Dazza82 Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 Saying we are getting into good defensive positions but it is just silly little errors, picked up on Clyne for two goals and Centre Backs being too far apart for 3rd. Said we need to learn but we are getting in the right positions defensively and its mainly in our heads. I like Neville he talks alot of sense and is very honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 He then tore into reading... LOL I think he likes us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 17 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2012 Get him on board as defensive coach lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 What did he say about reading DD's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 What did he say about reading DD's? Just said it was appalling.... No positioning and very poor set up and shape He mentioned that top teams will get the run around against this arsenal team... They are excellent t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Donovan Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 I thought that was a fantastic breakdown of our performance, Neville is slowly but surely becoming my favourite pundit!! Extremely informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 Cheers dds' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPY Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 Fantastic pundit. Any defender out there could do a lot worse than listening to his analysis. Can learn a lot from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 The long and short of it is that while we were set up almost perfectly, especially in midfield, it was little lapses that cost us each time. For example, for the first goal, Clyne's body position was in the wrong direction which meant he couldn't keep an eye on Gibbs outside him, and the third was because Fonte and Clyne hadn't moved across with the other half of the back 4, leaving a massive gap for Gervinho to run into. On the flipside, Reading were in trouble right from the start because their midfield were lazy in their positioning and tracking, and then every time Spurs got the ball in wide areas, each of the back 4 were facing their goal and nobody patrolling the massive gap in the centre of the penalty area, which is where both of the first two goals came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints_is_the_south Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 If I were Nigel Adkins I'd be on the phone to Gary Neville asking him if he'd come down to Staplewood for a bit of defensive coaching. Even if it was only for a week. Would help us no bounds IMO. Got nothing to lose by asking either, he can only say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 To think Andy Gray had that position so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 First time I've watched the goals since I was there sat, one thing I picked up was it seemed it was 1 pass took out our whole midfield with no one really tracking back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 The long and short of it is that while we were set up almost perfectly, especially in midfield, it was little lapses that cost us each time. For example, for the first goal, Clyne's body position was in the wrong direction which meant he couldn't keep an eye on Gibbs outside him, and the third was because Fonte and Clyne hadn't moved across with the other half of the back 4, leaving a massive gap for Gervinho to run into. On the flipside, Reading were in trouble right from the start because their midfield were lazy in their positioning and tracking, and then every time Spurs got the ball in wide areas, each of the back 4 were facing their goal and nobody patrolling the massive gap in the centre of the penalty area, which is where both of the first two goals came from. How many did we make against United? Loads. Some of them were quite innocent, others suicidal. Reading did the same against Spurs, kept making individual errors, slipping up, bad touches, everywhere. Is it the Premier League ball I wonder? West Ham obviously doing well despite the ball, if my theory is right, because it's in the air most of the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 The thing I noticed was that at one point in the first 10 minutes Arsenal had the ball in the centre circle unchallenged with 5 players between our midfield and defensive lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 How many did we make against United? Loads. Some of them were quite innocent, others suicidal. Reading did the same against Spurs, kept making individual errors, slipping up, bad touches, everywhere. Is it the Premier League ball I wonder? West Ham obviously doing well despite the ball, if my theory is right, because it's in the air most of the time... No, it's not. HTH. Arsenal were using the same ball. Also, Saints have been training with that ball since the start of July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 No, it's not. HTH. Arsenal were using the same ball. Also, Saints have been training with that ball since the start of July. Equally HTH, Arsenal and other Premier League clubs used to similar footballs, unlike us with what the Football League have given us over the past seven years? HTH BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 What about the worrying statistics he mentioned? Ie that no promoted club has ever stayed up that has lost the first four games! And not just last season either. Those who thought are season started after the first four games are in denial twelve points lost is massive lose the next two and we are effectively gone. I know people will say its over reactionary but it's being realistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bensfcno1 Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 But if every team that lost to United, City and Arsenal went down, the prem really would have about 5 teams in it at best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonko Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 A worrying statistic maybe but how many of the teams that lost the first four games and then went on to get relegated had the top three from the previous season in those first four games? Stop worrying, we'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 What about the worrying statistics he mentioned? Ie that no promoted club has ever stayed up that has lost the first four games! And not just last season either. Those who thought are season started after the first four games are in denial twelve points lost is massive lose the next two and we are effectively gone. I know people will say its over reactionary but it's being realistic The year that we went down from the Prem, no side had ever survived when bottom at Christmas. West Brom bucked that trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 What about the worrying statistics he mentioned? Ie that no promoted club has ever stayed up that has lost the first four games! And not just last season either. Those who thought are season started after the first four games are in denial twelve points lost is massive lose the next two and we are effectively gone. I know people will say its over reactionary but it's being realistic Absolutely, no team has ever overturned a MASSIVE two point gap with only thirty-four games to play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 What about the worrying statistics he mentioned? Ie that no promoted club has ever stayed up that has lost the first four games! And not just last season either. Those who thought are season started after the first four games are in denial twelve points lost is massive lose the next two and we are effectively gone. I know people will say its over reactionary but it's being realistic We lost the first 5 games years ago (97/98?) and stayed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 We lost the first 5 games years ago (97/98?) and stayed up. We weren't 'newly promoted' though. You're quite right however, as is everyone else who points out that this isn't really a big deal - at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 Equally HTH, Arsenal and other Premier League clubs used to similar footballs, unlike us with what the Football League have given us over the past seven years? HTH BTW. It's not the same brand ball as the numerous different ones we've used in the FL, no, but I don't recall anyone blaming the ball for us scoring twice against the Manchester clubs, and besides, they've been exclusively using that ball in all training sessions for over 2 months which is plenty of time to get used to it. As we learned with the Jabulani in the 2010 World Cup, not all same-brand balls are the same anyway. This season's is a Nike Maxim, last year's was the Nike Seitiro, they're not the same design either, though the basic number of panels behind it hasn't changed since at least 2007. How they feel might have from Nike ball to Nike ball though. Either way, it's a rubbish excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 We lost the first 5 games years ago (97/98?) and stayed up. 98/99. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 We weren't 'newly promoted' though. You're quite right however, as is everyone else who points out that this isn't really a big deal - at the moment. No, but we were Southampton FC, which is at least as relevant from a statistical perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 Absolutely, no team has ever overturned a MASSIVE two point gap with only thirty-four games to play... That wasn't the point I or Gary neville was making and well you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 That wasn't the point I or Gary neville was making and well you know it. It is however, far more relevant. Much as I hate to ignore the Wigan result as a worrying pointer, shall we have a statistical analysis of how many of those promoted teams played the previous season's top 3 in their first 4 matches ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 Very good analysis and of course it is those little lapses that are the difference between the premirship and the NPC. We have had a baptism of fire playing the top 3 clubs, we will do better and i am sure the seaason is far from over. Keep the faith ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 I thought that was a fantastic breakdown of our performance, Neville is slowly but surely becoming my favourite pundit!! Extremely informative. We could do worse than get him down to Staplewood for a day's workshop with our defenders. After all he was a very experienced full back too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 If I were Nigel Adkins I'd be on the phone to Gary Neville asking him if he'd come down to Staplewood for a bit of defensive coaching. Even if it was only for a week. Would help us no bounds IMO. Got nothing to lose by asking either, he can only say no. LOL. ezactly, he can ONLY say No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 I watched the programme and was also very impressed with Neville's articulate explanation of our defensive display v Arsenal ! His points were logical and valid but not actually that easy to correct ! Ie. if our shape was in completely in order, there is not much more you can do on the training ground to better it. It seems that the system is ok but that the quality of our players perhaps is not !! TBF, he also said that Arsenal were awesome on the day, so hopefully we won't get crucified in the same way by other (lesser?) teams !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintstr1 Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 If I were Nigel Adkins I'd be on the phone to Gary Neville asking him if he'd come down to Staplewood for a bit of defensive coaching. Even if it was only for a week. Would help us no bounds IMO. Got nothing to lose by asking either, he can only say no. Or get NC to offer him a assistant Managers position, Gary has all the prem experience in the world and knows what is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 We could do worse than get him down to Staplewood for a day's workshop with our defenders. After all he was a very experienced full back too. Wouldn't that be admitting that your own coaches aren't up to the job.....which may be about right actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulletsaint Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 Wouldn't that be admitting that your own coaches aren't up to the job.....which may be about right actually. Possibly. As I said I thought the defensive coaching needed work. However if Mr. Neville is to be believed it's less about coaching and shape and more about individual errors. Kinda feel I'm chasing my tail on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 Or get NC to offer him a assistant Managers position, Gary has all the prem experience in the world and knows what is required. Think about how much money he makes from Sky Sports and the FA. He wouldn't even give it a thought. I bet plenty of prem managers have thought about this/made enquiries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Biggs Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 After watching the first four games, I was highly impressed with the performance against both Manchester team, Credit to the lads for those games at times we were moving the ball around very well. Potentially attacking wise the ability is there, Four games down and we have let in 14 goals which immediately screams to anyone with a brain that are back four and keeper are possibly not good enough for this league. I don't rate Fox at this level at all or Fonte Ok we have spent 12 Million on Ramirez, and 6 Million on Jay Rod who has been played out of position and is unproven at this level. It doesn't matter who you have upfront if your Keeper and back four are weaker than a granny trying to enter a mr world competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 If I were Nigel Adkins I'd be on the phone to Gary Neville asking him if he'd come down to Staplewood for a bit of defensive coaching. Even if it was only for a week. Would help us no bounds IMO. Got nothing to lose by asking either, he can only say no. I think that would slightly undermine the other coaches if GN came in only for a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 Why on earth would Gary Neville help us ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 Wouldn't that be admitting that your own coaches aren't up to the job.....which may be about right actually. There's nothing Neville said that they won't already be coaching them, it's down to the players to make the right decisions - their structure and positioning (mostly) is sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 Why on earth would Gary Neville help us ? So speaks the man who doesn't have a clue about the sort of tactical and positional analysis he's providing around Sky's coverage. Imagine Andy Gray with the tactics board but actually telling people the kind of basic technical skills that all decent players who've had coaching know but the public never gets to hear about. Having said that, I think Neville's "you learn at school at 12 or 13 the basics about the full backs moving across" betrayed a life at a top club's football Academy as opposed to grassroots youth parks football. Admittedly at 39 I'm now of a different era, but I didn't even get coached the basics until I was 21, and that was only because I put myself on a preliminary coaching course. Even in 1995/6 whilst at a club who'd played in the UEFA Cup that season I never actually had a positional coaching session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 So speaks the man who doesn't have a clue about the sort of tactical and positional analysis he's providing around Sky's coverage. Imagine Andy Gray with the tactics board but actually telling people the kind of basic technical skills that all decent players who've had coaching know but the public never gets to hear about. Having said that, I think Neville's "you learn at school at 12 or 13 the basics about the full backs moving across" betrayed a life at a top club's football Academy as opposed to grassroots youth parks football. Admittedly at 39 I'm now of a different era, but I didn't even get coached the basics until I was 21, and that was only because I put myself on a preliminary coaching course. Even in 1995/6 whilst at a club who'd played in the UEFA Cup that season I never actually had a positional coaching session. I think you didnt read my post properly. Why......on earth.......would Garry Neville......help US ??? He gets paid a lot to deliver buzz phrases and platitudes on TV and appear to be objective. He had no time for us as a player, and there are probably 50 other teams hed rather spend his time helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 I think you didnt read my post properly. Why......on earth.......would Garry Neville......help US ??? He gets paid a lot to deliver buzz phrases and platitudes on TV and appear to be objective. He had no time for us as a player, and there are probably 50 other teams hed rather spend his time helping. I read what was there without any emphasis. Which came across to me as "I doubt Gary Neville could offer Saints any skills because of a lack of ability on his part over what we already have" rather than "for what reason would he help Saints in particular?". Now you've clarified, yeah, there's no particular reason he'd want to help Saints - I doubt doubt he'd be happy to do so though - I assume he's not getting paid to be an England coach to merely spout platitudes (Phil Neal and Sammy Lee examples aside), so that would suggest he's a decent coach with something to contribute. However, I don't think the problems are from coaching, apart from maybe our tendency to stay narrow as opponents exploit the space wide of the box. It's just going to take time for the players to come up to the speed of decision making and reaction required in the Premier League - some of them will, some won't have that capability. It's one of the reasons I was spouting off about Prem experience all pre-season, the learning curve usually involves losing matches in the interim - lucky for us the 3 top sides we've played will give us problems the others won't pose and have steepened that curve, but whether we actually learn from them is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekelund24 Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 It is however, far more relevant. Much as I hate to ignore the Wigan result as a worrying pointer, shall we have a statistical analysis of how many of those promoted teams played the previous season's top 3 in their first 4 matches ? If you add in the form table over the last 15 games then we played the top 4 as Wigan would've been third in the table, winning seven and losing just two in the last ten games of last season, including wins over Newcastle, Arsenal, United and Liverpool. Something to take heart from is that Wigan won just three games in the first 24 games and lost four in a row and seperately eight in a row, and still stayed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 There's nothing Neville said that they won't already be coaching them, it's down to the players to make the right decisions - their structure and positioning (mostly) is sound. This. Just cos Gary Neville points it out on Sky, doesn't mean the coaching staff don't see it. Chances are, Adkins and his team had looked at it all Saturday evening or Sunday morning whilst preparing the players' debrief session for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 If you add in the form table over the last 15 games then we played the top 4 as Wigan would've been third in the table, winning seven and losing just two in the last ten games of last season, including wins over Newcastle, Arsenal, United and Liverpool. Something to take heart from is that Wigan won just three games in the first 24 games and lost four in a row and seperately eight in a row, and still stayed up Yeah, I know their form was good, but it was Wigan, with Wigan's turnover of players, and their traditionally slow start, yet they killed us off by keeping possession for large chunks of that match, which is something we weren't able to do to them. In addition they had the likes of Di Santo and Kone who looked Prem class, and Maloney, who looks like Steve Davis with more ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 We could do with getting someone like GN in to help with our defensive coaching, someone who's as experienced as him at this level and knows what it takes. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 We could do with getting someone like GN in to help with our defensive coaching, someone who's as experienced as him at this level and knows what it takes. Any ideas? What's Dave Bassett up to now? #runsandhides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 We could do with getting someone like GN in to help with our defensive coaching, someone who's as experienced as him at this level and knows what it takes. Any ideas? Who've we got at the moment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 18 September, 2012 Share Posted 18 September, 2012 Who've we got at the moment ? I think Dean Wilkins takes defensive training. Crosby focuses more on set-pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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