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The Premiership now and then


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Have you noticed the massive difference in quality of football since we last played in the Premiership, it seems to be on a different level now.

No middle of the road teams now.

The passing and movement off the ball is so much quicker, teams will change systems to suit three, four times during a match, substitutes are more so part of the team than before.

There is more passing than ever before, the full backs don't just hump it up the wing anymore, the goalkeeper will never hoof a ball up to the forwards.

As soon as you lose possession of the ball you will get punished, as we all know!

The finishing is lethal at this level, RVP, Man United, dare I say Wigan at home?

We must be ruthless at every opportunity. We won't be ruthless enough by playing SRL on his own with no support.

A real learning curve.

We'll get there, takes time, but we need to get behind Southampton Football Club at this tough time, so easy to be critical when times are tough, we lapped up the last two seasons when we were on a roll and enjoyed every minute, we all now need to keep together, when the tough gets going, the tough will bring out the toughness in our support.

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Regardless of what many think on here.. The prem is a Brilliant league..... Not average but brilliant.... Sure it will have some poor teams in it... That is the nature of any league.....

 

From the year we got relegated, etc the prem has been represented in the champions league final evry year bar 1

 

And those teams that dominate the later stages of the European cup have to fight for their 3 points nearly every week in the domestic league

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Having watched a few prior games in the run up to this year, its not much different. The finishing has always been lethal (James Beattie in his prime....), losing possession will always get you punished (Everton at Home, 2005) but I grant you the footballing styles seem to be getting more cultured, on the most part of what we have seen so far..... from 3 champions league teams and one of the most attractive footballing sides in the division.

 

The main adjustment is for me comparing our immediate opposition to teams like Coventry, Middlesbrough and Derby; teams who will let you play. If you are able to stop the premiership teams getting into their rhythm you can beat them.... the pressing game works against the more technically able sides, but you need to be 100% relentless and spot on in that approach for 90 minutes, no less. Teams will be attacking us in that way.

 

The step up is high, I still believe we are capable of it.

Edited by Colinjb
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We read lots of clueless nonsense during the summer about how it was an average league, our players would get more time on the ballso would all be fine, half our squad was good enough for England and so on. The fact of the matter is the premier league is still one of the best leagues in the world, every team has top quality players and a number of international playersin their squad. Even our squad, bottom of the league without a point had 5 players on international duty last week.

 

The players get more time on the ball comment was a classic though, yeah of course the best defenders in the world stand off attackers and give them space. :lol:

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We read lots of clueless nonsense during the summer about how it was an average league, our players would get more time on the ballso would all be fine, half our squad was good enough for England and so on. The fact of the matter is the premier league is still one of the best leagues in the world, every team has top quality players and a number of international playersin their squad. Even our squad, bottom of the league without a point had 5 players on international duty last week.

 

The players get more time on the ball comment was a classic though, yeah of course the best defenders in the world stand off attackers and give them space. :lol:

 

Yep

 

Every single team has at least one player that could destroy you if you mess uo

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We read lots of clueless nonsense during the summer about how it was an average league, our players would get more time on the ballso would all be fine, half our squad was good enough for England and so on. The fact of the matter is the premier league is still one of the best leagues in the world, every team has top quality players and a number of international playersin their squad. Even our squad, bottom of the league without a point had 5 players on international duty last week.

 

The players get more time on the ball comment was a classic though, yeah of course the best defenders in the world stand off attackers and give them space. :lol:

 

Not sure how you'd explain Lambert against Man U then ?

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Have you noticed the massive difference in quality of football since we last played in the Premiership, it seems to be on a different level now.

No middle of the road teams now.

The passing and movement off the ball is so much quicker, teams will change systems to suit three, four times during a match, substitutes are more so part of the team than before.

There is more passing than ever before, the full backs don't just hump it up the wing anymore, the goalkeeper will never hoof a ball up to the forwards.

As soon as you lose possession of the ball you will get punished, as we all know!

The finishing is lethal at this level, RVP, Man United, dare I say Wigan at home?

 

We must be ruthless at every opportunity. We won't be ruthless enough by playing SRL on his own with no support.

A real learning curve.

We'll get there, takes time, but we need to get behind Southampton Football Club at this tough time, so easy to be critical when times are tough, we lapped up the last two seasons when we were on a roll and enjoyed every minute, we all now need to keep together, when the tough gets going, the tough will bring out the toughness in our support.

 

Could you imagine the likes of Dodd, Benali or Beasent in the PL now....

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Looked to me like Lambert dominated them and for the first 60 minutes was almost bullying Vidic. They certainly weren't standing off him.

 

The9 is on some desperate charge to denigrate RL7; I'm not sure why yet, but it seems to be his "thing". I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure myself what point he's trying to prove; other than that Rickie won't cut it in the PL.

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The9 is on some desperate charge to denigrate RL7; I'm not sure why yet, but it seems to be his "thing".

 

Not at all. I'm just not as reluctant to criticise him as some others because I'm judging him by Prem standards not Championship ones. It's not me spouting gash like "Lallana should be dropped", like Lambert's #1 fan, is it ?

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And the difference against Vermaelen and Mertesacker ?

 

Lambert got no service against Arsenal. Funnily enough he also played well in a good team performance against City as well. It's obviously because kompany and Vidic stood off him and let him play and Vermaelen didn't.

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Not at all. I'm just not as reluctant to criticise him as some others because I'm judging him by Prem standards not Championship ones. It's not me spouting gash like "Lallana should be dropped", like Lambert's #1 fan, is it ?

 

I'm not sure what point you're after. I haven't said Lallana should be dropped. #confusing

 

Though you clearly had pre-dertermind RL wouldn't good enough for the Premier League. His 2 goals so far must have been flukes. Bin him out and get someone else in, I say.

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Lambert got no service against Arsenal. Funnily enough he also played well in a good team performance against City as well. It's obviously because kompany and Vidic stood off him and let him play and Vermaelen didn't.

 

You get more room in the Premier League, Turks. Especially against Man City and Man Utd. Everyone knows that. Duh.

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Lambert got no service against Arsenal. Funnily enough he also played well in a good team performance against City as well. It's obviously because kompany and Vidic stood off him and let him play and Vermaelen didn't.

 

He only won one header in the half hour against Kompany, just for the record, but we were much better at playing it on the floor in that half hour than at any point since this season.

He didn't get anywhere near the ball generally against Arsenal, and I thought it was more because the Arsenal players focused on stopping him bringing it down (as well as him getting less service).

 

Against Man U, Vidic competed for the headers, but Ferdinand defending a non-existent flick on, whilst Arsenal's defenders mopped up anything that he managed to get anything on by defending his feet, not his flicks - with the notable exception of the time he got space and played Puncheon in for our keeper-assisted goal.

 

My question would be "should we expect a striker not getting any service to drop deeper and get more involved" ? There's plenty of space in the midfield if you know where to find it - we've seen that plenty so far this season.

 

The Prem's obviously going to look better overall to us at the moment, we haven't come up against anyone we're better than... yet.

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I'm not sure what point you're after. I haven't said Lallana should be dropped. #confusing

 

Though you clearly had pre-dertermind RL wouldn't good enough for the Premier League. His 2 goals so far must have been flukes. Bin him out and get someone else in, I say.

 

You're not Lambert's number 1 fan. I've said since last April that he won't be suitable for certain situations in the Prem, and last Saturday was reminiscent of the main one I described - blanket defending and immobile up front offering no outlet. We've already showed with Lallana and Rodriguez that we can hold onto it and get forward.

 

His 2 goals were not unexpected - our ability to get possession high enough up the pitch to put the ball into the box with him already in there has been - to me at least.

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He only won one header in the half hour against Kompany, just for the record, but we were much better at playing it on the floor in that half hour than at any point since this season.

He didn't get anywhere near the ball generally against Arsenal, and I thought it was more because the Arsenal players focused on stopping him bringing it down (as well as him getting less service).

 

Against Man U, Vidic competed for the headers, but Ferdinand defending a non-existent flick on, whilst Arsenal's defenders mopped up anything that he managed to get anything on by defending his feet, not his flicks - with the notable exception of the time he got space and played Puncheon in for our keeper-assisted goal.

 

My question would be "should we expect a striker not getting any service to drop deeper and get more involved" ? There's plenty of space in the midfield if you know where to find it - we've seen that plenty so far this season.

 

The Prem's obviously going to look better overall to us at the moment, we haven't come up against anyone we're better than... yet.

 

When we're only playing one up front is it sensible to expect our only striker to drop into midfield?

 

I don't really understand what your getting at. Against City he came on and scored, set up a very presentable chance for Fonte and looked very good. Against Man U he scored one and set up one and for the first 60 minute won an awful lot in the air and looked good on the ground against one of the best defences in England, in around 100 minutes of playing time against the top 2 teams last season he's got two goals and an assist. Pretty good, no?

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When we're only playing one up front is it sensible to expect our only striker to drop into midfield?

 

I don't really understand what your getting at. Against City he came on and scored, set up a very presentable chance for Fonte and looked very good. Against Man U he scored one and set up one and for the first 60 minute won an awful lot in the air and looked good on the ground against one of the best defences in England, in around 100 minutes of playing time against the top 2 teams last season he's got two goals and an assist. Pretty good, no?

 

He's been pretty good by anyones standard except of course if you made the foolish mistake if writing Lambert off before the season began and have difficulty eating a bit of humble pie

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When we're only playing one up front is it sensible to expect our only striker to drop into midfield?

 

I don't really understand what your getting at. Against City he came on and scored, set up a very presentable chance for Fonte and looked very good. Against Man U he scored one and set up one and for the first 60 minute won an awful lot in the air and looked good on the ground against one of the best defences in England, in around 100 minutes of playing time against the top 2 teams last season he's got two goals and an assist. Pretty good, no?

 

He's doing better than I thought he would, but that's mainly because I've been surprised at our ability to gain turnovers in advanced areas and (at least in the two Manchester matches) break at pace.

 

I've also said I'll be surprised if he's the chosen option alongside Ramirez by the end of the season, but that will depend on what Nige chooses to do with our new golden boy and if he wants us to suddenly start with the through balls (doesn't suit Lambert) or maintain possession and build to crosses (obviously does). I think the goal is to have 4 strikers with different strengths and use them appropriately for the weaknesses of the opposition. What I didn't expect was Man U to get done from far post headers.

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You're not Lambert's number 1 fan. I've said since last April that he won't be suitable for certain situations in the Prem, and last Saturday was reminiscent of the main one I described - blanket defending and immobile up front offering no outlet. We've already showed with Lallana and Rodriguez that we can hold onto it and get forward.

 

His 2 goals were not unexpected - our ability to get possession high enough up the pitch to put the ball into the box with him already in there has been - to me at least.

 

Why am I not Lambert's #1 fan? I was being sarcastic with my comment to you, I of course think he's been (and is) awsome for us. And I don't think we've shown we can do anything with Rodriguez, if I'm honest.

 

Despite spending around £30M this summer I personally believe Lambert is still one of our best players, and one we should continue to build our side around.

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He's been pretty good by anyones standard except of course if you made the foolish mistake if writing Lambert off before the season began and have difficulty eating a bit of humble pie

 

As I said, he's doing a lot better than I thought he would. I never said he wouldn't score goals, I said the type of goals he scores (pens aside) are less easy to come by in the Prem, which I still think is a valid point, even though he's scored against last season's top 2.

 

Anyway, this is about the Prem generally, not Lambert specifically. When Wigan destroy your 442 you have to believe the Prem generally is a better standard than when we left it. I'd say the team in 15th now is around the ability of the team which was in 8th was 10 years ago, the games are much more tactical due to the extended benches, fitness is higher, the tempo generally is higher for longer. I'd also say we're making more basic errors than any Saints Prem team this millennium as well so it's making us look relatively worse.

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Why am I not Lambert's #1 fan? I was being sarcastic with my comment to you, I of course think he's been (and is) awsome for us. And I don't think we've shown we can do anything with Rodriguez, if I'm honest.

 

Despite spending around £30M this summer I personally believe Lambert is still one of our best players, and one we should continue to build our side around.

 

Because Roger is. I don't think Rodriguez has had much of a chance, plenty of potential though. I definitely don't think we should build around Lambert. Ramirez and Lallana, maybe.

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Because Roger is. I don't think Rodriguez has had much of a chance, plenty of potential though. I definitely don't think we should build around Lambert. Ramirez and Lallana, maybe.

 

If not building around Lambert, Ramirez and Lallana, I'm wondering who we should build around?

 

And who is Roger?

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Benali had many FFS moments and struck fear into the heart of seasoned supporters whenever he ventured forward with the ball at his feet. However he made 389 first-team appearances; so he wasn't that rubbish else one of the many contenders for the position would have been displaced him. He deserves more respect.

 

 

 

Mmmm a left back, thought by many to be not good enough, who has scored only one goal for the club................

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Benali had many FFS moments and struck fear into the heart of seasoned supporters whenever he ventured forward with the ball at his feet. However he made 389 first-team appearances; so he wasn't that rubbish else one of the many contenders for the position would have been displaced him. He deserves more respect.

 

 

 

Mmmm a left back, thought by many to be not good enough, who has scored only one goal for the club................

 

What are you on about? He's got plenty of respect. It's just most people realise he was shall we say, limited. Although a fitter, more committed player you'll never find.

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What are you on about? He's got plenty of respect. It's just most people realise he was shall we say, limited. Although a fitter, more committed player you'll never find.

 

Agreed.

 

I was responding to adriansfc comment 'Benali would be rubbish now, but let's not forget, Benali was rubbish then'. Omitted to Reply with Quote.

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We read lots of clueless nonsense during the summer about how it was an average league, our players would get more time on the ballso would all be fine, half our squad was good enough for England and so on. The fact of the matter is the premier league is still one of the best leagues in the world, every team has top quality players and a number of international playersin their squad. Even our squad, bottom of the league without a point had 5 players on international duty last week.

 

The players get more time on the ball comment was a classic though, yeah of course the best defenders in the world stand off attackers and give them space. :lol:

 

Well ours seem to - does that make them world class :lol:

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If not building around Lambert, Ramirez and Lallana, I'm wondering who we should build around?

 

And who is Roger?

 

I said "not Lambert"; "Ramirez and Lallana maybe". As in one of them is not likely to be a regular beyond this season due to his age, the other two are.

 

I wish I didn't know too.

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As I said, he's doing a lot better than I thought he would. I never said he wouldn't score goals, I said the type of goals he scores (pens aside) are less easy to come by in the Prem, which I still think is a valid point, even though he's scored against last season's top 2.

 

Anyway, this is about the Prem generally, not Lambert specifically. When Wigan destroy your 442 you have to believe the Prem generally is a better standard than when we left it. I'd say the team in 15th now is around the ability of the team which was in 8th was 10 years ago, the games are much more tactical due to the extended benches, fitness is higher, the tempo generally is higher for longer. I'd also say we're making more basic errors than any Saints Prem team this millennium as well so it's making us look relatively worse.

 

On what basis do you think the team in 15th is as good as the team in 8th place from 10 years ago? I'm interested to know your logic for thinking this. Is it not simply a case of evolution of the game and therefore a nonsense comparison. Mistakes many years ago may have gone unpunished as a result of the converse of what you're saying above. In short, mistakes were not magnified back then as the pressure on individuals was less (assuming your theory is correct) therefore "basic" mistakes were easier to avoid.

 

In addition, had the players that played 10 years ago been around now then I am sure they will have been able to equally embrace the advanced science, fitness, tactics and technical improvements so would be better players now than they were then.

 

I simply don't understand the comparison between now and then as it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever. Its the here and now that counts regardless of what standard was needed in the past.

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I dont think the best team have got better but the ones down the bottom have, look at Wigan hitting title winning form at the end of the season and winning at Old Trafford, QPR beat Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea last season. Even Blackburn won and scored 3 at Old Trafford.

 

The only joke team last season was Wolves. Ive heard people say you dont need to beat the big teams to stay up but I think you have to get 1 or 2 wins against them or you have to win every 6 pointer against the relegation sides.

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Complete myth, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea have all had far better sides than they currently do. No-one is saying it isn't a top quality league, it is. All sides are capable, but there will be some poor ones too just as there are every season. There were no easy games in the early 2000s and there are no easy games now.

 

Agree with this, you only have to look at the fact that Man Utd still rely on Scholes and Giggs a lot of the time. They had Ronaldo and Keane in 2005, Arsenal still had Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, Fabregas, Viera, Cole and Chelsea were the Mourinho Chelsea.

 

Yes we have Man City now, however Liverpool have severely declined since then.

 

I would say the major changes is the supporting cast Spurs, Newcastle, Everton are all very good teams now, teams like Fulham and Stoke are very strong. So maybe the middle of the league is a bit stronger than it was.

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I dont think the best team have got better but the ones down the bottom have, look at Wigan hitting title winning form at the end of the season and winning at Old Trafford, QPR beat Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea last season. Even Blackburn won and scored 3 at Old Trafford.

 

The only joke team last season was Wolves. Ive heard people say you dont need to beat the big teams to stay up but I think you have to get 1 or 2 wins against them or you have to win every 6 pointer against the relegation sides.

 

agreed

the Sky money has meant that the sides 8th and down have bought better players, the whole game has moved on since we were last in top flight.

pace and strength added to the skill

staying up this year could be our greatest ever achievement

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agreed

the Sky money has meant that the sides 8th and down have bought better players, the whole game has moved on since we were last in top flight.

pace and strength added to the skill

staying up this year could be our greatest ever achievement

 

Totally agree they also seem more aggressive as well

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quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Turkish viewpost-right.png

 

Looked to me like Lambert dominated them and for the first 60 minutes was almost bullying Vidic. They certainly weren't standing off him.

The9 is on some desperate charge to denigrate RL7; I'm not sure why yet, but it seems to be his "thing". I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure myself what point he's trying to prove; other than that Rickie won't cut it in the PL.

 

I can easily see The9 point of view because Ricky demands far more from those around him to operate that it will detract else where (similar to Rasiak under Burley). That does not mean I can't see the positives in Ricky and until the rest of the team get their act together will not say he should or should not start. One thing I strongly believe is that it is difficult to make a 451 work with Ricky. Just no pace to bother the defenders and forcing us up to the half way line. Away from home Ricky would be on the bench for the first half at least, at home that's a different matter. I am waiting to see what Adkins can do with the group of players we have until I can get a clearer picture of the way forward, at present I have little idea. With the exception we have to have that extra man in midfield to give our defence a chance as things are.

 

Lallana until now has been now been our best player but I would not see it as impossible if he was dropped to give the team better balance. If Ramirez is the player he is hyped up to be and Mayuka has the skill to go along with his undoubted speed, then is another attacking player better than a defensive player with the problems we have. When Lallana and Oxo played together there were times that just did not work because we had no one to win the ball in midfield and the supply dried up.

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Plainly there seems to be more football on the ground and less long-ball than had been the case, but there are still many who will do that (fortunately). I think it's obvious that the calibre of highly-paid mercenary has increased as the EPL, as it's known outside of Blighty, has become richer and other leagues have become poorer e.g. Serie A.

 

As for RL's 'failings', shouldn't really be news to anyone and nor should it be news that Rodriguez will in time take over his spot as he has a second-string to his game. RL will do well because he's got a lot to offer but for him to do continually as well as he has done we'd need others e.g. AL to really up his game because he, as well, needs to often move quicker, pass the ball earlier etc. Then that Cleverly bloke wouldn't get a look in.

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