Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 Obviously, he is going to be a very good player. He's good going forward and has good pace to get the team out of trouble. However, he is very suspect defensively. Most of the time where he has to use his pace is to get himself out of trouble due to poor positional play (call him Southamptons Micah Richards). There have also been a lot of chances and goals come from his side of the pitch, maybe even more than from the much maligned left of Fox. I am wondering why people on this forum seem to be glossing over this. I question (and I did before the season began) the wisdom of throwing him in to the first 4 games where he was trying to get to grips with a new defence in a new league ahead of Richardson. Young players are impressionable and these games really could have dented his confidence. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 Clyne is clearly a better player now than Richardson. He also (as with Fox) hasnt been getting a lot of cover from the player in front of him. I was at the Emirates, and really he could only have done better for the goal where Ramsay turned him too easily. Otherwise he slipped to allow RVP to score vs Utd but that could have happened to anyone. He is a good 1 v 1 defender. Obviously people get disappointed after we lose but we have bigger issues than Clyne who generally has looked the best of our back 5 IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 He's a very good right back IMO and has all the attributes to be great. He was at fault for Gervinho's second goal at the weekend, the OG was just unlucky and all fullbacks have seen those slice in from time to time. He could do with more protection, especially as he likes to get forward. If we can sort that out, he'll look an even better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 17 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2012 Clyne is clearly a better player now than Richardson. He also (as with Fox) hasnt been getting a lot of cover from the player in front of him. I was at the Emirates, and really he could only have done better for the goal where Ramsay turned him too easily. Otherwise he slipped to allow RVP to score vs Utd but that could have happened to anyone. He is a good 1 v 1 defender. Obviously people get disappointed after we lose but we have bigger issues than Clyne who generally has looked the best of our back 5 IMO. He slipped against United a few times, he had the wrong studs on and that is a basic error that should have been sorted during the warm-ups. But he won't do that again. I'm not saying Clyne is the issue, but I don't really think we would have done worse with Richardson, and it may have shielded him slightly from the humiliation of being part of that back 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 He slipped against United a few times, he had the wrong studs on and that is a basic error that should have been sorted during the warm-ups. But he won't do that again. I'm not saying Clyne is the issue, but I don't really think we would have done worse with Richardson, and it may have shielded him slightly from the humiliation of being part of that back 5. Totally agree re studs - crazy that a player can get that wrong. I think Richardson is a bit hyped up on here - he was solid for us but wasn't good enough for the Prem when he was younger and isn't now. He would be ripped apart by some of the attackers we have faced so far. The (great) tackle where Clyne injured Aguero for example, against Richardson Aguero would have run through on goal. He is the only quick player in the back four and as Dig Dig says has the attributes to be great - of course a work in progress but he is doing ok IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 Same as always though isnt it....when a player is out of the team, they suddenly get better and better in peoples eyes, until they return and then realise they're really not that great. I.E. Chaplow. I've even seen Guly's name get a mention in regards to this ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen_dan Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 I think he is a top player. Gonna be a star in the future but I was a big fan of Richardson (even when he signed and everyone else was against him) however Clyne is a big upgrade on him IMO. Solid defensively, good at 1-on-1s and possesses good pace to get himself out of any tricky situations. I do however think he and Fox have been exposed due to a bit of tactical naivety from Adkins. He has told the full backs to attack and push on but you can't do that in this division when the defence / CB is as weak/frail as ours is. At a club like Chelsea with Terry & Cahill or City with Kompany & Lescott, they can do it because of the strength in the CB pairing and our tactics would be ideal but with 2 of Fonte, Hooiveld or Yoshida, at our club, these just aren't good enough for us to be this attacking. We need to tell Clyne and Fox, their main duty is to defend. I didn't like Butterfield at League 1 or Championship level because he didn't attack enough and get beyond the wide man BUT in this division, his defensive style would be ideal to use. Stay solid, push up to the half way line / 5 yards over (when attacking) and no more. No need for the overlap every time. Cross from deep if need be. Let the wingers do the attacking, you focus on the defensive side. This way you then still have the 4 defenders and the DM shielding the back 4. This lets the other 5 "attacking players" score the goals and create. I think the criticism of Fox and Clyne is unfair because our tactics are leaving them exposed big time. These 2 are then in turn leaving the 2 CB's exposed big time. Therefore leaving the GK exposed big time. It is a domino effect. Get the 2 attacking wingers to win the ball high up the pitch, if not, drop back, support the full backs and track your runners (something both Puncheon and Lallana were guilty of v Arsenal) Then, as the season progresses, slowly give the FB's a bit for freedom and licence to push when we become more accustom to the higher level if things are getting better. A little tweak would IMO stand us in good stead for the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 17 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2012 I think he is a top player. Gonna be a star in the future but I was a big fan of Richardson (even when he signed and everyone else was against him) however Clyne is a big upgrade on him IMO. Solid defensively, good at 1-on-1s and possesses good pace to get himself out of any tricky situations. I do however think he and Fox have been exposed due to a bit of tactical naivety from Adkins. He has told the full backs to attack and push on but you can't do that in this division when the defence / CB is as weak/frail as ours is. At a club like Chelsea with Terry & Cahill or City with Kompany & Lescott, they can do it because of the strength in the CB pairing and our tactics would be ideal but with 2 of Fonte, Hooiveld or Yoshida, at our club, these just aren't good enough for us to be this attacking. We need to tell Clyne and Fox, their main duty is to defend. I didn't like Butterfield at League 1 or Championship level because he didn't attack enough and get beyond the wide man BUT in this division, his defensive style would be ideal to use. Stay solid, push up to the half way line / 5 yards over (when attacking) and no more. No need for the overlap every time. Cross from deep if need be. Let the wingers do the attacking, you focus on the defensive side. This way you then still have the 4 defenders and the DM shielding the back 4. This lets the other 5 "attacking players" score the goals and create. I think the criticism of Fox and Clyne is unfair because our tactics are leaving them exposed big time. These 2 are then in turn leaving the 2 CB's exposed big time. Therefore leaving the GK exposed big time. It is a domino effect. Get the 2 attacking wingers to win the ball high up the pitch, if not, drop back, support the full backs and track your runners (something both Puncheon and Lallana were guilty of v Arsenal) Then, as the season progresses, slowly give the FB's a bit for freedom and licence to push when we become more accustom to the higher level if things are getting better. A little tweak would IMO stand us in good stead for the rest of the season. I do not disagree with this in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 Obviously, he is going to be a very good player. He's good going forward and has good pace to get the team out of trouble. However, he is very suspect defensively. Most of the time where he has to use his pace is to get himself out of trouble due to poor positional play (call him Southamptons Micah Richards). There have also been a lot of chances and goals come from his side of the pitch, maybe even more than from the much maligned left of Fox. I am wondering why people on this forum seem to be glossing over this. I question (and I did before the season began) the wisdom of throwing him in to the first 4 games where he was trying to get to grips with a new defence in a new league ahead of Richardson. Young players are impressionable and these games really could have dented his confidence. Thoughts? I seem to have read thoughts like this for the last umpteen seasons DPS. A full back is " no-good " ..if he can't overlap once in a while and put in a decent centre to help bolster the attacks... BUT what happens when he's caught out of position, and can't get back..or is beaten for pace by a fast winger / striker ?...and it results in a goal ? To me... .it sounds like the criticism levelled at every full back we've ever had .....especially after a big defeat. Gareth Bale....surely one of the most promising British player to grace the Prem in the last 5 years was deemed to be great in overlapping / attacking moves , but not a very good defender....(!). So what's your choice. If you dare tackle a fast player anywhere near the penalty area, it's either gonna be a penalty...or at worst...a dangerously-placed free kick. Podolski's goal on Saturday might come into that category. Nathaniel Clyne is a very promising (as yet uncapped) player, who like.... most of the rest of our squad ....has played most of his (short) career in the Championship, so how come he suddenly look so poor against international strikers and very experiencd, some of whom have even played in previous World Cups? If you are expecting ..criticism / comment / call it what you will ..about Clyne ..please supply a short list of good full backs who hardly ever get beaten ..and tackle faultlessly.. so we have a yardstick to go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 17 September, 2012 Share Posted 17 September, 2012 I do not disagree with this in the slightest. Nor me, and the key difference between Fox and Clyne is that Clyne has the energy to get forward and back but Fox doesn't so he is often in no man's land near the halfway line. He neither gets forward far enough when we attack, nor gets back enough to defend sufficiently - especially for someone with no pace he leaves way too much space in behind. Re tracking abck the issue is that Lallana and Puncheon are needing to be the main supports for Lambert - they can't be expected to do this and then also be on the edge of our box. IMO we would be best playing 4-4-1-1 with Ramirez off Lambert and for Lallana and Puncheon to play how the wide players did last year - ie get forward but also get into good defensive positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 In the England u-21 squad for their Euro play off vs Serbia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 In the England u-21 squad for their Euro play off vs Serbia He should start too. He came on as sub for the last game but Martin Kelly played RB; Kelly has since been long term crocked after doing his cruciate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 I think the FA have their eye on Carl Jenkison too....probably for the full sqaud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonroader07 Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 He is already a good player and will only get better with games, sitting on the bench will do him and US no good, he is clearly better than FR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 He is already a good player and will only get better with games, sitting on the bench will do him and US no good, he is clearly better than FR He's played in every game since he signed ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 I think the FA have their eye on Carl Jenkison too....probably for the full sqaud. Dunno; with Kyle Walker and Glen Johnson already there (plus Micah Richards being ignored) it would be a hell of a fast-track. I don't particularly rate Jenkinson; he's ok but not a very dynamic right back IMO. Although he seems to be stronger defensively than going forwards, which is a bonus for England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 The FA and Jenkinson will have to make up their minds soon, Finland want him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 I think the FA have their eye on Carl Jenkison too....probably for the full sqaud. But does Jenkinson have his eye on England considering he has played more games for Finland U19's and U21's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityRanger Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 In the England u-21 squad for their Euro play off vs Serbia No Ward-Prowse in the U'19's or U'21's. Did he disgrace himself on Under 19 duty? Or is he about to be picked for the England Senior Squad? Not entirely linked to this thread but I can't start a new one! Or maybe someone knows a reason, is he injured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 but I was a big fan of Richardson (even when he signed and everyone else was against him) er, I don't recall there being a single person unhappy at us signing the League 1 PFA team of the year right back. You certainly went against the tide with your support there. rolling eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 In the England u-21 squad for their Euro play off vs Serbia surprised JWP has not been selected ahead of Lansbury, who couldn't make any impact at Arsenal, after a bright start at Norwich couldn't get in their side, failed to get in the West Ham side last season and has struggled to get in the Forest side since his move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 surprised JWP has not been selected ahead of Lansbury, who couldn't make any impact at Arsenal, after a bright start at Norwich couldn't get in their side, failed to get in the West Ham side last season and has struggled to get in the Forest side since his move. Maybe NA asked for him to not be called up, citing injuries to two other midfielders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Obviously, he is going to be a very good player. He's good going forward and has good pace to get the team out of trouble. However, he is very suspect defensively.QUOTE] I don't think many of us would disagree with that part Dibden......but isn't that just the sort of statement you don't want to have to say about your right back ? If he's a right back, he should be a strong defender, any other skills are a bonus. If he doesn't defend ...who the he** will ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 (edited) Obviously, he is going to be a very good player. He's good going forward and has good pace to get the team out of trouble. However, he is very suspect defensively. Most of the time where he has to use his pace is to get himself out of trouble due to poor positional play (call him Southamptons Micah Richards). There have also been a lot of chances and goals come from his side of the pitch, maybe even more than from the much maligned left of Fox. I am wondering why people on this forum seem to be glossing over this. I question (and I did before the season began) the wisdom of throwing him in to the first 4 games where he was trying to get to grips with a new defence in a new league ahead of Richardson. Young players are impressionable and these games really could have dented his confidence. Thoughts? He's been pretty much excellent, even when Gary Neville was criticising him he was calling himself "harsh" and pointing out that they were mistakes you couldn't get away with against Champions League teams. Except for "wafting a leg" at the own goal, he called him on that one. FWIW I think Clyne's been strong, well positioned, exciting going forward, enthusiastic and comfortable in possession. He's no Darren Kenton, haring back from 20 yards away to overrun the ball again and fail to complete passes for matches on end... Edited 4 October, 2012 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 He slipped against United a few times, he had the wrong studs on and that is a basic error that should have been sorted during the warm-ups. But he won't do that again. I'm not saying Clyne is the issue, but I don't really think we would have done worse with Richardson, and it may have shielded him slightly from the humiliation of being part of that back 5. He's no longer even wearing that brand of boots, never mind the same studs, having switched to Nike from the red and blue adidas adizero F50s he started the season in. He's also by no means alone in slipping over on our heavily-watered pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 He's no longer even wearing that brand of boots, never mind the same studs, having switched to Nike from the red and blue adidas adizero F50s he started the season in. He's also by no means alone in slipping over on our heavily-watered pitch. Against Villa pretty much the first thing he did was slip over preparing for an innoucuos defensive header. didn't notice him doing it again after that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Against Villa pretty much the first thing he did was slip over preparing for an innoucuos defensive header. didn't notice him doing it again after that though. slipped over againts Man u that let V.Persie to score..and slipped again about 5 mins later in the same place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 slipped over againts Man u that let V.Persie to score..and slipped again about 5 mins later in the same place We know. And so did numerous other players, just not in as high profile situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Was QPR Clyne's best game for us? I would say so - excellent going fowards and defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Developing a real good understanding with Punch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southamptonfclegend Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 Obviously, he is going to be a very good player. He's good going forward and has good pace to get the team out of trouble. However, he is very suspect defensively. Most of the time where he has to use his pace is to get himself out of trouble due to poor positional play (call him Southamptons Micah Richards). There have also been a lot of chances and goals come from his side of the pitch, maybe even more than from the much maligned left of Fox. I am wondering why people on this forum seem to be glossing over this. I question (and I did before the season began) the wisdom of throwing him in to the first 4 games where he was trying to get to grips with a new defence in a new league ahead of Richardson. Young players are impressionable and these games really could have dented his confidence. Thoughts? I am beginning to think you have never seen him play.. 'very good at getting forward'? he always dallies around with it and never reaches the byline.. as for being suspect at the back (which he clearly isn't) he has been our only consistent defender the only game where he was really outplayed down his side was Arsenal mainly because Puncheon didn't track the running on Gibbs.. so he was constantly 2v1 on that side.. In my opinion he will be a very good Premier League right back and is currently much better than what we have and clearly is only going to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 20 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 November, 2012 I am beginning to think you have never seen him play.. 'very good at getting forward'? he always dallies around with it and never reaches the byline.. as for being suspect at the back (which he clearly isn't) he has been our only consistent defender the only game where he was really outplayed down his side was Arsenal mainly because Puncheon didn't track the running on Gibbs.. so he was constantly 2v1 on that side.. In my opinion he will be a very good Premier League right back and is currently much better than what we have and clearly is only going to get better. I'm starting to think you've never seen him play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 20 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 November, 2012 Was QPR Clyne's best game for us? I would say so - excellent going fowards and defensively. Completely, he was excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 Clyne is shaping up magnificently, judging by the QPR showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 Completely, he was excellent. Definitely, he had a slightly shaky spell but has been great the last few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 20 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 November, 2012 Definitely, he had a slightly shaky spell but has been great the last few games. For me I didn't want him exposed to much shellacking from better teams and lose vonfidence in his ability. He seems to have got over his shaky spell, and fair play he looks excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southamptonfclegend Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 I'm starting to think you've never seen him play... So you just repeated what I said? nice one, I have seen him play 8 times competitively for us this season and twice against us last season.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 20 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 November, 2012 So you just repeated what I said? nice one, I have seen him play 8 times competitively for us this season and twice against us last season.. And you don't think he uses his pace to get himslef out of situations where he is badly positioned. I saw a stat that more goals have come from down his side than Danny Fox's...there is a eeason for that. He is our Micah Richards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raynesparksaint Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 However, he is very suspect defensively. To say "very" is a strong statement and I think a little harsh. He has been playing alongside a jittery back 4 for the most part, and aside from the slips and slides already mentioned, has acquitted himself very well defensively in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 (edited) To say "very" is a strong statement and I think a little harsh. He has been playing alongside a jittery back 4 for the most part, and aside from the slips and slides already mentioned, has acquitted himself very well defensively in my view. Agree its a bit harsh, especially because five posts up DPS says Clyne now looks "excellent". Which is it? FWIW I think he is a very good 1v1 defender. I can't think of any goals he has been at fault for aside from when he slipped versus Man Utd. Teams will look to exploit his size so its up to him to find a way to deal with that. Excellent partnership with Puncheon. Edited 20 November, 2012 by Saint Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 20 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 November, 2012 Agree its a bit harsh, especially because five posts up DPS says Clyne now looks "excellent". Which is it? FWIW I think he is a very good 1v1 defender. I can't think of any goals he has been at fault for aside from when he slipped versus Man Utd. Teams will look to exploit his size so its up to him to find a way to deal with that. Excellent partnership with Puncheon. To be fair where I said very suspect was after watching him last season for Palace and the first 4 weeks of this season. The post he is referring to was written on the 17th Sep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 20 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 November, 2012 To say "very" is a strong statement and I think a little harsh. He has been playing alongside a jittery back 4 for the most part, and aside from the slips and slides already mentioned, has acquitted himself very well defensively in my view. That was written over 2 months ago, and was on the back of watching himat Palace and the first month of this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 To be fair where I said very suspect was after watching him last season for Palace and the first 4 weeks of this season. The post he is referring to was written on the 17th Sep. Oh - sorry, hadn't read that. He did take some time to settle but looks strong now. Will be the same with Shaw IMO - he looks good but is holding back from attacking too much just now - will be good to see him once he is settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raynesparksaint Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 That was written over 2 months ago, and was on the back of watching himat Palace and the first month of this season. Ah ok, fair enough. Although I thought in the first game at Man City he looked pretty solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 Garth Crooks is impressed, features in his team of the week along with Puncheon. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20388330 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 Garth Crooks is impressed, features in his team of the week along with Puncheon. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20388330 my my what a gung ho team, there are no defensive midfielders in it. Looks like a bit of a 4-0-6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 The full backs were excellent against QPR. More improvement came from Shaw but was required to be an effective part of the team. I am absolutely delighted with Clyne but have said from the start he has to remember the day job before he gets too carried away with his adventures. But equally you need the threat to keep the opposition worried and Clyne has done that well. He has the ability to get back and catch a player with a good tackle, one of the few successes of this transfer window so far. Clyne is a threat but the end product needs refinement, especially between him and Puncheon. They should be creating far better opportunities than they have but nothing to stop them. Clyne has to get that balance right between defend and attack but I always feel this should leave a view that bias is on the attack. The improvement on the attack will come from how well Puncheon adds to the situation. WE have stolen a real star of the future in Clyne, lots of polishing and training required but can't see anything beyond him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studentsaint Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 Watching Chelsea I think Clyne plays a lot like Cole. What a steal if he ends up anywhere as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Another good display from Clyne - what a signing he was and seems to be improving all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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