Saint Charlie Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 He is on loan at Palace, started the first couple of games thenw as dropped and not in the squad at all. Made the bench last night but then they have signed Gabbidon today so he pretty much won't get a game. Wonder if we are able to bring him back and then loan him out again as it does nobody any good him not getting games. He could come back and play in our Dev squad but IMO he just needs proper games which was the idea loaning him out. He has probably only played about 15 professional matches in his career. Maybe we aimed too high sending him to Palace, perhaps should have gone somewhere like Bournemouth or Swindon and played every week. (Before anyone says he could play in our team - he isn't good enough). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 He did ok last season but guess he needs better players around him. Don't think he'll be good enough long term anyway. From the start he didn't look comfortable enough on the ball and isn't that fast. He might become a good championship/l1 defender though. As stupid as bringing him back sounds, he's proven at least as much as Seaborne and has fewer fitness concerns. In fairness it's a big jump from Eastleigh to the PL in three seasons. I suppose it depeands what happens this season if we are relegated players like Aaron might well still have a place at saints if we stay up probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 In fairness it's a big jump from Eastleigh to the PL in three seasons. I suppose it depeands what happens this season if we are relegated players like Aaron might well still have a place at saints if we stay up probably not. The Eastleigh thing is a bit misleading, making it sound like he came from the backwoods. Martin played for England U18s five times. I think he just needs game time and good coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Went to the Palace game last night. Martin is obviously surplus to requirements. Pre-season they only had 1 senior centre back, now they have about 5. Ramage and Delaney last night were solid, Palace were unlucky to concede. Think if they carry on like that then Martin won't get a look in there. Also interesting to note that Billy Sharp started for Forest, was a shame as Forest's attempts to supply their strikers were terrible. He came off in the second half. Dan Harding was average at best. Dexter Blackstock was Sharp's replacement, got the equaliser but it seemed like his only touch of the night! Didn't even realise Simon Gillett was playing until I just looked at the teams! Forest were very unremarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 The Eastleigh thing is a bit misleading, making it sound like he came from the backwoods. Martin played for England U18s five times. I think he just needs game time and good coaching. Not strictly true. He played for the England Schools U18's whilst he was in the 6th form at Itchen College. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Not strictly true. He played for the England Schools U18's whilst he was in the 6th form at Itchen College. Thats what I was getting at. imo he has natural ability but hasnt benefitted from coming through the academy at a good club so is behind in his development compared with others of his age group. Itchen college ist probably a hot bed of coaching talent. Hes a late starter ala Ian Wright who could develop extremely well over the next two seasons if he gets played regularly and coached well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 How old is he? 22? Far too early to write him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Thats what I was getting at. imo he has natural ability but hasnt benefitted from coming through the academy at a good club so is behind in his development compared with others of his age group. Itchen college ist probably a hot bed of coaching talent. Hes a late starter ala Ian Wright who could develop extremely well over the next two seasons if he gets played regularly and coached well. I don't think it was a criticism of Aaron, just that the standard of player he is playing against (now, even in the Championship) is infinitely better than what he was playing against in Conference South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 3 club rule means he can't go elsewhere though ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 I don't think it was a criticism of Aaron, just that the standard of player he is playing against (now, even in the Championship) is infinitely better than what he was playing against in Conference South. yeah that was kind of my point. I think Aaron is a great little player ...I like his story (local boy done good) I just think if you were playing non-league to come to a club that has shot through the divisons like we have it must be hard to adjust. Even non league to league 1 must be a hell of a jump in the sort of players you find yourself playing with and against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 3 club rule means he can't go elsewhere though ? Hasnt played for us this season yet though so he can go somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 3 club rule means he can't go elsewhere though ? 3 Clubs in 12 months.... He has only played for us and Palace, he could go elsewhere. Johnno Forte has played for us, Preston, Crawley and Preston North End within the last year, Aaron would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulletsaint Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Pity it's not worked out as I think that Martin's got something about him and loaning at the moment is a top priority in his development. I always thought he was particularly strong was in the air but the Palace fans I've spoken to reckon that's one area in which he particularly stank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 20 September, 2012 Share Posted 20 September, 2012 Get him back here. He's good enough as backupin the Prem and first choice in cup games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westofshannonsaint Posted 20 September, 2012 Share Posted 20 September, 2012 How old is he? 22? Far too early to write him off. just what I was thinking, when do defenders come into their prime? However, if he is to improve he needs to be playing, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 21 September, 2012 Share Posted 21 September, 2012 I don't think recalls can happen where there is a loan fee paid. I would be surprised if he went without a fee. Also, I'm not sure we can add him (or anyone ) to our squad. He's 22 so would have to be one of the 25 but he isn't. Only free agents can be added (if there's room) and he's not one of them. Also our squad has 23 named players but only one keeper but we have to name 3. My understanding is that we therefore lose those 2 additional spaces meaning we have no space. I'm not certain of these rules though and i hope that I'm wrong. No doubt someone will be able to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 21 September, 2012 Share Posted 21 September, 2012 Unless he was included in the 25 that were given a shirt or in the development squad ones in August then he can't play for us until January, which is when we get the possibility to give him a number again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 September, 2012 Share Posted 21 September, 2012 (edited) Unless he was included in the 25 that were given a shirt or in the development squad ones in August then he can't play for us until January, which is when we get the possibility to give him a number again. We can give him a number any time we like, but he can't play for us until at least January, that's right. Edited 21 September, 2012 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 September, 2012 Share Posted 21 September, 2012 I don't think recalls can happen where there is a loan fee paid. I would be surprised if he went without a fee. Also, I'm not sure we can add him (or anyone ) to our squad. He's 22 so would have to be one of the 25 but he isn't. Only free agents can be added (if there's room) and he's not one of them. Also our squad has 23 named players but only one keeper but we have to name 3. My understanding is that we therefore lose those 2 additional spaces meaning we have no space. I'm not certain of these rules though and i hope that I'm wrong. No doubt someone will be able to clarify. You'd be surprised. So far we've not managed to find that rule anywhere, noted that Norwich appear to have breached it by naming 25 with onl 2 GKs, but also that no-one did that last season which is why people (including me) believe the rule exists. It would also explain why we have 23 players named (that and the fact we only have 23). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintJackoInHurworth Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 In the light of the change of manager at Palace, I thought it might be timely to resurrect this thread. I wonder if Holloway might give Martin the chance of a game? He hasn't done so today, but I guess time will tell. Can I just clarify... is he on a season-long loan or just on loan until January? If he is on a season-long loan I hope that if Palace don't play him this will be cancelled so that he can either: a. be loaned somewhere else where he can get valuable experience, or b. be added to our squad instead of Dan Seaborne - I personally think he would present better back-up than Seaborne, though hopefully we will sign a couple of better first-choice defenders in January, in which case it could be that there will be no space for either of them this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 He did reasonably well when called upon, but defensively we were a lot weaker when he replaced the injured Jos. Footballing wise he is very very average. I've never seen a player, other than Powell, look so uncomfortable with the ball at his feet. He has the worse swinger (left foot) I have ever seen. He will never make a premiership player IMO. If we go down then every game he gets this season will be excellent experience. I don't want him back this season though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingwing Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 I liked Martin, sold in the champ last season, ahead of Seaborne before his injury but not better than Jos. Would be cruel to throw him in the prem any time soon though. It's a shame Palace aren't giving him the games/need the stability from their full time squad. I think a season long loan at Shrewsbury should have been the aim, poor L1 team he would have shinned in to develop his skills and more importantly match confidence. He's one of those players caught between a rock and a hard place though, being with us in the prem this season would have ruined his chances of getting better but he's gone somewhere to get nothing more because he has the Guly label of "the cause of aids" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 3 November, 2012 Share Posted 3 November, 2012 Personally I would put him ahead of Seaborne, he is intelligent enough, and the times he came in cold last season he wasn't too shabby. Playing time is what he needs without doubt.............. But then how many folks have said the same about Boruc............ I am obviously missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 In the light of the change of manager at Palace, I thought it might be timely to resurrect this thread. I wonder if Holloway might give Martin the chance of a game? He hasn't done so today, but I guess time will tell. Can I just clarify... is he on a season-long loan or just on loan until January? If he is on a season-long loan I hope that if Palace don't play him this will be cancelled so that he can either: a. be loaned somewhere else where he can get valuable experience, or b. be added to our squad instead of Dan Seaborne - I personally think he would present better back-up than Seaborne, though hopefully we will sign a couple of better first-choice defenders in January, in which case it could be that there will be no space for either of them this season. He is on a season long loan. It's likely we received a loan fee, but if we can repay that and cancel the loan deal on the grounds it was never "consummated" (if you get my meaning) and have him back here, I would add him to the squad immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 He is on a season long loan. It's likely we received a loan fee, but if we can repay that and cancel the loan deal on the grounds it was never "consummated" (if you get my meaning) and have him back here, I would add him to the squad immediately. Christ alive. You know your defence (and your fan base) is in trouble when Aaron Martin is promoted as a potential solution to our current malaise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 Christ alive. You know your defence (and your fan base) is in trouble when Aaron Martin is promoted as a potential solution to our current malaise. Spot on Dear Mr Hollowhead There is a centre back at your average championship club who isn't considered good enough to get near your average side. Could we have him back to help our premiership relegation battle as our defence needs strengthening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max_saints Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 He is on a season long loan. It's likely we received a loan fee, but if we can repay that and cancel the loan deal on the grounds it was never "consummated" (if you get my meaning) and have him back here, I would add him to the squad immediately. to do what? keep Chaplow and de ridder company on the bench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 How old is he? 22? Far too early to write him off. TRUE ! remembering the likes of Monk, Mills and Williamsson. Martin may not be Premier League material atm, but IMHO he does have a good future - given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 The Eastleigh thing is a bit misleading, making it sound like he came from the backwoods. Martin played for England U18s five times. I think he just needs game time and good coaching. And? A mate of mine captained England Under 18's a few times and he now drives a van for a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 (edited) He is on loan at Palace, started the first couple of games thenw as dropped and not in the squad at all. Made the bench last night but then they have signed Gabbidon today so he pretty much won't get a game. Wonder if we are able to bring him back and then loan him out again as it does nobody any good him not getting games. He could come back and play in our Dev squad but IMO he just needs proper games which was the idea loaning him out. He has probably only played about 15 professional matches in his career. Maybe we aimed too high sending him to Palace, perhaps should have gone somewhere like Bournemouth or Swindon and played every week. (Before anyone says he could play in our team - he isn't good enough). They probably saw the state of our first choice defenders and decided there is no chance they're going to let a back up to that lot loose in their team. Edited 5 November, 2012 by This Charming Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 And? A mate of mine captained England Under 18's a few times and he now drives a van for a living. Can he play at left back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 Solent, and several Palace fans that I know, seem to think that we can't recall him back. Either way, I'm not really too sure how he would help us. Great in the air, but his lack of ability with a football will stand out a country mile in the PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 He doesn't play for them does he? Just a squad player, but when he's ever featured they've let in goals left right and centre. Palace fans think he's awful. Maybe all our CB's took a drug over pre-season which caused them all to forget how to defend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 Solent, and several Palace fans that I know, seem to think that we can't recall him back. Either way, I'm not really too sure how he would help us. Great in the air, but his lack of ability with a football will stand out a country mile in the PL My Palace supporting mates say that he's been awful for them, and has barely played for them since the start of the season. He's only played 3 league games (plus 2 cup games) and apparently looked like Bambi on ice, which is why he was deservedly dropped; a move which saw a complete turnaround in the team's perfromances. Thinking Aaron Martin is any sort of realistic solution for us right now is naive at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 A mate of mine captained England Under 18's a few times and he now drives a van for a living. Sounds like this bloke could give career advice to some of our defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 Christ alive. You know your defence (and your fan base) is in trouble when Aaron Martin is promoted as a potential solution to our current malaise. "Solution" is an overstatement, you used that word, not me. I would say he would be a piece in the jigsaw. I was surprised he was sent out on loan. I would have given him a pass rating in the Championship. If anyone was to go out on loan, I would have sent Seaborne. Martin I would have kept here. I would also have recruited an experienced CB with Prem experience. If you can delve that into summer postings, I made that point more than once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 "Solution" is an overstatement, you used that word, not me. I would say he would be a piece in the jigsaw. I was surprised he was sent out on loan. I would have given him a pass rating in the Championship. If anyone was to go out on loan, I would have sent Seaborne. Martin I would have kept here. I would also have recruited an experienced CB with Prem experience. If you can delve that into summer postings, I made that point more than once. He played 3 games in the Championship early in the season, was subsequently dropped after what I'm informed from a number of sources were pretty shocking performances, and hasn't featured in the league since. He's not considered good enough for a top 6 Championship side; as such I would suggest he isn't a piece in the jigsaw in any Premier league club other than one which is intent upon a return to the lower leagues. If we have to resort to Aaron Martin at any time, then my word we're in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 4 November, 2012 Share Posted 4 November, 2012 He doesn't play for them does he? Just a squad player, but when he's ever featured they've let in goals left right and centre. Palace fans think he's awful. Maybe all our CB's took a drug over pre-season which caused them all to forget how to defend? I always thought he was not a top class player - no skill on the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 5 November, 2012 Share Posted 5 November, 2012 (edited) Whilst I agree that Martin needs more games in order to get in the pecking order..I was surprised that it wasn't Seaborne who went out on loan..... Dan Seaborne played only 4 league + 2 League Cup games last season. Many severely doubted if he would be fit enough to play again. Fortunately he recovered his health, but not his form....(such as it was). Aside from this, his sum total of apps. had been in the L1 side, where he was not always first choice, either. Few players came out with any credit from the debacle at Elland Road, but the Leeds commentator, who tbf....was fairly kind with comments said that Seaborne was totally out of it ..on several occasions. Aaron Martin maybe younger, but his relative inexperience didn't show so much last season when he was suddenly catapulted into the side after Fonte's long injury absence. In all, he made 9 league + 4 league cup and 3 FA Cup apps. ..and scored 2 goals into the bargain (inkl.one as oncoming sub. in the Derby game.) The outcome is now that Martin has been omitted from Palace's (now successful) defensive set-up to the extent that he can't even get on their bench regularly, let alone on the pitch, whilst Seaborne has hardly distinguished himself in 3 rather lame League Cup outings. Overall - some poor decisions there somewhere. After the Leeds game Nigel Adkins made it plain that many of those who (played-if thats what they did ?)....had disappointed and one gets the impression weren't likely to be featured again so quickly. Depending on WHO is making the decisions come January.....I'd loan out Seaborne (somewhere) and bring back Aaron Martin before his career rots away on the Palace training ground. Edited 5 November, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Shanks Posted 5 November, 2012 Share Posted 5 November, 2012 The real truth here is that neither Seabourne or Martin are nearly good enough for the premier league and its unlikely they ever will be. We need to recruit a couple of defenders with decent premier league experience who are proven at the top level. Needless to say that will not be easy. I don't envy Nigel's position at the moment. He needs to get those defenders in now but will have to wait until January when it may be too late for him and for us. He gambled on Fonte, Hooiveld, Yoshida, Fox etc being good enough for the premier league. It's quite clear that they are not quite up to the mark and probably never will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 5 November, 2012 Share Posted 5 November, 2012 The real truth here is that neither Seabourne or Martin are nearly good enough for the premier league and its unlikely they ever will be. We need to recruit a couple of defenders with decent premier league experience who are proven at the top level. Needless to say that will not be easy. I don't envy Nigel's position at the moment. He needs to get those defenders in now but will have to wait until January when it may be too late for him and for us. He gambled on Fonte, Hooiveld, Yoshida, Fox etc being good enough for the premier league. It's quite clear that they are not quite up to the mark and probably never will be. ..couldn't agree more .......(and maybe not only two)....quite a few of us wrote about that - even in the Spring. and whilst we may have seen the last of Seaborne as a squad player, I think we know too little about Martin (still developing) and the Palace nightmare proves nothing.....for me - the jury is still out on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintJackoInHurworth Posted 5 November, 2012 Share Posted 5 November, 2012 My reason for resurrecting this thread was not in any way to suggest that Martin was the answer to our defensive woes. It was written as some have rightly noted in the light of Seaborne's untimely recall to the squad against Leeds (a match which I had the displeasure of witnessing) and in the light of the change of manager at Palace. Ultimately, whether or not Martin has a Premiership future, it is doing him and us no favours if he is rotting away without any chance to play for a team in the Championship. I hope that either Holloway helps him to get sorted or that it is possible for the loan to be cancelled so that he can be loaned out somewhere where he might get some experience (or in a worst-case scenario, that he can replace Seaborne as our fourth/fifth central defender). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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