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For Crisakes get a grip

Faz

By Faz,
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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
Losing 6-1 away seems to be fine. If we'd lost like that to a rampant team way out of our league fair enough. We didn't. 4 goals were shocking defending, as those of us that know football expected.

 

I said to the lads and before the game that we were going to get a drubbing, so 3 or 4 nil was sort of expected.

 

For me it wasnt the result it was the way we played in the first half, defending we all know about (doesnt make it right) but even the midfield was clueless today. Better second half but surely Arsenal took the foot off the pedal.

 

I feel vindicated by Kelvins poor performance again though. Fox I have given a chance but he is poor defensively.

 

Ill write this off, but even as soneone usually positive I am worried, the next 2 games will define our season

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slickmick

slickmick

Posted
Posted
Pathetic.

 

Just look at the threads tonight.

 

Who can we blame. Who can we replace. Who's fault is it. Blah de bloody blah.

 

Get a grip.

 

Goodnight.

 

 

If nothing nice can be said then nothing should be said at all. If thats what you expect then there would be no posts after the game.

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SaintSteve

SaintSteve

Posted
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Losing 6-1 away seems to be fine. If we'd lost like that to a rampant team way out of our league fair enough. We didn't. 4 goals were shocking defending, as those of us that know football expected.

 

Yes, shocking defending by the TEAM; not the RB, LB or CBs alone. Nt back 4 could have dealt with Arsenal today if you give them acres of room in the midfield area.

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dvaughanwilliams

dvaughanwilliams

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Threads and comments about how the team can improve are perfectly reasonable. However, all the threads are witch hunts writing players off entirely.

 

This knee-jerk response by people who had unrealistic expectations for our prospects this year pushing the panic button won't help anyone. It will lead to a nervous atmosphere in the ground which will spread to the players.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Pathetic.

 

Just look at the threads tonight.

 

Who can we blame. Who can we replace. Who's fault is it. Blah de bloody blah.

 

Get a grip.

 

Goodnight.

 

Oh dear. Wondered how long till we had a thread like this. We lose 6-1, our fourth loss of the season and concede a shed load of goals and we aren't allowed to discuss what is wrong? You need to get a grip I am afraid.

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Faz

Faz

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Oh dear. Wondered how long till we had a thread like this. We lose 6-1, our fourth loss of the season and concede a shed load of goals and we aren't allowed to discuss what is wrong? You need to get a grip I am afraid.

 

Oh dear. You stand on the ledge if you want to, I'm staying inside in the warm.

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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted (edited)

Playing in front of 60,000 at the Emirates is surely intimidating enough, and we saw the reason why Theo and OX and playing there and not at SMS, and it showed the distance between our two sides.

 

Yesterdays sad (but not totally unexpected result) proves the point that some of us have made many times before .....in that the gap between the top end of the Championship and the Premier League is ENORMOUS.. and not just moving a couple of places further up the ladder.

 

..and as if I should have to say it again......if we turn around at Christmas in lower part / mid table, and said we'd lost at Man. City, and at Arsenal ..(and allowed one man in a poor MU side to steal the game from us ,)... no-one would raise a murmur.

 

The real test of the quality of this present side ....will be in the next four games ..not the last four..

Edited by david in sweden
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saint michael

saint michael

Posted
Posted

pointing out deficiencies doesn't necessary make you negative. Observing where we are weak and strong is needed to improve. I am positive but concerened, not that we have no points yet, but the team weaknesses will not suddenly imporve because we are playing so called lesser teams.....what did you make of the Wigan game?

 

we had better learn and learn quickly including our Nige or will face the enevitable

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saint michael

saint michael

Posted
Posted

pointing out deficiencies doesn't necessary make you negative. Observing where we are weak and strong is needed to improve. I am positive but concerened, not that we have no points yet, but the team weaknesses will not suddenly imporve because we are playing so called lesser teams.....what did you make of the Wigan game?

 

we had better learn and learn quickly including our Nige or will face the inevitable

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Lazlo78

Lazlo78

Posted
Posted

Desperatly grasping for a positive, at least we've had a wake-up call now instead of getting it somewhere after christmas like Blackpool did. This is real, opponents are good, our team has faults, but there are still 34 games to go and we have loads of opportunities to work with the current players, the formation etc. and strengthen in January.

 

Last time we were in the Premier League we made it a trademark to occasionally get hammered by the big teams but win the important games and survive. Have faith in this team - they are a bunch of winners and will do everything they can to bounce back.

 

COYS!

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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Posted

Being a fan is all about expectation - and balancing that against realism is always difficult - especially when in the last 2 seasons we have had such rapid progress and success...despite the knowledge of where we were, how difficult is is for the squad quality to keep pace with that progress, the massive jump between Championship and the better prem (champions league quality) sides etc, and played 4, lost 4 start no matter who against is never something we can ignore, espcially a 6-1 defeat where for teh most part we were simply outclassed.

 

But whilst it might be easy to find the cause, the lack of major defensive improvements etc, its far more difficult to deliver the solution than perhaps we as fans like to believe (IMHO) - We signed one new defender who has trained about 5 mins with the squad and young RB who has shown his potential - yes we were naive in those 4 games where greater experience may have seen us grab a couple of points and avoid the drubbing on Saturday, but naiviety is overcome with experience - and whilst w e might still be a light on quality at the back, experience will see that improve. Elsewhere, we have good options, if not CL or top 8 quality, certianly strong enough to compete going forward and to be obsessed with 'embarrassing' results is frankly your own ego problem - deal with it - If you want to support a club that is always going to boost your ego, go support a CL side... We've had such results befor and will do again - part of football.

 

Chances are we did not manage to seal deals for additional defensive quality above that which is already at the club, but the web warrior fans do seem to think such transfer negotiations are easier than i reality, esecially for a newly promoted side looking to build with a longer term vision. Yes, some will argue that this seadon is all about survival so whatever it takes, sign a few 'exprienced defenders' for that task, whatever there is nowt wrong with that approach - but it is not our approach - we have been told what our aproach is - so whether you agree or like it or not, that is what we are doing - some will accept it will mean its a more risky strategy short term, but has benefits long term, others will be champing at the bit with worry about what it means for our prospects this year... both perfectly fine - it takes all sorts. But, what I find a odd is that there are those whose ego's are so easily bruised, or who have never agreed with strategy the owners/chairman have followed, that there is a constant need to point out Fault, blame etc to undermine the leadership at every opportunity, despite the obvious radpid progress we have had during that time... just seems odd, and frankly a bit mental - or you have to assume other agendas are still boiling away under the surface.

 

IMHO, we have see we have enough potential to survive and do alright this season with this squad - impossible to predict whether we realise that potential or not, but for me that is the beauty of sport, if it was predictable where would teh fun be in that?

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John B

John B

Posted
Posted
Pathetic.

 

Just look at the threads tonight.

 

Who can we blame. Who can we replace. Who's fault is it. Blah de bloody blah.

 

Get a grip.

 

Goodnight.

 

I see that you are not interested in discussing SFC

 

I am and have done so for over fifty years.

 

I have never believed the ideaa that we would be playing in a larger stadium regularly without a massive investment of hundreds of millions.

 

However I was expecting the club to sign some decent PL type players but this does not seem to have happened and although I expected us to lose against Man U Man C and Arsenal I think we will struggle against most of the rest.

 

The PL is a much stronger league than when we were there last and the current squad is not as strong or experienced.

 

Although it was fantastic moving from League 1 to the PL in two years there are consequences in that most of the squad would need replacing starting with the GK and the Defence which has not fully happened

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted
I see that you are not interested in discussing SFC

 

I am and have done so for over fifty years.

 

I have never believed the ideaa that we would be playing in a larger stadium regularly without a massive investment of hundreds of millions.

 

However I was expecting the club to sign some decent PL type players but this does not seem to have happened and although I expected us to lose against Man U Man C and Arsenal I think we will struggle against most of the rest.

 

The PL is a much stronger league than when we were there last and the current squad is not as strong or experienced.

 

Although it was fantastic moving from League 1 to the PL in two years there are consequences in that most of the squad would need replacing starting with the GK and the Defence which has not fully happened

 

I dont think anyone would argue with that - I guess the differences in opinion are based on how possible it is to do that quickly, the realities of making deals, rather than our perception of them played out in the media/twitter etc, and our own personal belief in the strategy the club has adopted - going for younger players in general with potential to grow with the fruits of the academy? Ultimately I guess it depends on our attitudes; are we 'stay up at all costs' or 'believe the startegy is the best approach long term' - complicated by fact that you can also sit somewhere in the middle of that scale:scared:;)

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mulletsaint

mulletsaint

Posted
Posted
Being a fan is all about expectation - and balancing that against realism is always difficult - especially when in the last 2 seasons we have had such rapid progress and success...despite the knowledge of where we were, how difficult is is for the squad quality to keep pace with that progress, the massive jump between Championship and the better prem (champions league quality) sides etc, and played 4, lost 4 start no matter who against is never something we can ignore, espcially a 6-1 defeat where for teh most part we were simply outclassed.

 

But whilst it might be easy to find the cause, the lack of major defensive improvements etc, its far more difficult to deliver the solution than perhaps we as fans like to believe (IMHO) - We signed one new defender who has trained about 5 mins with the squad and young RB who has shown his potential - yes we were naive in those 4 games where greater experience may have seen us grab a couple of points and avoid the drubbing on Saturday, but naiviety is overcome with experience - and whilst w e might still be a light on quality at the back, experience will see that improve. Elsewhere, we have good options, if not CL or top 8 quality, certianly strong enough to compete going forward and to be obsessed with 'embarrassing' results is frankly your own ego problem - deal with it - If you want to support a club that is always going to boost your ego, go support a CL side... We've had such results befor and will do again - part of football.

 

Chances are we did not manage to seal deals for additional defensive quality above that which is already at the club, but the web warrior fans do seem to think such transfer negotiations are easier than i reality, esecially for a newly promoted side looking to build with a longer term vision. Yes, some will argue that this seadon is all about survival so whatever it takes, sign a few 'exprienced defenders' for that task, whatever there is nowt wrong with that approach - but it is not our approach - we have been told what our aproach is - so whether you agree or like it or not, that is what we are doing - some will accept it will mean its a more risky strategy short term, but has benefits long term, others will be champing at the bit with worry about what it means for our prospects this year... both perfectly fine - it takes all sorts. But, what I find a odd is that there are those whose ego's are so easily bruised, or who have never agreed with strategy the owners/chairman have followed, that there is a constant need to point out Fault, blame etc to undermine the leadership at every opportunity, despite the obvious radpid progress we have had during that time... just seems odd, and frankly a bit mental - or you have to assume other agendas are still boiling away under the surface.

 

IMHO, we have see we have enough potential to survive and do alright this season with this squad - impossible to predict whether we realise that potential or not, but for me that is the beauty of sport, if it was predictable where would teh fun be in that?

 

Great post FC. Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
I see that you are not interested in discussing SFC

 

I am and have done so for over fifty years.

 

I have never believed the ideaa that we would be playing in a larger stadium regularly without a massive investment of hundreds of millions.

 

However I was expecting the club to sign some decent PL type players but this does not seem to have happened and although I expected us to lose against Man U Man C and Arsenal I think we will struggle against most of the rest.

 

The PL is a much stronger league than when we were there last and the current squad is not as strong or experienced.

 

Although it was fantastic moving from League 1 to the PL in two years there are consequences in that most of the squad would need replacing starting with the GK and the Defence which has not fully happened

 

You're right, that Ramirez is absolute ****e and neither are Yoshida, Mayuka or Clyne anywhere near good enough to play in the top flight. In the case of Ramirez, Yoshida and Mayuka, this wasn't blatantly obvious to most observers after they had played the few minutes that they had and this sort of insight probably only comes to somebody who has been watching football for over fifty years.

 

But at least you expected us to lose against both Manc clubs and Arsenal. A lot of the others on here apparently expected us to win those games, judging by the number of threads discussing who the next manager might be.

 

The sensible position is that new players have not yet had the chance to integrate properly into the team. The new players brought in to make a difference, have been away on International duty and hadn't been here long anyway.

 

And I don't agree that the Premier division is stronger that it was when we were last here. The hierarchy at the summit has changed a little, but the teams below the top four or five are not better than before.

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mulletsaint

mulletsaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

My worry about the defense at this stage is less about the personnel and more about the coaching. If you look at Arsenal's defence it is the same players as last season but they are defending much better this time around. Most observers and 'experts' would say that this is down to new defensive coach Steve Bould. Having seen their disarray at times last season this would suggest that contrary to what some on here would have us believe, decent coaching can and does make a difference no matter the players. Now yes I am aware that Arsenal have a couple of experienced international players at the heart of their defence but you get my point. They also have a right back who was playing in League 1 just over a year ago. The fact is that our defence looked shaky at times last season and playing up a level is compounding this. Individually I don't think our defence is bad but I think we are lacking something in how they and the team are coached to defend. I'm not saying I want Adkins out but I think he needs to improve here. At times last season I felt it was as much about how the midfield defends as the back four and Saturday's performance would seem to bear this out. The promising thing here is that against Man U the midfield did their defensive jobs superbly on the whole.

 

There have been too many individual errors as well and this could be for a number of reasons but I'd suggest the pressure on the players this season has ramped up significantly and this is something they need to deal with ASAP.

 

I think we have the players to keep us up, even in the weaker area of defense, but they need some real hard work on the training pitch to tighten things up. One thing that will really lead to more mistakes will be pressure from the fanbase and a nervous atmosphere in the ground. Maybe the fact that we believe we belong at this level brings problems here. We're desperate to survive and relegation seems unthinkable. Fans of teams like Blackpool stick with their team no matter what when they're in the Prem because for them it's an adventure. I think we as fans need to look back on the dark days and our subsequent rise out of it and get behind the team no matter what. Relegation may put dent in our plans with players leaving but as long as we still have the financing and support of the Liebherr family there is no reason we can't bounce straight back like WH and achieve our long term goals.

Edited by mulletsaint
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del boy

del boy

Posted
Posted

Oh dear 6-1

 

...thats what I was thinking before the Man City game - but, oh we nearly came away with a win against the league champs!

 

And then we were 5 mins away from beating Ut!

 

It can't be all that bad

 

Another CB would've been nice in the summer - but do you know what...I think Nige probably knew that

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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted
My worry about the defense at this stage is less about the personnel and more about the coaching. If you look at Arsenal's defence it is the same players as last season but they are defending much better this time around. Most observers and 'experts' would say that this is down to new defensive coach Steve Bould. Having seen their disarray at times last season this would suggest that contrary to what some on here would have us believe, decent coaching can and does make a difference no matter the players. Now yes I am aware that Arsenal have a couple of experienced international players at the heart of their defence but you get my point. They also have a right back who was playing in League 1 just over a year ago. The fact is that our defence looked shaky at times last season and playing up a level is compounding this. Individually I don't think our defence is bad but I think we are lacking something in how they and the team are coached to defend. I'm not saying I want Adkins out but I think he needs to improve here. At times last season I felt it was as much about how the midfield defends as the back four and Saturday's performance would seem to bear this out. The promising thing here is that against Man U the midfield did their defensive jobs superbly on the whole.

 

There have been too many individual errors as well and this could be for a number of reasons but I'd suggest the pressure on the players this season has ramped up significantly and this is something they need to deal with ASAP.

 

I think we have the players to keep us up, even in the weaker area of defense, but they need some real hard work on the training pitch to tighten things up. One thing that will really lead to more mistakes will be pressure from the fanbase and a nervous atmosphere in the ground. Maybe the fact that we believe we belong at this level brings problems here. We're desperate to survive and relegation seems unthinkable. Fans of teams like Blackpool stick with their team no matter what when they're in the Prem because for them it's an adventure. I think we as fans need to look back on the dark days and our subsequent rise out of it and get behind the team no matter what. Relegation may put dent in our plans with players leaving but as long as we still have the financing and support of the Liebherr family there is no reason we can't bounce straight back like WH and achieve our long term goals.

 

I agree mostly, however one point I take umbridge with is implying that our fans won't stay behind the team. They did at Wigan and man utd whenever we went behind. And frankly, listening to the arsenal game, all I could hear was saints fans aside from the 6 cheers by arsenal fans... we out sang them. I think the fans will be fine. The simple truth is... we owe most of the squad and the staff everything. 3 years ago we were at the abyss, Saturday we were at the emirates. Its a journey together, we can voice our opinion sure, but the negative selection on here seem to be a small minority in the wider world. And that is something to take positives from. By negative few I do not mean those who question our defenders and kelvin. Unless we are winning it is of right to question performances.

 

I personally think the defends can hack it. I just think our tactics are wrong and I am waiting for Nigel to improve this aspect. I.e. Walcott's goal. The assisting arsenal player ran through our entire midi field without being followed. One pass, a shot, and a layoff and it was 6. Passer not pressed and runner not followed.... needs addressing. Our defenders couldn't follow every arsenal run, the full backs were always 2v1, and the midfield again did not press the passers. I really don't blame the defence. Also, kelvin needs to come out more. The near post goal he didn't close down at all and gave geranimo the entire goal to shoot at. His confidence is dropping and his performances are 2. I never thought he would be a top pre keeper but on form he can hold his own. So play up super kelv, we need u!

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Oh dear 6-1

 

...thats what I was thinking before the Man City game - but, oh we nearly came away with a win against the league champs!

 

And then we were 5 mins away from beating Ut!

 

It can't be all that bad

 

Another CB would've been nice in the summer - but do you know what...I think Nige probably knew that

 

Probably. Someone messed up somewhere in the club. Doubt it was Nige.

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