the outcome twenty minutes before it happens), it's not something I can keep passing off as"bad luck". Yesterday at the Alfred, there were a lot of Villa fans all mingled in wtih Saints fans..... But not a hint of trouble. Then the police turned up... I don't know if they were caught unwares that Villa fans would be at one place in numbers, but they didn't like it and a few clicks on the radio and suddenly they were mob handed. Now the trick here is to guage the atmosphere and "Feel" whether there is trouble (I am not quite sure how to explain that, other than the fact that I can tell almost instantly if the atmosphere is hostile or if there is potential to kick off) or to stay or go. Well after they ushered everyone (That had been there for an hour or so without issue) back on to the pavement etc, it ended up with a group of Villa fans together and the rest Saints - Previously everyone had mingled without issue and the whole dynamics changed. It was now far more confrontational and became "Them and Us". The police then proceded to form a ring around the front of the pub and what appeared to be the main man (Copper) with orange lapels, then bought out the cam corder.- Just to add some extra tension . Now, I am sure they will cite the fact there was no trouble or arrests as vindication, but that really doesn't tell the story. There was never going to be any trouble and the only chance of that happening was AFTER the police got involved and the reality is, there hasn't been ever. So why the police thought they needed to "Spice" things up a bit, I have no idea, but i got the feeling they were willing it on Super post. I was at the Alfred too and initially, was wondering what was going on. But you're right, all was fine, and then it wasn't. I quite enjoy talking to away fans in the pub, by and large to get their perspective on our club, and their prospects for the game and season. Generally, all good banter. Had absolutely no problem with the Villa fans being there. In fact, never had any problem with any set of fans when they've been let into the Alfred. Best ever set of away fans in there was Claus Lundekvam's testimonial when Celtic were in town. They all piled in there, playing bag pipes, all ****ed as farts, but no trouble at all and a superb laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 Have to say I don't understand the mentality. Everyone nice and happy, the police turn up, lets get angry about it and have a fight. WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 (edited) Certainly seemed to be a ridiculously large police presence and a stand off "duelling chants" type situation outside the Alfred when I ambled past at around 2:15pm. Much more lairy than it usually is when there are away fans there. (As opposed to "much more lairy with away fans there than when they're not" which isn't what I'm saying). Even Varsity London Rd wasn't letting people in fluorescent green t-shirts in, though I assumed this was on the grounds of taste. Edited 24 September, 2012 by The9 clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 Have to say I don't understand the mentality. Everyone nice and happy, the police turn up, lets get angry about it and have a fight. WTF? You have to remember that some of the smaller-minded are waiting for an excuse to have a go at the police at the best of times, their mere presence is something they can't cope with, and they get all "help, I'm being oppressed" because they can't cope with the idea that they personally are not being accused of anything... I've always assumed this is because they're up to a load of stuff that makes them feel guilty, but who knows ? Heavy-handed policing certainly wouldn't help the matter, not that it sounds like there was any kind of problem in the first place. West Midlands Police have always been pretty heavy-handed at football policing to my recollection, except in that bit outside Molineux where they all disappear immediately when the shutters come down - but was it the spotters at the Alfred on Saturday ? The police presence generally was much higher than we've been used to for Saints matches in recent years and they may need a bit of practise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 I thought the Old Bill were absolutely brilliant.... I personally have a lot of time for the vast majority of Coppers and they do a brilliant job... Sometimes management make some strange decisions ... Support your local Old Bill:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSixty Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 Group of Villa fans kicked off in Eastleigh in the evening. Mongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 I found the doormen at the Alfred a bit strange as well, maybe it was under police orders but no common sense at all. After the game I go in there for one with my 13 year old. Both of us had Saints shirts on and yet the doormen wanted to see our tickets to prove we were home supporters. I'm sure a middle aged Villa supporter is going to come down, change into a Saints shirt from 2 years ago, get his nipper to change into this seasons Saints shirt, just to kick off in the pub afterwards. To top it all the Saints ale in there is shiete as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 Don't know why, but he was let back in after the stewards admitted making a mistake. Is that right? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 Group of Villa fans kicked off in Eastleigh in the evening. Mongs. £2.74 worth of damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 £2.74 worth of damage? No -- they only smashed up half the town! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 I found the doormen at the Alfred a bit strange as well, maybe it was under police orders but no common sense at all. After the game I go in there for one with my 13 year old. Both of us had Saints shirts on and yet the doormen wanted to see our tickets to prove we were home supporters. I'm sure a middle aged Villa supporter is going to come down, change into a Saints shirt from 2 years ago, get his nipper to change into this seasons Saints shirt, just to kick off in the pub afterwards. To top it all the Saints ale in there is shiete as well. I think they must have been, the place i often go straight after matches asked for tickets for the first time since i've been going there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 Group of Villa fans kicked off in Eastleigh in the evening. Mongs. Did they get off the train thinking it was sh!t enough to be home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 Did anyone have the police ask them how they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 I thought the Old Bill were absolutely brilliant.... I personally have a lot of time for the vast majority of Coppers and they do a brilliant job... Sometimes management make some strange decisions ... Support your local Old Bill:p Sometimes the are OK, but sometimes they act like plebs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 Sometimes the are OK, but sometimes they act like plebs. Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 Did anyone have the police ask them how they are? One PC asked me how I was, before the game. I was down at the ground rattling a bucket for the Saints Foundation at the time though, so I doubt they'll be compiling any dossiers on me for that. You never know, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 24 September, 2012 Share Posted 24 September, 2012 I love those boyzz in uniform:rolleyes: Sorry I love those Ladies in uniform.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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